Lombardi: Haden struggled in camp
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Yeah. Joe Haden had an up and down day, because Sanchez completed more than one pass.
good grief.
Haden had a fine day, as evidenced by his making Braylon Wailin Edwards look like a fool on that int at the 3 yd line, as well
as most of the game. There aren't many cb's who have the incredible reaction time, speed, strength and agility like Haden does.
This means a qb who doesn't complete all his passes in game, had an "up and down" day?
"sigh"
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Yeah. Joe Haden had an up and down day, because Sanchez completed more than one pass.
good grief.
Haden had a fine day, as evidenced by his making Braylon Wailin Edwards look like a fool on that int at the 3 yd line, as well
as most of the game. There aren't many cb's who have the incredible reaction time, speed, strength and agility like Haden does.
This means a qb who doesn't complete all his passes in game, had an "up and down" day?
"sigh"
Yeah. Joe Haden had an up and down day, because Sanchez completed more than one pass.
good grief.
Haden had a fine day, as evidenced by his making Braylon Wailin Edwards look like a fool on that int at the 3 yd line, as well
as most of the game. There aren't many cb's who have the incredible reaction time, speed, strength and agility like Haden does.
This means a qb who doesn't complete all his passes in game, had an "up and down" day?
"sigh"
Haden was "good enough" at a minimum. Let's give him a rest. If we're assigning blame to CB's, #21 is top of the list. Santonio Holmes went up to his OC and said #21 was giving him too much leverage the whole game. (Giving up too much of the inside). That's when they hit him with the slant that he barely moved on.
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I can remember one particular drive where Haden made all three plays, one pass deflection, one over thrown pass due to good coverage by Haden, and tackled Homes short of the first down, which if it was Wright, Holmes would have gotten across the line.
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Yeah. Joe Haden had an up and down day, because Sanchez completed more than one pass.
good grief.
Haden had a fine day, as evidenced by his making Braylon Wailin Edwards look like a fool on that int at the 3 yd line, as well
as most of the game. There aren't many cb's who have the incredible reaction time, speed, strength and agility like Haden does.
This means a qb who doesn't complete all his passes in game, had an "up and down" day?
"sigh"
Yeah. Joe Haden had an up and down day, because Sanchez completed more than one pass.
good grief.
Haden had a fine day, as evidenced by his making Braylon Wailin Edwards look like a fool on that int at the 3 yd line, as well
as most of the game. There aren't many cb's who have the incredible reaction time, speed, strength and agility like Haden does.
This means a qb who doesn't complete all his passes in game, had an "up and down" day?
"sigh"
I agree, Haden had a fine day especially in the second half. Essentially took Edwards out of the game.
The underneath routes were open because Sanchez was getting way too much time to throw, and when he didn't he was able to elude sacks with his feet and still make a play. Isn't a cornerback in the league who can stay with a wr when the QB gets six seconds to throw.
And as to Dez Bryant, hindsight says character risk that turned out OK. Question is who do the Browns have to cover a guy like that? Now at least they have Hayden. IMHO taking a corner first in the 2010 draft was absolutely the right thing to do.
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To clarify me and Alo going back and forth on Haden like he's Aaron Curry or something (!)... I think he's good. I've always thought he was good. I can't imagine NOT thinking he's good.
The debate was and is whether he's #7 overall good. And considering that's 7 spots higher than Revis was picked... man, you gotta be a REALLY good corner to make that a value pick.
I love the kid now. He's a Brown at a position of need... especially with Wright finding new levels of suck-ass. But I think we could have done more with a top 10 pick.
Yeah, I thought he was up and down. Consider the fact that we couldn't get off the field on defense and a lot of that was passes in front of both corners... I don't think anybody was awesome on pass defense. Sanchez had a big day (300 yards and 2 TDs).
(A: I know Curry had his first good game of the season... so maybe the light is going on. Still, he has only 36 tackles all year.)
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No I don't think he was a good pick at 7, and I think he wasn't supposed to leave the board until the high teens low 20's so I have no idea why we didn't trade back or pick up Thomas, but what is done is done and I think Haden should be starting NOW!
Ruining threads since 1897. -
No I don't think he was a good pick at 7, and I think he wasn't supposed to leave the board until the high teens low 20's so I have no idea why we didn't trade back or pick up Thomas, but what is done is done and I think Haden should be starting NOW!
Hillis-iz-Boss said:
No I don't think he was a good pick at 7, and I think he wasn't supposed to leave the board until the high teens low 20's so I have no idea why we didn't trade back or pick up Thomas, but what is done is done and I think Haden should be starting NOW!Oh, I agree. He's the best cover guy on the team.
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I know of second hand information that Rob Ryan thinks that Haden is too slow for the NFL elite and didn't want to draft him. Although would play him over Wright, but Mangini thinks Wright will come around.
I like our Defensive back scheme this year more than any other year in the new era by far, but I don't think that we have the shut-down DB's to play on an island. The comeback route hurt us Sunday, but the backs and TE's releasing late and finding themselves uncovered the past two weeks is a huge problem that will continue to get exploited until we get a fix.
