Bye Bye Mangini
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Why are so many Browns fans willing to settle for mediocrity and are almost happy with it? You mean to tell it's wrong to expect a 2-3 win improvement for a coach taking over a 4-12 team.
Why are so many Browns fans willing to settle for mediocrity and are almost happy with it? You mean to tell it's wrong to expect a 2-3 win improvement for a coach taking over a 4-12 team.
No, it's wrong to measure improvement solely based on wins and losses.
And no one is settling for mediocrity. Did you really expect this team to go to the playoffs this year? Did you really? Then you should have your freakin' head examined. Look at the roster for crying out loud. This team wasn't going anywhere this year with Vince Lombardi as the HC, Bill Walsh as the OC, and Bill Belichick/Dick LeBeau as co-DCs.
What were your expectations going in? Mine were for a better level of competitiveness and more wins, hopefully 7-9, 8-8. Again, hopefully. Are we more competitive against good teams? Absolutely. Are we going to win 7 or 8? No. But were we far from that plateau when you look at the games? Obviously not. Close games, the entire year against good and bad. One play here or there. Stuckey's fumble, Kasay's doink-job, Wallace's pick-six. That's life in the NFL.
Even the good teams have had their share of ups and downs. Take Pittsburgh for example. Lucky to win at Buffalo. Lucky to win at Miami. Lost a close one against New York. Lost at New Orleans. Lost at home big-time to New England. Obviously, they have had more ups than downs, but inconsistency reigns in the NFL especially when you don't have playmakers at key positions. Hell, they went from SB champs to out of the playoffs in one season. Need I say more?
If the Browns are 5-11 next year with an easier schedule, another Heckert draft, and a full year of Colt at QB, then hell yes nobody, not even the staunchest EM supporters should be settling for that. Then, and only then, can we justifiably talk about EM being shown the door.
Damn, I just hate it when people refuse to recognize the fact that EM has been the ONLY coach here willing to do a rebuild the right way: clean up the roster/locker room, acquire more draft picks, and instill a tougher, more disciplined and consistent approach to the game. And now because we have lost to Buffalo and Cincy in consecutive weeks, it's clear we're not making progress in Year 2 of a FULL FLEDGED REBUILD? Bullshit.
...searching for Nev Chandler..."5,4,3,2,1, Touchdown Browns!! -
in this business its measured in wins and losses.
You say we have a tougher team but we have looked pretty soft the last two weeks.
I think mangini supporters are more anal then me.
in this business its measured in wins and losses.
You say we have a tougher team but we have looked pretty soft the last two weeks.
I think mangini supporters are more anal then me.
Again, that's such a short-sighted, piece of shit response, REBEL.
We're so much more physical with Mangini than we ever were with Crennel. I'm also talking about mental toughness which Mangini has helped to instill in this team as well. When things were going badly last year, the team played through it and it paid off with solid efforts in the last six games or so. That never happened for Crennel or Davis or Palmer when things started to get ugly.
So we have looked soft the last two weeks. Yep, you're right and that's what we should base it on alone. Never mind the fact that when this team was fully healthy on both lines it beat up teams in the trenches like New England, New Orleans, and Baltimore. But let's just base it on 120 minutes of football that wasn't so good.
As far as wins and losses go, I am assuming you would fire Chan Gailey, Steve Spagnuolo, Jim Schwartz, and Ken Whisenhunt after this year, too? Because those guys are failures with wins and losses as well.
Never mind that each of these coaches have faced their own pieces of adversity and extenuating circumstances. I mean how can these guys win when they lose their top two quarterbacks to injury, have only one viable running back, no gamebreakers at wide receiver, have lost three key members of their front seven to injury on defense, and their biggest special teams/WildDawg threat has been playing on a bum wheel the last half of the season?
Oh, that's only the case here in Cleveland? Really? Well, bring in Gruden to drop some pixie dust on this roster and voila, we'll be printin' Super Bowl tickets before you know it.
...searching for Nev Chandler..."5,4,3,2,1, Touchdown Browns!! -
These guys need to learn how to have fun out there. The teams that win on a consistent basis have fun doing what they're doing. A lot of people could tell right away that was one of the things wrong with Bret Favre this year. He wasn't playing with energy he wasn't having the fun he used to have year in and year out. Where this team gets into trouble is they don't play every play like it's their last one ever. If they would do that with each play this team would be in the division race or at least leaving the flaky Jets on the outside looking in for the wild card. When these young guys learn to play every single play like it's their very last play in their lives they will be consistent in all aspects of the game. Does that mind set come from the coach? Maybe from a philosophical stand point. But fellas, let's be real it's not like ol' EM has a XBox 360 controller controlling every block, pass, run, or tackle. He can try to instill the values that's it. It's up to the ones that play the game to put it into motion.
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in this business its measured in wins and losses.
You say we have a tougher team but we have looked pretty soft the last two weeks.
I think mangini supporters are more anal then me.
Again, that's such a short-sighted, piece of shit response, REBEL.
