3-4 Defense Examined
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something else that could help williams, a coachable, is to take the decision out of his hands. give him one assignment on a play and have him execute it. don't let him make the decision. the coach makes it, the player executes it. with his athletic ability, he can handle a task if he's sure of what he's supposed to do.
cover the tight end. blitz the b gap. those he can do.
True but he cannot dictate run or pass from the opponent so if he's downfield covering a TE on a running play - he's exactly where the opponent wants him. Smart OC's are watching us on film and the guy with the best instincts out there is old enough for granchildren (Willie McGinest). Wimbley is supposed to be playing the (elephant) which is usually rush the passer BUT as we saw vrs Buffalo - he also has walkoff responsibilities which means we even want him thinking in terms of strong side vrs weakside. It's a waste of time to bring in guys that were deemed too stupid to stay on the field in college. Leon Williams was that guy. Not sure how someone thought it would be easier for him at the next level but they did. Not only that, but he came to a defensive scheme where LBers need to be smart and instinctive for that defense to succeed. Gotta believe there was better out there or we could have kept our STs ace Chaun Thompson. That guy used to make tackles on kickoffs at the opponent's 10 yard line and he was an animal blocking for Cribbs. If that's not enough, he weighs 260 poundsa, runs faster than every LBer except maybe Wimbley and would have been STRONG enough to man down an ILBer spot IMO.
I'm not sure who I want more between Curry and Rey but I've got a feeling we'll only have a shot at 1 of them and there isn't a bad choice there. I think Aloy has me leaning toward Curry all of a sudden. How does that happen? Seriously though, Wake Forrest plays their Bowl Game this Saturday so y'all got homework. We're gonna have a post game essay contest about the play of Curry. No penalties for bad spelling because that's gay. Since everyone HATES lengthy posts, let's see who provides the best substance in the least amount of space. We're all about the Cliff Notes. Aloy, you get to pick the winner. The name of the contest will be "Why Curry Needs to Wear a Browns' Uniform in 2009!"
- Tom F. (I miss all those 80s defenses that liked to play kill the guy with the ball! That was my favorite playground game as a kid. Today they play that game on computers as we wonder what happened to the art of tackling)
I'm not sure who I want more between Curry and Rey but I've got a feeling we'll only have a shot at 1 of them and there isn't a bad choice there. I think Aloy has me leaning toward Curry all of a sudden. How does that happen? Seriously though, Wake Forrest plays their Bowl Game this Saturday so y'all got homework. We're gonna have a post game essay contest about the play of Curry. No penalties for bad spelling because that's gay. Since everyone HATES lengthy posts, let's see who provides the best substance in the least amount of space. We're all about the Cliff Notes. Aloy, you get to pick the winner. The name of the contest will be "Why Curry Needs to Wear a Browns' Uniform in 2009!"
Ha. Sounds good to me.
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even though having williams cover the TE might put him out of place, my point is that he can achieve a single task if all he has to do is use his physical abilities to succeed. it's the coaches' responsibility to call the right plays to make that happen, to know the opponents' tendencies and make the right calls to counteract them. if he's out of place on a running play because he's in pass coverage, that's the coaches' fault.
and although wake plays saturday, there's likely no way i'm watching. the game's on at 8 AM here, and that's too early to get up on a saturday. i'm out of the essay contest. but spelling and grammar should count. i'm an editor at my day job. yes, i'm that guy.
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Ha. I'm kinda that guy (do editing work, though not professionally), so I can understand wanting people to actually write in complete, semi-coherent sentences.
And about the game: if you can, DVR it & fast forward through the boring parts, like whenever Wake Forest's offense is on the field.
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even though having williams cover the TE might put him out of place, my point is that he can achieve a single task if all he has to do is use his physical abilities to succeed. it's the coaches' responsibility to call the right plays to make that happen, to know the opponents' tendencies and make the right calls to counteract them. if he's out of place on a running play because he's in pass coverage, that's the coaches' fault.
and although wake plays saturday, there's likely no way i'm watching. the game's on at 8 AM here, and that's too early to get up on a saturday. i'm out of the essay contest. but spelling and grammar should count. i'm an editor at my day job. yes, i'm that guy.
even though having williams cover the TE might put him out of place, my point is that he can achieve a single task if all he has to do is use his physical abilities to succeed. it's the coaches' responsibility to call the right plays to make that happen, to know the opponents' tendencies and make the right calls to counteract them. if he's out of place on a running play because he's in pass coverage, that's the coaches' fault.
and although wake plays saturday, there's likely no way i'm watching. the game's on at 8 AM here, and that's too early to get up on a saturday. i'm out of the essay contest. but spelling and grammar should count. i'm an editor at my day job. yes, i'm that guy.
