3-4 Defense Examined
-
@ riffer: i agree that you can get a LB in two or three, just not one that's the quality that curry, maualuga, spikes or cushing are. the RBs that we'd get later maybe wouldn't be as complete as wells, but i'm not a believer that RBs need to be complete players to succeed. guys like purple jesus and LdT (before he broke down) are great, but they only come along about every five years or so, and i don't think that wells is that kind of back.
as far as a RB vs LB having more immediate impact, i think that's a philosophical difference. looking at the vikings, they were already a strong running team when they got purple jesus, and he put them over the top and transformed them into a great running team. had he gone to a bad running team, i don't think he'd have the success he does.
i will admit that we'd be a much better running team with a better RB.
however, if you look at what patrick willis did for san francisco, his presence alone changed that defense. he makes plays all over the field and changes games.
-
@shepwrite said:
If we end up drafting any lower than 5th, I'm thinking Curry's gone.Jacksonville just beat the Packers, which puts them at 5-9. As long as we stay ahead of Jax in the draft order, I think we have a very good chance of getting Curry.
-
@shepwrite said:
If we end up drafting any lower than 5th, I'm thinking Curry's gone.Jacksonville just beat the Packers, which puts them at 5-9. As long as we stay ahead of Jax in the draft order, I think we have a very good chance of getting Curry.
Aloysius said:
Jacksonville just beat the Packers, which puts them at 5-9. As long as we stay ahead of Jax in the draft order, I think we have a very good chance of getting Curry.I agree. There have only been 2 top 5 LBs in the past 10 years, and I doubt this year's this year's top 5 will make it past the QBs, O-line, and Crabtree. Of course, it's almost impossible to tell this far in advance. At least a handful of day one players will drop or move up a full round between now and Spring.
-
Aloysius said:
Thanks for linking to that, Al. The Mayock video is really interesting. Calling a prospect "the ultimate package" seems like pretty high praise.When you're talking about LBer prospects - you HAVE to like the versatile guys that offer enough flexibility to play in a 3-4 or a 4-3. A big reason for that is if you look at the NE Patriots they never switched to a 3-4 because they PREFERRED the scheme when they first went to it. The season they first made the switch they had to because of all the unexpected injuries to their dline at the time. Starters were injured on and off and Klecko, their rotation guy, got injured as well so they did a msterful job at problem solving their way into a very fortunate fate with the alignment change.
Curry looks like he can play in any scheme AND like he can play inside or outside. Watching those highlights you treated us to in the other thread Aloy - I saw GREAT first step instincts. The kind that prevent him from needing to tell the coach he got blocked or why he wasn't back in coverage. He's already showing the know-how to strip the ball from the ballcarrier pre-draft. This is just my opinion so I'm sure others won't agree but the LESS prerequisites you need to teach kids - the better their chances of success are at the next level.
While I think players can ALWAYS learn, I just don't think a Ray Lewis or Lawrence Taylor needed to be invented by a Coach. Marvin Lewis didn't MAKE Ray Lewis. Throw in your favorite legend and notice your great ones came blessed with instincts that seperated them from ordinary. I'm not saying coaching isn't important - I'm just saying you want the guys where you only need to do some fine tuning and they're flexible enough for any system. You always hear Ray Lewis plays fast and ironically a disappointing 40 time had him down near the 26th or 27th pick of round 1. That said, this is one guy you throw away the 40 yard dash significance in lieu of how fast he shows up frequently on film. If you got a scout that knows what the hell he's doing - he can only see "plays fast" on film. That's what the adorable highlights of Curry show us too. I don't care what he runs his forty in after watching the footage of him.
- Tom F. (I always have queer-eye for LBers and RBs)
Curry looks like he can play in any scheme AND like he can play inside or outside. Watching those highlights you treated us to in the other thread Aloy - I saw GREAT first step instincts. The kind that prevent him from needing to tell the coach he got blocked or why he wasn't back in coverage. He's already showing the know-how to strip the ball from the ballcarrier pre-draft. This is just my opinion so I'm sure others won't agree but the LESS prerequisites you need to teach kids - the better their chances of success are at the next level.
Great point, Tom. In this clip, Mayock talks about Curry's great instincts, how he "trusts what he sees." When I first saw Curry blow up that screen play in the Ole Miss game, I thought to myself, "Okay, this is the guy we need."
