Bye Bye Mangini
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Exactly what I've been saying John. The revolving door has got to stop sometime, and I hope it's now. We're in year two of a total rebuild, and because they're aren't (to some folks here's minds) instant results let's blow it up again and start over.
Some folks might not like Mangini's style- but it will win games- IF you don't make killing mistakes. The Browns were on their way until Massaquoi got stripped, and Colt threw the pick. B-more goes on a long drive, tires out an undermanned defense and the rest is history.
Problem is, it's not Holmgren's style and Holmgren is the boss. The only way Walrus keeps rolling without his guys and his systems is if the Browns are winning. It looks like we'll go from 5-11 to 5-11. The Chiefs went from winning 10 games in three years to probably winning 11 in 2010. The Rams went from 1-15 to probably 8-8 and a division championship.
That's the league we play in... not one where 4-12 to 5-11 to 5-11 is considered progress. Worse, the Browns closed really, really badly, not on a four-game winning streak like last year. Nobody made it rough on Holmgren.
This is the Holmgren era, not the Mangini era.
Problem is, it's not Holmgren's style and Holmgren is the boss. The only way Walrus keeps rolling without his guys and his systems is if the Browns are winning. It looks like we'll go from 5-11 to 5-11. The Chiefs went from winning 10 games in three years to probably winning 11 in 2010. The Rams went from 1-15 to probably 8-8 and a division championship.
That's the league we play in... not one where 4-12 to 5-11 to 5-11 is considered progress. Worse, the Browns closed really, really badly, not on a four-game winning streak like last year. Nobody made it rough on Holmgren.
This is the Holmgren era, not the Mangini era.
Yeah Shep look a little closer- the mighty turnaround Chiefs have played one team with a winning record. Shades of Anderceptions "miracle" 10-6. And the Rams aren't much better- they got blown out by 38 by the freaking Detroit Lions. The Browns have played seven of the ten teams with the best records in the NFL (2 of them twice- and beaten the Pats and Saints) so if you want to tell me the Rams and Chiefs would still be sporting those records if they had played the Browns murderers row, dream on. & FWIW, KC needed a pick 6 to beat the Browns.
And I wouldn't be so certain Holmgren is totally married into "his" system, and "his" guys.
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Problem is, it's not Holmgren's style and Holmgren is the boss. The only way Walrus keeps rolling without his guys and his systems is if the Browns are winning. It looks like we'll go from 5-11 to 5-11. The Chiefs went from winning 10 games in three years to probably winning 11 in 2010. The Rams went from 1-15 to probably 8-8 and a division championship.
That's the league we play in... not one where 4-12 to 5-11 to 5-11 is considered progress. Worse, the Browns closed really, really badly, not on a four-game winning streak like last year. Nobody made it rough on Holmgren.
This is the Holmgren era, not the Mangini era.
Yeah Shep look a little closer- the mighty turnaround Chiefs have played one team with a winning record. Shades of Anderceptions "miracle" 10-6. And the Rams aren't much better- they got blown out by 38 by the freaking Detroit Lions. The Browns have played seven of the ten teams with the best records in the NFL (2 of them twice- and beaten the Pats and Saints) so if you want to tell me the Rams and Chiefs would still be sporting those records if they had played the Browns murderers row, dream on. & FWIW, KC needed a pick 6 to beat the Browns.
And I wouldn't be so certain Holmgren is totally married into "his" system, and "his" guys.
Yeah Shep look a little closer- the mighty turnaround Chiefs have played one team with a winning record. Shades of Anderceptions "miracle" 10-6. And the Rams aren't much better- they got blown out by 38 by the freaking Detroit Lions. The Browns have played seven of the ten teams with the best records in the NFL (2 of them twice- and beaten the Pats and Saints) so if you want to tell me the Rams and Chiefs would still be sporting those records if they had played the Browns murderers row, dream on. & FWIW, KC needed a pick 6 to beat the Browns.
