Let's Go Ravens!
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The Soldier said:
yes the Ravens are the Browns. Say what you like. The owner of the Browns took them and moved them to Balt. That is fact.Sorry. But that's the way it happened. If not, what happened to the Browns for those few years. They quit?
You don't have a faking goddamn idea what you are talking about. Yes, as a matter of fact the Browns were "inactive".
It is not a matter of saying what I like, it is a matter of stating the facts.
You don't have a faking goddamn idea what you are talking about. Yes, as a matter of fact the Browns were "inactive".
It is not a matter of saying what I like, it is a matter of stating the facts
.You can play around with the words all you want. Art Model owned the Browns and moved his team to Balt. The team moved to Baltimore. Simple. We argued and yelled, so the league made some concessions so we could call the new cleveland team the Browns and keep the history. This happened AFTER the Browns moved to Baltimore.
The NFL threw us a bone.
If you want to believe Model took a bunch of random football players, broke leases with the city of Cleveland, took this random group of players and made a contact with the city of Baltimore for this group to play the next season in that city, most of these players just happening to be Browns players, and the city of Cleveland decided to "deactivate" the Browns for a few years. Go right ahead.
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yes the Ravens are the Browns. Say what you like. The owner of the Browns took them and moved them to Balt. That is fact.
Sorry. But that's the way it happened. If not, what happened to the Browns for those few years. They quit?
The Soldier said:
yes the Ravens are the Browns. Say what you like. The owner of the Browns took them and moved them to Balt. That is fact.Sorry. But that's the way it happened. If not, what happened to the Browns for those few years. They quit?
.....Otto Graham wasn't the Cleveland Browns.. .Jim Brown wasn't the Cleveland Browns.. Bernie Kosar wasn't the Cleveland Browns. and that group of players modell whisked off to Baltimore definitely wasn't the Cleveland Browns !!!!
Players come & go .. but the franchise remains IN CLEVELAND.......otherwise they would have been the Baltimore Browns wouldn't they...............
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You don't have a faking goddamn idea what you are talking about. Yes, as a matter of fact the Browns were "inactive".
It is not a matter of saying what I like, it is a matter of stating the facts
.You can play around with the words all you want. Art Model owned the Browns and moved his team to Balt. The team moved to Baltimore. Simple. We argued and yelled, so the league made some concessions so we could call the new cleveland team the Browns and keep the history. This happened AFTER the Browns moved to Baltimore.
The NFL threw us a bone.
If you want to believe Model took a bunch of random football players, broke leases with the city of Cleveland, took this random group of players and made a contact with the city of Baltimore for this group to play the next season in that city, most of these players just happening to be Browns players, and the city of Cleveland decided to "deactivate" the Browns for a few years. Go right ahead.
The Soldier said:
You can play around with the words all you want. Art Model owned the Browns and moved his team to Balt. The team moved to Baltimore. Simple.By no means is it that simple, stupid. The Cleveland Browns franchise did NOT move. The Cleveland Browns corporation did not move.
I don't necessarily want to give you a legal lecture about corporate asset transfers, or specific performance, or whatever other legal aspects apply to this matter, but I will if you are willing to pre-pay my retainer.
We argued and yelled, so the league made some concessions so we could call the new cleveland team the Browns and keep the history. This happened AFTER the Browns moved to Baltimore.
The NFL threw us a bone.
The NFL didn't throw us a bone, the NFL was hit across the head with a bone like a 2X4 hits a mule across the head.
If you want to believe Model took a bunch of random football players, broke leases with the city of Cleveland, took this random group of players and made a contact with the city of Baltimore for this group to play the next season in that city, most of these players just happening to be Browns players, and the city of Cleveland decided to "deactivate" the Browns for a few years. Go right ahead.
It is not an issue of what I believe. It is an issue of historical and legal fact. What you describe is exactly what happened. It isn't a matter of my opinion.
My opinion is a matter of subjectivity. What happened with the Browns is not a subjective matter, it is a factual matter.
