FIRE Mangini and Daboll NOW
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Come on! Dawson misses a FG every other millenium. He won so many games that we cannot say it's his fault.
Daboll must be fired on the spot!
Come on! Dawson misses a FG every other millenium. He won so many games that we cannot say it's his fault.
Daboll must be fired on the spot!
I agree. Firing Mangini right now is not the answer. But we need to get rid of Daboll. I am tired of seeing conservative offensive play calling in the second half when we have the lead. The time for that is late in the 4th. Daboll just doesn't have the chops to put together 4 quarters of an aggressive game plan. It is the same as last year. Games lost in the 2nd half.
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This is just a stupid knee jerk reaction thread.
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This is just a stupid knee jerk reaction thread.
This is just a stupid knee jerk reaction thread.
Yes it is... But not completely unfounded. This is the second week in a row that we played to lose.
Last week we should have made the call and took out JD... we didn't, we lost.
This week, we played to lose. We had a lead, and our game plan of run-run-throw-punt really took KC's defense for whirlwind didn't it. Romeo Crennel adjusted, we didn't.
We are 0-2. Not because we played the Pats and the Colts or Baltimore or Pitts... we are 0-2 against two teams that we should have beat (Mind you again, we were winning and failed to finish).
It was said, that Vrabel new the plays before they were even called. Are the execution issues from the players yes.. but the game plan was horrendous after the half.
Daboll should be on very thin ice right now from the weight of Holmgren if you know what I mean.
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This is just a stupid knee jerk reaction thread.
This is just a stupid knee jerk reaction thread.
I agree. It's not the OC's fault that you have no playmakers on offense. Would everyone rather he throw the ball downfield and have 6INT's, and lose by 20 instead of losing by 3?
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This is just a stupid knee jerk reaction thread.
I agree. It's not the OC's fault that you have no playmakers on offense. Would everyone rather he throw the ball downfield and have 6INT's, and lose by 20 instead of losing by 3?
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Mangini & Daboll are too completely different aspects of the team. While I favor taking a look at either giving Dabolls OC position an upgrade or more focus from talking heads like Holmgren, Mangini is fine. It isn't Mangini's fault that the players are making errors/penalties, missing field goals, throwing pick-6's, and fumbling.
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Vince Lombardi coaching this team would make no difference. THIS TEAM HAS NOT GOT THE TALENT TO BE COMPETITIVE NOW.
sheesh.....
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This thread is about excuses and sometimes there are good excuses but they're still just that.
I imagine that when the first professional football was played, the debate amongst losing teams began with the "is it bad coaching or is it bad execution?" debate. The answer is probably a little of both but not every loss has just one simple answer.
When you look at the Browns' roster now, the first thing you'll notice is more depth. Yes, Mangini cleaned house and Holmgren and Heckert have carried on with the task of upgrading the talent on this team. It's getting there. What you'll also find is that winning is learned just like anything else. One-point game in the fourth quarter with your butt cheeks clenched? You learn how to win in those situations.
You can gripe all you want about play-calling but you don't know what those plays were. All you know is that they ended up as a run or pass. You don't know what reads the QB is supposed to make and which ones he makes correctly. The honest truth is that Harrison has a problem putting the ball on the carpet and St. Clair and Womack stink. Neither of our starting wide receivers could make a play when given the opportunity. The ball got there. They couldn't complete the play. I don't know how you blame coaching when the guy was open and had the opportunity to succeed.
Did any coach draw up a game plan that consisted of our All-Pro LT holding or having trouble with the pass rush? Did the game plan include Alex Mack taking a bonehead unnecessary roughness call? The penalties are uncharacteristic and are as much on the offenders as they could possibly be on the coaches. Did he tell Jake "Hey, as you're falling down...why don't you just heave a throw into Ronde's hands...."? The OC DID have the stones to drop a 65-yard play action TD to Cribbs on short yardage. No one's giving him props for that.
Seneca Wallace was serviceable but he also served up a pick six that was beyond stupid. That was a three step drop with good coverage that he paused on. At that point, he should have thrown the ball away. He should have known that.