And I wouldn't be so certain Holmgren is totally married into "his" system, and "his" guys.
I made this same point 2 weeks ago, don't be surprised if your very good point gets ignored.
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Problem is, it's not Holmgren's style and Holmgren is the boss. The only way Walrus keeps rolling without his guys and his systems is if the Browns are winning. It looks like we'll go from 5-11 to 5-11. The Chiefs went from winning 10 games in three years to probably winning 11 in 2010. The Rams went from 1-15 to probably 8-8 and a division championship.
That's the league we play in... not one where 4-12 to 5-11 to 5-11 is considered progress. Worse, the Browns closed really, really badly, not on a four-game winning streak like last year. Nobody made it rough on Holmgren.
This is the Holmgren era, not the Mangini era.
Yeah Shep look a little closer- the mighty turnaround Chiefs have played one team with a winning record. Shades of Anderceptions "miracle" 10-6. And the Rams aren't much better- they got blown out by 38 by the freaking Detroit Lions. The Browns have played seven of the ten teams with the best records in the NFL (2 of them twice- and beaten the Pats and Saints) so if you want to tell me the Rams and Chiefs would still be sporting those records if they had played the Browns murderers row, dream on. & FWIW, KC needed a pick 6 to beat the Browns.
And I wouldn't be so certain Holmgren is totally married into "his" system, and "his" guys.
Yeah Shep look a little closer- the mighty turnaround Chiefs have played one team with a winning record. Shades of Anderceptions "miracle" 10-6. And the Rams aren't much better- they got blown out by 38 by the freaking Detroit Lions. The Browns have played seven of the ten teams with the best records in the NFL (2 of them twice- and beaten the Pats and Saints) so if you want to tell me the Rams and Chiefs would still be sporting those records if they had played the Browns murderers row, dream on. & FWIW, KC needed a pick 6 to beat the Browns.
And I wouldn't be so certain Holmgren is totally married into "his" system, and "his" guys.
He's a lifetime WCO guy. I have no testicles left to bet (meaning I should know better), but if I did, I'd bet on two things: Mangini is gone and we're running a WCO with McCoy next year. Holmgren won't fail in Cleveland with somebody else's systems. He bleeds WCO.
I get the variables, injuries and schedule. But in the end, nobody gives a shit about excuses, even valid ones. The Browns once again had one of the worst offenses in the NFL, something a Walsh disciple like Holmgren will not just live with.
From where I sit: Holmgren, WCO, McCoy, A.J. Green or Julio Jones. Other high level additions (draft and f/a): RT, DE, and LB. Four positions, two FA and the top two picks.
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It's not the Browns... it's the NFL. If you follow up 5-11 with 5-11 and a very uninspired last several games, you're either fired or damn lucky, period. It's a fact.
But this situation is unusual because this is the Holmgren era in Cleveland, not the Mangini era. I'd guess that 9 of 10 "experts" were stunned that Holmgren didn't bring in his own people and his own systems, which would be totally understandable. Now he will... and should.
It's not much in the way of starting over if Holmgren moves to the sideline and Haskell becomes OC... and let's be brutally honest: Mangini and Daboll are NOT Holmgren and Haskell. They've accomplished nothing in this league. Holmgren has been to THREE Super Bowls and won one. Few coaches can match that.
The Rams and Chiefs weren't thought to be exactly talent-laden... but both are gonna be in the playoffs after several dismal years. The Browns have lots of good players -- Thomas, Steinbach, Mack, Watson, Vickers, Hillis, McCoy, Rubin, Rogers, Gocong, Benard, Fujita, Brown, Haden, Ward, Cribbs, and Dawson are all very, VERY good football players. Yes, we have a gaping hole at WR and need help at RT. Sure, we need another LB and a DE. But that's not nearly the talent deficit so many here wanna claim to excuse Mangini.