LOL! Thatta boy! Maybe you can tape the game JD.
I'm stubborn about LBers because it's almost like the RB position with your instinctive guys being your best. I still feel you either have it or you don't. I'm not saying there aren't any cases of guys being coached into solid LBers. I'm sure there's examples of that people can dig up.
I hate thinking we've got guys not anywhere near as smart as high school kids I've coached trying to look the part of an NFL 3-4. We shouldn't NEED our coaches to put game plans together to minimize the LBer position in a 3-4. If they gotta do that, we've got the wrong the wrong personnel for that alignment and scheme. Pittsburgh has 1 OLBer that has about 15 sacks while the other has about 11.5 with 2 weeks to go. The guy that LEFT their lineup for Miami has 17.5 sacks right now. THOSE are LBers. That said, I've seen Joey Porter cover KWII pretty freakin good when the only seperation Winslow got was from a "take your seat" stiff arm.
Let me ask - were any of these guys any less than Super their last year or 2 before the NFL draft? Lawrence Taylor? Wilber Marshall? Mike Singeltary? Ken Norton Jr? Chip Banks? Clay Matthews? Derrick Thomas? Cornelius Bennett? Ray Lewis? Derrick Brooks? LaMar Woodley? Willie McGinest? Shane Conlin? Keith Brooking? Keith Bulluck? Shawne Merriman? Peter Boulware? Brad Van Pelt? Jerod Mayo? How about Brian Urlacher never even playing LBer in college and walking right in to earn himself NFC Rookie of the Year as a MLBer? He had some GREAT girth in front of him as a rookie BUT so the blocking on him was minimal BUT another reason it was minimized was the guy has GREAT instincts where his first steps get him where he needs to be before blockers can engage. His coaching staff doesn't have to sit there and ask themselves how can we strategize for this week's opponent so Brian doesn't have to think. They do that and they got the wrong the LBer JD. See where I'm coming from?
Has anyone seen that Timmons kid play lately? Holy snappen arsens! Dude gets places in a hurry and lays some lumber. That's prolly my biggest beef with our franchise right now. I see STUDS coming and going from the LBer position on our biggest rival and they don't skip a beat. In fact, this might be their best defensive year in a long time. Meanwhile, we're right back to square one at the LBer position for a team that decided the 3-4 was going to be their key to success. Not for nothing, but how many of our starting LBers could even MAKE Baltimore's team or Pittsburgh's team right now? Cowher or Marty should have already been hired.
- Tom F. (Yesterday marked the first time I've ever fallen asleep in the 1st quarter of a Browns' game. How often do you experience nightmares BEFORE you go to sleep?)
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I dont know anything about Wells' ankles, but there are genetic factors that can significantly increase the probability of injuries in certain joints and make the healing process more difficult. Just ask my knees.
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On the topic of RB, I'd take our current Smash and Dash (JLew & Harrison) over our our current defensive front seven any day.
Get a RB later in the draft or through FA. We need playmakers in the front seven unlike anything else. I'd spend my first two draft picks on the front seven.
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@ flugel: you're right that we shouldn't need a scheme to minimize our LB play entirely. some of our guys have good instincts. d'qwell is one. so is hall. davis is another. davis' physical limitations, however, completely handicap him, and hall still has a lot to learn.
leon williams, however, is a numbskull. urlacher has instincts, as do the other guys you listed (derrick thomas, bouleware, ray lewis, ken norton, singletary). those are guys you can ask to do anything and they'll do it well. williams isn't. all he has are physical tools, and a good coach would recognize that and play to his strengths instead of asking him to do something he can't.
joey porter, however, is purely a 3-4 rush linebacker, and has only had success in miami now that matt roth's come on opposite him. his first year there, people were talking about what a huge bust he was.
pittsburgh routinely scouts great linebackers, but their scheme also goes a long way towards determining their success. it really takes both to have a great D, and they always do.
conversely, a shitty scheme can negate a player's talent (not entirely, but it can flatten him out). then again, some guys are role players and some are superstars. williams is definitely a role player at best.
we have some talent at the position. hall can play. d'qwell can play. i'm still not ready to chalk up wimbley as a complete bust yet. i think he can have some success in a better scheme. if they're put in a position to have success, they might. it's just not happening at all right now.
