NFL fines Ravens’ McClain $40,000
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I understand the McClain fine, but not so much the Ngata fine. Hitting a QB in the helmet with your hand, inadvertent or not, is a penalty, but I don't recall it ever being finable. It was just a fluke that he got BR on the nose. If he had just hit the helmet and not broken his nose would he have gotten a fine?
Perhaps Steelers fan will now flock to the defense of Ngata for being hit with unfair fines. You think?
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I understand the McClain fine, but not so much the Ngata fine. Hitting a QB in the helmet with your hand, inadvertent or not, is a penalty, but I don't recall it ever being finable. It was just a fluke that he got BR on the nose. If he had just hit the helmet and not broken his nose would he have gotten a fine?
Perhaps Steelers fan will now flock to the defense of Ngata for being hit with unfair fines. You think?
Perhaps Steelers fan will now flock to the defense of Ngata for being hit with unfair fines. You think?
Hell to the No. Front runners, period.
Luck is Tim Couch. Big, Dumb Goofy, slow thinking QB - Ghoolie, 2-28-12 -
James Harrison was fined $75K for a hit on your reciever, Massaquoi, that was less severe than the hit to Miller.
Personally I'm against nearly all fines and penalties for on the field play. While Miller did get banged up, I'd rather the officials not call a penalty on those types of hits. If we so much as breathe on an opposing QB we get flagged. Other teams can pile onto Ben or lay massive hits on him while officals look the other way. Seriously, QBs need to learn to suck it up and quit being such wussies.
The hit on Ben would have been penalized had a Steeler committed the same play to any other QB. Pittsburgh has had 2-3 penalties thrown against them for inadvertantly touching a QBs helmet this year, none of which caused any comparable injury. (If I remember correctly, it was Carson Palmer and Jason Campbell). These penalties detract from the game, which I watch for the physical conflict.
Also, I don't see how you can suspend a player (or even threaten to) for on the field plays when you don't suspend them for fist-fighting (which is an intentional act). Then again, I don't know how that player from New England who launched his helmet into Todd Heap's head didn't get suspended or fined more than James Harrison.
As much as you guys love Massaquoi, the hit laid on him was not an intentional head hit, Harrison was trying to go low him. The hit laid on Heap by NE was intentional.
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I understand the McClain fine, but not so much the Ngata fine. Hitting a QB in the helmet with your hand, inadvertent or not, is a penalty, but I don't recall it ever being finable. It was just a fluke that he got BR on the nose. If he had just hit the helmet and not broken his nose would he have gotten a fine?
Perhaps Steelers fan will now flock to the defense of Ngata for being hit with unfair fines. You think?
I understand the McClain fine, but not so much the Ngata fine. Hitting a QB in the helmet with your hand, inadvertent or not, is a penalty, but I don't recall it ever being finable. It was just a fluke that he got BR on the nose. If he had just hit the helmet and not broken his nose would he have gotten a fine?
Perhaps Steelers fan will now flock to the defense of Ngata for being hit with unfair fines. You think?
Are you talking about the same pissburgh fans that think Harrison doesnt deserve a fine even though he said he's going to keep playing dirty? God no, please dont fine anyone for doing the same thing game after game even though he's been told it's illegal more times then I can count.
It's repeat offenders like him that should get away with it and leave the big fines for those players who accidentally hit someone. Now those are the ones they need to fine.
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James Harrison was fined $75K for a hit on your reciever, Massaquoi, that was less severe than the hit to Miller.
Personally I'm against nearly all fines and penalties for on the field play. While Miller did get banged up, I'd rather the officials not call a penalty on those types of hits. If we so much as breathe on an opposing QB we get flagged. Other teams can pile onto Ben or lay massive hits on him while officals look the other way. Seriously, QBs need to learn to suck it up and quit being such wussies.
The hit on Ben would have been penalized had a Steeler committed the same play to any other QB. Pittsburgh has had 2-3 penalties thrown against them for inadvertantly touching a QBs helmet this year, none of which caused any comparable injury. (If I remember correctly, it was Carson Palmer and Jason Campbell). These penalties detract from the game, which I watch for the physical conflict.