The Chiefs went into this year thought to be weak just about everywhere but RB. I lived there for 17 years and I have scads of super-fan friends who said the team was a mess. Now they're 10-5.
It's not the Browns. It's reality in the NFL.
It's not the Browns... it's the NFL. If you follow up 5-11 with 5-11 and a very uninspired last several games, you're either fired or damn lucky, period. It's a fact.
But this situation is unusual because this is the Holmgren era in Cleveland, not the Mangini era. I'd guess that 9 of 10 "experts" were stunned that Holmgren didn't bring in his own people and his own systems, which would be totally understandable. Now he will... and should.
It's not much in the way of starting over if Holmgren moves to the sideline and Haskell becomes OC... and let's be brutally honest: Mangini and Daboll are NOT Holmgren and Haskell. They've accomplished nothing in this league. Holmgren has been to THREE Super Bowls and won one. Few coaches can match that.
The Rams and Chiefs weren't thought to be exactly talent-laden... but both are gonna be in the playoffs after several dismal years. The Browns have lots of good players -- Thomas, Steinbach, Mack, Watson, Vickers, Hillis, McCoy, Rubin, Rogers, Gocong, Benard, Fujita, Brown, Haden, Ward, Cribbs, and Dawson are all very, VERY good football players. Yes, we have a gaping hole at WR and need help at RT. Sure, we need another LB and a DE. But that's not nearly the talent deficit so many here wanna claim to excuse Mangini.
The Chiefs went into this year thought to be weak just about everywhere but RB. I lived there for 17 years and I have scads of super-fan friends who said the team was a mess. Now they're 10-5.
It's not the Browns. It's reality in the NFL.
I have come to beleive we may have some of the dumbest fans in the NFL. They say New York fans are the smartest and except for a few of the Browns fans who actually get it, the rest aren't very smart..
5 ans 11 is 5 and 11 anyway you draw it up.. AND for those tools who say were listening to the media or ESPN, sorry wrong! I dont need ESPN to tell me 5 and 11 is a losing season..
Mangini is an over glorified ball boy! He is not a genious and has not evolved from New York. We have enough talent to win. No not a play off team but not a 5-11 team either.
It's like this, if you were dating a girl for 2 years and new she wasnt the one, would you keep on dating her for stability? Probably some of you fools would probably marry her!
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It's not the Browns... it's the NFL. If you follow up 5-11 with 5-11 and a very uninspired last several games, you're either fired or damn lucky, period. It's a fact.
But this situation is unusual because this is the Holmgren era in Cleveland, not the Mangini era. I'd guess that 9 of 10 "experts" were stunned that Holmgren didn't bring in his own people and his own systems, which would be totally understandable. Now he will... and should.
It's not much in the way of starting over if Holmgren moves to the sideline and Haskell becomes OC... and let's be brutally honest: Mangini and Daboll are NOT Holmgren and Haskell. They've accomplished nothing in this league. Holmgren has been to THREE Super Bowls and won one. Few coaches can match that.
The Rams and Chiefs weren't thought to be exactly talent-laden... but both are gonna be in the playoffs after several dismal years. The Browns have lots of good players -- Thomas, Steinbach, Mack, Watson, Vickers, Hillis, McCoy, Rubin, Rogers, Gocong, Benard, Fujita, Brown, Haden, Ward, Cribbs, and Dawson are all very, VERY good football players. Yes, we have a gaping hole at WR and need help at RT. Sure, we need another LB and a DE. But that's not nearly the talent deficit so many here wanna claim to excuse Mangini.
The Chiefs went into this year thought to be weak just about everywhere but RB. I lived there for 17 years and I have scads of super-fan friends who said the team was a mess. Now they're 10-5.
It's not the Browns. It's reality in the NFL.
I have come to beleive we may have some of the dumbest fans in the NFL. They say New York fans are the smartest and except for a few of the Browns fans who actually get it, the rest aren't very smart..