And you're right about him being good at stripping & recovering the ball. I love that play against Virginia where he grabs the running back, strips the ball with his right hand, then dives & cradles the ball with his left hand. Great stuff.
Even in games where he's been less than dominant this season (like the BC game), those talents have a way of popping up. He notched a bunch of tackles in that game, recovered a fumble, and tackled BC's QB so hard that he had to leave the game. And that was probably Curry's worst game of the season.
Another thing that hasn't been mentioned: because Curry plays 4-3 SLB, he's got a lot of experience covering TE's. For a while, it seemed like Leon Williams was going to develop into our athletic TE-covering linebacker, but he's regressed this year.
It's probably not a coincidence that two of our worst defensive performances this year involved TE's running through our defense (Jason Witten's 6 catches, 96 yards Week 1; Denver's two TE's combining for 7 catches, 142 yards & a TD Week 10).
Curry would help prevent those TE's from running through our defense. Though I don't think Maualuga's coverage issues are as bad as some have made them out to be, he probably wouldn't be able to do the same for our defense.
-
Curry looks like he can play in any scheme AND like he can play inside or outside. Watching those highlights you treated us to in the other thread Aloy - I saw GREAT first step instincts. The kind that prevent him from needing to tell the coach he got blocked or why he wasn't back in coverage. He's already showing the know-how to strip the ball from the ballcarrier pre-draft. This is just my opinion so I'm sure others won't agree but the LESS prerequisites you need to teach kids - the better their chances of success are at the next level.
Great point, Tom. In this clip, Mayock talks about Curry's great instincts, how he "trusts what he sees." When I first saw Curry blow up that screen play in the Ole Miss game, I thought to myself, "Okay, this is the guy we need."
And you're right about him being good at stripping & recovering the ball. I love that play against Virginia where he grabs the running back, strips the ball with his right hand, then dives & cradles the ball with his left hand. Great stuff.
Even in games where he's been less than dominant this season (like the BC game), those talents have a way of popping up. He notched a bunch of tackles in that game, recovered a fumble, and tackled BC's QB so hard that he had to leave the game. And that was probably Curry's worst game of the season.
Another thing that hasn't been mentioned: because Curry plays 4-3 SLB, he's got a lot of experience covering TE's. For a while, it seemed like Leon Williams was going to develop into our athletic TE-covering linebacker, but he's regressed this year.
It's probably not a coincidence that two of our worst defensive performances this year involved TE's running through our defense (Jason Witten's 6 catches, 96 yards Week 1; Denver's two TE's combining for 7 catches, 142 yards & a TD Week 10).
Curry would help prevent those TE's from running through our defense. Though I don't think Maualuga's coverage issues are as bad as some have made them out to be, he probably wouldn't be able to do the same for our defense.
Aloysius said:
Another thing that hasn't been mentioned: because Curry plays 4-3 SLB, he's got a lot of experience covering TE's. For a while, it seemed like Leon Williams was going to develop into our athletic TE-covering linebacker, but he's regressed this year.Thanks Aloy!
The thing about Leon Williams that jumps out at me is that his mental mistakes at Miami kept getting him yanked from the starting lineup. He's ambitious, works hard and hustles but does he have that first step instinct we're talking about? If he did, he would have remained a starter at Miami AND he could have become one here. He's a nice kid to have around for kick coverage teams but I doubt we'll ever teach him instinct for anything more.
I wouldn't have a problem with any of these 3 kids:
Rey, Curry or Taylor Mays (only if the first 2 are off the board though).
BTW, did you watch the 60 Minutes special on Pete Carroll last night? The highlight they showed of USC was a long interception return for a TD by Rey. It's not the same one I saw in his All American films BUT it certainly reassures his BIGTIME playmaking appeal. How many times do we see Ray Lewis taking interceptions for TDs? Right place + right time = Instincts we need. I want that guy that beats the intended receiver to the ball in his hook zone. If you're 1 step too slow - you're always tackling the guy after the catch. Curry shows me the same type of appeal. You've done a great job of showing us he needs to count in our first round consideration.