Also, I don't see how you can suspend a player (or even threaten to) for on the field plays when you don't suspend them for fist-fighting (which is an intentional act). Then again, I don't know how that player from New England who launched his helmet into Todd Heap's head didn't get suspended or fined more than James Harrison.
As much as you guys love Massaquoi, the hit laid on him was not an intentional head hit, Harrison was trying to go low him. The hit laid on Heap by NE was intentional.
Endymion said:
James Harrison was fined $75K for a hit on your reciever, Massaquoi, that was less severe than the hit to Miller.Also, I don't see how you can suspend a player (or even threaten to) for on the field plays when you don't suspend them for fist-fighting (which is an intentional act). Then again, I don't know how that player from New England who launched his helmet into Todd Heap's head didn't get suspended or fined more than James Harrison.
Harrison is a REPEAT offender and that is why his fines are so much. Roid rage will make you do stupid things.
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Formerly Stone said:
What Steeler fans and others around the country don't like is that the same hit on Massaqua drew a $75,000 fine for Harrison....but thanks for pointing out the inconsistencies.The fact that neither of these were called on the field is rather disturbing as well!
Oh and you guys have been on here for weeks crying that Harrison shouldn't have been fined for those hits against the Browns because no penalties were called!!!! Bunch of hypocrites.
1) Shaun Rodgers got a 15 yard penalty Sunday for TOUCHING Henne's helmet.
2) What part of progressive discipline don't you Steeler boogers get? Prior to the Massaquoi hit Harrison had already been fined, (and warned). Two weeks ago, he was still up to his old leading with his head stunts, so he got fined again. It seems that JH finally got the message against the Ravens- because I saw a crushing (and totally legal) hit he laid on Flacco.
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James Harrison was fined $75K for a hit on your reciever, Massaquoi, that was less severe than the hit to Miller.
Personally I'm against nearly all fines and penalties for on the field play. While Miller did get banged up, I'd rather the officials not call a penalty on those types of hits. If we so much as breathe on an opposing QB we get flagged. Other teams can pile onto Ben or lay massive hits on him while officals look the other way. Seriously, QBs need to learn to suck it up and quit being such wussies.
The hit on Ben would have been penalized had a Steeler committed the same play to any other QB. Pittsburgh has had 2-3 penalties thrown against them for inadvertantly touching a QBs helmet this year, none of which caused any comparable injury. (If I remember correctly, it was Carson Palmer and Jason Campbell). These penalties detract from the game, which I watch for the physical conflict.
Also, I don't see how you can suspend a player (or even threaten to) for on the field plays when you don't suspend them for fist-fighting (which is an intentional act). Then again, I don't know how that player from New England who launched his helmet into Todd Heap's head didn't get suspended or fined more than James Harrison.
As much as you guys love Massaquoi, the hit laid on him was not an intentional head hit, Harrison was trying to go low him. The hit laid on Heap by NE was intentional.
Endymion said:
As much as you guys love Massaquoi, the hit laid on him was not an intentional head hit, Harrison was trying to go low him. The hit laid on Heap by NE was intentional.He made a nice try (to go low) ... I believe he is lower than the goal post.
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There have been a couple of very intelligent posts elsewhere on this message board that addressed these hits from the perspective of people who coach football. They described in some detail how proper hits can and should be made. They also expressly indicated that anyone who used proper technique would rarely, if ever, make a hit that was illegal or likely to elicit a fine. I wish those folks would speak up more often because they give a much needed perspective to these discussions.
I don't recall seeing these brain-jarring hits back in the Jim Brown era. Maybe they occurred, but I don't remember them. I also don't recall the game being any less exciting than the modern game.
It really doesn't matter if these hits were ever legal or part of the game. The fact is, we've learned a lot about the consequences of the hits and the long term after effects of severe blows to the head. It would be irresponsible of the league to ignore the consequences and allow increased violence to continue unchecked. We also know that athletes are bigger, faster, and stronger than they used to be. Even if the same sorts of blows were delivered back in the day, the consequences would not have been as severe.
Even if the league is not concerned with the health and well-being of the players, they should be concerned with their own pockets because I suspect that eventually they will end up paying for the care of the severely debilitated players and their families.
