Head-to-Head Hits & New Rule Discussion
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No, our players could have been hit harder and we would have not mentioned a thing if it had been legal....which...as we've learned today definitively...it was NOT. Steeler fans just need to get used to the idea that James Harrison made an illegal hit and conducts himself in a way that will likely result in more illegal hits. I won't sit here and tell you that there aren't grey areas or that Meriweather's hit wasn't more egregious but that isn't the point.
Defending your player? Why? Because he wears a Steelers uniform? What if he comes out and says "Yeah, I want to decapitate everyone on the field!"? I won't defend a Browns' player for blatantly breaking a rule that potentially results in a serious injury...and if he mouths off about it? You can bet your ass I won't be defending him.
Defend yourself and your family. Don't defend James Harrison or Ben or Hines. You don't speak for them and they don't speak for you.
What exactly did you want Harrison to do? Did you want him to hold back, let Massaquoi catch the ball, and then bring him down gently? Harrison had an opportunity to dislodge the ball from the receiver and force an incomplete pass. If Massaquoi didn't crouch down at the last second, or if McCoy didn't throw the ball behind Massaquoi, none of this would have happened. It would have been a hard hit to Massaquoi's chest, right where Harrison was aiming for before Massaquoi lowered his body. McCoy had no business floating the ball over the middle to be quite honest. That was a recipe for disaster, especially against a defense that plays all over the field and is as fast as Pittsburgh's.
Don't tell me what the hell to do either. I am not out there starting fights in the stands and talking shit to fans over football games. That's not my thing. Arguing on a message board while watching a baseball game is not hurting anyone.
What exactly did you want Harrison to do? Did you want him to hold back, let Massaquoi catch the ball, and then bring him down gently? Harrison had an opportunity to dislodge the ball from the receiver and force an incomplete pass. If Massaquoi didn't crouch down at the last second, or if McCoy didn't throw the ball behind Massaquoi, none of this would have happened. It would have been a hard hit to Massaquoi's chest, right where Harrison was aiming for before Massaquoi lowered his body. McCoy had no business floating the ball over the middle to be quite honest. That was a recipe for disaster, especially against a defense that plays all over the field and is as fast as Pittsburgh's.
Don't tell me what the hell to do either. I am not out there starting fights in the stands and talking shit to fans over football games. That's not my thing. Arguing on a message board while watching a baseball game is not hurting anyone.
1. Spare me the separate the receiver from the ball argument. Been there. Done that. See TJ Ward. I agree it's his job.
2. Don't give me the "crouching Massaquoi" crap. James Harrison left his feet and launched with the crown of his helmet into his neck area. He wasn't aiming for his gut.
3. McCoy and any other QB makes that throw. It wasn't behind the receiver at all. Massaquoi gets paid to go over the middle like Hines Ward does.
You're blindly defending your player for no other reason than he's a Steeler. If he was on some other team you wouldn't go to these lengths to defend him when the video evidence and the league feels that he's hit someone illegally.
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All of those opposed to the fine of 75k, I have a question for you.
Can Harrison make an open field tackle?
I dont think he knows how to tackle and his playing days are going to be numbered unless he changes his technique.
We just might start seeing a better game acrossed the board with this firm stand on cheapshots from the league.
This is supposed to be a sport of professional athletes, and some of these goones have made bank on just being strong and not for being good football players.
So you can continue bitchin and whining, but in the end we will see better played defenses acrossed the board.
All of those opposed to the fine of 75k, I have a question for you.
Can Harrison make an open field tackle?
I dont think he knows how to tackle and his playing days are going to be numbered unless he changes his technique.
We just might start seeing a better game acrossed the board with this firm stand on cheapshots from the league.
This is supposed to be a sport of professional athletes, and some of these goones have made bank on just being strong and not for being good football players.
So you can continue bitchin and whining, but in the end we will see better played defenses acrossed the board.
He made the team playing special teams. Harrison is one of the best form tacklers in the league. His fudamentals are as good as they can get. Don't let his hard hits trick you into thinking his technique isn't there. The probable is form tackles don't knock the ball loose unless you are hitting the ball carrier straight on. If the ball carrier has his back turned you won't even touch the ball attempted a form tackle.
