Lombardi: Haden struggled in camp
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@mikeyP72 - I can't fault Haden for the "rookie mistake" of picking off that pass. Just look at how dumb Texans CB Glover Quinn looks for trying to bat down that Hail Mary. That he was in position and made the pick bodes well for his development, even if it wasn't the smartest move.
It's tough to evaluate DBs based on TV tape, but I suspect all of us would be impressed if we saw Haden battling Braylon more often. I believe his longest reception was when Ventrone was trying to chase him down.
@Shep - Dez is looking like a future star, but I think part of the reason he's playing so well is he has a massive chip on his shoulder. As you may recall, I talked on draft night about trading up for Dez because he'd be motivated by teams smacking him around for being lazy/irresponsible/immature.
If he got top ten money, I'm not sure he'd be as determined to prove his doubters wrong. That's the kind of gamble you're willing to take -- guys with big concerns about their off the field behavior (Maualuga), toughness (Beanie Wells), and general douchebaggery (Clausen). But the Browns can't afford to have another Braylon, especially when they're building based on a high character team concept that appears to reaping some serious rewards.
The guys at ProFootballFocus chart every play, assigning ratings based on player performance. At this point, the only rookie CB ahead of Haden is super-steal UDFA Sam Shields. And Shields has been playing more snaps for a team that has a better pass rush.
So it's hard to say that Haden wasn't a good pick. And that's really the only way to evaluate draft decisions. If you're going to do the hindsight arguments, our FO would look like idiots for not drafting Mike Williams, Aaron Hernandez, etc. And some here would look even worse for advocating using top ten money on slugs and ineffective players.
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You may have a point on Bryant... but I don't see him as anything remotely like Braylon except that both are WRs and bad things have been said about them. I've yet to hear Dez called a douchebag. I've heard flake and spacey... loves football and is a competitor and good teammate, so keep him in a football environment... but he hasn't beaten a little guy's ass or said a bunch of dicky things about an entire city. He's not a diva.
I do think the chip has been a good thing. Would've loved to have gotten him at 20. He's doing things earlier than most rookie WRs do them, becoming the go-to guy on a team that already had one.
Yeah, it's always a gray area on draft redux, I agree (again). But my repeated take on Haden was that he's a good corner... but may never be a great one because of certain limitations. I'll readily come around when he looks like a Pro Bowl shutdown corner, which is what you expect out of a #7 pick at that position. Just like Curry has seemed good rather than great, a guy who fits in rather than stands out, Haden has seemed like a good player rather than a special one.
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Yeah, clearly had his best day of the season and of his career.
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@mikeyP72 - I can't fault Haden for the "rookie mistake" of picking off that pass. Just look at how dumb Texans CB Glover Quinn looks for trying to bat down that Hail Mary. That he was in position and made the pick bodes well for his development, even if it wasn't the smartest move.
It's tough to evaluate DBs based on TV tape, but I suspect all of us would be impressed if we saw Haden battling Braylon more often. I believe his longest reception was when Ventrone was trying to chase him down.
@Shep - Dez is looking like a future star, but I think part of the reason he's playing so well is he has a massive chip on his shoulder. As you may recall, I talked on draft night about trading up for Dez because he'd be motivated by teams smacking him around for being lazy/irresponsible/immature.
If he got top ten money, I'm not sure he'd be as determined to prove his doubters wrong. That's the kind of gamble you're willing to take -- guys with big concerns about their off the field behavior (Maualuga), toughness (Beanie Wells), and general douchebaggery (Clausen). But the Browns can't afford to have another Braylon, especially when they're building based on a high character team concept that appears to reaping some serious rewards.
The guys at ProFootballFocus chart every play, assigning ratings based on player performance. At this point, the only rookie CB ahead of Haden is super-steal UDFA Sam Shields. And Shields has been playing more snaps for a team that has a better pass rush.
So it's hard to say that Haden wasn't a good pick. And that's really the only way to evaluate draft decisions. If you're going to do the hindsight arguments, our FO would look like idiots for not drafting Mike Williams, Aaron Hernandez, etc. And some here would look even worse for advocating using top ten money on slugs and ineffective players.
@mikeyP72 - I can't fault Haden for the "rookie mistake" of picking off that pass. Just look at how dumb Texans CB Glover Quinn looks for trying to bat down that Hail Mary. That he was in position and made the pick bodes well for his development, even if it wasn't the smartest move.