Woof Woof, Kathy http://cognitivemanifesto.com/ http://www.skadden.com/index.cfm?contentID=49&officeID=9 Bendix ESP -
In response to Hoorta:
1) Do you think the penalty for touching Henne's head was warranted? While I didn't see the game, I would say it was a BS call by the refs based upon your description. I absolutely hate those calls regardless of "who" it was called against.
In response to Atenears:
2) Your picture fails to show the hit that drew the fine, you need to back it up to the original collision where Harrison's shoulder struck Massaquoui's shoulder, then the impact/follow-thru caused the helmet collison. Miller's head was bent like 90 degrees backwards during the ravens hit Sunday night. You have failed on two counts: The hit you show does not appear to be illegal, and it does not appear to be worse than the hit to Miller.
In response to kshutchins:
3) These guys choose to play football. They know the risks. They are paid well. If the risks were not worth the reward they can always find another profession. I don't feel sorry for them, nor do I think they should sissify the game because of them. Design better equipment to protect against it, not BS rules that detract from the game.
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In response to Hoorta:
1) Do you think the penalty for touching Henne's head was warranted? While I didn't see the game, I would say it was a BS call by the refs based upon your description. I absolutely hate those calls regardless of "who" it was called against.
In response to Atenears:
2) Your picture fails to show the hit that drew the fine, you need to back it up to the original collision where Harrison's shoulder struck Massaquoui's shoulder, then the impact/follow-thru caused the helmet collison. Miller's head was bent like 90 degrees backwards during the ravens hit Sunday night. You have failed on two counts: The hit you show does not appear to be illegal, and it does not appear to be worse than the hit to Miller.
In response to kshutchins:
3) These guys choose to play football. They know the risks. They are paid well. If the risks were not worth the reward they can always find another profession. I don't feel sorry for them, nor do I think they should sissify the game because of them. Design better equipment to protect against it, not BS rules that detract from the game.
Endymion said:
In response to Hoorta:1) Do you think the penalty for touching Henne's head was warranted? While I didn't see the game, I would say it was a BS call by the refs based upon your description. I absolutely hate those calls regardless of "who" it was called against.
In response to kshutchins:
3) These guys choose to play football. They know the risks. They are paid well. If the risks were not worth the reward they can always find another profession. I don't feel sorry for them, nor do I think they should sissify the game because of them. Design better equipment to protect against it, not BS rules that detract from the game.
To answer- no it was ridiculous- and inadvertent. However, I just took a look at the YouTube of the play where Ben got his nose broken- and I didn't see ANYTHING dirty about it either.
Regarding the hits- we've had coaches comment here that helmets (at least for the aggressor) have gotten TOO good. You can now spear with your head with about zero risk of injury. The recipient isn't as lucky. It's the equivalent of whiplash in a car collision. And there's mounting evidence repeated concussions are real bad for you long term. You can play hard, and hit hard- without trying to take a guy's head off. Harrison's burial of Flacco is very good evidence of that.
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In response to Hoorta:
1) Do you think the penalty for touching Henne's head was warranted? While I didn't see the game, I would say it was a BS call by the refs based upon your description. I absolutely hate those calls regardless of "who" it was called against.
In response to Atenears:
2) Your picture fails to show the hit that drew the fine, you need to back it up to the original collision where Harrison's shoulder struck Massaquoui's shoulder, then the impact/follow-thru caused the helmet collison. Miller's head was bent like 90 degrees backwards during the ravens hit Sunday night. You have failed on two counts: The hit you show does not appear to be illegal, and it does not appear to be worse than the hit to Miller.
In response to kshutchins:
3) These guys choose to play football. They know the risks. They are paid well. If the risks were not worth the reward they can always find another profession. I don't feel sorry for them, nor do I think they should sissify the game because of them. Design better equipment to protect against it, not BS rules that detract from the game.
Endymion said:
In response to Atenears:2) Your picture fails to show the hit that drew the fine, you need to back it up to the original collision where Harrison's shoulder struck Massaquoui's shoulder, then the impact/follow-thru caused the helmet collison. Miller's head was bent like 90 degrees backwards during the ravens hit Sunday night. You have failed on two counts: The hit you show does not appear to be illegal, and it does not appear to be worse than the hit to Miller.