We're so much more physical with Mangini than we ever were with Crennel. I'm also talking about mental toughness which Mangini has helped to instill in this team as well. When things were going badly last year, the team played through it and it paid off with solid efforts in the last six games or so. That never happened for Crennel or Davis or Palmer when things started to get ugly.
So we have looked soft the last two weeks. Yep, you're right and that's what we should base it on alone. Never mind the fact that when this team was fully healthy on both lines it beat up teams in the trenches like New England, New Orleans, and Baltimore. But let's just base it on 120 minutes of football that wasn't so good.
As far as wins and losses go, I am assuming you would fire Chan Gailey, Steve Spagnuolo, Jim Schwartz, and Ken Whisenhunt after this year, too? Because those guys are failures with wins and losses as well.
Never mind that each of these coaches have faced their own pieces of adversity and extenuating circumstances. I mean how can these guys win when they lose their top two quarterbacks to injury, have only one viable running back, no gamebreakers at wide receiver, have lost three key members of their front seven to injury on defense, and their biggest special teams/WildDawg threat has been playing on a bum wheel the last half of the season?
Oh, that's only the case here in Cleveland? Really? Well, bring in Gruden to drop some pixie dust on this roster and voila, we'll be printin' Super Bowl tickets before you know it.
Again, that's such a short-sighted, piece of shit response, REBEL.
We're so much more physical with Mangini than we ever were with Crennel. I'm also talking about mental toughness which Mangini has helped to instill in this team as well. When things were going badly last year, the team played through it and it paid off with solid efforts in the last six games or so. That never happened for Crennel or Davis or Palmer when things started to get ugly.
So we have looked soft the last two weeks. Yep, you're right and that's what we should base it on alone. Never mind the fact that when this team was fully healthy on both lines it beat up teams in the trenches like New England, New Orleans, and Baltimore. But let's just base it on 120 minutes of football that wasn't so good.
As far as wins and losses go, I am assuming you would fire Chan Gailey, Steve Spagnuolo, Jim Schwartz, and Ken Whisenhunt after this year, too? Because those guys are failures with wins and losses as well.
Never mind that each of these coaches have faced their own pieces of adversity and extenuating circumstances. I mean how can these guys win when they lose their top two quarterbacks to injury, have only one viable running back, no gamebreakers at wide receiver, have lost three key members of their front seven to injury on defense, and their biggest special teams/WildDawg threat has been playing on a bum wheel the last half of the season?
Oh, that's only the case here in Cleveland? Really? Well, bring in Gruden to drop some pixie dust on this roster and voila, we'll be printin' Super Bowl tickets before you know it.
Your basing success on 180 mins of football.
OK, I'm with you guys wins and losses don't count. Get the parents to make a tunnel for the team to run through and bust out the orange slices. Participation trophy's to follow.
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Again, that's such a short-sighted, piece of shit response, REBEL.
We're so much more physical with Mangini than we ever were with Crennel. I'm also talking about mental toughness which Mangini has helped to instill in this team as well. When things were going badly last year, the team played through it and it paid off with solid efforts in the last six games or so. That never happened for Crennel or Davis or Palmer when things started to get ugly.
So we have looked soft the last two weeks. Yep, you're right and that's what we should base it on alone. Never mind the fact that when this team was fully healthy on both lines it beat up teams in the trenches like New England, New Orleans, and Baltimore. But let's just base it on 120 minutes of football that wasn't so good.
As far as wins and losses go, I am assuming you would fire Chan Gailey, Steve Spagnuolo, Jim Schwartz, and Ken Whisenhunt after this year, too? Because those guys are failures with wins and losses as well.
Never mind that each of these coaches have faced their own pieces of adversity and extenuating circumstances. I mean how can these guys win when they lose their top two quarterbacks to injury, have only one viable running back, no gamebreakers at wide receiver, have lost three key members of their front seven to injury on defense, and their biggest special teams/WildDawg threat has been playing on a bum wheel the last half of the season?
Oh, that's only the case here in Cleveland? Really? Well, bring in Gruden to drop some pixie dust on this roster and voila, we'll be printin' Super Bowl tickets before you know it.
Your basing success on 180 mins of football.
OK, I'm with you guys wins and losses don't count. Get the parents to make a tunnel for the team to run through and bust out the orange slices. Participation trophy's to follow.
Your basing success on 180 mins of football.
OK, I'm with you guys wins and losses don't count. Get the parents to make a tunnel for the team to run through and bust out the orange slices. Participation trophy's to follow.
That's just my point, you dope. My argument isn't any more valid than REBEL's is.
You have to look at the whole picture. Not just wins and losses, not just one or two games in a season. Every season takes on its own identity. You have ups and downs, injuries, near misses, thrilling wins, frustrating losses, etc.
With what the expectations were for this season, with what's happened to this thin roster as the season's worn on, with Colt McCoy's surprising emergence, with Josh Cribbs's contributions being nil the last half of the season, etc., I am encouraged by what I see for the future with EM as our coach.