This vid stands as proof form tackles are by far the best way to go when a defender is facing the ball carrier.
"So you can continue bitchin and whining, but in the end we will see better played defenses acrossed the board."
?? It's you people whining over Harrison's hit (the same hit your linebacker and RB say was clean and just part of the game - but you surely no more than NFL players in reguards to how to play the game
) What the hell is that part about a better defense? "Hatred is gained as much by good works as by evil" - Niccolo Machiavelli "Expectation is the root of all heartache." - William Shakespeare "In time we hate that which we often fear. " - William Shakespeare "I DO ROIDS ... and GIVE HEAD" - ATENEARS http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=16312 http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/06166/698372-66.stm Friday said, "posters on Internet message boards hide behind their keyboards and write things they would never have the courage to say aloud in public. He said posters who write tasteless messages use football and the rivalries between teams as a way of getting out their aggression in a non-violent manner." Predicted 2010 Steelers record from this board: 7-9; 6-10; 8-8; 9-7; 10-6 -
@king-ghoolie-lives said:
He had very little to do with either Super Bowl folly. For the most part he gave two average performances and really the Steelers D got manhandled by both the Cardinals and Seahawks.Harrison is too small to really be any kind of force in the NFL. He relies on dirty hits to give him an edge and the NFL supports what I say because they not only fined him, BUT earmarked him, just as I have, as a player who cannot accomplish much without the dirty hit.
That is indeed what the NFL said when they announced his fine was larger because he does this all the time.
Those are just the facts.
He is an average player who uses illegal plays to make it appear that he is good. Really, take away the smoke and mirrors, and he blows.
"He had very little to do with either Super Bowl folly." He actually had the longest play in Super Bowl history that swung the score by 14 points. He also drew two holding penalties.
Shuan Alexander - league MVP - was held under 100 rushing yards and no tds.
Boldin had 1 catch the first half.
Fitzgerald didn't get his first catch until the 4th quarter.
The Cards were held to 33 yards rushing on the game.
3/8 on 3rd downs
Harrison has been voted all-pro in every season he has started. He also was named NFL Defensive MVP in 08.
The NFL didn't say he makes hits like that all the time. He was fined ealier in the season for a half sack he got by sacking Vince Young. He got flipped over the other defender tackling him, but somehow they fined Harrison for it.
This obviously comes as a surprise to you but you can't just makes things up and say they are fact.
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Spearing should be and is illegal. It been that way since the 70's. I'm sorry to hear of your injury.
I don't need a Steeler fans opinion, I have the support of players opinions around the league. These players are career athletes. They are also college educated, full grown men. I believe they can better make decisons reguarding their health and safety better than Goodell can. Players know their bodies and have a lot of authority when it comes to others making decisons reguarding them.
No. Dr. Cantu is the one advising commissioner Goodell (at least he was last fall) as well as some other experts that are colleagues of mine. Trust me, the commissioner has the best college educated minds in the business telling him what's best for the players. James Harrison himself showed us his knowledge on closed head injuries with his postgame quotes. Who are you going to trust? Dr. Robert Cantu who is a professor of neurosurgery at the Brigham or James "He was 'asleep' so it's all good" Harrison?
Edit: The NFL has appointed two new doctors to head it's official panel on concussions. http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/17/sports/17concussions.html
No. Dr. Cantu is the one advising commissioner Goodell (at least he was last fall) as well as some other experts that are colleagues of mine. Trust me, the commissioner has the best college educated minds in the business telling him what's best for the players. James Harrison himself showed us his knowledge on closed head injuries with his postgame quotes. Who are you going to trust? Dr. Robert Cantu who is a professor of neurosurgery at the Brigham or James "He was 'asleep' so it's all good" Harrison?
Edit: The NFL has appointed two new doctors to head it's official panel on concussions. http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/17/sports/17concussions.html
Since when does Goodell or Dr. Cantu get the right to tell these players what is best for their bodies?
The players don't want to be told wants best for them by a man most probably haven't spoken to before. (Whether that be Goodell or a doctor)
When a politician ignores what his constitiuents say is best and just do whatever the hell he feels like he gets voted out. Goodell is supposed to represent his players, not just say he knows what's best and they have to do what he says.
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All of those opposed to the fine of 75k, I have a question for you.