We need to be careful about getting too caught up in stats folks. Want an example? Steve Slaton. Who saw him coming? He's the type of guy that you break out the film on and see MORE than his stats will show you. Another example was Wali Rainer. Back when he played. people on our old board were upset his tackle volume didn't get recognized while they forgot to realize Corey Dillon always seemed to be closing in on 200 yards by the 3rd quarter on all the cutback runs crossing Wali's face. What I liked about Wali was he never gave up on a play so even though he rarely made tackles where we needed him to - he usually got the guy 20 yards down field on pursuit angles. Horrible football instincts but pursuit angles are COACHABLES that you can equip your non-instictive types with.
- Tom F.
-
something else that could help williams, a coachable, is to take the decision out of his hands. give him one assignment on a play and have him execute it. don't let him make the decision. the coach makes it, the player executes it. with his athletic ability, he can handle a task if he's sure of what he's supposed to do.
cover the tight end. blitz the b gap. those he can do.
watch where the play is going and get there. that he can't do.
of course, we're running the second.
-
I agree, JD. Leon showed some ability as a pass-rusher last year; IIRC, he had 3 sacks in the last two games of the season.
He doesn't have any special moves, but he's got the straight-line speed (4.54 40) necessary to get to the QB. I wish we would have given him some more opportunities to showcase those skills, possibly by moving him out to OLB.
I didn't watch the Carroll interview last night, Tom. But if you like LB's who make plays in coverage, you'll absolutely love Curry. Last year, he had 4 picks & returned 3 of them for TD's.
-
something else that could help williams, a coachable, is to take the decision out of his hands. give him one assignment on a play and have him execute it. don't let him make the decision. the coach makes it, the player executes it. with his athletic ability, he can handle a task if he's sure of what he's supposed to do.
cover the tight end. blitz the b gap. those he can do.
watch where the play is going and get there. that he can't do.
of course, we're running the second.
something else that could help williams, a coachable, is to take the decision out of his hands. give him one assignment on a play and have him execute it. don't let him make the decision. the coach makes it, the player executes it. with his athletic ability, he can handle a task if he's sure of what he's supposed to do.
cover the tight end. blitz the b gap. those he can do.
True but he cannot dictate run or pass from the opponent so if he's downfield covering a TE on a running play - he's exactly where the opponent wants him. Smart OC's are watching us on film and the guy with the best instincts out there is old enough for granchildren (Willie McGinest). Wimbley is supposed to be playing the (elephant) which is usually rush the passer BUT as we saw vrs Buffalo - he also has walkoff responsibilities which means we even want him thinking in terms of strong side vrs weakside. It's a waste of time to bring in guys that were deemed too stupid to stay on the field in college. Leon Williams was that guy. Not sure how someone thought it would be easier for him at the next level but they did. Not only that, but he came to a defensive scheme where LBers need to be smart and instinctive for that defense to succeed. Gotta believe there was better out there or we could have kept our STs ace Chaun Thompson. That guy used to make tackles on kickoffs at the opponent's 10 yard line and he was an animal blocking for Cribbs. If that's not enough, he weighs 260 poundsa, runs faster than every LBer except maybe Wimbley and would have been STRONG enough to man down an ILBer spot IMO.
I'm not sure who I want more between Curry and Rey but I've got a feeling we'll only have a shot at 1 of them and there isn't a bad choice there. I think Aloy has me leaning toward Curry all of a sudden. How does that happen? Seriously though, Wake Forrest plays their Bowl Game this Saturday so y'all got homework. We're gonna have a post game essay contest about the play of Curry. No penalties for bad spelling because that's gay. Since everyone HATES lengthy posts, let's see who provides the best substance in the least amount of space. We're all about the Cliff Notes. Aloy, you get to pick the winner. The name of the contest will be "Why Curry Needs to Wear a Browns' Uniform in 2009!"
- Tom F. (I miss all those 80s defenses that liked to play kill the guy with the ball! That was my favorite playground game as a kid. Today they play that game on computers as we wonder what happened to the art of tackling)
-
something else that could help williams, a coachable, is to take the decision out of his hands. give him one assignment on a play and have him execute it. don't let him make the decision. the coach makes it, the player executes it. with his athletic ability, he can handle a task if he's sure of what he's supposed to do.
cover the tight end. blitz the b gap. those he can do.