5 ans 11 is 5 and 11 anyway you draw it up.. AND for those tools who say were listening to the media or ESPN, sorry wrong! I dont need ESPN to tell me 5 and 11 is a losing season..
Mangini is an over glorified ball boy! He is not a genious and has not evolved from New York. We have enough talent to win. No not a play off team but not a 5-11 team either.
It's like this, if you were dating a girl for 2 years and new she wasnt the one, would you keep on dating her for stability? Probably some of you fools would probably marry her!
I have come to beleive we may have some of the dumbest fans in the NFL. They say New York fans are the smartest and except for a few of the Browns fans who actually get it, the rest aren't very smart..
5 ans 11 is 5 and 11 anyway you draw it up.. AND for those tools who say were listening to the media or ESPN, sorry wrong! I dont need ESPN to tell me 5 and 11 is a losing season..
Mangini is an over glorified ball boy! He is not a genious and has not evolved from New York. We have enough talent to win. No not a play off team but not a 5-11 team either.
It's like this, if you were dating a girl for 2 years and new she wasnt the one, would you keep on dating her for stability? Probably some of you fools would probably marry her!
I am beginning to think you are 12 years old.
Luck is Tim Couch. Big, Dumb Goofy, slow thinking QB - Ghoolie, 2-28-12 -
I have come to beleive we may have some of the dumbest fans in the NFL. They say New York fans are the smartest and except for a few of the Browns fans who actually get it, the rest aren't very smart..
5 ans 11 is 5 and 11 anyway you draw it up.. AND for those tools who say were listening to the media or ESPN, sorry wrong! I dont need ESPN to tell me 5 and 11 is a losing season..
Mangini is an over glorified ball boy! He is not a genious and has not evolved from New York. We have enough talent to win. No not a play off team but not a 5-11 team either.
It's like this, if you were dating a girl for 2 years and new she wasnt the one, would you keep on dating her for stability? Probably some of you fools would probably marry her!
I am beginning to think you are 12 years old.
I am beginning to think you are 12 years old.
I am begining to think you have demensia!
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It's not the Browns... it's the NFL. If you follow up 5-11 with 5-11 and a very uninspired last several games, you're either fired or damn lucky, period. It's a fact.
But this situation is unusual because this is the Holmgren era in Cleveland, not the Mangini era. I'd guess that 9 of 10 "experts" were stunned that Holmgren didn't bring in his own people and his own systems, which would be totally understandable. Now he will... and should.
It's not much in the way of starting over if Holmgren moves to the sideline and Haskell becomes OC... and let's be brutally honest: Mangini and Daboll are NOT Holmgren and Haskell. They've accomplished nothing in this league. Holmgren has been to THREE Super Bowls and won one. Few coaches can match that.
The Rams and Chiefs weren't thought to be exactly talent-laden... but both are gonna be in the playoffs after several dismal years. The Browns have lots of good players -- Thomas, Steinbach, Mack, Watson, Vickers, Hillis, McCoy, Rubin, Rogers, Gocong, Benard, Fujita, Brown, Haden, Ward, Cribbs, and Dawson are all very, VERY good football players. Yes, we have a gaping hole at WR and need help at RT. Sure, we need another LB and a DE. But that's not nearly the talent deficit so many here wanna claim to excuse Mangini.
The Chiefs went into this year thought to be weak just about everywhere but RB. I lived there for 17 years and I have scads of super-fan friends who said the team was a mess. Now they're 10-5.
It's not the Browns. It's reality in the NFL.
I have come to beleive we may have some of the dumbest fans in the NFL. They say New York fans are the smartest and except for a few of the Browns fans who actually get it, the rest aren't very smart..
5 ans 11 is 5 and 11 anyway you draw it up.. AND for those tools who say were listening to the media or ESPN, sorry wrong! I dont need ESPN to tell me 5 and 11 is a losing season..