This team has lost to two teams by a total of five points. I don't care that it was Tampa and KC because, by many accounts, those teams are decidedly better this year than the door mats they were last year.
Can we please get off of Jerome Harrison's jock now?! You can't say he didn't get enough carries. He didn't produce.
Lastly, I am sick and damned tired of hearing all of this whining about "half-time adjustments". It is a buzz phrase that fans have latched onto thinking that some super-duper second half secret gets decoded in the locker room at half time. A typical half-time allows time for position meetings and about five minutes for coaches to go over the first half. Things you will NOT see come out of half-time are:
1) New and exciting plays that didn't exist before
2) wholesale changes to the schemes and personnel
3) new player skills that the opponent will be in awe of and caught totally off guard by
So can we please FRIGGIN DROP THE HALF TIME ADJUSTMENT CRAP?!?! PLAYERS MAKE PLAYS! The Browns got their offense the ball back twice in the last five minutes and they weren't able to execute.
I am not saying that Daboll shouldn't be under scutiny because his offense has whiffed two second halves in a row but this is no different than any other year. Players don't execute and he looks like an ass. Players execute the offense without penalties and turnovers and he looks like he's doing a good job. The average fan will criticize offensive play calling and defensive players proving that they don't understand as much as they think they do on the former and as much as they should on the latter.
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Vince Lombardi coaching this team would make no difference. THIS TEAM HAS NOT GOT THE TALENT TO BE COMPETITIVE NOW.
sheesh.....
Vince Lombardi coaching this team would make no difference. THIS TEAM HAS NOT GOT THE TALENT TO BE COMPETITIVE NOW.
sheesh.....
It cannot be competitive against the playoff contenders but we sure are good enough to beat Tampa Bay and Kansas and when one looks at the first half for both the games, It sure seems like it was not a tough thing to do.
we have enough talent to hang on to games and maybe win a few. But we have way too many intangibles that punish us and ultimately lead to our defeat.
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Cool post, Earl.
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your all gettin wacked
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This thread is about excuses and sometimes there are good excuses but they're still just that.
I imagine that when the first professional football was played, the debate amongst losing teams began with the "is it bad coaching or is it bad execution?" debate. The answer is probably a little of both but not every loss has just one simple answer.
When you look at the Browns' roster now, the first thing you'll notice is more depth. Yes, Mangini cleaned house and Holmgren and Heckert have carried on with the task of upgrading the talent on this team. It's getting there. What you'll also find is that winning is learned just like anything else. One-point game in the fourth quarter with your butt cheeks clenched? You learn how to win in those situations.
You can gripe all you want about play-calling but you don't know what those plays were. All you know is that they ended up as a run or pass. You don't know what reads the QB is supposed to make and which ones he makes correctly. The honest truth is that Harrison has a problem putting the ball on the carpet and St. Clair and Womack stink. Neither of our starting wide receivers could make a play when given the opportunity. The ball got there. They couldn't complete the play. I don't know how you blame coaching when the guy was open and had the opportunity to succeed.
Did any coach draw up a game plan that consisted of our All-Pro LT holding or having trouble with the pass rush? Did the game plan include Alex Mack taking a bonehead unnecessary roughness call? The penalties are uncharacteristic and are as much on the offenders as they could possibly be on the coaches. Did he tell Jake "Hey, as you're falling down...why don't you just heave a throw into Ronde's hands...."? The OC DID have the stones to drop a 65-yard play action TD to Cribbs on short yardage. No one's giving him props for that.
Seneca Wallace was serviceable but he also served up a pick six that was beyond stupid. That was a three step drop with good coverage that he paused on. At that point, he should have thrown the ball away. He should have known that.
This team has lost to two teams by a total of five points. I don't care that it was Tampa and KC because, by many accounts, those teams are decidedly better this year than the door mats they were last year.
Can we please get off of Jerome Harrison's jock now?! You can't say he didn't get enough carries. He didn't produce.