I don't blame Haden for intercepting the ball on 3rd-n-long, it was in OT and who is to say that the Jets don't line up to go for it on 4th downa nd convert it, or the punt gets muffed with our 2nd or 3rd string returner in there (Cribbs was out)? Many things could have happened, but getting the ball back in our possesion in OT is priority, IMO.
We should have ran on first down though and kept the clock ticking, but I like the balls in going for it though. We lost trying to win, not trying not to lose.
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Yeah, clearly had his best day of the season and of his career.
Yep. We'll see if he can keep it up. And if Maualuga (2 tackles yesterday) and Beanie (3.3 YPC) can prove their worth.
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Someone on another board linked to this stuff on PFW:
• "(Cowboys WR) Dez Bryant has been late to meetings and falling asleep in them and nothing was done about it. There was zero accountability under Wade (Phillips). ... (Cowboys owner) Jerry Jones has as much debt as anyone in the NFL and he finished the first half of the season 1-7. He had no choice but to make a change. … I would say it was a year overdue."
• "(Bengals CB) Leon Hall has been playing at a high level. He is the one player on Cincinnati who has really been playing well. … Their linebackers are too technically unsound. Watch and count how many times (Rey) Maualuga runs into his own guy. He has no idea. … There is a lot of talent on that roster. But I don't know if they have enough brains. Look at how many times they beat themselves, starting with Carson Palmer. I've never seen a quarterback miss so many open receivers."
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I'll try to find the link, but I read somewhere that Aaron Curry eats live babies.
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@mikeyP72 - I can't fault Haden for the "rookie mistake" of picking off that pass. Just look at how dumb Texans CB Glover Quinn looks for trying to bat down that Hail Mary. That he was in position and made the pick bodes well for his development, even if it wasn't the smartest move.
I don't blame Haden for intercepting the ball on 3rd-n-long, it was in OT and who is to say that the Jets don't line up to go for it on 4th downa nd convert it, or the punt gets muffed with our 2nd or 3rd string returner in there (Cribbs was out)? Many things could have happened, but getting the ball back in our possesion in OT is priority, IMO.
We should have ran on first down though and kept the clock ticking, but I like the balls in going for it though. We lost trying to win, not trying not to lose.
I don't blame Haden for intercepting the ball on 3rd-n-long, it was in OT and who is to say that the Jets don't line up to go for it on 4th downa nd convert it, or the punt gets muffed with our 2nd or 3rd string returner in there (Cribbs was out)? Many things could have happened, but getting the ball back in our possesion in OT is priority, IMO.
We should have ran on first down though and kept the clock ticking, but I like the balls in going for it though. We lost trying to win, not trying not to lose.
Your KEY statement is, "We lost trying to win, not trying not to lose." I have been an avid Brown's Fan since BEFORE they drafted Jimmy Brown, & THIS team ranks among the most aggressive I've seen on BOTH sides of the ball. I LOVE that. I have often said that I can accept losing, IF we can say we played aggressively.
Mike
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I don't blame him, either... I think you pick off the ball, period.
I also don't blame Daboll for taking a shot. Watson was open; it was one of McCoy's few misses. One of about a dozen things that had to go the Jets way. Then again, they kept missing field goals.
The three things that stood out to me that lost us the game: Stuckey's fumble, Rogers not sacking Sanchez at the five to make it 3rd and 18, and McCoy missing a very open Watson on the last possession.
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I don't blame him, either... I think you pick off the ball, period.
I also don't blame Daboll for taking a shot. Watson was open; it was one of McCoy's few misses. One of about a dozen things that had to go the Jets way. Then again, they kept missing field goals.
The three things that stood out to me that lost us the game: Stuckey's fumble, Rogers not sacking Sanchez at the five to make it 3rd and 18, and McCoy missing a very open Watson on the last possession.
I don't blame him, either... I think you pick off the ball, period.
I also don't blame Daboll for taking a shot. Watson was open; it was one of McCoy's few misses. One of about a dozen things that had to go the Jets way. Then again, they kept missing field goals.
The three things that stood out to me that lost us the game: Stuckey's fumble, Rogers not sacking Sanchez at the five to make it 3rd and 18, and McCoy missing a very open Watson on the last possession.