Remember, we still have holes in our personnel at many areas on the field:
Right guard
Right tackle
#1 wide receiver
Backup running back
Defensive end
Defensive end
Inside linebacker
Nickel corner
Why are we 5-9? Because of poor coaching alone? Is that really the argument from those that want to fire Coach Mangini? Seriously, how many organizations in this league would swap out their roster for ours? And before you go crucifying Mangini about the '09 draft (which was terrible and why he no longer runs the draft/scouting) understand that this roster has NEVER been stocked with talent at the key positions since we've been back in '99.
This is the first year we have had a good, deep draft that has had immediate impact and promising impact for the long-term.
We have ten-year starters at three key positions. That's clear after just fourteen regular season games. Heckert did a great job in his first go-round here in Cleveland.
Give Mangini more talent via the draft and free agency and this team will be a playoff contender in 2011. Period.
Does anybody here realize how deep and talented the AFC is? It's damn difficult to make the playoffs. You might have two 12-4 WILDCARDS this year. There's a good chance the Browns will have played ALL SIX playoff teams in the AFC this year. That's eight games, half the schedule. Let that marinate for a moment.
To make the playoffs in this conference with a roster thin on talent, nearly everything has to fall right and you have to take advantage of the breaks you get (easy schedule, catching a banged-up/reeling team at the right time, etc.) to be in the hunt in December. I am not making excuses here. I'm simply stating what is common knowledge. The Browns were on the cusp of doing this until Fujita's injury, Stuckey's fumble, Jones-Drew's screen pass rumble, and Colt's turned ankle. Boom, just like that, any chances this team had to contend were gone. Mediocre teams can't afford these bad breaks at key times. Good teams can and usually do overcome them. The Browns arent' there YET with Mangini, but with more talent at the right positions next year they COULD be.
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I am all for bringing back Mangini. Record aside, this team is clearly a more competitive team than the one we all watched last year. There has been improvement on both sides of the ball. The one thing that hasn't changed is the terrible offensive play calling. Daboll needs to be fired and they need to get a real OC to replace him. I've heard complaints about the defense, but I have to say that the defense is playing well...especially for the amount of time they are forced to stay on the field. The Browns are getting destroyed when it comes to TOP. The Offense isn't consistantly sustaining drives. The defense is playing tired and still keeping the Browns in games. With a solid draft this year, and Colt under center with a new OC, and the continued progress of the current young roster, this team should challenge in the division next year and have a shot at the playoffs. If they replace Mangini and start over again, we are looking at another year or 2 below .500.
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in this business its measured in wins and losses.
You say we have a tougher team but we have looked pretty soft the last two weeks.
I think mangini supporters are more anal then me.
Again, that's such a short-sighted, piece of shit response, REBEL.
We're so much more physical with Mangini than we ever were with Crennel. I'm also talking about mental toughness which Mangini has helped to instill in this team as well. When things were going badly last year, the team played through it and it paid off with solid efforts in the last six games or so. That never happened for Crennel or Davis or Palmer when things started to get ugly.
So we have looked soft the last two weeks. Yep, you're right and that's what we should base it on alone. Never mind the fact that when this team was fully healthy on both lines it beat up teams in the trenches like New England, New Orleans, and Baltimore. But let's just base it on 120 minutes of football that wasn't so good.
As far as wins and losses go, I am assuming you would fire Chan Gailey, Steve Spagnuolo, Jim Schwartz, and Ken Whisenhunt after this year, too? Because those guys are failures with wins and losses as well.
Never mind that each of these coaches have faced their own pieces of adversity and extenuating circumstances. I mean how can these guys win when they lose their top two quarterbacks to injury, have only one viable running back, no gamebreakers at wide receiver, have lost three key members of their front seven to injury on defense, and their biggest special teams/WildDawg threat has been playing on a bum wheel the last half of the season?
Oh, that's only the case here in Cleveland? Really? Well, bring in Gruden to drop some pixie dust on this roster and voila, we'll be printin' Super Bowl tickets before you know it.
Again, that's such a short-sighted, piece of shit response, REBEL.
We're so much more physical with Mangini than we ever were with Crennel. I'm also talking about mental toughness which Mangini has helped to instill in this team as well. When things were going badly last year, the team played through it and it paid off with solid efforts in the last six games or so. That never happened for Crennel or Davis or Palmer when things started to get ugly.
So we have looked soft the last two weeks. Yep, you're right and that's what we should base it on alone. Never mind the fact that when this team was fully healthy on both lines it beat up teams in the trenches like New England, New Orleans, and Baltimore. But let's just base it on 120 minutes of football that wasn't so good.
As far as wins and losses go, I am assuming you would fire Chan Gailey, Steve Spagnuolo, Jim Schwartz, and Ken Whisenhunt after this year, too? Because those guys are failures with wins and losses as well.
Never mind that each of these coaches have faced their own pieces of adversity and extenuating circumstances. I mean how can these guys win when they lose their top two quarterbacks to injury, have only one viable running back, no gamebreakers at wide receiver, have lost three key members of their front seven to injury on defense, and their biggest special teams/WildDawg threat has been playing on a bum wheel the last half of the season?