Lastly, I am sick and damned tired of hearing all of this whining about "half-time adjustments". It is a buzz phrase that fans have latched onto thinking that some super-duper second half secret gets decoded in the locker room at half time. A typical half-time allows time for position meetings and about five minutes for coaches to go over the first half. Things you will NOT see come out of half-time are:
1) New and exciting plays that didn't exist before
2) wholesale changes to the schemes and personnel
3) new player skills that the opponent will be in awe of and caught totally off guard by
So can we please FRIGGIN DROP THE HALF TIME ADJUSTMENT CRAP?!?! PLAYERS MAKE PLAYS! The Browns got their offense the ball back twice in the last five minutes and they weren't able to execute.
I am not saying that Daboll shouldn't be under scutiny because his offense has whiffed two second halves in a row but this is no different than any other year. Players don't execute and he looks like an ass. Players execute the offense without penalties and turnovers and he looks like he's doing a good job. The average fan will criticize offensive play calling and defensive players proving that they don't understand as much as they think they do on the former and as much as they should on the latter.
This thread is about excuses and sometimes there are good excuses but they're still just that.
I imagine that when the first professional football was played, the debate amongst losing teams began with the "is it bad coaching or is it bad execution?" debate. The answer is probably a little of both but not every loss has just one simple answer.
When you look at the Browns' roster now, the first thing you'll notice is more depth. Yes, Mangini cleaned house and Holmgren and Heckert have carried on with the task of upgrading the talent on this team. It's getting there. What you'll also find is that winning is learned just like anything else. One-point game in the fourth quarter with your butt cheeks clenched? You learn how to win in those situations.
You can gripe all you want about play-calling but you don't know what those plays were. All you know is that they ended up as a run or pass. You don't know what reads the QB is supposed to make and which ones he makes correctly. The honest truth is that Harrison has a problem putting the ball on the carpet and St. Clair and Womack stink. Neither of our starting wide receivers could make a play when given the opportunity. The ball got there. They couldn't complete the play. I don't know how you blame coaching when the guy was open and had the opportunity to succeed.
Did any coach draw up a game plan that consisted of our All-Pro LT holding or having trouble with the pass rush? Did the game plan include Alex Mack taking a bonehead unnecessary roughness call? The penalties are uncharacteristic and are as much on the offenders as they could possibly be on the coaches. Did he tell Jake "Hey, as you're falling down...why don't you just heave a throw into Ronde's hands...."? The OC DID have the stones to drop a 65-yard play action TD to Cribbs on short yardage. No one's giving him props for that.
Seneca Wallace was serviceable but he also served up a pick six that was beyond stupid. That was a three step drop with good coverage that he paused on. At that point, he should have thrown the ball away. He should have known that.
This team has lost to two teams by a total of five points. I don't care that it was Tampa and KC because, by many accounts, those teams are decidedly better this year than the door mats they were last year.
Can we please get off of Jerome Harrison's jock now?! You can't say he didn't get enough carries. He didn't produce.
Lastly, I am sick and damned tired of hearing all of this whining about "half-time adjustments". It is a buzz phrase that fans have latched onto thinking that some super-duper second half secret gets decoded in the locker room at half time. A typical half-time allows time for position meetings and about five minutes for coaches to go over the first half. Things you will NOT see come out of half-time are:
1) New and exciting plays that didn't exist before
2) wholesale changes to the schemes and personnel
3) new player skills that the opponent will be in awe of and caught totally off guard by
So can we please FRIGGIN DROP THE HALF TIME ADJUSTMENT CRAP?!?! PLAYERS MAKE PLAYS! The Browns got their offense the ball back twice in the last five minutes and they weren't able to execute.
I am not saying that Daboll shouldn't be under scutiny because his offense has whiffed two second halves in a row but this is no different than any other year. Players don't execute and he looks like an ass. Players execute the offense without penalties and turnovers and he looks like he's doing a good job. The average fan will criticize offensive play calling and defensive players proving that they don't understand as much as they think they do on the former and as much as they should on the latter.