Can Harrison make an open field tackle?
I dont think he knows how to tackle and his playing days are going to be numbered unless he changes his technique.
We just might start seeing a better game acrossed the board with this firm stand on cheapshots from the league.
This is supposed to be a sport of professional athletes, and some of these goones have made bank on just being strong and not for being good football players.
So you can continue bitchin and whining, but in the end we will see better played defenses acrossed the board.
He made the team playing special teams. Harrison is one of the best form tacklers in the league. His fudamentals are as good as they can get. Don't let his hard hits trick you into thinking his technique isn't there. The probable is form tackles don't knock the ball loose unless you are hitting the ball carrier straight on. If the ball carrier has his back turned you won't even touch the ball attempted a form tackle.
This vid stands as proof form tackles are by far the best way to go when a defender is facing the ball carrier.
"So you can continue bitchin and whining, but in the end we will see better played defenses acrossed the board."
?? It's you people whining over Harrison's hit (the same hit your linebacker and RB say was clean and just part of the game - but you surely no more than NFL players in reguards to how to play the game
) What the hell is that part about a better defense? He made the team playing special teams. Harrison is one of the best form tacklers in the league. His fudamentals are as good as they can get. Don't let his hard hits trick you into thinking his technique isn't there. The problem is form tackles don't knock the ball loose unless you are hitting the ball carrier straight on. If the ball carrier has his back turned you won't even touch the ball attempted a form tackle.
Yeah, but leading with your helmet full bore into a guy that's already being tackled - and almost taking his head off sure will dislodge the ball. And don't give me the BS that Harrison didn't have the time to get his head up, or tackle with his hands- he had the opportunity and went for a deliberate kill shot on Cribbs. BTW, the Commish's office laid it out- rule 12 you can't spear a defenseless player- and that will go for not just wrs. Since Cribbs was already wrapped up and going down, I'd say he was not exactly in a position to protect himself.
Here's the exact quote of the rule- trolls. NFL Rule 12
"Note: Defenseless players in (f) and (g) shall include (i) a player in the act of or just after throwing a pass; (ii) a receiver catching or attempting to catch a pass; (iii) a runner already in the grasp of a tackler and whose forward progress has been stopped; (iv) a kickoff or punt returner attempting to field a kick in the air; and (v) a player on the ground at the end of a play.
If Harrison wants to keep getting game checks, he had damn better unlearn his headhunting ways. Goodell hath spoken- And to our Steeler trolls- if you think it's such an injustice to your goon, why not help pay his fine.
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Spunkonmyback DPOY, it's become apparent to me that you and I are just wasting our time. Nobody is going to change their tune around here because they have no desire to. That's not unexpected as team loyalty will always reign supreme, but some of the shit being posted on here just defies logic. Whatever... It's on to Miami for the Steelers in the quest for their 7th Super Bowl title and on to New Orleans for the Browns in their quest for the #1 draft pick. Normally by this time of the year Cleveland fans are getting hyped for the Cavs and already writing off the Browns... With no more Lebron, there isn't anything to look forward to for Cleveland sports fans.. Not even the Buckeyes any more. Have fun rooting against the Steelers for the rest of the season Browns fans, because I know that's really all you have to do this winter.
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Spunkonmyback DPOY, it's become apparent to me that you and I are just wasting our time. Nobody is going to change their tune around here because they have no desire to. That's not unexpected as team loyalty will always reign supreme, but some of the shit being posted on here just defies logic. Whatever... It's on to Miami for the Steelers in the quest for their 7th Super Bowl title and on to New Orleans for the Browns in their quest for the #1 draft pick. Normally by this time of the year Cleveland fans are getting hyped for the Cavs and already writing off the Browns... With no more Lebron, there isn't anything to look forward to for Cleveland sports fans.. Not even the Buckeyes any more. Have fun rooting against the Steelers for the rest of the season Browns fans, because I know that's really all you have to do this winter.