Hey dick-for-chin, I was responding to the comment that Harrison was "trying to go low" and as the picture clearly show, no matter whether you notch it up or back a few frames is that he is extended upwards. So you fail in knowing what is up or down.
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In response to Hoorta:
1) Do you think the penalty for touching Henne's head was warranted? While I didn't see the game, I would say it was a BS call by the refs based upon your description. I absolutely hate those calls regardless of "who" it was called against.
In response to Atenears:
2) Your picture fails to show the hit that drew the fine, you need to back it up to the original collision where Harrison's shoulder struck Massaquoui's shoulder, then the impact/follow-thru caused the helmet collison. Miller's head was bent like 90 degrees backwards during the ravens hit Sunday night. You have failed on two counts: The hit you show does not appear to be illegal, and it does not appear to be worse than the hit to Miller.
In response to kshutchins:
3) These guys choose to play football. They know the risks. They are paid well. If the risks were not worth the reward they can always find another profession. I don't feel sorry for them, nor do I think they should sissify the game because of them. Design better equipment to protect against it, not BS rules that detract from the game.
Endymion said:
nor do I think they should sissify the gameare you serious? you and a lot of people like you are fxxkin nuts. have they really sissified the game? show me proof. you mean you can't watch an nfl football if it doesn't contain at least one spine jarring hit? i guess you're a fan of dog fighting too. maybe we should be back the gladiator games just for you. do us all a favor and move to spain where they don't have the nfl but you can catch a bull fight on sundays.
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Formerly Stone said:
Excellent point!The bottom line is that due to the NFL's blind eye toward HGH and steroid use, the players in the NFL get bigger, faster, stronger, and more agile every year! You now have 270 pound linebackers who have the strength and agility to inflict unprecedented injury. The players who don't want to use HGH and steroids are faced with either being injured or cut if they don't.
And instead of fighting a battle against HGH and steroids which cause this superhuman increase, the NFL is changing rules that have worked for decades. All the time, preaching player safety, while they increase the number of games to 18 which will certainly create more injuries.
This hypocrisy is what has me pissed off!
This is where you flash a picture of the six Super Bowl trophies and turn a blindeye to the poster child team of HGH use (insert waving yellow towel here).
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Formerly Stone said:
And you know this ...........how?Steve Courson informed us all and Jim Haslett added support.
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Remove the armor they wear and replace em with leather helmets and shoulder pads. Let's see how many players lead with their heads anymore.
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Remove the armor they wear and replace em with leather helmets and shoulder pads. Let's see how many players lead with their heads anymore.
Remove the armor they wear and replace em with leather helmets and shoulder pads. Let's see how many players lead with their heads anymore.
speaking of the days when we were a good football team...
They are changing the league to be less physical. Tough hard hits are not going to be around much longer. They protect Brady and Manning way too much. The hit to Rothlesburgher should in no way be fineable.
They are listening to Andy Reid's argument that even when a QB takes off running, he should not be able to be tackled like a running back. Yes, they are possibly going to allow more protection than the sliding.
The Sunday night game that just happened between the Rats and Squeelers is the last of a dying breed.
I don't like it, but that's the way it's heading. And overall, it's not going to be good for us as Cleveland fans. Cold weather, running, physical defense type teams (which is what we are trying to be) are going by the wayside.
Basketball allows the superstars to shine to improve scoring. Baseball juices the ball and loves the long homerun. It puts fans in the seats. Football is going to the passing, poster boy high scoring QB superstar.
Its good for business.
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Formerly Stone said:
Excellent point!The bottom line is that due to the NFL's blind eye toward HGH and steroid use, the players in the NFL get bigger, faster, stronger, and more agile every year! You now have 270 pound linebackers who have the strength and agility to inflict unprecedented injury. The players who don't want to use HGH and steroids are faced with either being injured or cut if they don't.
And instead of fighting a battle against HGH and steroids which cause this superhuman increase, the NFL is changing rules that have worked for decades. All the time, preaching player safety, while they increase the number of games to 18 which will certainly create more injuries.