Hell of a post, but I disagree about the halftime adjustment part.
Halftime adjustments are a part of football. I've been a part of many games that have been determined because of an adjustment we made in the locker room before the second half. But, those adjustments were made because we were getting completely outmatched on the field. I highly doubt that Mangini and Co. would have made any severe changes in a game where we weren't being manhandled in the least.
The only change I saw was really that of subbing in Harrison for Hillis. It seemed like the only times Hillis came in during the second half was to block on passing plays. A strategy that I don't get at all, but hey, hindsight is 20/20.
There's a quote by Bobby Bowden that says something along the lines of "a good team knows how to win when they have the lead and a great team knows how to win when they're down in the fourth." I think that applies to us very much so. We need to first learn how to keep the lead before we can focus on fourth quarter comebacks. Our team needs to learn how to play to win, right now we're just playing not to lose.
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This thread is about excuses and sometimes there are good excuses but they're still just that.
I imagine that when the first professional football was played, the debate amongst losing teams began with the "is it bad coaching or is it bad execution?" debate. The answer is probably a little of both but not every loss has just one simple answer.
When you look at the Browns' roster now, the first thing you'll notice is more depth. Yes, Mangini cleaned house and Holmgren and Heckert have carried on with the task of upgrading the talent on this team. It's getting there. What you'll also find is that winning is learned just like anything else. One-point game in the fourth quarter with your butt cheeks clenched? You learn how to win in those situations.
You can gripe all you want about play-calling but you don't know what those plays were. All you know is that they ended up as a run or pass. You don't know what reads the QB is supposed to make and which ones he makes correctly. The honest truth is that Harrison has a problem putting the ball on the carpet and St. Clair and Womack stink. Neither of our starting wide receivers could make a play when given the opportunity. The ball got there. They couldn't complete the play. I don't know how you blame coaching when the guy was open and had the opportunity to succeed.
Did any coach draw up a game plan that consisted of our All-Pro LT holding or having trouble with the pass rush? Did the game plan include Alex Mack taking a bonehead unnecessary roughness call? The penalties are uncharacteristic and are as much on the offenders as they could possibly be on the coaches. Did he tell Jake "Hey, as you're falling down...why don't you just heave a throw into Ronde's hands...."? The OC DID have the stones to drop a 65-yard play action TD to Cribbs on short yardage. No one's giving him props for that.
Seneca Wallace was serviceable but he also served up a pick six that was beyond stupid. That was a three step drop with good coverage that he paused on. At that point, he should have thrown the ball away. He should have known that.
This team has lost to two teams by a total of five points. I don't care that it was Tampa and KC because, by many accounts, those teams are decidedly better this year than the door mats they were last year.
Can we please get off of Jerome Harrison's jock now?! You can't say he didn't get enough carries. He didn't produce.
Lastly, I am sick and damned tired of hearing all of this whining about "half-time adjustments". It is a buzz phrase that fans have latched onto thinking that some super-duper second half secret gets decoded in the locker room at half time. A typical half-time allows time for position meetings and about five minutes for coaches to go over the first half. Things you will NOT see come out of half-time are:
1) New and exciting plays that didn't exist before
2) wholesale changes to the schemes and personnel
3) new player skills that the opponent will be in awe of and caught totally off guard by
So can we please FRIGGIN DROP THE HALF TIME ADJUSTMENT CRAP?!?! PLAYERS MAKE PLAYS! The Browns got their offense the ball back twice in the last five minutes and they weren't able to execute.
I am not saying that Daboll shouldn't be under scutiny because his offense has whiffed two second halves in a row but this is no different than any other year. Players don't execute and he looks like an ass. Players execute the offense without penalties and turnovers and he looks like he's doing a good job. The average fan will criticize offensive play calling and defensive players proving that they don't understand as much as they think they do on the former and as much as they should on the latter.
Hell of a post, but I disagree about the halftime adjustment part.