Oh, that's only the case here in Cleveland? Really? Well, bring in Gruden to drop some pixie dust on this roster and voila, we'll be printin' Super Bowl tickets before you know it.
I like how you mangini supports grasp for what ever you can to make an arugment.
"So we have looked soft the last two weeks. Yep, you're right and that's what we should base it on alone. Never mind the fact that when this team was fully healthy on both lines it beat up teams in the trenches like New England, New Orleans, and Baltimore. But let's just base it on 120 minutes of football that wasn't so good."
Hey numb nuts, Im actually judging him on the last two years.. I use the last two games as an example with all you homo's saying how hard we play.. This is still a bottom line business, and yes alot of it is determined by wins and losses.
Your one of the mangini supporters who use smoke and mirrors in there posts.
"Oh, that's only the case here in Cleveland? Really? Well, bring in Gruden to drop some pixie dust on this roster and voila, we'll be printin' Super Bowl tickets before you know it."
Not pixie dust dick weed, but gruden would bring in something called offense. You do know that when we have the ball, we are on offense right?
'IM DREAMING OF A JON GRUDEN, JUST LIKE THE ONE FROM TAMPA BAY"
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Ok I put an asterisk by my previous statement at the beginning of the thread.
Sound, I think is has been requested before by Ballpeen and I would like to second the motion. How bout consolidating the Mangini coaching debate posts into a single thread? There are a ton of insightful posts
being contributed and this would make viewing those opinions more manageable for lazy folks like me not wanting to miss any of the action.
Sound, I think is has been requested before by Ballpeen and I would like to second the motion. How bout consolidating the Mangini coaching debate posts into a single thread? There are a ton of insightful posts
being contributed and this would make viewing those opinions more manageable for lazy folks like me not wanting to miss any of the action.
UGH ok haha im a lazy asshole today but ill work on it!
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Again, that's such a short-sighted, piece of shit response, REBEL.
We're so much more physical with Mangini than we ever were with Crennel. I'm also talking about mental toughness which Mangini has helped to instill in this team as well. When things were going badly last year, the team played through it and it paid off with solid efforts in the last six games or so. That never happened for Crennel or Davis or Palmer when things started to get ugly.
So we have looked soft the last two weeks. Yep, you're right and that's what we should base it on alone. Never mind the fact that when this team was fully healthy on both lines it beat up teams in the trenches like New England, New Orleans, and Baltimore. But let's just base it on 120 minutes of football that wasn't so good.
As far as wins and losses go, I am assuming you would fire Chan Gailey, Steve Spagnuolo, Jim Schwartz, and Ken Whisenhunt after this year, too? Because those guys are failures with wins and losses as well.
Never mind that each of these coaches have faced their own pieces of adversity and extenuating circumstances. I mean how can these guys win when they lose their top two quarterbacks to injury, have only one viable running back, no gamebreakers at wide receiver, have lost three key members of their front seven to injury on defense, and their biggest special teams/WildDawg threat has been playing on a bum wheel the last half of the season?
Oh, that's only the case here in Cleveland? Really? Well, bring in Gruden to drop some pixie dust on this roster and voila, we'll be printin' Super Bowl tickets before you know it.
I like how you mangini supports grasp for what ever you can to make an arugment.
"So we have looked soft the last two weeks. Yep, you're right and that's what we should base it on alone. Never mind the fact that when this team was fully healthy on both lines it beat up teams in the trenches like New England, New Orleans, and Baltimore. But let's just base it on 120 minutes of football that wasn't so good."
Hey numb nuts, Im actually judging him on the last two years.. I use the last two games as an example with all you homo's saying how hard we play.. This is still a bottom line business, and yes alot of it is determined by wins and losses.
Your one of the mangini supporters who use smoke and mirrors in there posts.
"Oh, that's only the case here in Cleveland? Really? Well, bring in Gruden to drop some pixie dust on this roster and voila, we'll be printin' Super Bowl tickets before you know it."
Not pixie dust dick weed, but gruden would bring in something called offense. You do know that when we have the ball, we are on offense right?
'IM DREAMING OF A JON GRUDEN, JUST LIKE THE ONE FROM TAMPA BAY"
I like how you mangini supports grasp for what ever you can to make an arugment.
"So we have looked soft the last two weeks. Yep, you're right and that's what we should base it on alone. Never mind the fact that when this team was fully healthy on both lines it beat up teams in the trenches like New England, New Orleans, and Baltimore. But let's just base it on 120 minutes of football that wasn't so good."
Hey numb nuts, Im actually judging him on the last two years.. I use the last two games as an example with all you homo's saying how hard we play.. This is still a bottom line business, and yes alot of it is determined by wins and losses.
Your one of the mangini supporters who use smoke and mirrors in there posts.
"Oh, that's only the case here in Cleveland? Really? Well, bring in Gruden to drop some pixie dust on this roster and voila, we'll be printin' Super Bowl tickets before you know it."
Not pixie dust dick weed, but gruden would bring in something called offense. You do know that when we have the ball, we are on offense right?