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I know of second hand information that Rob Ryan thinks that Haden is too slow for the NFL elite and didn't want to draft him. Although would play him over Wright, but Mangini thinks Wright will come around.
I like our Defensive back scheme this year more than any other year in the new era by far, but I don't think that we have the shut-down DB's to play on an island. The comeback route hurt us Sunday, but the backs and TE's releasing late and finding themselves uncovered the past two weeks is a huge problem that will continue to get exploited until we get a fix.
I know of second hand information that Rob Ryan thinks that Haden is too slow for the NFL elite and didn't want to draft him. Although would play him over Wright, but Mangini thinks Wright will come around.
I like our Defensive back scheme this year more than any other year in the new era by far, but I don't think that we have the shut-down DB's to play on an island. The comeback route hurt us Sunday, but the backs and TE's releasing late and finding themselves uncovered the past two weeks is a huge problem that will continue to get exploited until we get a fix.
I think that's really well put, Ate. I think Haden is a good cornerback... but far from "clean." He seems to lack both high-end speed and suddenness to come back and make a play on a 9-yard pass on third and 8... something that happened a lot yesterday.
He's tough and he's physical and has above average straight-line speed... but I just don't see a #7 overall pick. At least not yet.
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@mikeyP72 - I can't fault Haden for the "rookie mistake" of picking off that pass. Just look at how dumb Texans CB Glover Quinn looks for trying to bat down that Hail Mary. That he was in position and made the pick bodes well for his development, even if it wasn't the smartest move.
It's tough to evaluate DBs based on TV tape, but I suspect all of us would be impressed if we saw Haden battling Braylon more often. I believe his longest reception was when Ventrone was trying to chase him down.
@Shep - Dez is looking like a future star, but I think part of the reason he's playing so well is he has a massive chip on his shoulder. As you may recall, I talked on draft night about trading up for Dez because he'd be motivated by teams smacking him around for being lazy/irresponsible/immature.
If he got top ten money, I'm not sure he'd be as determined to prove his doubters wrong. That's the kind of gamble you're willing to take -- guys with big concerns about their off the field behavior (Maualuga), toughness (Beanie Wells), and general douchebaggery (Clausen). But the Browns can't afford to have another Braylon, especially when they're building based on a high character team concept that appears to reaping some serious rewards.
The guys at ProFootballFocus chart every play, assigning ratings based on player performance. At this point, the only rookie CB ahead of Haden is super-steal UDFA Sam Shields. And Shields has been playing more snaps for a team that has a better pass rush.
So it's hard to say that Haden wasn't a good pick. And that's really the only way to evaluate draft decisions. If you're going to do the hindsight arguments, our FO would look like idiots for not drafting Mike Williams, Aaron Hernandez, etc. And some here would look even worse for advocating using top ten money on slugs and ineffective players.
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You may have a point on Bryant... but I don't see him as anything remotely like Braylon except that both are WRs and bad things have been said about them. I've yet to hear Dez called a douchebag. I've heard flake and spacey... loves football and is a competitor and good teammate, so keep him in a football environment... but he hasn't beaten a little guy's ass or said a bunch of dicky things about an entire city. He's not a diva.
I do think the chip has been a good thing. Would've loved to have gotten him at 20. He's doing things earlier than most rookie WRs do them, becoming the go-to guy on a team that already had one.
Yeah, it's always a gray area on draft redux, I agree (again). But my repeated take on Haden was that he's a good corner... but may never be a great one because of certain limitations. I'll readily come around when he looks like a Pro Bowl shutdown corner, which is what you expect out of a #7 pick at that position. Just like Curry has seemed good rather than great, a guy who fits in rather than stands out, Haden has seemed like a good player rather than a special one.
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Yeah, clearly had his best day of the season and of his career.
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@mikeyP72 - I can't fault Haden for the "rookie mistake" of picking off that pass. Just look at how dumb Texans CB Glover Quinn looks for trying to bat down that Hail Mary. That he was in position and made the pick bodes well for his development, even if it wasn't the smartest move.
It's tough to evaluate DBs based on TV tape, but I suspect all of us would be impressed if we saw Haden battling Braylon more often. I believe his longest reception was when Ventrone was trying to chase him down.
@Shep - Dez is looking like a future star, but I think part of the reason he's playing so well is he has a massive chip on his shoulder. As you may recall, I talked on draft night about trading up for Dez because he'd be motivated by teams smacking him around for being lazy/irresponsible/immature.
If he got top ten money, I'm not sure he'd be as determined to prove his doubters wrong. That's the kind of gamble you're willing to take -- guys with big concerns about their off the field behavior (Maualuga), toughness (Beanie Wells), and general douchebaggery (Clausen). But the Browns can't afford to have another Braylon, especially when they're building based on a high character team concept that appears to reaping some serious rewards.
The guys at ProFootballFocus chart every play, assigning ratings based on player performance. At this point, the only rookie CB ahead of Haden is super-steal UDFA Sam Shields. And Shields has been playing more snaps for a team that has a better pass rush.