You can't state an opinion as a fact and claim to be right. Just because you think the earth is flat does not make it flat.
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So, in 1995, it didn't bother you at all when Model moved the, I guess, Ravens, from Cleveland to Baltimore? (using your logic)
You were ok with this. He's not moving the Browns. The Browns are going to take a break for some odd reason, and Model is moving the Ravens to Baltimore.
Why would all of Cleveland be upset with Modell? He didn't do anything?
Never heard of a team "deactivating" themselves.
What happened to the players? They were on the Browns in 1995 and then the Ravens in 1996. Did they get traded? All sign as free agents? Where did the Browns go? Disappear?
Now, I understand, the revisionist legal thing that was done to give the history and colors, etc back to Cleveland. But in reality, come on.
Semantics.
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So, in 1995, it didn't bother you at all when Model moved the, I guess, Ravens, from Cleveland to Baltimore? (using your logic)
You were ok with this. He's not moving the Browns. The Browns are going to take a break for some odd reason, and Model is moving the Ravens to Baltimore.
Why would all of Cleveland be upset with Modell? He didn't do anything?
Never heard of a team "deactivating" themselves.
What happened to the players? They were on the Browns in 1995 and then the Ravens in 1996. Did they get traded? All sign as free agents? Where did the Browns go? Disappear?
Now, I understand, the revisionist legal thing that was done to give the history and colors, etc back to Cleveland. But in reality, come on.
Semantics.
The Soldier said:
So, in 1995, it didn't bother you at all when Model moved the, I guess, Ravens, from Cleveland to Baltimore? (using your logic)You were ok with this. He's not moving the Browns. The Browns are going to take a break for some odd reason, and Model is moving the Ravens to Baltimore.
Why would all of Cleveland be upset with Modell? He didn't do anything?
Never heard of a team "deactivating" themselves.
What happened to the players? They were on the Browns in 1995 and then the Ravens in 1996. Did they get traded? All sign as free agents? Where did the Browns go? Disappear?
Now, I understand, the revisionist legal thing that was done to give the history and colors, etc back to Cleveland. But in reality, come on.
Semantics.
i smell a steeler's troll. poser.
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So, in 1995, it didn't bother you at all when Model moved the, I guess, Ravens, from Cleveland to Baltimore? (using your logic)
You were ok with this. He's not moving the Browns. The Browns are going to take a break for some odd reason, and Model is moving the Ravens to Baltimore.
Why would all of Cleveland be upset with Modell? He didn't do anything?
Never heard of a team "deactivating" themselves.
What happened to the players? They were on the Browns in 1995 and then the Ravens in 1996. Did they get traded? All sign as free agents? Where did the Browns go? Disappear?
Now, I understand, the revisionist legal thing that was done to give the history and colors, etc back to Cleveland. But in reality, come on.
Semantics.
The Soldier said:
So, in 1995, it didn't bother you at all when Model moved the, I guess, Ravens, from Cleveland to Baltimore? (using your logic)You were ok with this. He's not moving the Browns. The Browns are going to take a break for some odd reason, and Model is moving the Ravens to Baltimore.
Why would all of Cleveland be upset with Modell? He didn't do anything?
Never heard of a team "deactivating" themselves.
What happened to the players? They were on the Browns in 1995 and then the Ravens in 1996. Did they get traded? All sign as free agents? Where did the Browns go? Disappear?
Now, I understand, the revisionist legal thing that was done to give the history and colors, etc back to Cleveland. But in reality, come on.
Semantics.
It is not semantics. There were substantive legal issues at play here. Clearly, however, you don't have a F**king clue, and you capparently don't give a damn about what the facts are, but you are still going to get them: .
There was no "revisionist" legal thing.
The Ravens never existed as an NFL franchise until the settlement of the legal matters was resolved.
The Ravens never moved. They were created as a new expansion franchise entity in Baltimore, and the ownership was assigned to Art Modell.