Halftime adjustments are a part of football. I've been a part of many games that have been determined because of an adjustment we made in the locker room before the second half. But, those adjustments were made because we were getting completely outmatched on the field. I highly doubt that Mangini and Co. would have made any severe changes in a game where we weren't being manhandled in the least.
The only change I saw was really that of subbing in Harrison for Hillis. It seemed like the only times Hillis came in during the second half was to block on passing plays. A strategy that I don't get at all, but hey, hindsight is 20/20.
There's a quote by Bobby Bowden that says something along the lines of "a good team knows how to win when they have the lead and a great team knows how to win when they're down in the fourth." I think that applies to us very much so. We need to first learn how to keep the lead before we can focus on fourth quarter comebacks. Our team needs to learn how to play to win, right now we're just playing not to lose.
Hell of a post, but I disagree about the halftime adjustment part.
Halftime adjustments are a part of football. I've been a part of many games that have been determined because of an adjustment we made in the locker room before the second half. But, those adjustments were made because we were getting completely outmatched on the field. I highly doubt that Mangini and Co. would have made any severe changes in a game where we weren't being manhandled in the least.
I didn't mean to say that there are NO adjustments to be made at half. You can change up blocking schemes to help a struggling player. You can decide to switch Hillis for Harrison. You can decide to change your tendency, mix up coverages, stunt the line or blitz more. What I am saying is that this is an over-rated part of the game. You don't have that much time and what I am seeing in the second half isn't (IMHO) because of adjustments or lack thereof. I'm seeing a lot of offensive guys not executing. Other than that, we'll have to agree to disagree. Respectfully, of course.
There's a quote by Bobby Bowden that says something along the lines of "a good team knows how to win when they have the lead and a great team knows how to win when they're down in the fourth." I think that applies to us very much so. We need to first learn how to keep the lead before we can focus on fourth quarter comebacks. Our team needs to learn how to play to win, right now we're just playing not to lose.
Very true...but I think that's a players thing as well as a coaches thing....
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Hell of a post, but I disagree about the halftime adjustment part.
Halftime adjustments are a part of football. I've been a part of many games that have been determined because of an adjustment we made in the locker room before the second half. But, those adjustments were made because we were getting completely outmatched on the field. I highly doubt that Mangini and Co. would have made any severe changes in a game where we weren't being manhandled in the least.
I didn't mean to say that there are NO adjustments to be made at half. You can change up blocking schemes to help a struggling player. You can decide to switch Hillis for Harrison. You can decide to change your tendency, mix up coverages, stunt the line or blitz more. What I am saying is that this is an over-rated part of the game. You don't have that much time and what I am seeing in the second half isn't (IMHO) because of adjustments or lack thereof. I'm seeing a lot of offensive guys not executing. Other than that, we'll have to agree to disagree. Respectfully, of course.
There's a quote by Bobby Bowden that says something along the lines of "a good team knows how to win when they have the lead and a great team knows how to win when they're down in the fourth." I think that applies to us very much so. We need to first learn how to keep the lead before we can focus on fourth quarter comebacks. Our team needs to learn how to play to win, right now we're just playing not to lose.
Very true...but I think that's a players thing as well as a coaches thing....
I didn't mean to say that there are NO adjustments to be made at half. You can change up blocking schemes to help a struggling player. You can decide to switch Hillis for Harrison. You can decide to change your tendency, mix up coverages, stunt the line or blitz more. What I am saying is that this is an over-rated part of the game. You don't have that much time and what I am seeing in the second half isn't (IMHO) because of adjustments or lack thereof. I'm seeing a lot of offensive guys not executing. Other than that, we'll have to agree to disagree. Respectfully, of course.
I understand what you're saying. There's rarely, if ever, a magic "fix-all" formula that you can implement in 15 minutes. My senior year in high school, we were the last place team in our region, playing the first place team in the state and we won because of a halftime adjustment. We were down three scores, and were getting killed on the ground, and all we did was switch from our base 4-3 to a 46 defense. Like Coach Boone says in "Remember the Titans", "we blitzed all night.