True but he cannot dictate run or pass from the opponent so if he's downfield covering a TE on a running play - he's exactly where the opponent wants him. Smart OC's are watching us on film and the guy with the best instincts out there is old enough for granchildren (Willie McGinest). Wimbley is supposed to be playing the (elephant) which is usually rush the passer BUT as we saw vrs Buffalo - he also has walkoff responsibilities which means we even want him thinking in terms of strong side vrs weakside. It's a waste of time to bring in guys that were deemed too stupid to stay on the field in college. Leon Williams was that guy. Not sure how someone thought it would be easier for him at the next level but they did. Not only that, but he came to a defensive scheme where LBers need to be smart and instinctive for that defense to succeed. Gotta believe there was better out there or we could have kept our STs ace Chaun Thompson. That guy used to make tackles on kickoffs at the opponent's 10 yard line and he was an animal blocking for Cribbs. If that's not enough, he weighs 260 poundsa, runs faster than every LBer except maybe Wimbley and would have been STRONG enough to man down an ILBer spot IMO.
I'm not sure who I want more between Curry and Rey but I've got a feeling we'll only have a shot at 1 of them and there isn't a bad choice there. I think Aloy has me leaning toward Curry all of a sudden. How does that happen? Seriously though, Wake Forrest plays their Bowl Game this Saturday so y'all got homework. We're gonna have a post game essay contest about the play of Curry. No penalties for bad spelling because that's gay. Since everyone HATES lengthy posts, let's see who provides the best substance in the least amount of space. We're all about the Cliff Notes. Aloy, you get to pick the winner. The name of the contest will be "Why Curry Needs to Wear a Browns' Uniform in 2009!"
- Tom F. (I miss all those 80s defenses that liked to play kill the guy with the ball! That was my favorite playground game as a kid. Today they play that game on computers as we wonder what happened to the art of tackling)
I'm not sure who I want more between Curry and Rey but I've got a feeling we'll only have a shot at 1 of them and there isn't a bad choice there. I think Aloy has me leaning toward Curry all of a sudden. How does that happen? Seriously though, Wake Forrest plays their Bowl Game this Saturday so y'all got homework. We're gonna have a post game essay contest about the play of Curry. No penalties for bad spelling because that's gay. Since everyone HATES lengthy posts, let's see who provides the best substance in the least amount of space. We're all about the Cliff Notes. Aloy, you get to pick the winner. The name of the contest will be "Why Curry Needs to Wear a Browns' Uniform in 2009!"
Ha. Sounds good to me.
-
even though having williams cover the TE might put him out of place, my point is that he can achieve a single task if all he has to do is use his physical abilities to succeed. it's the coaches' responsibility to call the right plays to make that happen, to know the opponents' tendencies and make the right calls to counteract them. if he's out of place on a running play because he's in pass coverage, that's the coaches' fault.
and although wake plays saturday, there's likely no way i'm watching. the game's on at 8 AM here, and that's too early to get up on a saturday. i'm out of the essay contest. but spelling and grammar should count. i'm an editor at my day job. yes, i'm that guy.
-
Ha. I'm kinda that guy (do editing work, though not professionally), so I can understand wanting people to actually write in complete, semi-coherent sentences.
And about the game: if you can, DVR it & fast forward through the boring parts, like whenever Wake Forest's offense is on the field.
-
even though having williams cover the TE might put him out of place, my point is that he can achieve a single task if all he has to do is use his physical abilities to succeed. it's the coaches' responsibility to call the right plays to make that happen, to know the opponents' tendencies and make the right calls to counteract them. if he's out of place on a running play because he's in pass coverage, that's the coaches' fault.
and although wake plays saturday, there's likely no way i'm watching. the game's on at 8 AM here, and that's too early to get up on a saturday. i'm out of the essay contest. but spelling and grammar should count. i'm an editor at my day job. yes, i'm that guy.
even though having williams cover the TE might put him out of place, my point is that he can achieve a single task if all he has to do is use his physical abilities to succeed. it's the coaches' responsibility to call the right plays to make that happen, to know the opponents' tendencies and make the right calls to counteract them. if he's out of place on a running play because he's in pass coverage, that's the coaches' fault.
and although wake plays saturday, there's likely no way i'm watching. the game's on at 8 AM here, and that's too early to get up on a saturday. i'm out of the essay contest. but spelling and grammar should count. i'm an editor at my day job. yes, i'm that guy.