This hypocrisy is what has me pisses off!
The fact that the Steelers are the center of this bull shit, because they play physical, pisses me off even more! There was never a single word about James Harrison being dirty until Roger Goodell started his personal power trip!
I don't necessarily agree with your choice of 'bottom line.'
HGH and steroids certainly contribute to the problem but human beings are taller and larger overall for a variety of reasons and not just chemical enhancement. Movie theaters and stadiums (or stadia, if you prefer) contained seats that many people could no longer fit in. Any of you who have seats from old Cleveland Browns stadium may notice that it's a tighter squeeze than you expected when you try to sit. Even youngsters in pretty good shape might find that to be the case. Whether steroids are a cause or not, the athletes are not going to shrink. It's not like you're going to find the magic plug, pull it, and everyone will be shorter, smaller and slower. So, the only choice is to deal with the situation as it is now.
Let's, for the sake of argument, assume that Roger Goodell is not just on a power trip. What other possible motivation might there be for cracking down on enforcement of these rules? I'm guessing it's not just one thing.
Owners do have to protect their investment. You can yell all you want about the "greed" of the owners but that just kicks off the philosophical discussion of where we draw the line between successful business and greedy excess. As the economy is in flux, the line becomes a moving target.
When you ignore any unflattering motivations of the team owners and the commissioner, distilling the arguments down to their most noble, then player safety seems to me to be the prime impetus that makes the most sense. The fact that they are big boys and knew what they were getting into doesn't really fly when their families and often the taxpayers wind up footing the bill for choices that are made under all sorts of varying influences.
It's been made clear to me that the nature of the game will not suffer if the players comply with these rules. I don't see the downside.
Woof Woof, Kathy http://cognitivemanifesto.com/ http://www.skadden.com/index.cfm?contentID=49&officeID=9 Bendix ESP -
Formerly Stone said:
THAT.......my friends is a troll!You spew alot of the same hatred, you just come off as a teeny bit less abrasive. While you do attempt to make some intelligent posts, the inner-troll within you does come out from under its bridge alot.
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The same Browns fans that whine about Steeler fans being on this board are the same people who post on every thread about the Steelers....Just saying.
The conserversy stemming from the Sunday night game has a lot to do with the league wide cries that Goodell and the refs target Harrison/the Steelers. It's one thing for Harrison, Ward, Troy and so on to make the claim. They have been saying it all year, but it never got all that much attention because it was Steelers defending Steelers at that point...In the week leading to this past game Brain Urlacher, Chad Ochocinco and Terrell Suggs all defended Harrison hit from the previous week that got him flagged and fined. Suggs went as far as to say Harrison is "red flagged" by the refs and the league. It was at that point the claim Harrison has been unfairly targeted took root and the NFL had to release a statement saying the claims from all these players is false. How often do professional sports leagues have to release statements saying they and the refs don't target a certian player after cries from rival players insisting the league is unfair to the rival player? I've never seen anything similiar to that happening in all my years of watching all kinds of sports.
During the game it was very evident the Ravens got away with 3 very obvious penalties involving hits and the qb. This coming 7 days after Harrison was flagged for a clean, textbook hit. All this happening on national TV for the world to see had the NFL scrambling to save face. The league called NBC and told the announcers the hit on Miller should have been flagged. Since when do current league employees contact tv networks during a game to admitt a ref's mistake? I've never seen anything similiar to that happening in all my years of watching all kinds of sports.
Ngata's hit on Ben certianly shoudl have been a flag. Goodelll has previously stated any contact to a qb's head is an automatic flag. Personally, it should NOT have drawn a fine. It was accidental. Although, Goodell has also previously stated the defenders are responsibile for avoiding helmet contact during hits and tackles. Goodell would defend his fine of Ngati under the premise Ngati should have been more careful and made certian his hand stayed away from Ben's head. Personally, that's BS because it is such a fast pace and physical game, but Goodell has fined others for the same reasoning so he has done it before.
