Dan Pompei Says Mangini Will Get Axed
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AFC North final say
James Walker: Mangini is doing a better job of coaching this year. But I think Holmgren's decision is yet to be determined, so it's hard to say either way. It will come down to the team's performance in these final four games. The next two weeks are huge. The Browns have to beat the Buffalo Bills and Cincinnati Bengals, who are a combined 4-20. Beating the Baltimore Ravens and Pittsburgh Steelers are much stiffer challenges. But the philosophical differences are legit, because if the Browns aren't winning enough under Mangini, the people in the front office can always point to what they would do different. If Mangini finishes 8-8, he should be safe. But if he goes 7-9 or less, that would place a difficult decision in Holmgren's hands.
And trust me, Holmgrem and Gruden are close.
AFC North final say
James Walker: Mangini is doing a better job of coaching this year. But I think Holmgren's decision is yet to be determined, so it's hard to say either way. It will come down to the team's performance in these final four games. The next two weeks are huge. The Browns have to beat the Buffalo Bills and Cincinnati Bengals, who are a combined 4-20. Beating the Baltimore Ravens and Pittsburgh Steelers are much stiffer challenges. But the philosophical differences are legit, because if the Browns aren't winning enough under Mangini, the people in the front office can always point to what they would do different. If Mangini finishes 8-8, he should be safe. But if he goes 7-9 or less, that would place a difficult decision in Holmgren's hands.
And trust me, Holmgrem and Gruden are close.
Luckily Holmgren isn't an idiot that bases everything off of final W-L (7-9 is almost no different than 8-8), but rather improvement and progress. These idiots should look at the Browns roster and then look at the top team's rosters and see the difference. Mangini is doing a great job for what he has and if he had a roster like the Saints, Falcons, Ravens, etc, we would be a playoff team every year.
And it's not about the losses, it's how you lost them, and the majority of the losses came from competing hard until the very end when some crucial mistakes occurred by the players(Delhomme in Tampa for example), being 5-7 with most of your losses being blow outs and being 5-7 with most of your losses being competitive is way different. If anyone out there honestly thinks Gruden(or any coach in general) would have this team(with the current roster) in the playoffs this year, then you're delusional.
It amazes me how many fans and writers alike are complete morons when it comes to judging a team or coach.
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http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/footb...,7329947.column
Another fire Mangini to hire Gruden mention. If Gruden was born in Dakota - would he perceived this well? THANK GOD Bob Stoops, Bo Pelini or Jerry Faust haven't mentioned they're interested in the Browns job.
I'm amazed at how wonderful the accomplishment of lighting the Ratbirds Defense up with 3 points in 60 minutes makes Gruden the very next Mr Wonderful for Cleveland. If memory serves me right, didn't Bill Callahan lead Oakland to a Superbowl Sunday? So who accomplished more with the same personnel? Who gives a rat where he was born or went to high school. For anyone that wants to inform me the Bucs won a Superbowl with Gruden - they couldn't have done it without 4 INT returns for TDs from the defense Monte Kiffen Coordinated.
You don't fire a GOOD head coach to hire a GOOD head coach unless you want to repeat the process for 2 decades like we've just FREAKIN witnessed. And I don't feel like sayin FREAKIN. In the 80s, Cleveland was a GREAT place for someone to consider coming to coach here. Today, people are putting for sale signs in the head coach's lawn before the contract ink dries. Suddenly coaches that were ecstatic to coach in Cleveland during the 80s gave us "no thank you's" in 2009. I think we can be a little more appreciative to Mangini and his staff for all of their efforts to take this challenge on. Folks, the elite candidates weren't exactly lining up at Lerner's door in 2009.
Most recently, all the post game shows everywhere that used to laugh at the Browns are giving them serious respect weekly. What do you think they'll say if Mangini gets fired? "They're ripping it right back down to the ground in Cleveland again. It's gonna be about 3-4 years before we know if that was worth it." It means cleaning the coaching staff the players are believing in. It could also mean purging out all the 2 gap defensive players they have for 1 gap guys. May not sound like much; but when we're just 1 x-factor at WR away, 1 more corner/Safety and 1 pass rusher away - it's gonna involve a lot more roster purging than people expect. This will have been an epic waste of time.