LOL! Thatta boy! Maybe you can tape the game JD.
I'm stubborn about LBers because it's almost like the RB position with your instinctive guys being your best. I still feel you either have it or you don't. I'm not saying there aren't any cases of guys being coached into solid LBers. I'm sure there's examples of that people can dig up.
I hate thinking we've got guys not anywhere near as smart as high school kids I've coached trying to look the part of an NFL 3-4. We shouldn't NEED our coaches to put game plans together to minimize the LBer position in a 3-4. If they gotta do that, we've got the wrong the wrong personnel for that alignment and scheme. Pittsburgh has 1 OLBer that has about 15 sacks while the other has about 11.5 with 2 weeks to go. The guy that LEFT their lineup for Miami has 17.5 sacks right now. THOSE are LBers. That said, I've seen Joey Porter cover KWII pretty freakin good when the only seperation Winslow got was from a "take your seat" stiff arm.
Let me ask - were any of these guys any less than Super their last year or 2 before the NFL draft? Lawrence Taylor? Wilber Marshall? Mike Singeltary? Ken Norton Jr? Chip Banks? Clay Matthews? Derrick Thomas? Cornelius Bennett? Ray Lewis? Derrick Brooks? LaMar Woodley? Willie McGinest? Shane Conlin? Keith Brooking? Keith Bulluck? Shawne Merriman? Peter Boulware? Brad Van Pelt? Jerod Mayo? How about Brian Urlacher never even playing LBer in college and walking right in to earn himself NFC Rookie of the Year as a MLBer? He had some GREAT girth in front of him as a rookie BUT so the blocking on him was minimal BUT another reason it was minimized was the guy has GREAT instincts where his first steps get him where he needs to be before blockers can engage. His coaching staff doesn't have to sit there and ask themselves how can we strategize for this week's opponent so Brian doesn't have to think. They do that and they got the wrong the LBer JD. See where I'm coming from?
Has anyone seen that Timmons kid play lately? Holy snappen arsens! Dude gets places in a hurry and lays some lumber. That's prolly my biggest beef with our franchise right now. I see STUDS coming and going from the LBer position on our biggest rival and they don't skip a beat. In fact, this might be their best defensive year in a long time. Meanwhile, we're right back to square one at the LBer position for a team that decided the 3-4 was going to be their key to success. Not for nothing, but how many of our starting LBers could even MAKE Baltimore's team or Pittsburgh's team right now? Cowher or Marty should have already been hired.
- Tom F. (Yesterday marked the first time I've ever fallen asleep in the 1st quarter of a Browns' game. How often do you experience nightmares BEFORE you go to sleep?)
-
I dont know anything about Wells' ankles, but there are genetic factors that can significantly increase the probability of injuries in certain joints and make the healing process more difficult. Just ask my knees.
-
On the topic of RB, I'd take our current Smash and Dash (JLew & Harrison) over our our current defensive front seven any day.
Get a RB later in the draft or through FA. We need playmakers in the front seven unlike anything else. I'd spend my first two draft picks on the front seven.
-
@ flugel: you're right that we shouldn't need a scheme to minimize our LB play entirely. some of our guys have good instincts. d'qwell is one. so is hall. davis is another. davis' physical limitations, however, completely handicap him, and hall still has a lot to learn.
leon williams, however, is a numbskull. urlacher has instincts, as do the other guys you listed (derrick thomas, bouleware, ray lewis, ken norton, singletary). those are guys you can ask to do anything and they'll do it well. williams isn't. all he has are physical tools, and a good coach would recognize that and play to his strengths instead of asking him to do something he can't.
joey porter, however, is purely a 3-4 rush linebacker, and has only had success in miami now that matt roth's come on opposite him. his first year there, people were talking about what a huge bust he was.
pittsburgh routinely scouts great linebackers, but their scheme also goes a long way towards determining their success. it really takes both to have a great D, and they always do.
conversely, a shitty scheme can negate a player's talent (not entirely, but it can flatten him out). then again, some guys are role players and some are superstars. williams is definitely a role player at best.
we have some talent at the position. hall can play. d'qwell can play. i'm still not ready to chalk up wimbley as a complete bust yet. i think he can have some success in a better scheme. if they're put in a position to have success, they might. it's just not happening at all right now.