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@ flugel: you're right that we shouldn't need a scheme to minimize our LB play entirely. some of our guys have good instincts. d'qwell is one. so is hall. davis is another. davis' physical limitations, however, completely handicap him, and hall still has a lot to learn.
leon williams, however, is a numbskull. urlacher has instincts, as do the other guys you listed (derrick thomas, bouleware, ray lewis, ken norton, singletary). those are guys you can ask to do anything and they'll do it well. williams isn't. all he has are physical tools, and a good coach would recognize that and play to his strengths instead of asking him to do something he can't.
joey porter, however, is purely a 3-4 rush linebacker, and has only had success in miami now that matt roth's come on opposite him. his first year there, people were talking about what a huge bust he was.
pittsburgh routinely scouts great linebackers, but their scheme also goes a long way towards determining their success. it really takes both to have a great D, and they always do.
conversely, a shitty scheme can negate a player's talent (not entirely, but it can flatten him out). then again, some guys are role players and some are superstars. williams is definitely a role player at best.
we have some talent at the position. hall can play. d'qwell can play. i'm still not ready to chalk up wimbley as a complete bust yet. i think he can have some success in a better scheme. if they're put in a position to have success, they might. it's just not happening at all right now.
@ flugel: you're right that we shouldn't need a scheme to minimize our LB play entirely. some of our guys have good instincts. d'qwell is one. so is hall. davis is another. davis' physical limitations, however, completely handicap him, and hall still has a lot to learn.
leon williams, however, is a numbskull. urlacher has instincts, as do the other guys you listed (derrick thomas, bouleware, ray lewis, ken norton, singletary). those are guys you can ask to do anything and they'll do it well. williams isn't. all he has are physical tools, and a good coach would recognize that and play to his strengths instead of asking him to do something he can't.
joey porter, however, is purely a 3-4 rush linebacker, and has only had success in miami now that matt roth's come on opposite him. his first year there, people were talking about what a huge bust he was.
pittsburgh routinely scouts great linebackers, but their scheme also goes a long way towards determining their success. it really takes both to have a great D, and they always do.
conversely, a shitty scheme can negate a player's talent (not entirely, but it can flatten him out). then again, some guys are role players and some are superstars. williams is definitely a role player at best.
we have some talent at the position. hall can play. d'qwell can play. i'm still not ready to chalk up wimbley as a complete bust yet. i think he can have some success in a better scheme. if they're put in a position to have success, they might. it's just not happening at all right now.
Some very good points made JD. The thing about Roth is he played college with a hand down like Mike Vrable did but he's got the intincts that made switching him easy. Pittsburgh drafted an OSU kid in the last round a few years ago because he could bench press cars and he put up good stats with a hand down; BUT he wasn't instinctive enough to make the change to stay on the team. His name escapes me but he was one of those hard working types you like to see make it but he didn't.
I'm still unsure about D'Qwell. Everytime I pay him a compliment for a good game. I have to wait abbout 5-6 weeks for the next time I can do so. Maybe that's coaching but I think some of it is bad instincts. He hustles alot to compensate for bad first steps and the only time I saw him guessing right alot on the first step was in Nashville.
- Tom F.
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@ flugel: you're right that we shouldn't need a scheme to minimize our LB play entirely. some of our guys have good instincts. d'qwell is one. so is hall. davis is another. davis' physical limitations, however, completely handicap him, and hall still has a lot to learn.
leon williams, however, is a numbskull. urlacher has instincts, as do the other guys you listed (derrick thomas, bouleware, ray lewis, ken norton, singletary). those are guys you can ask to do anything and they'll do it well. williams isn't. all he has are physical tools, and a good coach would recognize that and play to his strengths instead of asking him to do something he can't.
joey porter, however, is purely a 3-4 rush linebacker, and has only had success in miami now that matt roth's come on opposite him. his first year there, people were talking about what a huge bust he was.
pittsburgh routinely scouts great linebackers, but their scheme also goes a long way towards determining their success. it really takes both to have a great D, and they always do.
conversely, a shitty scheme can negate a player's talent (not entirely, but it can flatten him out). then again, some guys are role players and some are superstars. williams is definitely a role player at best.
we have some talent at the position. hall can play. d'qwell can play. i'm still not ready to chalk up wimbley as a complete bust yet. i think he can have some success in a better scheme. if they're put in a position to have success, they might. it's just not happening at all right now.