Point? Be careful what you wish for. FWIW, the last time Holmgren coached a roster like the one we have now he was 4-12. The last time Joe Gibbs had one like it - he retired for good. When somebody gets in the batter's box, sometimes they perform their best work after the second swing. This staff deserves a 3rd season. O line coach George Warhop has our running game going through 8-9 men in the box. RBs coach Gary Brown closed 09 strong and has Hillis performing his best work as a pro. STs Coach brad Seely has our punt coverage teams leading the NFl with down punts inside the 10 yard line, Bryan Cox has done a great job with the dline and his best work can be seen in Rubin with firing out lower and playing with better leverage. The defense is making plays and turnovers. The biggest enbemy is 3 Qbs in walking boots plus key players like Scott Fujita and Cribbs and Pashos gettigng injured when this team doesn't have a series of good drafts behind it yet.
- Tom F.
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There are to many people whos ego wont let them admit they were wrong in wanting him out so soon. I can honestly say I was not a Mangini fan and I am glad to say I was wrong. Theres still room for improvement obviously. But I dunno how you can fire him with how the teams progressing.
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I don't root for a coach or player over my team. If Mangini, for some odd reason gets shit-canned, I'll still be a Browns fan.
With that being said...
I know everyone is entitled to their opinion but I honestly don't see how this "Mangini is going to get fired talk" has legs to run on. The team is noticeably better. Our record will be better than last years, unless we somehow tank these last games, which I highly doubt. The team plays 100% the whole game and doesn't quit. When was the last time you saw that? There is noticeable improvement from last years team.
We finally have a coach here who looks like he, along with a competent FO, is building a contending team. The right way. Not like the Cardinals who made it to a Super Bowl and now look like a shadow of their former selves. Not like the Bengals who make a few playoff runs then are back down in the dumpster of the NFL and playing like complete shit. I'm sure there are a few other teams I can throw out there who had one season where they were contenders only to become pretenders the next year.
We have something special coming together here guys. We need to have patience and the winning seasons will start to come.
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Coach Mangini has this team playing as hard and smart as any team in the league. The team has been competitive every Sunday with average talent at best in several key positions. His QB injury problems
have significanlty impacted his efforts to develop an effective, evolving offensive identity. I don't doubt for a second that he has the full support of MH. Anything less would be an injustice to Coach Mangini,
his team and Browns fans. Let the out-of-town hacks speculate all they want.
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For a smarter take, here's Bill Simmons:
Browns (+1) over BILLS
I don't care if Jake Delhomme might be involved -- the Browns are one fumble and one 80-yard screen pass from a six-game winning streak right now. In the "Which coach is least likely to get fired?" power rankings, has Eric Mangini vaulted above Rex Ryan or am I crazy?
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Well I think if there's anyone who knows how the Browns coaching situation will end up, it's definitely a douche in Chicago who's never met Mangini or Holmgren.
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There's so much over-reporting these days, it about makes me want to puke. No source, no nothing just "specualtion". STFU already. I heard Jerry Jones offered Bill Belichick $50 million a year to coach the Cowboys.
I can't add much to Riff's excellent take- but I'm firmly in the pro-Mangini camp. And that's pretty amazing, as I was totally in the Can-gini camp before the Browns went on the end of season win streak last year. Yeah- some busts in the 2009 draft. I'll give him a mulligan. The 2010 draft, if repeated will put the Browns in contention once again.
The whiners cried at the time- but look at this- Watson is having a better season than the departed WinSLOW (with due respects to Ghoolie). And FWIW, his knee isn't totally shot either, and the Browns aren't paying him a ton of money.
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There's so much over-reporting these days, it about makes me want to puke. No source, no nothing just "specualtion". STFU already. I heard Jerry Jones offered Bill Belichick $50 million a year to coach the Cowboys.
I can't add much to Riff's excellent take- but I'm firmly in the pro-Mangini camp. And that's pretty amazing, as I was totally in the Can-gini camp before the Browns went on the end of season win streak last year. Yeah- some busts in the 2009 draft. I'll give him a mulligan. The 2010 draft, if repeated will put the Browns in contention once again.
The whiners cried at the time- but look at this- Watson is having a better season than the departed WinSLOW (with due respects to Ghoolie). And FWIW, his knee isn't totally shot either, and the Browns aren't paying him a ton of money.
I can't add much to Riff's excellent take -
The whiners cried at the time- but look at this- Watson is having a better season than the departed WinSLOW (with due respects to Ghoolie). And FWIW, his knee isn't totally shot either, and the Browns aren't paying him a ton of money.
Good points about Riffer's post. That thing was packed with goodies and hilarious nicknames. I think he nails the part about young Wrs and Alex Mack in particular.