Mangini is an over glorified ball boy! He is not a genious and has not evolved from New York. We have enough talent to win. No not a play off team but not a 5-11 team either.
It's like this, if you were dating a girl for 2 years and new she wasnt the one, would you keep on dating her for stability? Probably some of you fools would probably marry her!
It's like this, if you were dating a girl for 2 years and new she wasnt the one, would you keep on dating her for stability? Probably some of you fools would probably marry her!
So being a fan is like marriage ?
Well I ain't buying that . Marriage and stability have run afoul in my life . But I am still a Browns fan . I don't need some pants pisser like you to explain it for me .
What a putz
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It's like this, if you were dating a girl for 2 years and new she wasnt the one, would you keep on dating her for stability? Probably some of you fools would probably marry her!
So being a fan is like marriage ?
Well I ain't buying that . Marriage and stability have run afoul in my life . But I am still a Browns fan . I don't need some pants pisser like you to explain it for me .
What a putz
So being a fan is like marriage ?
Well I ain't buying that . Marriage and stability have run afoul in my life . But I am still a Browns fan . I don't need some pants pisser like you to explain it for me .
What a putz
Maybe I should try drawing it for you in craynon..
"Of course I peed my pants, everyone my age pees their pants. It's the coolest!"
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It's not the Browns... it's the NFL. If you follow up 5-11 with 5-11 and a very uninspired last several games, you're either fired or damn lucky, period. It's a fact.
But this situation is unusual because this is the Holmgren era in Cleveland, not the Mangini era. I'd guess that 9 of 10 "experts" were stunned that Holmgren didn't bring in his own people and his own systems, which would be totally understandable. Now he will... and should.
It's not much in the way of starting over if Holmgren moves to the sideline and Haskell becomes OC... and let's be brutally honest: Mangini and Daboll are NOT Holmgren and Haskell. They've accomplished nothing in this league. Holmgren has been to THREE Super Bowls and won one. Few coaches can match that.
The Rams and Chiefs weren't thought to be exactly talent-laden... but both are gonna be in the playoffs after several dismal years. The Browns have lots of good players -- Thomas, Steinbach, Mack, Watson, Vickers, Hillis, McCoy, Rubin, Rogers, Gocong, Benard, Fujita, Brown, Haden, Ward, Cribbs, and Dawson are all very, VERY good football players. Yes, we have a gaping hole at WR and need help at RT. Sure, we need another LB and a DE. But that's not nearly the talent deficit so many here wanna claim to excuse Mangini.
The Chiefs went into this year thought to be weak just about everywhere but RB. I lived there for 17 years and I have scads of super-fan friends who said the team was a mess. Now they're 10-5.
It's not the Browns. It's reality in the NFL.
I have come to beleive we may have some of the dumbest fans in the NFL. They say New York fans are the smartest and except for a few of the Browns fans who actually get it, the rest aren't very smart..
5 ans 11 is 5 and 11 anyway you draw it up.. AND for those tools who say were listening to the media or ESPN, sorry wrong! I dont need ESPN to tell me 5 and 11 is a losing season..
Mangini is an over glorified ball boy! He is not a genious and has not evolved from New York. We have enough talent to win. No not a play off team but not a 5-11 team either.
It's like this, if you were dating a girl for 2 years and new she wasnt the one, would you keep on dating her for stability? Probably some of you fools would probably marry her!
I have come to beleive we may have some of the dumbest fans in the NFL. They say New York fans are the smartest and except for a few of the Browns fans who actually get it, the rest aren't very smart..
I literally just fell out of my chair laughing... "They" must be the N.Y. media.. You need to get outside your N.Y. bubble...
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I have come to beleive we may have some of the dumbest fans in the NFL. They say New York fans are the smartest and except for a few of the Browns fans who actually get it, the rest aren't very smart..