Sometimes, that's all it takes. That's the "fix-all" that we needed, in that particular situation. We didn't need to draw up fancy plays and tricky zone blitz schemes. We simply moved both OLBs to the strong side, and shifted over our defensive line. It took about 5 seconds to implement it, and it won us the game. But that's a rare occasion.
Very true...but I think that's a players thing as well as a coaches thing....
I agree, it's not all on the coaches. You have to get up and play with the same intensity in the second half as you did in the first half. In my opinion, halftime is the hardest thing to overcome for a player. It's a 15-20 minute lull in action, and your body cools down tremendously in that time. It's very hard to operate on the same level of intensity after a break like that. But that's what you have to do if you want to win. Some players don't sit during halftime, some players jog in place or ride a stationary bike. Personally, I hopped in place and stretched the entire time.
And if the players are ready to go in the second half, the coaches better damn well be ready to.
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Vince Lombardi coaching this team would make no difference. THIS TEAM HAS NOT GOT THE TALENT TO BE COMPETITIVE NOW.
sheesh.....
Vince Lombardi coaching this team would make no difference. THIS TEAM HAS NOT GOT THE TALENT TO BE COMPETITIVE NOW.
sheesh.....
Actually, it might. I believe to a point that great coaching can and does make a great deal of difference notwithstanding the talent....but it does help to have some talent.
Our past GMs have left this team with a dearth of talent.
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Mangini & Daboll are too completely different aspects of the team. While I favor taking a look at either giving Dabolls OC position an upgrade or more focus from talking heads like Holmgren, Mangini is fine. It isn't Mangini's fault that the players are making errors/penalties, missing field goals, throwing pick-6's, and fumbling.
Mangini & Daboll are too completely different aspects of the team. While I favor taking a look at either giving Dabolls OC position an upgrade or more focus from talking heads like Holmgren, Mangini is fine. It isn't Mangini's fault that the players are making errors/penalties, missing field goals, throwing pick-6's, and fumbling.
Last year ALL season we were so much better when it came to penalties and execution then we were the year before. That is due to good coaching or at least better coaching than we had under Crennel. During the last two years Mangini has turned over our roster brought a much better attitude and more talent to the team. ASnd that is not easy. It is tough to get rid of the bad apples on the team, and end up with the same level of talent or more talent. But Mangini found Roth, and Evan Moore our Qb's are better, our defense is better. Watch Hayden and Ward and tell me honestly that we aren't better. Was the draft perfect? Hell no! But we did upgrade our team and we will continue to do so. At least based on past performance I would have to assume that. Yes we should have won at least won if not both of those games, but Delhomme screwed up, the play calling was bad. And we all know Daboll is bad. But don't forget that Holgren could have let him go and didn't. With three new qb's coming in it would have been the perfect time to do it. This coming draft I see us focusing on our aging dline a better running back and a great wide receiver.
At this point the only thing I am willing to hang on Mangini its that Daboll is still coaching for us. I for one am staying the course at I think we all should back up our coach and our team at least for a little longer. Just because we have really tough games coming up doesn't mean we will lose them. I look for a good game against the Bengals, and why cant we hang with the Saints with our 3-4 d like the 49ers did last night? I am not saying that we will but we might. We are only 2 GAMES IN!
For me Daboll should have gone and we need another year to add more talent. Look at our talent compared to so many other teams. We are lacking in many areas. But we are getting better. I believed it before the season and I still do even if I am pissed that we lost the first two.
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Mangini & Daboll are too completely different aspects of the team. While I favor taking a look at either giving Dabolls OC position an upgrade or more focus from talking heads like Holmgren, Mangini is fine. It isn't Mangini's fault that the players are making errors/penalties, missing field goals, throwing pick-6's, and fumbling.