Anway, I remembered how devastated people were about Winslow and nehative about Watson. BB LOVES those TEs in round one (wanted Kyle Brady, snagged Ben Watson & Daniel Graham). Anyway, what got forgot is PHIL SAVAGE was 100% the reason Winslow lost any interest in staying in Cleveland 1 more day. If Winslow and poppa Winslow wanted to be jerks - I think there was a disturbing HIPPA violation they could have sued Savage for when testies became grapefruits under the acorn and somebody leaked some info to the public they shouldn't have. As far as being a COMPLETE TE, Winslow couldn't ever set the edge blocking so when he came in it was pretty predictable what we could only do. The guy could never practice and I think it really began to hinder and handcuff him in terms of consistency. Plus, it's not like we already had the most accurate QBs around.
Alot of the Mangini stereotypes came from the NY media presenting him as a football background of ballboy only. And then we research reality and this was his start leading up to coaching:
"Mangini played nose tackle at Division III Wesleyan University and holds the school's single-season (11.5) and career (36.5) sacks records[1]. During the second semester of his junior and senior years, he coached the Kew Colts, a semi-professional football team in Melbourne, Australia, to two regional championships.[2] Mangini joined the Chi Psi Fraternity that coaching mentor Bill Belichick, a Wesleyan alumnus, was part of two decades earlier."
Therefore, when some former towel boy that can conjugate verbs and get revenge on former atheletes with a freakin pc & keyboard - try to remember it's only fractional truths.
- Tom F. (That light at the end of the tunnel isn't the headlamp of an oncoming train any more - it's just Peyton Hillis)
I welcome the only Defensive Coordinator to earn a Superbowl Ring in New Orleans while understanding Revenge of the Nerds is a sequel. "Come get some!" -
I cant spell, that is obvious..
BTW, my real name is matt. WRREBEL is my stipper name.
Classic stuff! When you can't spell your occupation - I'm a BIG fan! God bless ya! Let's hope that job name wasn't dislexic for KEEBLER or you're gonna be looking for a new line of work reeeel soon.
Who gives a rat about spelling? It's overrated. Just keep a sense of humor man...
- Tom F.
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I can't add much to Riff's excellent take -
The whiners cried at the time- but look at this- Watson is having a better season than the departed WinSLOW (with due respects to Ghoolie). And FWIW, his knee isn't totally shot either, and the Browns aren't paying him a ton of money.
Good points about Riffer's post. That thing was packed with goodies and hilarious nicknames. I think he nails the part about young Wrs and Alex Mack in particular.
Anway, I remembered how devastated people were about Winslow and nehative about Watson. BB LOVES those TEs in round one (wanted Kyle Brady, snagged Ben Watson & Daniel Graham). Anyway, what got forgot is PHIL SAVAGE was 100% the reason Winslow lost any interest in staying in Cleveland 1 more day. If Winslow and poppa Winslow wanted to be jerks - I think there was a disturbing HIPPA violation they could have sued Savage for when testies became grapefruits under the acorn and somebody leaked some info to the public they shouldn't have. As far as being a COMPLETE TE, Winslow couldn't ever set the edge blocking so when he came in it was pretty predictable what we could only do. The guy could never practice and I think it really began to hinder and handcuff him in terms of consistency. Plus, it's not like we already had the most accurate QBs around.
Alot of the Mangini stereotypes came from the NY media presenting him as a football background of ballboy only. And then we research reality and this was his start leading up to coaching:
"Mangini played nose tackle at Division III Wesleyan University and holds the school's single-season (11.5) and career (36.5) sacks records[1]. During the second semester of his junior and senior years, he coached the Kew Colts, a semi-professional football team in Melbourne, Australia, to two regional championships.[2] Mangini joined the Chi Psi Fraternity that coaching mentor Bill Belichick, a Wesleyan alumnus, was part of two decades earlier."
Therefore, when some former towel boy that can conjugate verbs and get revenge on former atheletes with a freakin pc & keyboard - try to remember it's only fractional truths.
- Tom F. (That light at the end of the tunnel isn't the headlamp of an oncoming train any more - it's just Peyton Hillis)
Good points about Riffer's post. That thing was packed with goodies and hilarious nicknames. I think he nails the part about young Wrs and Alex Mack in particular.
Anway, I remembered how devastated people were about Winslow and nehative about Watson. BB LOVES those TEs in round one (wanted Kyle Brady, snagged Ben Watson & Daniel Graham). Anyway, what got forgot is PHIL SAVAGE was 100% the reason Winslow lost any interest in staying in Cleveland 1 more day. If Winslow and poppa Winslow wanted to be jerks - I think there was a disturbing HIPPA violation they could have sued Savage for when testies became grapefruits under the acorn and somebody leaked some info to the public they shouldn't have. As far as being a COMPLETE TE, Winslow couldn't ever set the edge blocking so when he came in it was pretty predictable what we could only do. The guy could never practice and I think it really began to hinder and handcuff him in terms of consistency. Plus, it's not like we already had the most accurate QBs around.