Spunkonmyback DPOY, it's become apparent to me that you and I are just wasting our time. Nobody is going to change their tune around here because they have no desire to. That's not unexpected as team loyalty will always reign supreme, but some of the shit being posted on here just defies logic. Whatever... It's on to Miami for the Steelers in the quest for their 7th Super Bowl title and on to New Orleans for the Browns in their quest for the #1 draft pick. Normally by this time of the year Cleveland fans are getting hyped for the Cavs and already writing off the Browns... With no more Lebron, there isn't anything to look forward to for Cleveland sports fans.. Not even the Buckeyes any more. Have fun rooting against the Steelers for the rest of the season Browns fans, because I know that's really all you have to do this winter.
And the feeling is mutual- seeing you guys try to defend your 'Roided up goon that just got fined $75,000.
I'd suggest Tomlin have Harrison read Rule 12 a few dozen times- assuming he's literate and has a higher than third grade reading comprehension- which I have my doubts about after hearing him talk.
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So WE are the ones getting slammed and called whiners and cryers?.......?
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d81b7...le=HP_headlines
Dude is absolutely pathetic...even admits that he is not capable of tackling properly....
Full article:
James Harrison believes the NFL's crackdown on dangerous hits is cramping his style. And, unless Pittsburgh Steelers coach Mike Tomlin can convince him otherwise, the 32-year-old linebacker claimed Tuesday night that he might consider retirement.
Hours after the league fined him $75,000 for his concussion-causing hit on Cleveland Browns wide receiver Mohamed Massaquoi, Harrison appeared on Fox Sports Radio's "Into The Night with Tony Bruno" and told guest host Jody McDonald that his first stop Wednesday morning will be in Tomlin's office.
"I'm going to sit down and have a serious conversation with my coach tomorrow and see if I can actually play by NFL rules and still be effective," Harrison said. "If not, I may have to give up playing football."
Harrison was one of three players punished Tuesday by the NFL for helmet-to-helmet hits. Hee was fined $25,000 more than New England Patriots safety Brandon Meriweather and Atlanta Falcons cornerback Dunta Robinson were because the league considered Harrison a repeat offender. He was fined $5,000 for slamming Tennessee Titans quarterback Vince Young to the turf during the Steelers' Sept. 19 victory.
Harrison, the 2008 Associated Press NFL Defensive Player of the Year and a three-time Pro Bowl pick, rammed headfirst into Massaquoi as the receiver tried to complete a catch during the second quarter. Massaquoi briefly crumpled to the turf but was soon on his feet, although he didn't return to the game.
Earlier in the game, Harrison sidelined Browns wide receiver Joshua Cribbs with a helmet-first hit that caused a concussion. The NFL said Monday that tackle was permissible because Cribbs was a runner on the WildDawg play, and that hit didn't factor into Harrison's fine. He wasn't penalized on either play.
Tomlin publicly backed Harrison on Tuesday morning before the fine was announced, saying the linebacker made "legal hits, not fineable hits." The coach also downplayed Harrison's postgame comments that he tries to hurt, not injure, opponents because it increases the Steelers' chances of winning.
"I didn't see those comments, but I know James," Tomlin said. "James says a lot of things he doesn't necessarily mean. He's a tough talker, like a lot of guys that play the game at this level. If you want to get to know James, catch him on a Tuesday when he's walking through the building with his son. He's a big softie."
Now Tomlin must talk down Harrison, who sounded frustrated by a punishment that his agent, Bill Parise, called "staggering." Parise said Harrison would appeal the fine.
"I really truly hope it's something that can be done," Harrison told Fox Sports Radio. "But the way that things were being explained to me today and the reasoning for it, I don't feel I can continue to play and be effective and, like I say, not have to worry about injuring someone else or risking injury to myself."
Harrison later added that if a solution can't be reached, "I'm going to have to try and find a way that I may possibly get out of whatever agreement I agreed to with the Steelers."
That agreement is a six-year, $51.175 million contract that he signed last year and contains low base salaries in the early portion. Harrison is making $44,411.76 in base salary per game this season, so the $75,000 fine equates to nearly two checks.
Massaquoi's agent, Brian Ayrault, doesn't believe even that's enough.
"Harrison has made $20 million over the past three years, and they only fined him $75,000?" Ayrault said. "To me, that's not going to be a deterrent. The Browns are probably going to be without a starter this week. I don't think that fine is a deterrent or fair to competitive balance.
Who let the DAWGS out?? -
HAHAHAHAHA. This made my night hands down.
Browns 1, Steelers 0.