McClain's hit on Miller should have resulted in both a flag and a fine. I'm okay with the amount being $40k. Earlier this season Goodell said he would suspend players for devastating helmet-to-helmet hits on defenseless recievers even if the hit was largely accidental and even if the tackler has no previous offenses. If Goodell was seroius about those threats the McClain hit would have resulted in a suspension. I'm glad McClain has not been suspended for his hit. I think hits should only draw suspensions if their was intent to injure. Goodell's threats of suspension proving to be nothing but empty words is good for the game of football.
Late in the 4th on the final drive Suggs pulled on Ben's helmet in an attempt to make a tackle. It's illegal to tackle players by the helmet (usaully it happens with the facemask) and has been for decades. With a recent surge to protect qbs there is no excuse for the refs to have missed this call either. Suggs shouldn't be fined for the infractions and he wasn't.
"Hatred is gained as much by good works as by evil" - Niccolo Machiavelli "Expectation is the root of all heartache." - William Shakespeare "In time we hate that which we often fear. " - William Shakespeare "I DO ROIDS ... and GIVE HEAD" - ATENEARS http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=16312 http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/06166/698372-66.stm Friday said, "posters on Internet message boards hide behind their keyboards and write things they would never have the courage to say aloud in public. He said posters who write tasteless messages use football and the rivalries between teams as a way of getting out their aggression in a non-violent manner." Predicted 2010 Steelers record from this board: 7-9; 6-10; 8-8; 9-7; 10-6 -
The same Browns fans that whine about Steeler fans being on this board are the same people who post on every thread about the Steelers....Just saying.
The conserversy stemming from the Sunday night game has a lot to do with the league wide cries that Goodell and the refs target Harrison/the Steelers. It's one thing for Harrison, Ward, Troy and so on to make the claim. They have been saying it all year, but it never got all that much attention because it was Steelers defending Steelers at that point...In the week leading to this past game Brain Urlacher, Chad Ochocinco and Terrell Suggs all defended Harrison hit from the previous week that got him flagged and fined. Suggs went as far as to say Harrison is "red flagged" by the refs and the league. It was at that point the claim Harrison has been unfairly targeted took root and the NFL had to release a statement saying the claims from all these players is false. How often do professional sports leagues have to release statements saying they and the refs don't target a certian player after cries from rival players insisting the league is unfair to the rival player? I've never seen anything similiar to that happening in all my years of watching all kinds of sports.
During the game it was very evident the Ravens got away with 3 very obvious penalties involving hits and the qb. This coming 7 days after Harrison was flagged for a clean, textbook hit. All this happening on national TV for the world to see had the NFL scrambling to save face. The league called NBC and told the announcers the hit on Miller should have been flagged. Since when do current league employees contact tv networks during a game to admitt a ref's mistake? I've never seen anything similiar to that happening in all my years of watching all kinds of sports.
Ngata's hit on Ben certianly shoudl have been a flag. Goodelll has previously stated any contact to a qb's head is an automatic flag. Personally, it should NOT have drawn a fine. It was accidental. Although, Goodell has also previously stated the defenders are responsibile for avoiding helmet contact during hits and tackles. Goodell would defend his fine of Ngati under the premise Ngati should have been more careful and made certian his hand stayed away from Ben's head. Personally, that's BS because it is such a fast pace and physical game, but Goodell has fined others for the same reasoning so he has done it before.
McClain's hit on Miller should have resulted in both a flag and a fine. I'm okay with the amount being $40k. Earlier this season Goodell said he would suspend players for devastating helmet-to-helmet hits on defenseless recievers even if the hit was largely accidental and even if the tackler has no previous offenses. If Goodell was seroius about those threats the McClain hit would have resulted in a suspension. I'm glad McClain has not been suspended for his hit. I think hits should only draw suspensions if their was intent to injure. Goodell's threats of suspension proving to be nothing but empty words is good for the game of football.
Late in the 4th on the final drive Suggs pulled on Ben's helmet in an attempt to make a tackle. It's illegal to tackle players by the helmet (usaully it happens with the facemask) and has been for decades. With a recent surge to protect qbs there is no excuse for the refs to have missed this call either. Suggs shouldn't be fined for the infractions and he wasn't.
The same Browns fans that whine about Steeler fans being on this board are the same people who post on every thread about the Steelers
Last time I checked, Jameel McClain was a Raven.
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