5 ans 11 is 5 and 11 anyway you draw it up.. AND for those tools who say were listening to the media or ESPN, sorry wrong! I dont need ESPN to tell me 5 and 11 is a losing season..
Mangini is an over glorified ball boy! He is not a genious and has not evolved from New York. We have enough talent to win. No not a play off team but not a 5-11 team either.
It's like this, if you were dating a girl for 2 years and new she wasnt the one, would you keep on dating her for stability? Probably some of you fools would probably marry her!
I am beginning to think you are 12 years old.
I am beginning to think you are 12 years old.
Its not him, Gruden and son called him, told him to post that.......
Either way, yes, I agree, I am beginning to think the same thing about Browns fans. Constant changes every 2-3 years....SB or bust.......must be from OH to be worthy of playing for the Browns...honestly, I'm surprised i havent seen a post hoping Pryor declairs so we can draft him first round to replace Colt and his "week arm." Agreed, some Browns fans need commited......
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some of you seem to be forgetting that even keeping mangini when holmgren took over was a big suprise. not many gms and presidents keep a coach they didn't pick. i liked mangini, but lets face it, hes made some bad decisions, most notably keeping dabol going into this year, as well as some poor clock management.
odds are he'll be let go after this season, and seeing as how the other year gruden was practically auditioning for the job that one game, and the fact that hes trained up by holmgren, it's likely he'll be in talks for the job
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some of you seem to be forgetting that even keeping mangini when holmgren took over was a big suprise. not many gms and presidents keep a coach they didn't pick. i liked mangini, but lets face it, hes made some bad decisions, most notably keeping dabol going into this year, as well as some poor clock management.
odds are he'll be let go after this season, and seeing as how the other year gruden was practically auditioning for the job that one game, and the fact that hes trained up by holmgren, it's likely he'll be in talks for the job
some of you seem to be forgetting that even keeping mangini when holmgren took over was a big suprise. not many gms and presidents keep a coach they didn't pick. i liked mangini, but lets face it, hes made some bad decisions, most notably keeping dabol going into this year, as well as some poor clock management.
odds are he'll be let go after this season, and seeing as how the other year gruden was practically auditioning for the job that one game, and the fact that hes trained up by holmgren, it's likely he'll be in talks for the job
A suprise to who exactly? ESPN and other forms of media thats who. I was not surprised. That said, I won't be surprised if Mangini is fired this year- but it doesn't mean I have to agree with it...
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I really think some of you have to be friends or relatives of Mangini. That is the only way to understand your loyalty..
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Chill out folks we stank for ten years and Sewage made the stank unstinkable..............
it takes a lot of work to remake a team that HAD NOTHING NOTHING and that is what Savage left
Mangini is a good coach and focuses on defense.................Holmgren was a good coach and he focused on OFFENSE
SINCE OFFENSE wins championships and Holmgren gets that(btw he is the boss) and most NFL fans drinlking the cool aid don't get it
My guess is we hire a guy a that is Offensive Minded and let Mangini go
And that is what it is ....................
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I find it hard to believe NFL management is deciding who will or won't be the coach by how loud the fans are complaining on some forum.
This is not logical. If management believes they have the right man in charge they wouldn't care how much a bunch of us complain.
Changes will not be decided by arm chair quarterbacks and Holmgren knows that.
If you belive he is taking into consideration what some forum members think your an idiot. Come on!
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Good post Shep and Larry. But we are beating our heads againat the wall every year.
First Mangini inherited the crap Sewage left him and did admrably to make it competitive
But staying in games and losing is not winning that's what happens when you play defensive football
Holmgren knows offensive football wins championships
my guess is he will create an offensive team to just that..............with a coach who thinks likewise.........
and Heckert is already onboard
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I'd like to think Lerner wants the Browns to be in the playoff's every year. I would like to think he hired Holmgren to do that. I would like to think Holmgren WILL make a big difference in Cleveland. I would like to think Cleveland fans would put more faith in him and less faith in the Mangenious who became the Mangenious when he turned a team around in his first year, but has done little since. If Mangini is such a genius why aren't the Browns winning more this year. (Time to hear about our poor talent etc.).