'IM DREAMING OF A JON GRUDEN, JUST LIKE THE ONE FROM TAMPA BAY"
Judging on the last two years, huh?
Okay, then.
Then answer a few questions for me:
1) Is this team better off now than it was in January 2009 when Eric Mangini was hired?
2) What do you think Jon Gruden's record would be here in Cleveland and why, had he been hired instead of Mangini in January 2009?
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I like how you mangini supports grasp for what ever you can to make an arugment.
"So we have looked soft the last two weeks. Yep, you're right and that's what we should base it on alone. Never mind the fact that when this team was fully healthy on both lines it beat up teams in the trenches like New England, New Orleans, and Baltimore. But let's just base it on 120 minutes of football that wasn't so good."
Hey numb nuts, Im actually judging him on the last two years.. I use the last two games as an example with all you homo's saying how hard we play.. This is still a bottom line business, and yes alot of it is determined by wins and losses.
Your one of the mangini supporters who use smoke and mirrors in there posts.
"Oh, that's only the case here in Cleveland? Really? Well, bring in Gruden to drop some pixie dust on this roster and voila, we'll be printin' Super Bowl tickets before you know it."
Not pixie dust dick weed, but gruden would bring in something called offense. You do know that when we have the ball, we are on offense right?
'IM DREAMING OF A JON GRUDEN, JUST LIKE THE ONE FROM TAMPA BAY"
Judging on the last two years, huh?
Okay, then.
Then answer a few questions for me:
1) Is this team better off now than it was in January 2009 when Eric Mangini was hired?
2) What do you think Jon Gruden's record would be here in Cleveland and why, had he been hired instead of Mangini in January 2009?
Judging on the last two years, huh?
Okay, then.
Then answer a few questions for me:
1) Is this team better off now than it was in January 2009 when Eric Mangini was hired?
2) What do you think Jon Gruden's record would be here in Cleveland and why, had he been hired instead of Mangini in January 2009?
1) I have answered many times, yes they are better.
2) jon jon, can get the most out of his talent. I know he wouldn't have come here in 2009..
I really don't want to talk abour mr gruden or speculate anymore. I'm just going to wait and see what happens.
Happy holidays
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Judging on the last two years, huh?
Okay, then.
Then answer a few questions for me:
1) Is this team better off now than it was in January 2009 when Eric Mangini was hired?
2) What do you think Jon Gruden's record would be here in Cleveland and why, had he been hired instead of Mangini in January 2009?
1) I have answered many times, yes they are better.
2) jon jon, can get the most out of his talent. I know he wouldn't have come here in 2009..
I really don't want to talk abour mr gruden or speculate anymore. I'm just going to wait and see what happens.
Happy holidays
I really don't want to talk abour mr gruden or speculate anymore. I'm just going to wait and see what happens.
promise?
thank God.
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Why are so many Browns fans willing to settle for mediocrity and are almost happy with it? You mean to tell it's wrong to expect a 2-3 win improvement for a coach taking over a 4-12 team.
No, it's wrong to measure improvement solely based on wins and losses.
And no one is settling for mediocrity. Did you really expect this team to go to the playoffs this year? Did you really? Then you should have your freakin' head examined. Look at the roster for crying out loud. This team wasn't going anywhere this year with Vince Lombardi as the HC, Bill Walsh as the OC, and Bill Belichick/Dick LeBeau as co-DCs.
What were your expectations going in? Mine were for a better level of competitiveness and more wins, hopefully 7-9, 8-8. Again, hopefully. Are we more competitive against good teams? Absolutely. Are we going to win 7 or 8? No. But were we far from that plateau when you look at the games? Obviously not. Close games, the entire year against good and bad. One play here or there. Stuckey's fumble, Kasay's doink-job, Wallace's pick-six. That's life in the NFL.
Even the good teams have had their share of ups and downs. Take Pittsburgh for example. Lucky to win at Buffalo. Lucky to win at Miami. Lost a close one against New York. Lost at New Orleans. Lost at home big-time to New England. Obviously, they have had more ups than downs, but inconsistency reigns in the NFL especially when you don't have playmakers at key positions. Hell, they went from SB champs to out of the playoffs in one season. Need I say more?
If the Browns are 5-11 next year with an easier schedule, another Heckert draft, and a full year of Colt at QB, then hell yes nobody, not even the staunchest EM supporters should be settling for that. Then, and only then, can we justifiably talk about EM being shown the door.
Damn, I just hate it when people refuse to recognize the fact that EM has been the ONLY coach here willing to do a rebuild the right way: clean up the roster/locker room, acquire more draft picks, and instill a tougher, more disciplined and consistent approach to the game. And now because we have lost to Buffalo and Cincy in consecutive weeks, it's clear we're not making progress in Year 2 of a FULL FLEDGED REBUILD? Bullshit.
No, it's wrong to measure improvement solely based on wins and losses.
And no one is settling for mediocrity. Did you really expect this team to go to the playoffs this year? Did you really? Then you should have your freakin' head examined. Look at the roster for crying out loud. This team wasn't going anywhere this year with Vince Lombardi as the HC, Bill Walsh as the OC, and Bill Belichick/Dick LeBeau as co-DCs.