Alot of the Mangini stereotypes came from the NY media presenting him as a football background of ballboy only. And then we research reality and this was his start leading up to coaching:
"Mangini played nose tackle at Division III Wesleyan University and holds the school's single-season (11.5) and career (36.5) sacks records[1]. During the second semester of his junior and senior years, he coached the Kew Colts, a semi-professional football team in Melbourne, Australia, to two regional championships.[2] Mangini joined the Chi Psi Fraternity that coaching mentor Bill Belichick, a Wesleyan alumnus, was part of two decades earlier."
Therefore, when some former towel boy that can conjugate verbs and get revenge on former atheletes with a freakin pc & keyboard - try to remember it's only fractional truths.
- Tom F. (That light at the end of the tunnel isn't the headlamp of an oncoming train any more - it's just Peyton Hillis)
Fluges,
Good stuff on Winslow. I never disliked Kellen as much as I did BE. Kellen was a player and he was a competitor as well. I wonder how it would have been for him sans injuries early in his career. Did I think he was a punk coming out of college? Of course, but when he was healthy and playing here I couldn't complain. Yes, he was a terrible blocker, but so is Evan Moore and that's why he got cut and that's why when he's in the game for us he's usually split out wide.
But the move to TB was a good one for Kellen. He needed a fresh start elsewhere, although I wonder how Mangini was able to make it work with Shaun Rogers but not Kellen.
As far as Mangini getting axed, the people arguing it for it to happen can only bring SPECULATION on what they THINK MIGHT happen. I will stick to facts: This team is competitive EVERY week. This team is BETTER than a year ago at this time. Mangini has his players EXPECTING to win.
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What we Browns fans are seeing is coaching in the NFL at its best. Fujita and Robaire go down (argueably the Browns to best defensive players) but Mangini and the CS make the adjustments and we still ball out on the darkside. The offense goes thru 3 QB's, 6 changes at right tackle,1 damn running back.. loses Cribbs BUT they manage to adjust,re-adjust, and re re adjust..no crying or woe is me complaining from the CS..I know the "intelligent" Brown fans appreciate what there witnessing from Coach Mangini and his staff..and if you aren't.. you should...SERIOUSLY...GO BROWNS
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There are to many people whos ego wont let them admit they were wrong in wanting him out so soon. I can honestly say I was not a Mangini fan and I am glad to say I was wrong. Theres still room for improvement obviously. But I dunno how you can fire him with how the teams progressing.
There are to many people whos ego wont let them admit they were wrong in wanting him out so soon. I can honestly say I was not a Mangini fan and I am glad to say I was wrong. Theres still room for improvement obviously. But I dunno how you can fire him with how the teams progressing.
Good post Joe... had really mixed emotions about last year's winning streak... I hated that any easy schedule saved Mangini's job... and I continue to be frustrated by his lack of in game adjustments... but the team is playing hard for him, and we're progressing! As a Browns fan that's a real start.
I just wish we had an better offensive scheme.
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There are to many people whos ego wont let them admit they were wrong in wanting him out so soon. I can honestly say I was not a Mangini fan and I am glad to say I was wrong. Theres still room for improvement obviously. But I dunno how you can fire him with how the teams progressing.
Good post Joe... had really mixed emotions about last year's winning streak... I hated that any easy schedule saved Mangini's job... and I continue to be frustrated by his lack of in game adjustments... but the team is playing hard for him, and we're progressing! As a Browns fan that's a real start.
I just wish we had an better offensive scheme.
Good post Joe... had really mixed emotions about last year's winning streak... I hated that any easy schedule saved Mangini's job... and I continue to be frustrated by his lack of in game adjustments... but the team is playing hard for him, and we're progressing! As a Browns fan that's a real start.
I just wish we had an better offensive scheme.
And the FACT the Browns now have the NFL's toughest schedule tells you something about Mangini and his staff with out mentioning the 150 point differential improvement from 09..The FACT this team has been decimated by injuries(too many to list) and Mangini and staff have made all the personal adjustments and still have won 4 out of 6 games..Its called excellent coaching
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We have all seen MANY on this board who were "anti-Mangini" do a turn around & acknowledge his accomplishments of this season. I find it almost unbelievable that anyone could actually FAIL to see the vast improvement in this team. Given strength of schedule, injuries, talent level, & inexperience at some positions, I can hardly BELIEVE what he has accomplished in light of all that & I have always been a Mangini backer. Just goes to prove the old adage, "When the going gets tough, the tough get going".