Last year ALL season we were so much better when it came to penalties and execution then we were the year before. That is due to good coaching or at least better coaching than we had under Crennel. During the last two years Mangini has turned over our roster brought a much better attitude and more talent to the team. ASnd that is not easy. It is tough to get rid of the bad apples on the team, and end up with the same level of talent or more talent. But Mangini found Roth, and Evan Moore our Qb's are better, our defense is better. Watch Hayden and Ward and tell me honestly that we aren't better. Was the draft perfect? Hell no! But we did upgrade our team and we will continue to do so. At least based on past performance I would have to assume that. Yes we should have won at least won if not both of those games, but Delhomme screwed up, the play calling was bad. And we all know Daboll is bad. But don't forget that Holgren could have let him go and didn't. With three new qb's coming in it would have been the perfect time to do it. This coming draft I see us focusing on our aging dline a better running back and a great wide receiver.
At this point the only thing I am willing to hang on Mangini its that Daboll is still coaching for us. I for one am staying the course at I think we all should back up our coach and our team at least for a little longer. Just because we have really tough games coming up doesn't mean we will lose them. I look for a good game against the Bengals, and why cant we hang with the Saints with our 3-4 d like the 49ers did last night? I am not saying that we will but we might. We are only 2 GAMES IN!
For me Daboll should have gone and we need another year to add more talent. Look at our talent compared to so many other teams. We are lacking in many areas. But we are getting better. I believed it before the season and I still do even if I am pissed that we lost the first two.
At this point the only thing I am willing to hang on Mangini its that Daboll is still coaching for us. I for one am staying the course at I think we all should back up our coach and our team at least for a little longer. Just because we have really tough games coming up doesn't mean we will lose them. I look for a good game against the Bengals, and why cant we hang with the Saints with our 3-4 d like the 49ers did last night? I am not saying that we will but we might. We are only 2 GAMES IN!
For me Daboll should have gone and we need another year to add more talent. Look at our talent compared to so many other teams. We are lacking in many areas. But we are getting better. I believed it before the season and I still do even if I am pissed that we lost the first two.
The only problem here B57 is that you can't realistically get rid of your OC this early in the season. Mike Holmgren gave Daboll a seal of approval (or at least a light acknowledgment) and I really can't recall a team that fired an OC early that wound up being anything but confused on offense the rest of the year. Last year we saw Buffalo fire theirs in training camp and Washington basically castrate theirs early on. Neither of those turned into offensive juggernauts nor were they demonstrably better off.
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Vince Lombardi coaching this team would make no difference. THIS TEAM HAS NOT GOT THE TALENT TO BE COMPETITIVE NOW.
sheesh.....
Actually, it might. I believe to a point that great coaching can and does make a great deal of difference notwithstanding the talent....but it does help to have some talent.
Our past GMs have left this team with a dearth of talent.
Actually, it might. I believe to a point that great coaching can and does make a great deal of difference notwithstanding the talent....but it does help to have some talent.
Our past GMs have left this team with a dearth of talent.
I kind of agree.
I think coaching in any sport is over rated from a winning standpoint.
I think their impact comes in helping to prevent losses....if that makes any sense.
By and large the talent the coach has dictates 95% of the outcome as a whole, but that last 5% can impact many games.
Baseball...the manager knowing hitting/pitching matchups
Basketball...the coach knowing end game management
Hockey....the coach knowing various line adjustments to create optimum scoring lines and optimum defensive lines.
Football...adjusting the gameplan as the other team adjusts theirs. The problem with football is you have to adjust early enough.....while a fast moving game from a playing standpoint, it is a slow moving game from a adjustment standpoint. You need time to see if the adjustments are working or not.
Just a rant here....I think hockey requires the most adjustments by a coach from beginning to end....it is a low scoring game with a fast pace from beginning to end. Two or three goals is huge, and can happen in a instant.....baseball is next, but 3 run homers can equal things pretty fast....there are no 3 point goals in hockey.....it's one goal at a time, and no minor points like in football with field goals.
basketball....fouling is a strategy at end game. I don't know of any other game where fouling is a planned option at the end of a game.