In Holmgren I trust. In Mangini we rust.
The one and only time losing is acceptable is when it involves your virginity. -
some of you seem to be forgetting that even keeping mangini when holmgren took over was a big suprise. not many gms and presidents keep a coach they didn't pick. i liked mangini, but lets face it, hes made some bad decisions, most notably keeping dabol going into this year, as well as some poor clock management.
odds are he'll be let go after this season, and seeing as how the other year gruden was practically auditioning for the job that one game, and the fact that hes trained up by holmgren, it's likely he'll be in talks for the job
some of you seem to be forgetting that even keeping mangini when holmgren took over was a big suprise. not many gms and presidents keep a coach they didn't pick. i liked mangini, but lets face it, hes made some bad decisions, most notably keeping dabol going into this year, as well as some poor clock management.
odds are he'll be let go after this season, and seeing as how the other year gruden was practically auditioning for the job that one game, and the fact that hes trained up by holmgren, it's likely he'll be in talks for the job
So when Gruden takes over and we lose more and more games every year like he did in Tampa for 3 years how long will it take before you all throw him under the bus to?
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some of you seem to be forgetting that even keeping mangini when holmgren took over was a big suprise. not many gms and presidents keep a coach they didn't pick. i liked mangini, but lets face it, hes made some bad decisions, most notably keeping dabol going into this year, as well as some poor clock management.
odds are he'll be let go after this season, and seeing as how the other year gruden was practically auditioning for the job that one game, and the fact that hes trained up by holmgren, it's likely he'll be in talks for the job
So when Gruden takes over and we lose more and more games every year like he did in Tampa for 3 years how long will it take before you all throw him under the bus to?
So when Gruden takes over and we lose more and more games every year like he did in Tampa for 3 years how long will it take before you all throw him under the bus to?
The same thing can be used to bash Mangini.. 10-6, 9-7, 5-11 5-11
Can you at least tell me what grudens record was the last two years in Tampa? 9 and 7..
Gruden would crush you in a arm wrestling match!
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I am beginning to think you are 12 years old.
I am begining to think you have demensia!
I am begining to think you have demensia!
Ok let me say this. And maybe you can put it up on your crayon board. I won't list what these coaches have done after this because if you don't you don't need to be here. Please don't make me go back and research the strength of schedule and draft pics of these coaches in the year they finally broke .500.
1. Tom Landry - Recorded an 0–11–1 record during their first season, with five or fewer wins in each of their next four.
2. Chuck Noll - 1-13 in his coaching rookie season (age 37 mind you), 5-9 his second season and 6 - 8 his third.
3. Bill Parcells - 3 -12 - 1 in his rookie season.
4. Bud Grant - 3 -8 - 3 in his rookie season.
7. Jeff Fisher - 1 - 5 in his rookie season and 7 - 9 in his second season.
8. Tony Dungy - 6 -10 in his rookie season.
9. Tom Coughlin - 6 - 10 in his rookie season with the Giants.
The list goes on. John Gruden, .540 career winning percentage, below Jim Mora and Dennis Green. I will give Gruden credit here, he went in and won with a Al Davis team, which I find remarkable. Now I like Gruden and he is a good coach, but you don't know what you have in a coach handed a horrible team with a horrible GM and horrible picks. Gruden was very fortunate to be handed 2 very good teams. His inconsistency shows in his record with the Bucs. Now you have the Walrus making those decisions and this team WILL be a winner with Mangini.
This team is 7 - 9 with 5 - 6 different plays. You saw what this team can do against the Pats and Saints. I see nothing but progression from a team that has regressed EVERY year due to coaching changes and bad GM moves. We have our guys NOW let's see what they can do. Come on BROWNS!
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