The entity known as the Cleveland Browns franchise went into trust with the NFL. They didn't deactivate themselves, they were deactivated by the NFL pursuant to the settlement arrangement. Don't you remember Bill Futterer being the head of the Cleveland Browns Trust? The NFL held the franchise in trust until they decided how to reconstitute it and how to sell it to a new owner.
As for the players being traded.....in a certain sense you could call it that. Their contracts were 'assigned' from the Cleveland Browns franchise to the Baltimore Ravens franchise, essentially exactly like what happens when a trade is made.
Were you even alive when all this happened? You seem so clueless about it I have to believe you weren't.
My God, this is an old, well know story. Why are you just now catching up with it?
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So, in 1995, it didn't bother you at all when Model moved the, I guess, Ravens, from Cleveland to Baltimore? (using your logic)
You were ok with this. He's not moving the Browns. The Browns are going to take a break for some odd reason, and Model is moving the Ravens to Baltimore.
Why would all of Cleveland be upset with Modell? He didn't do anything?
Never heard of a team "deactivating" themselves.
What happened to the players? They were on the Browns in 1995 and then the Ravens in 1996. Did they get traded? All sign as free agents? Where did the Browns go? Disappear?
Now, I understand, the revisionist legal thing that was done to give the history and colors, etc back to Cleveland. But in reality, come on.
Semantics.
The Soldier said:
So, in 1995, it didn't bother you at all when Model moved the, I guess, Ravens, from Cleveland to Baltimore? (using your logic)You were ok with this. He's not moving the Browns. The Browns are going to take a break for some odd reason, and Model is moving the Ravens to Baltimore.
Why would all of Cleveland be upset with Modell? He didn't do anything?
Never heard of a team "deactivating" themselves.
What happened to the players? They were on the Browns in 1995 and then the Ravens in 1996. Did they get traded? All sign as free agents? Where did the Browns go? Disappear?
Now, I understand, the revisionist legal thing that was done to give the history and colors, etc back to Cleveland. But in reality, come on.
Semantics.
Look its quite simple...........in 1995 Art Modell TRIED to move the Cleveland Browns franchise to Baltimore... that's the reason all of Cleveland was upset with him . The city of Cleveland fought the move . and won . So the Cleveland Browns Franchise Stayed in Cleveland...ideally we would have liked to have kept the players and competed in the 1996 season as the Browns. but at the time just keeping the Browns name and colors and history was good enough. the players left and automatically became employed by the Baltimore Ravens...........so using your logic if the ravens ( players )would have won the SB that first season that would have been a Cleveland Browns winning team only in different colors . in a different City????....?????
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I was in Cleveland at the time. I remember Art Model moving the team to Baltimore. I then remember the fight that ensued, and the city getting the Browns colors and history back.
This has nothing to do with dedication to the Browns, or following them, supporting them, etc.
If your boss fires you, and then you say "you can't fire me, I quit" You were fired.
Now there are cases where someone is about to be fired, and a company allows them to resign to avoid being fired. Legally, they resigned their position, but in reality, they were fired.
We can make all the adjustements in wording we want, but everyone should know what really happened.
A lot of name calling for just a difference our interpratation of what happened.
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I was in Cleveland at the time. I remember Art Model moving the team to Baltimore. I then remember the fight that ensued, and the city getting the Browns colors and history back.
This has nothing to do with dedication to the Browns, or following them, supporting them, etc.
If your boss fires you, and then you say "you can't fire me, I quit" You were fired.
Now there are cases where someone is about to be fired, and a company allows them to resign to avoid being fired. Legally, they resigned their position, but in reality, they were fired.
We can make all the adjustements in wording we want, but everyone should know what really happened.
A lot of name calling for just a difference our interpratation of what happened.
The Soldier said:
I was in Cleveland at the time. I remember Art Model moving the team to Baltimore. I then remember the fight that ensued, and the city getting the Browns colors and history back.This has nothing to do with dedication to the Browns, or following them, supporting them, etc.
If your boss fires you, and then you say "you can't fire me, I quit" You were fired.
Now there are cases where someone is about to be fired, and a company allows them to resign to avoid being fired. Legally, they resigned their position, but in reality, they were fired.