Some very good points made JD. The thing about Roth is he played college with a hand down like Mike Vrable did but he's got the intincts that made switching him easy. Pittsburgh drafted an OSU kid in the last round a few years ago because he could bench press cars and he put up good stats with a hand down; BUT he wasn't instinctive enough to make the change to stay on the team. His name escapes me but he was one of those hard working types you like to see make it but he didn't.
I'm still unsure about D'Qwell. Everytime I pay him a compliment for a good game. I have to wait abbout 5-6 weeks for the next time I can do so. Maybe that's coaching but I think some of it is bad instincts. He hustles alot to compensate for bad first steps and the only time I saw him guessing right alot on the first step was in Nashville.
- Tom F.
Some very good points made JD. The thing about Roth is he played college with a hand down like Mike Vrable did but he's got the intincts that made switching him easy. Pittsburgh drafted an OSU kid in the last round a few years ago because he could bench press cars and he put up good stats with a hand down; BUT he wasn't instinctive enough to make the change to stay on the team. His name escapes me but he was one of those hard working types you like to see make it but he didn't.
I'm still unsure about D'Qwell. Everytime I pay him a compliment for a good game. I have to wait abbout 5-6 weeks for the next time I can do so. Maybe that's coaching but I think some of it is bad instincts. He hustles alot to compensate for bad first steps and the only time I saw him guessing right alot on the first step was in Nashville.
- Tom F.
Mike Kudla
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even though having williams cover the TE might put him out of place, my point is that he can achieve a single task if all he has to do is use his physical abilities to succeed. it's the coaches' responsibility to call the right plays to make that happen, to know the opponents' tendencies and make the right calls to counteract them. if he's out of place on a running play because he's in pass coverage, that's the coaches' fault.
and although wake plays saturday, there's likely no way i'm watching. the game's on at 8 AM here, and that's too early to get up on a saturday. i'm out of the essay contest. but spelling and grammar should count. i'm an editor at my day job. yes, i'm that guy.
LOL! Thatta boy! Maybe you can tape the game JD.
I'm stubborn about LBers because it's almost like the RB position with your instinctive guys being your best. I still feel you either have it or you don't. I'm not saying there aren't any cases of guys being coached into solid LBers. I'm sure there's examples of that people can dig up.
I hate thinking we've got guys not anywhere near as smart as high school kids I've coached trying to look the part of an NFL 3-4. We shouldn't NEED our coaches to put game plans together to minimize the LBer position in a 3-4. If they gotta do that, we've got the wrong the wrong personnel for that alignment and scheme. Pittsburgh has 1 OLBer that has about 15 sacks while the other has about 11.5 with 2 weeks to go. The guy that LEFT their lineup for Miami has 17.5 sacks right now. THOSE are LBers. That said, I've seen Joey Porter cover KWII pretty freakin good when the only seperation Winslow got was from a "take your seat" stiff arm.
Let me ask - were any of these guys any less than Super their last year or 2 before the NFL draft? Lawrence Taylor? Wilber Marshall? Mike Singeltary? Ken Norton Jr? Chip Banks? Clay Matthews? Derrick Thomas? Cornelius Bennett? Ray Lewis? Derrick Brooks? LaMar Woodley? Willie McGinest? Shane Conlin? Keith Brooking? Keith Bulluck? Shawne Merriman? Peter Boulware? Brad Van Pelt? Jerod Mayo? How about Brian Urlacher never even playing LBer in college and walking right in to earn himself NFC Rookie of the Year as a MLBer? He had some GREAT girth in front of him as a rookie BUT so the blocking on him was minimal BUT another reason it was minimized was the guy has GREAT instincts where his first steps get him where he needs to be before blockers can engage. His coaching staff doesn't have to sit there and ask themselves how can we strategize for this week's opponent so Brian doesn't have to think. They do that and they got the wrong the LBer JD. See where I'm coming from?