We've got our Coach, let's stick with him.
Mike
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There are to many people whos ego wont let them admit they were wrong in wanting him out so soon. I can honestly say I was not a Mangini fan and I am glad to say I was wrong. Theres still room for improvement obviously. But I dunno how you can fire him with how the teams progressing.
Good post Joe... had really mixed emotions about last year's winning streak... I hated that any easy schedule saved Mangini's job... and I continue to be frustrated by his lack of in game adjustments... but the team is playing hard for him, and we're progressing! As a Browns fan that's a real start.
I just wish we had an better offensive scheme.
Good post Joe... had really mixed emotions about last year's winning streak... I hated that any easy schedule saved Mangini's job... and I continue to be frustrated by his lack of in game adjustments... but the team is playing hard for him, and we're progressing! As a Browns fan that's a real start.
I just wish we had an better offensive scheme.
I'm sort of Switzerland on the coaching thing, or maybe just cloudy and undecided... but I think we need to rethink the offense, not just add a WR.
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It was linked on OBR, thought it was worth bitching about. My personal opinion is this, since Choco so kindly asked for it: You can't argue that the team is more competitive. If they close strong, you can definitely make a case that Mangini be retained.
However, Holmgren is the top of the food chain and we all know he doesn't like Daboll's offense or playcalling and that's an issue that isn't simply going to evaporate. Can Mangini and Holmgren find peace with Holmgren's offense and Mangini's defense? Maybe. Or maybe Holmgren falls on his sword.
And my opinion on Haden has always been that he's very good. I didn't like the pick, which is different. I would have rather traded down a little, drafted Dez Bryant, and found a corner a little later. How do I feel now? I think the Browns are probably lucky I'm not the GM, because we have Haden, he's getting beastly, and we can draft our #1 WR next year. If McCoy is all that next year and Hardesty makes some noise? Pretty amazing draft for Heckert and one I admittedly wasn't all that stoked over.
Choco... have I been saying shitty things to you? Do you not feel a little weird being an ass to me when I never say anything remotely nasty to you? I would, but that's me.
However, Holmgren is the top of the food chain and we all know he doesn't like Daboll's offense or playcalling ...
We do? How do we know that?
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The coaching change talk is just plain goofy. Look at the sentiment on this Board, about 10-1 to keep Mangini. i talk with Browns fans everyday at work, lunch, evenings, and the ratio is about the same. The only goofballs keeping this talk alive is the national media and, locally, WKNR and some writers at the PD. Who do they represent? What is their agenda? To have a colorful, media friendly HC?
Holmgrem? Gruden? Ryan?
Screw KNR and Mary Kay.
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It doesn't matter what any of us believe.
There is a chance mangini will be fired. You have to look at holmgren. He took over the browns football operation to turn this around. How many times do guys get fired because he is not his guy? Mangini isn't his guy.
It will all come down to if holmgren can live with the difference in football ideals.
It doesn't matter what any of us believe.
There is a chance mangini will be fired. You have to look at holmgren. He took over the browns football operation to turn this around. How many times do guys get fired because he is not his guy? Mangini isn't his guy.
It will all come down to if holmgren can live with the difference in football ideals.
Well....if Holmgren can't adjust, then he can leave. I would rather see Mangini stay and finish the job, then have Holmgren take over as HC.....but that's just me.
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It doesn't matter what any of us believe.
There is a chance mangini will be fired. You have to look at holmgren. He took over the browns football operation to turn this around. How many times do guys get fired because he is not his guy? Mangini isn't his guy.
It will all come down to if holmgren can live with the difference in football ideals.
Well....if Holmgren can't adjust, then he can leave. I would rather see Mangini stay and finish the job, then have Holmgren take over as HC.....but that's just me.
Well....if Holmgren can't adjust, then he can leave. I would rather see Mangini stay and finish the job, then have Holmgren take over as HC.....but that's just me.
For the sake of honesty, I'll feel that way about Mangini when he has some playoff wins under his belt... and maybe a Super Bowl victory. Until then, I'll rank both Holmgren and Chuckie above him as NFL coaches.
I feel good about the progress. I think we're really, really light in the passing game, especially downfield and to WRs. It's a passing league and a QB league and we need to catch up. I don't believe in Daboll on offense as much as I do Mangini on defense.
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