Don't try to argue back because there is no point now.
Predicted Records:2010: 8-82011: 8-82012: 9-72013: 5-112014: 6-10 -
So WE are the ones getting slammed and called whiners and cryers?.......?
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d81b7...le=HP_headlines
Dude is absolutely pathetic...even admits that he is not capable of tackling properly....
Full article:
James Harrison believes the NFL's crackdown on dangerous hits is cramping his style. And, unless Pittsburgh Steelers coach Mike Tomlin can convince him otherwise, the 32-year-old linebacker claimed Tuesday night that he might consider retirement.
Hours after the league fined him $75,000 for his concussion-causing hit on Cleveland Browns wide receiver Mohamed Massaquoi, Harrison appeared on Fox Sports Radio's "Into The Night with Tony Bruno" and told guest host Jody McDonald that his first stop Wednesday morning will be in Tomlin's office.
"I'm going to sit down and have a serious conversation with my coach tomorrow and see if I can actually play by NFL rules and still be effective," Harrison said. "If not, I may have to give up playing football."
Harrison was one of three players punished Tuesday by the NFL for helmet-to-helmet hits. Hee was fined $25,000 more than New England Patriots safety Brandon Meriweather and Atlanta Falcons cornerback Dunta Robinson were because the league considered Harrison a repeat offender. He was fined $5,000 for slamming Tennessee Titans quarterback Vince Young to the turf during the Steelers' Sept. 19 victory.
Harrison, the 2008 Associated Press NFL Defensive Player of the Year and a three-time Pro Bowl pick, rammed headfirst into Massaquoi as the receiver tried to complete a catch during the second quarter. Massaquoi briefly crumpled to the turf but was soon on his feet, although he didn't return to the game.
Earlier in the game, Harrison sidelined Browns wide receiver Joshua Cribbs with a helmet-first hit that caused a concussion. The NFL said Monday that tackle was permissible because Cribbs was a runner on the WildDawg play, and that hit didn't factor into Harrison's fine. He wasn't penalized on either play.
Tomlin publicly backed Harrison on Tuesday morning before the fine was announced, saying the linebacker made "legal hits, not fineable hits." The coach also downplayed Harrison's postgame comments that he tries to hurt, not injure, opponents because it increases the Steelers' chances of winning.
"I didn't see those comments, but I know James," Tomlin said. "James says a lot of things he doesn't necessarily mean. He's a tough talker, like a lot of guys that play the game at this level. If you want to get to know James, catch him on a Tuesday when he's walking through the building with his son. He's a big softie."
Now Tomlin must talk down Harrison, who sounded frustrated by a punishment that his agent, Bill Parise, called "staggering." Parise said Harrison would appeal the fine.
"I really truly hope it's something that can be done," Harrison told Fox Sports Radio. "But the way that things were being explained to me today and the reasoning for it, I don't feel I can continue to play and be effective and, like I say, not have to worry about injuring someone else or risking injury to myself."
Harrison later added that if a solution can't be reached, "I'm going to have to try and find a way that I may possibly get out of whatever agreement I agreed to with the Steelers."
That agreement is a six-year, $51.175 million contract that he signed last year and contains low base salaries in the early portion. Harrison is making $44,411.76 in base salary per game this season, so the $75,000 fine equates to nearly two checks.
Massaquoi's agent, Brian Ayrault, doesn't believe even that's enough.
"Harrison has made $20 million over the past three years, and they only fined him $75,000?" Ayrault said. "To me, that's not going to be a deterrent. The Browns are probably going to be without a starter this week. I don't think that fine is a deterrent or fair to competitive balance.
So WE are the ones getting slammed and called whiners and cryers?.......?
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d81b7...le=HP_headlines
Dude is absolutely pathetic...even admits that he is not capable of tackling properly....
What???? WHAAAAAAHHHHH........ They won't let me spear players anymore????? WHAAAAAAHHHHH!!!!!!
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HAHAHAHAHA. This made my night hands down.
Browns 1, Steelers 0.
Don't try to argue back because there is no point now.
HAHAHAHAHA. This made my night hands down.
Browns 1, Steelers 0.
Don't try to argue back because there is no point now.
If you know anything about Steeler fans, they'll find a way to argue this matter no matter how wrong they are.