Has anyone seen that Timmons kid play lately? Holy snappen arsens! Dude gets places in a hurry and lays some lumber. That's prolly my biggest beef with our franchise right now. I see STUDS coming and going from the LBer position on our biggest rival and they don't skip a beat. In fact, this might be their best defensive year in a long time. Meanwhile, we're right back to square one at the LBer position for a team that decided the 3-4 was going to be their key to success. Not for nothing, but how many of our starting LBers could even MAKE Baltimore's team or Pittsburgh's team right now? Cowher or Marty should have already been hired.
- Tom F. (Yesterday marked the first time I've ever fallen asleep in the 1st quarter of a Browns' game. How often do you experience nightmares BEFORE you go to sleep?)
LOL! Thatta boy! Maybe you can tape the game JD.
I'm stubborn about LBers because it's almost like the RB position with your instinctive guys being your best. I still feel you either have it or you don't. I'm not saying there aren't any cases of guys being coached into solid LBers. I'm sure there's examples of that people can dig up.
I hate thinking we've got guys not anywhere near as smart as high school kids I've coached trying to look the part of an NFL 3-4. We shouldn't NEED our coaches to put game plans together to minimize the LBer position in a 3-4. If they gotta do that, we've got the wrong the wrong personnel for that alignment and scheme. Pittsburgh has 1 OLBer that has about 15 sacks while the other has about 11.5 with 2 weeks to go. The guy that LEFT their lineup for Miami has 17.5 sacks right now. THOSE are LBers. That said, I've seen Joey Porter cover KWII pretty freakin good when the only seperation Winslow got was from a "take your seat" stiff arm.
Let me ask - were any of these guys any less than Super their last year or 2 before the NFL draft? Lawrence Taylor? Wilber Marshall? Mike Singeltary? Ken Norton Jr? Chip Banks? Clay Matthews? Derrick Thomas? Cornelius Bennett? Ray Lewis? Derrick Brooks? LaMar Woodley? Willie McGinest? Shane Conlin? Keith Brooking? Keith Bulluck? Shawne Merriman? Peter Boulware? Brad Van Pelt? Jerod Mayo? How about Brian Urlacher never even playing LBer in college and walking right in to earn himself NFC Rookie of the Year as a MLBer? He had some GREAT girth in front of him as a rookie BUT so the blocking on him was minimal BUT another reason it was minimized was the guy has GREAT instincts where his first steps get him where he needs to be before blockers can engage. His coaching staff doesn't have to sit there and ask themselves how can we strategize for this week's opponent so Brian doesn't have to think. They do that and they got the wrong the LBer JD. See where I'm coming from?
Has anyone seen that Timmons kid play lately? Holy snappen arsens! Dude gets places in a hurry and lays some lumber. That's prolly my biggest beef with our franchise right now. I see STUDS coming and going from the LBer position on our biggest rival and they don't skip a beat. In fact, this might be their best defensive year in a long time. Meanwhile, we're right back to square one at the LBer position for a team that decided the 3-4 was going to be their key to success. Not for nothing, but how many of our starting LBers could even MAKE Baltimore's team or Pittsburgh's team right now? Cowher or Marty should have already been hired.
- Tom F. (Yesterday marked the first time I've ever fallen asleep in the 1st quarter of a Browns' game. How often do you experience nightmares BEFORE you go to sleep?)
LOL! Thatta boy! Maybe you can tape the game JD.
I'm stubborn about LBers because it's almost like the RB position with your instinctive guys being your best. I still feel you either have it or you don't. I'm not saying there aren't any cases of guys being coached into solid LBers. I'm sure there's examples of that people can dig up.
Great point... You can get great RB's later in the draft imo but LB? not unless you are real lucky! I still want REY!
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i would think it speaks well of d'qwell that he's learning, though. when guys start guessing right late in the season, it could mean the light's coming on for them and that they've learned from what they've seen throughout the year and are beginning to apply it.
.jpg.a1a2b9a0c33008fdaf4097d8fe2cfd64.jpg "Riffer X"){kind=avatar}
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