-
@ flugel: you're right that we shouldn't need a scheme to minimize our LB play entirely. some of our guys have good instincts. d'qwell is one. so is hall. davis is another. davis' physical limitations, however, completely handicap him, and hall still has a lot to learn.
leon williams, however, is a numbskull. urlacher has instincts, as do the other guys you listed (derrick thomas, bouleware, ray lewis, ken norton, singletary). those are guys you can ask to do anything and they'll do it well. williams isn't. all he has are physical tools, and a good coach would recognize that and play to his strengths instead of asking him to do something he can't.
joey porter, however, is purely a 3-4 rush linebacker, and has only had success in miami now that matt roth's come on opposite him. his first year there, people were talking about what a huge bust he was.
pittsburgh routinely scouts great linebackers, but their scheme also goes a long way towards determining their success. it really takes both to have a great D, and they always do.
conversely, a shitty scheme can negate a player's talent (not entirely, but it can flatten him out). then again, some guys are role players and some are superstars. williams is definitely a role player at best.
we have some talent at the position. hall can play. d'qwell can play. i'm still not ready to chalk up wimbley as a complete bust yet. i think he can have some success in a better scheme. if they're put in a position to have success, they might. it's just not happening at all right now.
@ flugel: you're right that we shouldn't need a scheme to minimize our LB play entirely. some of our guys have good instincts. d'qwell is one. so is hall. davis is another. davis' physical limitations, however, completely handicap him, and hall still has a lot to learn.
leon williams, however, is a numbskull. urlacher has instincts, as do the other guys you listed (derrick thomas, bouleware, ray lewis, ken norton, singletary). those are guys you can ask to do anything and they'll do it well. williams isn't. all he has are physical tools, and a good coach would recognize that and play to his strengths instead of asking him to do something he can't.
joey porter, however, is purely a 3-4 rush linebacker, and has only had success in miami now that matt roth's come on opposite him. his first year there, people were talking about what a huge bust he was.
pittsburgh routinely scouts great linebackers, but their scheme also goes a long way towards determining their success. it really takes both to have a great D, and they always do.
conversely, a shitty scheme can negate a player's talent (not entirely, but it can flatten him out). then again, some guys are role players and some are superstars. williams is definitely a role player at best.
we have some talent at the position. hall can play. d'qwell can play. i'm still not ready to chalk up wimbley as a complete bust yet. i think he can have some success in a better scheme. if they're put in a position to have success, they might. it's just not happening at all right now.
Some very good points made JD. The thing about Roth is he played college with a hand down like Mike Vrable did but he's got the intincts that made switching him easy. Pittsburgh drafted an OSU kid in the last round a few years ago because he could bench press cars and he put up good stats with a hand down; BUT he wasn't instinctive enough to make the change to stay on the team. His name escapes me but he was one of those hard working types you like to see make it but he didn't.
I'm still unsure about D'Qwell. Everytime I pay him a compliment for a good game. I have to wait abbout 5-6 weeks for the next time I can do so. Maybe that's coaching but I think some of it is bad instincts. He hustles alot to compensate for bad first steps and the only time I saw him guessing right alot on the first step was in Nashville.
- Tom F.
-
@ flugel: you're right that we shouldn't need a scheme to minimize our LB play entirely. some of our guys have good instincts. d'qwell is one. so is hall. davis is another. davis' physical limitations, however, completely handicap him, and hall still has a lot to learn.
leon williams, however, is a numbskull. urlacher has instincts, as do the other guys you listed (derrick thomas, bouleware, ray lewis, ken norton, singletary). those are guys you can ask to do anything and they'll do it well. williams isn't. all he has are physical tools, and a good coach would recognize that and play to his strengths instead of asking him to do something he can't.
joey porter, however, is purely a 3-4 rush linebacker, and has only had success in miami now that matt roth's come on opposite him. his first year there, people were talking about what a huge bust he was.
pittsburgh routinely scouts great linebackers, but their scheme also goes a long way towards determining their success. it really takes both to have a great D, and they always do.
conversely, a shitty scheme can negate a player's talent (not entirely, but it can flatten him out). then again, some guys are role players and some are superstars. williams is definitely a role player at best.
we have some talent at the position. hall can play. d'qwell can play. i'm still not ready to chalk up wimbley as a complete bust yet. i think he can have some success in a better scheme. if they're put in a position to have success, they might. it's just not happening at all right now.