The thing that kills me is the criticism on TV last night and on the radio today complaining about the play-calling backed up on the 2 yard line in OT. They took a shot on first down. They get criticized for running on second down. It makes sense to me to try and get the rookie out of 3rd and 10. If Hillis gains four yards, it's more manageable. I have NO problem whatsoever with that play-call.
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I don't blame him, either... I think you pick off the ball, period.
I also don't blame Daboll for taking a shot. Watson was open; it was one of McCoy's few misses. One of about a dozen things that had to go the Jets way. Then again, they kept missing field goals.
The three things that stood out to me that lost us the game: Stuckey's fumble, Rogers not sacking Sanchez at the five to make it 3rd and 18, and McCoy missing a very open Watson on the last possession.
I don't blame him, either... I think you pick off the ball, period.
I also don't blame Daboll for taking a shot. Watson was open; it was one of McCoy's few misses. One of about a dozen things that had to go the Jets way. Then again, they kept missing field goals.
The three things that stood out to me that lost us the game: Stuckey's fumble, Rogers not sacking Sanchez at the five to make it 3rd and 18, and McCoy missing a very open Watson on the last possession.
The second to last drive was the one that I would want back. MH got behind the Jets and McCoy missed by a couple of yards, he hits that and it's TD game over.
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I don't blame him, either... I think you pick off the ball, period.
I also don't blame Daboll for taking a shot. Watson was open; it was one of McCoy's few misses. One of about a dozen things that had to go the Jets way. Then again, they kept missing field goals.
The three things that stood out to me that lost us the game: Stuckey's fumble, Rogers not sacking Sanchez at the five to make it 3rd and 18, and McCoy missing a very open Watson on the last possession.
The thing that kills me is the criticism on TV last night and on the radio today complaining about the play-calling backed up on the 2 yard line in OT. They took a shot on first down. They get criticized for running on second down. It makes sense to me to try and get the rookie out of 3rd and 10. If Hillis gains four yards, it's more manageable. I have NO problem whatsoever with that play-call.
The thing that kills me is the criticism on TV last night and on the radio today complaining about the play-calling backed up on the 2 yard line in OT. They took a shot on first down. They get criticized for running on second down. It makes sense to me to try and get the rookie out of 3rd and 10. If Hillis gains four yards, it's more manageable. I have NO problem whatsoever with that play-call.
i think Walker from the AFC North blog on espn said it the best. His words were close to "If that make that pass to Watson, I say good gutsy call, since they didn't I have to sit here and go why?"
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No I don't think he was a good pick at 7, and I think he wasn't supposed to leave the board until the high teens low 20's so I have no idea why we didn't trade back or pick up Thomas, but what is done is done and I think Haden should be starting NOW!
Hillis-iz-Boss said:
No I don't think he was a good pick at 7, and I think he wasn't supposed to leave the board until the high teens low 20's so I have no idea why we didn't trade back or pick up Thomas, but what is done is done and I think Haden should be starting NOW!To answer why we didn't trade back- you need someone who wants to trade UP. Looking at that draft, it wasn't going to happen. If you get a player at a position of need that can play 7-10 years in the NFL in the first round, you've done well, regardless where they were taken.
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I don't blame him, either... I think you pick off the ball, period.
I also don't blame Daboll for taking a shot. Watson was open; it was one of McCoy's few misses. One of about a dozen things that had to go the Jets way. Then again, they kept missing field goals.
The three things that stood out to me that lost us the game: Stuckey's fumble, Rogers not sacking Sanchez at the five to make it 3rd and 18, and McCoy missing a very open Watson on the last possession.
The second to last drive was the one that I would want back. MH got behind the Jets and McCoy missed by a couple of yards, he hits that and it's TD game over.
The second to last drive was the one that I would want back. MH got behind the Jets and McCoy missed by a couple of yards, he hits that and it's TD game over.
I remember that play, I also remember Stuckey getting knocked down 5 yards down the field and seeing the ref throw a flag to only pick it back up without giving an explanation. I thought the pass wasn't going to matter because of the penalty but then we go and punt it and I was like what the xxxx, why didn't we get the first down? There was at least 4 flags that game were they were against the Jet's, but were then picked up and canceled.