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HAHAHAHAHA. This made my night hands down.
Browns 1, Steelers 0.
Don't try to argue back because there is no point now.
HAHAHAHAHA. This made my night hands down.
Browns 1, Steelers 0.
Don't try to argue back because there is no point now.
We lost the game................which is more important?
"The purpose of the military is to kill people and break things " - mike huckabee -
I am glad that I was at work and couldn't watch this game as I may have thrown a bottle. Keep it clean Squeeelers... Low class... need I say more?
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Is he serious??? He actually thinks he doesn't have to play by the rules?? The penalties for helmet to helmet hits are in place for a reason and they're certainly not new, they're just not inforced strongly enough.
Was watching an ESPN story today on this subject because of how bad these hits were throughout Sunday's games. This is not just some silly rule. These are professional players who have been taught to launch and hit like this. There is no exuse for it and they cannot say they can't help themselves and it isn't true that a player can't change his way of playing. Instaed of launching and hitting helmet to helmet, he is quite capable of turning his head and launching into the sternum instaed of the head and neck area and being just as effective in his hitting. He CAN make that decision instantly and make the right choice instead of risking paralyzing the guy on the recieveing end or himself.
Players like Harrison are not going to take the NFL seriously UNTIL there is an example set. Fineing alone isn't gonna cut it. Someone needs to be fined and suspended or removed from the team or the NFL if need be. Harrison is a repeat offender and now the players will get one free pass then the crap needs to hit the fan. The offending player needs to and is capable of making the choice before he makes his hit and needs to keep in mind, if I do this, I'm gonna be fined, suspended or worse. And IMO, if Harrison doesn't think the rules apply to him, then let him quit or get rid of him before he kills someone. These guys get paid the big bucks to play a game and put their life on the line and there is no room for people who intentionally injure other players although I heard him say he wasnt to hurt the other guys but not injure them. Bull.
Just my amature opinion.
Heidi ''Life's tough ... it's even tougher if you're stupid.'' --John Wayne -
I am glad that I was at work and couldn't watch this game as I may have thrown a bottle. Keep it clean Squeeelers... Low class... need I say more?
I am glad that I was at work and couldn't watch this game as I may have thrown a bottle. Keep it clean Squeeelers... Low class... need I say more?
Unfortunately it's not just the Steelers. This is a growing and dangerous parctice throughout football. And it needs to change before it goes to far.
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Have you ever had aConcussion? Now mine was extreme and non football or any sports related... but it really messed me up. (skull fracture and 4 internal brain bleeds didn't help much either.) so I can't really talk about just concussions.... I do know that mine left me dead ass on the street and I got picked up by my brother and carried home. I woke up if that's what you call it, an hour or so later.
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Have you ever had aConcussion? Now mine was extreme and non football or any sports related... but it really messed me up. (skull fracture and 4 internal brain bleeds didn't help much either.) so I can't really talk about just concussions.... I do know that mine left me dead ass on the street and I got picked up by my brother and carried home. I woke up if that's what you call it, an hour or so later.
Have you ever had aConcussion? Now mine was extreme and non football or any sports related... but it really messed me up. (skull fracture and 4 internal brain bleeds didn't help much either.) so I can't really talk about just concussions.... I do know that mine left me dead ass on the street and I got picked up by my brother and carried home. I woke up if that's what you call it, an hour or so later.
I've had 8. Each one has sucked.
I'm awesome, and I fuck dolphins. Ghoolie 12/2/2012: I have absolutely no skills, training or pride -
HAHAHAHAHA. This made my night hands down.
Browns 1, Steelers 0.
Don't try to argue back because there is no point now.
We lost the game................which is more important?
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Have you ever had aConcussion? Now mine was extreme and non football or any sports related... but it really messed me up. (skull fracture and 4 internal brain bleeds didn't help much either.) so I can't really talk about just concussions.... I do know that mine left me dead ass on the street and I got picked up by my brother and carried home. I woke up if that's what you call it, an hour or so later.
I've had 8. Each one has sucked.
I've had 8. Each one has sucked.
Did they nearly kill you? Are you half deaf as a result of any of them? Did you lose your memory for nine months from any of them? Just because you had (what might have been a light concussion)) doesn't mean that they are all that way.
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