Some very good points made JD. The thing about Roth is he played college with a hand down like Mike Vrable did but he's got the intincts that made switching him easy. Pittsburgh drafted an OSU kid in the last round a few years ago because he could bench press cars and he put up good stats with a hand down; BUT he wasn't instinctive enough to make the change to stay on the team. His name escapes me but he was one of those hard working types you like to see make it but he didn't.
I'm still unsure about D'Qwell. Everytime I pay him a compliment for a good game. I have to wait abbout 5-6 weeks for the next time I can do so. Maybe that's coaching but I think some of it is bad instincts. He hustles alot to compensate for bad first steps and the only time I saw him guessing right alot on the first step was in Nashville.
- Tom F.
Some very good points made JD. The thing about Roth is he played college with a hand down like Mike Vrable did but he's got the intincts that made switching him easy. Pittsburgh drafted an OSU kid in the last round a few years ago because he could bench press cars and he put up good stats with a hand down; BUT he wasn't instinctive enough to make the change to stay on the team. His name escapes me but he was one of those hard working types you like to see make it but he didn't.
I'm still unsure about D'Qwell. Everytime I pay him a compliment for a good game. I have to wait abbout 5-6 weeks for the next time I can do so. Maybe that's coaching but I think some of it is bad instincts. He hustles alot to compensate for bad first steps and the only time I saw him guessing right alot on the first step was in Nashville.
- Tom F.
Mike Kudla
-
even though having williams cover the TE might put him out of place, my point is that he can achieve a single task if all he has to do is use his physical abilities to succeed. it's the coaches' responsibility to call the right plays to make that happen, to know the opponents' tendencies and make the right calls to counteract them. if he's out of place on a running play because he's in pass coverage, that's the coaches' fault.
and although wake plays saturday, there's likely no way i'm watching. the game's on at 8 AM here, and that's too early to get up on a saturday. i'm out of the essay contest. but spelling and grammar should count. i'm an editor at my day job. yes, i'm that guy.
LOL! Thatta boy! Maybe you can tape the game JD.
I'm stubborn about LBers because it's almost like the RB position with your instinctive guys being your best. I still feel you either have it or you don't. I'm not saying there aren't any cases of guys being coached into solid LBers. I'm sure there's examples of that people can dig up.
I hate thinking we've got guys not anywhere near as smart as high school kids I've coached trying to look the part of an NFL 3-4. We shouldn't NEED our coaches to put game plans together to minimize the LBer position in a 3-4. If they gotta do that, we've got the wrong the wrong personnel for that alignment and scheme. Pittsburgh has 1 OLBer that has about 15 sacks while the other has about 11.5 with 2 weeks to go. The guy that LEFT their lineup for Miami has 17.5 sacks right now. THOSE are LBers. That said, I've seen Joey Porter cover KWII pretty freakin good when the only seperation Winslow got was from a "take your seat" stiff arm.
Let me ask - were any of these guys any less than Super their last year or 2 before the NFL draft? Lawrence Taylor? Wilber Marshall? Mike Singeltary? Ken Norton Jr? Chip Banks? Clay Matthews? Derrick Thomas? Cornelius Bennett? Ray Lewis? Derrick Brooks? LaMar Woodley? Willie McGinest? Shane Conlin? Keith Brooking? Keith Bulluck? Shawne Merriman? Peter Boulware? Brad Van Pelt? Jerod Mayo? How about Brian Urlacher never even playing LBer in college and walking right in to earn himself NFC Rookie of the Year as a MLBer? He had some GREAT girth in front of him as a rookie BUT so the blocking on him was minimal BUT another reason it was minimized was the guy has GREAT instincts where his first steps get him where he needs to be before blockers can engage. His coaching staff doesn't have to sit there and ask themselves how can we strategize for this week's opponent so Brian doesn't have to think. They do that and they got the wrong the LBer JD. See where I'm coming from?