So it's hard to say that Haden wasn't a good pick. And that's really the only way to evaluate draft decisions. If you're going to do the hindsight arguments, our FO would look like idiots for not drafting Mike Williams, Aaron Hernandez, etc. And some here would look even worse for advocating using top ten money on slugs and ineffective players.
@mikeyP72 - I can't fault Haden for the "rookie mistake" of picking off that pass. Just look at how dumb Texans CB Glover Quinn looks for trying to bat down that Hail Mary. That he was in position and made the pick bodes well for his development, even if it wasn't the smartest move.
I don't blame Haden for intercepting the ball on 3rd-n-long, it was in OT and who is to say that the Jets don't line up to go for it on 4th downa nd convert it, or the punt gets muffed with our 2nd or 3rd string returner in there (Cribbs was out)? Many things could have happened, but getting the ball back in our possesion in OT is priority, IMO.
We should have ran on first down though and kept the clock ticking, but I like the balls in going for it though. We lost trying to win, not trying not to lose.
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Yeah, clearly had his best day of the season and of his career.
Yep. We'll see if he can keep it up. And if Maualuga (2 tackles yesterday) and Beanie (3.3 YPC) can prove their worth.
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Someone on another board linked to this stuff on PFW:
• "(Cowboys WR) Dez Bryant has been late to meetings and falling asleep in them and nothing was done about it. There was zero accountability under Wade (Phillips). ... (Cowboys owner) Jerry Jones has as much debt as anyone in the NFL and he finished the first half of the season 1-7. He had no choice but to make a change. … I would say it was a year overdue."
• "(Bengals CB) Leon Hall has been playing at a high level. He is the one player on Cincinnati who has really been playing well. … Their linebackers are too technically unsound. Watch and count how many times (Rey) Maualuga runs into his own guy. He has no idea. … There is a lot of talent on that roster. But I don't know if they have enough brains. Look at how many times they beat themselves, starting with Carson Palmer. I've never seen a quarterback miss so many open receivers."
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I'll try to find the link, but I read somewhere that Aaron Curry eats live babies.
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@mikeyP72 - I can't fault Haden for the "rookie mistake" of picking off that pass. Just look at how dumb Texans CB Glover Quinn looks for trying to bat down that Hail Mary. That he was in position and made the pick bodes well for his development, even if it wasn't the smartest move.
I don't blame Haden for intercepting the ball on 3rd-n-long, it was in OT and who is to say that the Jets don't line up to go for it on 4th downa nd convert it, or the punt gets muffed with our 2nd or 3rd string returner in there (Cribbs was out)? Many things could have happened, but getting the ball back in our possesion in OT is priority, IMO.
We should have ran on first down though and kept the clock ticking, but I like the balls in going for it though. We lost trying to win, not trying not to lose.
I don't blame Haden for intercepting the ball on 3rd-n-long, it was in OT and who is to say that the Jets don't line up to go for it on 4th downa nd convert it, or the punt gets muffed with our 2nd or 3rd string returner in there (Cribbs was out)? Many things could have happened, but getting the ball back in our possesion in OT is priority, IMO.
We should have ran on first down though and kept the clock ticking, but I like the balls in going for it though. We lost trying to win, not trying not to lose.
Your KEY statement is, "We lost trying to win, not trying not to lose." I have been an avid Brown's Fan since BEFORE they drafted Jimmy Brown, & THIS team ranks among the most aggressive I've seen on BOTH sides of the ball. I LOVE that. I have often said that I can accept losing, IF we can say we played aggressively.
Mike
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I don't blame him, either... I think you pick off the ball, period.
I also don't blame Daboll for taking a shot. Watson was open; it was one of McCoy's few misses. One of about a dozen things that had to go the Jets way. Then again, they kept missing field goals.
The three things that stood out to me that lost us the game: Stuckey's fumble, Rogers not sacking Sanchez at the five to make it 3rd and 18, and McCoy missing a very open Watson on the last possession.
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I don't blame him, either... I think you pick off the ball, period.
I also don't blame Daboll for taking a shot. Watson was open; it was one of McCoy's few misses. One of about a dozen things that had to go the Jets way. Then again, they kept missing field goals.
The three things that stood out to me that lost us the game: Stuckey's fumble, Rogers not sacking Sanchez at the five to make it 3rd and 18, and McCoy missing a very open Watson on the last possession.
I don't blame him, either... I think you pick off the ball, period.
I also don't blame Daboll for taking a shot. Watson was open; it was one of McCoy's few misses. One of about a dozen things that had to go the Jets way. Then again, they kept missing field goals.
The three things that stood out to me that lost us the game: Stuckey's fumble, Rogers not sacking Sanchez at the five to make it 3rd and 18, and McCoy missing a very open Watson on the last possession.
The thing that kills me is the criticism on TV last night and on the radio today complaining about the play-calling backed up on the 2 yard line in OT. They took a shot on first down. They get criticized for running on second down. It makes sense to me to try and get the rookie out of 3rd and 10. If Hillis gains four yards, it's more manageable. I have NO problem whatsoever with that play-call.
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