What were your expectations going in? Mine were for a better level of competitiveness and more wins, hopefully 7-9, 8-8. Again, hopefully. Are we more competitive against good teams? Absolutely. Are we going to win 7 or 8? No. But were we far from that plateau when you look at the games? Obviously not. Close games, the entire year against good and bad. One play here or there. Stuckey's fumble, Kasay's doink-job, Wallace's pick-six. That's life in the NFL.
Even the good teams have had their share of ups and downs. Take Pittsburgh for example. Lucky to win at Buffalo. Lucky to win at Miami. Lost a close one against New York. Lost at New Orleans. Lost at home big-time to New England. Obviously, they have had more ups than downs, but inconsistency reigns in the NFL especially when you don't have playmakers at key positions. Hell, they went from SB champs to out of the playoffs in one season. Need I say more?
If the Browns are 5-11 next year with an easier schedule, another Heckert draft, and a full year of Colt at QB, then hell yes nobody, not even the staunchest EM supporters should be settling for that. Then, and only then, can we justifiably talk about EM being shown the door.
Damn, I just hate it when people refuse to recognize the fact that EM has been the ONLY coach here willing to do a rebuild the right way: clean up the roster/locker room, acquire more draft picks, and instill a tougher, more disciplined and consistent approach to the game. And now because we have lost to Buffalo and Cincy in consecutive weeks, it's clear we're not making progress in Year 2 of a FULL FLEDGED REBUILD? Bullshit.
Your thinking is brilliant.........two problems Mangini is defensive minded and Holmgren is offensive minded ................and WAY MORE IMPORTANT.........Mangini got here first and Holmgren has a huge ego and wants to be credited for the turnaround...............and Mangini is an obstacle in that
So now it is convenient to eliminate the obstacle Mangini
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I must be "different". As a Browns fan I want them to get to the playoffs in a year or two max. I want them to stay in the playoff's about 70-80% of the time from then on. I want them to be able to consistently beat the teams in their division. I want them to have a good mix of younger and older talent. I want them to have a front office that is second to none. I want them to have coaches that expect to win AND DO WIN with whatever talent they have....coaches that will figure out a way to win with the players they have, come those "short on talent years" or unexpected injuries. I want depth in all positions which requires good drafting and an understanding of player personnel GIVEN THE TALENT AND HEALTHY PLAYERS PRESENT THAT YEAR. I want some real stars, game changers on both sides of the ball. But most of all, I want fans that expect/demand greatness and aren't willing to wait for their 6 year old to graduate from college before the Browns have a once-a-decade playoff experience.
WINNING grows success, not getting a little better each year. Winning attitudes, work ethic and RESULTS maintain success. In the end, it has to be all about winning. Having "competitors" is great, but it only achieves the desired results if those "competitors" are also "winners". What if next year we get great talent and 4-5 key players get hurt. Then we are going to hear how Mangini shouldn't be held responsible and he should get another chance. Other coaches and players win with whoever they have BECAUSE THEY ARE WINNERS. Indy is a good example this year. Just look at how they dealt with their offensive injuries and losses. Their record has suffered but they are still in a tie for the top of their division.
Pittsburgh and Baltimore have twice the wins we do at this point in the season. "Being competitive" to the Browns should mean we can compete with the Steelers and Ravens AT WINNING, not losing like Cincy, Buffalo, etc. It also means, even if we have a 10 win season, but we are still 3rd in the division it has been an unacceptable season.
Oh and by the way, the whole "Mangenius" thing was born when Mangini turned a team around in O-N-E year.
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I must be "different". As a Browns fan I want them to get to the playoffs in a year or two max. I want them to stay in the playoff's about 70-80% of the time from then on. I want them to be able to consistently beat the teams in their division. I want them to have a good mix of younger and older talent. I want them to have a front office that is second to none. I want them to have coaches that expect to win AND DO WIN with whatever talent they have....coaches that will figure out a way to win with the players they have, come those "short on talent years" or unexpected injuries. I want depth in all positions which requires good drafting and an understanding of player personnel GIVEN THE TALENT AND HEALTHY PLAYERS PRESENT THAT YEAR. I want some real stars, game changers on both sides of the ball. But most of all, I want fans that expect/demand greatness and aren't willing to wait for their 6 year old to graduate from college before the Browns have a once-a-decade playoff experience.
WINNING grows success, not getting a little better each year. Winning attitudes, work ethic and RESULTS maintain success. In the end, it has to be all about winning. Having "competitors" is great, but it only achieves the desired results if those "competitors" are also "winners". What if next year we get great talent and 4-5 key players get hurt. Then we are going to hear how Mangini shouldn't be held responsible and he should get another chance. Other coaches and players win with whoever they have BECAUSE THEY ARE WINNERS. Indy is a good example this year. Just look at how they dealt with their offensive injuries and losses. Their record has suffered but they are still in a tie for the top of their division.