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At this point the only thing I am willing to hang on Mangini its that Daboll is still coaching for us. I for one am staying the course at I think we all should back up our coach and our team at least for a little longer. Just because we have really tough games coming up doesn't mean we will lose them. I look for a good game against the Bengals, and why cant we hang with the Saints with our 3-4 d like the 49ers did last night? I am not saying that we will but we might. We are only 2 GAMES IN!
For me Daboll should have gone and we need another year to add more talent. Look at our talent compared to so many other teams. We are lacking in many areas. But we are getting better. I believed it before the season and I still do even if I am pissed that we lost the first two.
The only problem here B57 is that you can't realistically get rid of your OC this early in the season. Mike Holmgren gave Daboll a seal of approval (or at least a light acknowledgment) and I really can't recall a team that fired an OC early that wound up being anything but confused on offense the rest of the year. Last year we saw Buffalo fire theirs in training camp and Washington basically castrate theirs early on. Neither of those turned into offensive juggernauts nor were they demonstrably better off.
The only problem here B57 is that you can't realistically get rid of your OC this early in the season. Mike Holmgren gave Daboll a seal of approval (or at least a light acknowledgment) and I really can't recall a team that fired an OC early that wound up being anything but confused on offense the rest of the year. Last year we saw Buffalo fire theirs in training camp and Washington basically castrate theirs early on. Neither of those turned into offensive juggernauts nor were they demonstrably better off.
I didn't suggest Daboll should be fired now nor do I want him to be fired during the season. I do however blame Holmgren and Mangini for not firing him in the offseason. Maybe he will still improve. I still say our level of talent is the main problem. Its amazing how a Wes Welker and a Tom Brady and a Randy Moss can make a team look great no matter what offensive coordinator they seem to put in place. We have Delhomme, Massoqiou and Robiske. Doesnt really scream watch out for the awesome plays we are about to run.
And for all of those people complaining about Harrison. He caught the league by suprise at the end of last year. They now have plenty of tape on him now. And we still have no deep threat to keep defenses from putting 9 or ten in the box.
And love him or hate him Delhomme had Steve Smith in Carolina and here he has???????????
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The only problem here B57 is that you can't realistically get rid of your OC this early in the season. Mike Holmgren gave Daboll a seal of approval (or at least a light acknowledgment) and I really can't recall a team that fired an OC early that wound up being anything but confused on offense the rest of the year. Last year we saw Buffalo fire theirs in training camp and Washington basically castrate theirs early on. Neither of those turned into offensive juggernauts nor were they demonstrably better off.
I didn't suggest Daboll should be fired now nor do I want him to be fired during the season. I do however blame Holmgren and Mangini for not firing him in the offseason. Maybe he will still improve. I still say our level of talent is the main problem. Its amazing how a Wes Welker and a Tom Brady and a Randy Moss can make a team look great no matter what offensive coordinator they seem to put in place. We have Delhomme, Massoqiou and Robiske. Doesnt really scream watch out for the awesome plays we are about to run.
And for all of those people complaining about Harrison. He caught the league by suprise at the end of last year. They now have plenty of tape on him now. And we still have no deep threat to keep defenses from putting 9 or ten in the box.
And love him or hate him Delhomme had Steve Smith in Carolina and here he has???????????
I didn't suggest Daboll should be fired now nor do I want him to be fired during the season. I do however blame Holmgren and Mangini for not firing him in the offseason. Maybe he will still improve. I still say our level of talent is the main problem. Its amazing how a Wes Welker and a Tom Brady and a Randy Moss can make a team look great no matter what offensive coordinator they seem to put in place. We have Delhomme, Massoqiou and Robiske. Doesnt really scream watch out for the awesome plays we are about to run.
And for all of those people complaining about Harrison. He caught the league by suprise at the end of last year. They now have plenty of tape on him now. And we still have no deep threat to keep defenses from putting 9 or ten in the box.
And love him or hate him Delhomme had Steve Smith in Carolina and here he has???????????
I don't disagree. I would point out though that we aren't after the "Delhomme-of-old". We want a "Delhomme-better-than-the-two-average-clowns-who-cost-us-games-last-year".
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