We can make all the adjustements in wording we want, but everyone should know what really happened.
A lot of name calling for just a difference our interpratation of what happened.
This is not a case of where there can be a "difference of interpretation" of what happened. There is what happened and there is...nothing.
The Cleveland Browns team...and every other NFL team was and is made up of more than just the guy that owns the biggest chunk of it and his underlings, be those players, coaches, secretaries, or other front office types. Owners, players, coaches, secretaries, etc. etc. etc. come and go.
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The Soldier said:
I was in Cleveland at the time. I remember Art Model moving the team to Baltimore. I then remember the fight that ensued, and the city getting the Browns colors and history back.This has nothing to do with dedication to the Browns, or following them, supporting them, etc.
If your boss fires you, and then you say "you can't fire me, I quit" You were fired.
Now there are cases where someone is about to be fired, and a company allows them to resign to avoid being fired. Legally, they resigned their position, but in reality, they were fired.
We can make all the adjustements in wording we want, but everyone should know what really happened.
A lot of name calling for just a difference our interpratation of what happened.
This is not a case of where there can be a "difference of interpretation" of what happened. There is what happened and there is...nothing.
The Cleveland Browns team...and every other NFL team was and is made up of more than just the guy that owns the biggest chunk of it and his underlings, be those players, coaches, secretaries, or other front office types. Owners, players, coaches, secretaries, etc. etc. etc. come and go.
This is not a case of where there can be a "difference of interpretation" of what happened. There is what happened and there is...nothing.
The Cleveland Browns team...and every other NFL team was and is made up of more than just the guy that owns the biggest chunk of it and his underlings, be those players, coaches, secretaries, or other front office types. Owners, players, coaches, secretaries, etc. etc. etc. come and go.
Well said ...................what is the matter with this guy!!!!
i know i dont know the intricacies of the story but......the Cleveland Browns NEVER left Cleveland....just the personnel ........and as i keep saying they dont represent the history or the legacy of the Browns
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OK. You've convinced me. I agree with you now.
(there is what's real, and what the written word says)
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OK. You've convinced me. I agree with you now.
(there is what's real, and what the written word says)
The Soldier said:
OK. You've convinced me. I agree with you now.(there is what's real, and what the written word says)
"there is what's real . and what the written word says"???????????????????????????
i STILL dont know what your point is/ was !!!!!
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The Soldier said:
OK. You've convinced me. I agree with you now.(there is what's real, and what the written word says)
"there is what's real . and what the written word says"???????????????????????????
i STILL dont know what your point is/ was !!!!!
"there is what's real . and what the written word says"???????????????????????????
i STILL dont know what your point is/ was !!!!!
hey UK: this guy is a tool. don't understand how negativity is a good thing.
in the meantime............be calm and carry on! how are the cucumber sandwiches this time of year? -peace.
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All I know is If Art didn't pull his stunt then Cleveland would have had a team in '96 '97 '98. I hate Art and will laugh when he dies.
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What's negative about it? I'm not saying i like it.
I remember Model saying he is moving the team to Baltimore.
I remember the trucks leaving as they took all the stuff from Berea. The uproar, and the fans coming together to let the NFL know we want a team in Cleveland called the Browns with the same colors.
What about the FACT that for some reason, in 1996 the Baltimore Ravens took the place in the draft of the Cleveland Browns (a spot that was based on the Browns record from the year before)
I'm not being negative.
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"there is what's real . and what the written word says"???????????????????????????
i STILL dont know what your point is/ was !!!!!
hey UK: this guy is a tool. don't understand how negativity is a good thing.
in the meantime............be calm and carry on! how are the cucumber sandwiches this time of year? -peace.
hey UK: this guy is a tool. don't understand how negativity is a good thing.
in the meantime............be calm and carry on! how are the cucumber sandwiches this time of year? -peace.
Ha Ha ..there's not much call for Cucumber sandwiches in Manchester!!!........rather have a 'Big Mac' or a 'subway'
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