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Hillis-iz-Boss said:
No I don't think he was a good pick at 7, and I think he wasn't supposed to leave the board until the high teens low 20's so I have no idea why we didn't trade back or pick up Thomas, but what is done is done and I think Haden should be starting NOW!To answer why we didn't trade back- you need someone who wants to trade UP. Looking at that draft, it wasn't going to happen. If you get a player at a position of need that can play 7-10 years in the NFL in the first round, you've done well, regardless where they were taken.
To answer why we didn't trade back- you need someone who wants to trade UP. Looking at that draft, it wasn't going to happen. If you get a player at a position of need that can play 7-10 years in the NFL in the first round, you've done well, regardless where they were taken.
Yep. Every year, trading down becomes the most popular option among fans, but it's rarely realistic.
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To answer why we didn't trade back- you need someone who wants to trade UP. Looking at that draft, it wasn't going to happen. If you get a player at a position of need that can play 7-10 years in the NFL in the first round, you've done well, regardless where they were taken.
Yep. Every year, trading down becomes the most popular option among fans, but it's rarely realistic.
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Someone on another board linked to this stuff on PFW:
• "(Cowboys WR) Dez Bryant has been late to meetings and falling asleep in them and nothing was done about it. There was zero accountability under Wade (Phillips). ... (Cowboys owner) Jerry Jones has as much debt as anyone in the NFL and he finished the first half of the season 1-7. He had no choice but to make a change. … I would say it was a year overdue."
• "(Bengals CB) Leon Hall has been playing at a high level. He is the one player on Cincinnati who has really been playing well. … Their linebackers are too technically unsound. Watch and count how many times (Rey) Maualuga runs into his own guy. He has no idea. … There is a lot of talent on that roster. But I don't know if they have enough brains. Look at how many times they beat themselves, starting with Carson Palmer. I've never seen a quarterback miss so many open receivers."
Someone on another board linked to this stuff on PFW:
• "(Cowboys WR) Dez Bryant has been late to meetings and falling asleep in them and nothing was done about it. There was zero accountability under Wade (Phillips). ... (Cowboys owner) Jerry Jones has as much debt as anyone in the NFL and he finished the first half of the season 1-7. He had no choice but to make a change. … I would say it was a year overdue."
That's EXACTLY why the Browns didn't want Bryant. And I haven't forgotten about his "I ain't carrying the vets pads in training camp" either. I see a Randy Moss or Terrell Owens in my crystal ball for Dez.
Guys like McCoy, Hillis, and Fujita are the template for the types of players the Browns want on the team.
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Someone on another board linked to this stuff on PFW:
• "(Cowboys WR) Dez Bryant has been late to meetings and falling asleep in them and nothing was done about it. There was zero accountability under Wade (Phillips). ... (Cowboys owner) Jerry Jones has as much debt as anyone in the NFL and he finished the first half of the season 1-7. He had no choice but to make a change. … I would say it was a year overdue."
That's EXACTLY why the Browns didn't want Bryant. And I haven't forgotten about his "I ain't carrying the vets pads in training camp" either. I see a Randy Moss or Terrell Owens in my crystal ball for Dez.
Guys like McCoy, Hillis, and Fujita are the template for the types of players the Browns want on the team.
That's EXACTLY why the Browns didn't want Bryant. And I haven't forgotten about his "I ain't carrying the vets pads in training camp" either. I see a Randy Moss or Terrell Owens in my crystal ball for Dez.
Guys like McCoy, Hillis, and Fujita are the template for the types of players the Browns want on the team.
I agree and I'm loving the browns' new personality. Why do I have a sinking feeling it's all going to hell after holmgren decides to return to coaching?
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That's EXACTLY why the Browns didn't want Bryant. And I haven't forgotten about his "I ain't carrying the vets pads in training camp" either. I see a Randy Moss or Terrell Owens in my crystal ball for Dez.
Guys like McCoy, Hillis, and Fujita are the template for the types of players the Browns want on the team.
I agree and I'm loving the browns' new personality. Why do I have a sinking feeling it's all going to hell after holmgren decides to return to coaching?
I agree and I'm loving the browns' new personality. Why do I have a sinking feeling it's all going to hell after holmgren decides to return to coaching?
If he does, It will not be here. The front office is set up now so that the wheels will not fall off even if we have to change president.
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