Pittsburgh and Baltimore have twice the wins we do at this point in the season. "Being competitive" to the Browns should mean we can compete with the Steelers and Ravens AT WINNING, not losing like Cincy, Buffalo, etc. It also means, even if we have a 10 win season, but we are still 3rd in the division it has been an unacceptable season.
Oh and by the way, the whole "Mangenius" thing was born when Mangini turned a team around in O-N-E year.
I must be "different". As a Browns fan I want them to get to the playoffs in a year or two max. I want them to stay in the playoff's about 70-80% of the time from then on. I want them to be able to consistently beat the teams in their division. I want them to have a good mix of younger and older talent. I want them to have a front office that is second to none. I want them to have coaches that expect to win AND DO WIN with whatever talent they have....coaches that will figure out a way to win with the players they have, come those "short on talent years" or unexpected injuries. I want depth in all positions which requires good drafting and an understanding of player personnel GIVEN THE TALENT AND HEALTHY PLAYERS PRESENT THAT YEAR. I want some real stars, game changers on both sides of the ball. But most of all, I want fans that expect/demand greatness and aren't willing to wait for their 6 year old to graduate from college before the Browns have a once-a-decade playoff experience.
WINNING grows success, not getting a little better each year. Winning attitudes, work ethic and RESULTS maintain success. In the end, it has to be all about winning. Having "competitors" is great, but it only achieves the desired results if those "competitors" are also "winners". What if next year we get great talent and 4-5 key players get hurt. Then we are going to hear how Mangini shouldn't be held responsible and he should get another chance. Other coaches and players win with whoever they have BECAUSE THEY ARE WINNERS. Indy is a good example this year. Just look at how they dealt with their offensive injuries and losses. Their record has suffered but they are still in a tie for the top of their division.
Pittsburgh and Baltimore have twice the wins we do at this point in the season. "Being competitive" to the Browns should mean we can compete with the Steelers and Ravens AT WINNING, not losing like Cincy, Buffalo, etc. It also means, even if we have a 10 win season, but we are still 3rd in the division it has been an unacceptable season.
Oh and by the way, the whole "Mangenius" thing was born when Mangini turned a team around in O-N-E year.
i want. i want.
wow that's not too much to ask for.........how about world peace and 0% unemployment?
you're delusional.
how did those teams (that you mention, like indy...........oh btw way how are they doing right now with no running game and a ton of injuries............exactly) get to be the franchises they are today? let's see: an owner who listens to football people and will spend money, a gm that is very smart on the personnel end and a HC that gets a chance to implement his system. sounds like something we've got going on now right?
do they fire everybody because this didn't happen in two years, NO!!! how are you going to make all of these blockbuster trades when there is no one of value to trade?
oh and show me a tougher division in all of football? or a tougher schedule than what we've played? tick tock.........waiting.
how is there going to be cohesiveness with the offense or defense (within your system) just hire the most expensive and extravagant players and personnel and when it doesn't work out, shit can them. either you and wrrebel are still getting breast fed or you were born with a silver spoon in your mouth and know nothing about the real world.
yeah i want a million dollars and bjs from meagan fox everyday....... sure it'd be real nice but Fing be realistic.
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in this business its measured in wins and losses.
You say we have a tougher team but we have looked pretty soft the last two weeks.
I think mangini supporters are more anal then me.
Again, that's such a short-sighted, piece of shit response, REBEL.
We're so much more physical with Mangini than we ever were with Crennel. I'm also talking about mental toughness which Mangini has helped to instill in this team as well. When things were going badly last year, the team played through it and it paid off with solid efforts in the last six games or so. That never happened for Crennel or Davis or Palmer when things started to get ugly.
So we have looked soft the last two weeks. Yep, you're right and that's what we should base it on alone. Never mind the fact that when this team was fully healthy on both lines it beat up teams in the trenches like New England, New Orleans, and Baltimore. But let's just base it on 120 minutes of football that wasn't so good.
As far as wins and losses go, I am assuming you would fire Chan Gailey, Steve Spagnuolo, Jim Schwartz, and Ken Whisenhunt after this year, too? Because those guys are failures with wins and losses as well.
Never mind that each of these coaches have faced their own pieces of adversity and extenuating circumstances. I mean how can these guys win when they lose their top two quarterbacks to injury, have only one viable running back, no gamebreakers at wide receiver, have lost three key members of their front seven to injury on defense, and their biggest special teams/WildDawg threat has been playing on a bum wheel the last half of the season?
Oh, that's only the case here in Cleveland? Really? Well, bring in Gruden to drop some pixie dust on this roster and voila, we'll be printin' Super Bowl tickets before you know it.
Again, that's such a short-sighted, piece of shit response, REBEL.
As far as wins and losses go, I am assuming you would fire Chan Gailey, Steve Spagnuolo, Jim Schwartz, and Ken Whisenhunt after this year, too? Because those guys are failures with wins and losses as well.
Never mind that each of these coaches have faced their own pieces of adversity and extenuating circumstances. I mean how can these guys win when they lose their top two quarterbacks to injury, have only one viable running back, no gamebreakers at wide receiver, have lost three key members of their front seven to injury on defense, and their biggest special teams/WildDawg threat has been playing on a bum wheel the last half of the season?