Has anyone seen that Timmons kid play lately? Holy snappen arsens! Dude gets places in a hurry and lays some lumber. That's prolly my biggest beef with our franchise right now. I see STUDS coming and going from the LBer position on our biggest rival and they don't skip a beat. In fact, this might be their best defensive year in a long time. Meanwhile, we're right back to square one at the LBer position for a team that decided the 3-4 was going to be their key to success. Not for nothing, but how many of our starting LBers could even MAKE Baltimore's team or Pittsburgh's team right now? Cowher or Marty should have already been hired.
- Tom F. (Yesterday marked the first time I've ever fallen asleep in the 1st quarter of a Browns' game. How often do you experience nightmares BEFORE you go to sleep?)
LOL! Thatta boy! Maybe you can tape the game JD.
I'm stubborn about LBers because it's almost like the RB position with your instinctive guys being your best. I still feel you either have it or you don't. I'm not saying there aren't any cases of guys being coached into solid LBers. I'm sure there's examples of that people can dig up.
I hate thinking we've got guys not anywhere near as smart as high school kids I've coached trying to look the part of an NFL 3-4. We shouldn't NEED our coaches to put game plans together to minimize the LBer position in a 3-4. If they gotta do that, we've got the wrong the wrong personnel for that alignment and scheme. Pittsburgh has 1 OLBer that has about 15 sacks while the other has about 11.5 with 2 weeks to go. The guy that LEFT their lineup for Miami has 17.5 sacks right now. THOSE are LBers. That said, I've seen Joey Porter cover KWII pretty freakin good when the only seperation Winslow got was from a "take your seat" stiff arm.
Let me ask - were any of these guys any less than Super their last year or 2 before the NFL draft? Lawrence Taylor? Wilber Marshall? Mike Singeltary? Ken Norton Jr? Chip Banks? Clay Matthews? Derrick Thomas? Cornelius Bennett? Ray Lewis? Derrick Brooks? LaMar Woodley? Willie McGinest? Shane Conlin? Keith Brooking? Keith Bulluck? Shawne Merriman? Peter Boulware? Brad Van Pelt? Jerod Mayo? How about Brian Urlacher never even playing LBer in college and walking right in to earn himself NFC Rookie of the Year as a MLBer? He had some GREAT girth in front of him as a rookie BUT so the blocking on him was minimal BUT another reason it was minimized was the guy has GREAT instincts where his first steps get him where he needs to be before blockers can engage. His coaching staff doesn't have to sit there and ask themselves how can we strategize for this week's opponent so Brian doesn't have to think. They do that and they got the wrong the LBer JD. See where I'm coming from?
Has anyone seen that Timmons kid play lately? Holy snappen arsens! Dude gets places in a hurry and lays some lumber. That's prolly my biggest beef with our franchise right now. I see STUDS coming and going from the LBer position on our biggest rival and they don't skip a beat. In fact, this might be their best defensive year in a long time. Meanwhile, we're right back to square one at the LBer position for a team that decided the 3-4 was going to be their key to success. Not for nothing, but how many of our starting LBers could even MAKE Baltimore's team or Pittsburgh's team right now? Cowher or Marty should have already been hired.
- Tom F. (Yesterday marked the first time I've ever fallen asleep in the 1st quarter of a Browns' game. How often do you experience nightmares BEFORE you go to sleep?)
LOL! Thatta boy! Maybe you can tape the game JD.
I'm stubborn about LBers because it's almost like the RB position with your instinctive guys being your best. I still feel you either have it or you don't. I'm not saying there aren't any cases of guys being coached into solid LBers. I'm sure there's examples of that people can dig up.
Great point... You can get great RB's later in the draft imo but LB? not unless you are real lucky! I still want REY!
-
i would think it speaks well of d'qwell that he's learning, though. when guys start guessing right late in the season, it could mean the light's coming on for them and that they've learned from what they've seen throughout the year and are beginning to apply it.
.jpg.a1a2b9a0c33008fdaf4097d8fe2cfd64.jpg "Riffer X"){kind=avatar}
Hello! It looks like you're interested in this conversation, but you don't have an account yet.
Getting fed up of having to scroll through the same posts each visit? When you register for an account, you'll always come back to exactly where you were before, and choose to be notified of new replies (either via email, or push notification). You'll also be able to save bookmarks and upvote posts to show your appreciation to other community members.
With your input, this post could be even better 💗
Register Login