Oh, that's only the case here in Cleveland? Really? Well, bring in Gruden to drop some pixie dust on this roster and voila, we'll be printin' Super Bowl tickets before you know it.
I finally think our friend is backing off his contention Gruden could have made shinola out of shit this year. Yup, just let Jon the Genius loose, and we'd be right up there in offensive production with what we've got on the offensive side of the ball. Run the WCO without the horses to pull it off.
The Browns have played the toughest schedule in the NFL this year, and it's not even debatable. They've had all three quarterbacks hurt. They're playing with a joke (St Clair) at RT, the defensive captain has missed significant time. You could make a pretty good case Massaquoi would be the #3 wr on a bunch of teams, and a #2 on most. Mangini's not making excuses for playing the losing hand he's been dealt.
So let's look at the poster boy 2010 NFL turnarounds for a second, shall we? The Chiefs and Rams. Ahem, can we say shades of the 10-6 Anderception Browns? Relative powder-puff schedules. Lets start with the Lambs. They already had Laurinaitis & Jackson- should I mention their O-line has been intact the entire season? Let's see, lost to the only tough teams on their schedule- Saints & Falcons by an average of 17.5 points. (Apples to apples, the Browns lost to Atlanta by 10) AND THE FREAKING DETROIT LIONS BEAT THEM BY 38- GO LOOK IT UP. (Browns gotten blown out by 38 this year? Didn't think so.) Now on to the mighty Kitchen Chefs. They've beaten exactly one team with a winning record- that would be the Jaguars- at home. Needed a pick 6 to beat the Browns. Assuming they make the playoffs, the likely wild-cards- the Jets or Ravens will kill them.
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mikeyP72 said:
Larry, I'd agree with everything you said about strength of schedule and progress if we would have beat Cincy and Buffalo. The last two weeks have made looking at this season with optimism very ROUGH.I've always said when it comes to NFL football, "I'd rather be lucky than good." Lucky AND good can win you a Super Bowl. Unlucky and mediocre gets you 5-9 like the Browns.
Well, the Browns are still very much a team trying to make their way in the NFL wilderness. And not trying to have it both ways I think Buddy Ryan said, "ain't no Coastal Carolinas in the NFL."
Buffalo we got another "bad Jake", and that's certainly on Mangini.
Bengals? They were Division champs last year- and give 'em credit- they mightily exposed the Browns weaknesses- like zero pass rush from the front seven, weakness @ LB to fill gaps in the shaky D-line to stop Benson, and no viable wrs to take the pressure off of Hillis amounting to a sub par game by Peyton.
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mikeyP72 said:
Larry, I'd agree with everything you said about strength of schedule and progress if we would have beat Cincy and Buffalo. The last two weeks have made looking at this season with optimism very ROUGH.I've always said when it comes to NFL football, "I'd rather be lucky than good." Lucky AND good can win you a Super Bowl. Unlucky and mediocre gets you 5-9 like the Browns.
Well, the Browns are still very much a team trying to make their way in the NFL wilderness. And not trying to have it both ways I think Buddy Ryan said, "ain't no Coastal Carolinas in the NFL."
Buffalo we got another "bad Jake", and that's certainly on Mangini.
Bengals? They were Division champs last year- and give 'em credit- they mightily exposed the Browns weaknesses- like zero pass rush from the front seven, weakness @ LB to fill gaps in the shaky D-line to stop Benson, and no viable wrs to take the pressure off of Hillis amounting to a sub par game by Peyton.
I've always said when it comes to NFL football, "I'd rather be lucky than good." Lucky AND good can win you a Super Bowl. Unlucky and mediocre gets you 5-9 like the Browns.
Well, the Browns are still very much a team trying to make their way in the NFL wilderness. And not trying to have it both ways I think Buddy Ryan said, "ain't no Coastal Carolinas in the NFL."
Buffalo we got another "bad Jake", and that's certainly on Mangini.
Bengals? They were Division champs last year- and give 'em credit- they mightily exposed the Browns weaknesses- like zero pass rush from the front seven, weakness @ LB to fill gaps in the shaky D-line to stop Benson, and no viable wrs to take the pressure off of Hillis amounting to a sub par game by Peyton.
When you really take a hard look at how teams have had success against us since the second half of the Jets game it's been pretty simple: run right at us. The Jets murdered us on TOP in the second half. Jones-Drew rambled on us. Carolina had success running the football. Miami's stupid game plan called for more Henne and less WildDawg, but Ronnie Brown/Ricky Williams chewed up the yardage. Then the last two weeks happened as well.
That's not scheming, folks, when you get run over. That's my guys are better than your guys, you can't stop us. Ironically, it's how we were winning games last December. This year, with the loss of Yates, Pashos on offense and Robaire and Fujita on defense, it ain't happening up front.
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If Mangini wants to make a solid case for him to stay the Browns coach, then I would like for him to fire Daboll and hire a good OC. Otherwise, he simply should go.
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