2011 COACHING AND FRONT OFFICE MOVEMENT
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I don't get this at all. Just about everybody cheered when Holmgren and Heckert came on board. On the national scale, it was unanimously stamped as a huge "get" by the Cleveland Browns, a chance to follow the lead of guys who ran elite franchises and consistent winners, like the Packers and Eagles. They were "real football people."
Now these two guys we like so much, who just had a draft we love, have chosen a guy from their own family tree, a guy they know really, really well, a guy who was the QB coach on an very successful Eagles offense running Holmgren's WCO, a guy following a traditional career path (WCO QB coaches always end up head coaches)...
And we're pissed? Seriously? After three consecutive defensive coaches have failed to create any consistent success? We don't like the idea of our three head guys all being on the same page, all believing in the same systems, unlike last year?
I don't get it. I went into this wanting Holmgren to select the Holmgren WCO guy of his choice. Gruden, Shurmur, McCoy, Sherman, Mornhinweg... the one he believed in most. Gruden recused himself. From the others, Holmgren chose Shurmur.
Great. I'm in.
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Pat Shurmur?
He is the only candidate the Browns could woo.
Mike Tomlin and John Harbaugh just high-fived each other.
Surf and Turf said:
Pat Shurmur?He is the only candidate the Browns could woo.
Mike Tomlin and John Harbaugh just high-fived each other.
Yep.
Because when Tomlin was hired EVERYONE knew him. He was a household name and all of pittspuke rejoiced.
And when they introduced Harbaugh everyone marveled, "You mean Jim has a brother?"
You're a moron.
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Pat shurmurs projected staff
OC Himmler
DC Joseph Goebbels
rommel as equipment manager? dude was a gentleman.
once a fan, always a fan. married to a steeler fan. aaaaaaaaah! --andy -
I don't get this at all. Just about everybody cheered when Holmgren and Heckert came on board. On the national scale, it was unanimously stamped as a huge "get" by the Cleveland Browns, a chance to follow the lead of guys who ran elite franchises and consistent winners, like the Packers and Eagles. They were "real football people."
Now these two guys we like so much, who just had a draft we love, have chosen a guy from their own family tree, a guy they know really, really well, a guy who was the QB coach on an very successful Eagles offense running Holmgren's WCO, a guy following a traditional career path (WCO QB coaches always end up head coaches)...
And we're pissed? Seriously? After three consecutive defensive coaches have failed to create any consistent success? We don't like the idea of our three head guys all being on the same page, all believing in the same systems, unlike last year?
I don't get it. I went into this wanting Holmgren to select the Holmgren WCO guy of his choice. Gruden, Shurmur, McCoy, Sherman, Mornhinweg... the one he believed in most. Gruden recused himself. From the others, Holmgren chose Shurmur.
Great. I'm in.
I don't get this at all. Just about everybody cheered when Holmgren and Heckert came on board. On the national scale, it was unanimously stamped as a huge "get" by the Cleveland Browns, a chance to follow the lead of guys who ran elite franchises and consistent winners, like the Packers and Eagles. They were "real football people."
Now these two guys we like so much, who just had a draft we love, have chosen a guy from their own family tree, a guy they know really, really well, a guy who was the QB coach on an very successful Eagles offense running Holmgren's WCO, a guy following a traditional career path (WCO QB coaches always end up head coaches)...
And we're pissed? Seriously? After three consecutive defensive coaches have failed to create any consistent success? We don't like the idea of our three head guys all being on the same page, all believing in the same systems, unlike last year?
I don't get it. I went into this wanting Holmgren to select the Holmgren WCO guy of his choice. Gruden, Shurmur, McCoy, Sherman, Mornhinweg... the one he believed in most. Gruden recused himself. From the others, Holmgren chose Shurmur.
Great. I'm in.
I'm with you. I was on the Gruden train for awhile until it was apparent he wasn't going to take the job and who can blame him, he's making plenty of money to work about a third of the hours.
I liked the idea of the Eagles OC when it was mentioned but ultimately I'm going with what Holmgren thinks as he knows a shitload more about football than I do and now as you said, our coach, GM and President are all on the same page for the first time.
I'm in as well...
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rommel as equipment manager? dude was a gentleman.
Looks like Hillis already has the March down to fit in with the staff
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HAHAHA
cant be any worse than Daboll...
Really? Daboll's much maligned offense outscored his over two seasons and he was OC in the putrid NFC west.
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I'm on the same page as Shep....As fans, even the most knowledgeable don't know SQUAT compared to Holmgren & Heckert. I'll live with their decision. Actually, when was the last time we had REAL football people, & successful ones at that, bringing in a Head Coach who is on the same page they are. This is not an inherited HC, but one of their choice. I'll trust their judgment because they can back it up with solid track records.
I have to admit that I'm not a big Rob Ryan fan & I'm VERY interested in who will be the DC....Ryan, or ???
Mike
I'm on the same page as Shep....As fans, even the most knowledgeable don't know SQUAT compared to Holmgren & Heckert. I'll live with their decision. Actually, when was the last time we had REAL football people, & successful ones at that, bringing in a Head Coach who is on the same page they are. This is not an inherited HC, but one of their choice. I'll trust their judgment because they can back it up with solid track records.
I have to admit that I'm not a big Rob Ryan fan & I'm VERY interested in who will be the DC....Ryan, or ???
Mike
Since we are still paying Mangini why not let him be the DC? He is not getting another head coaching job any time soon!
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I'm on the same page as Shep....As fans, even the most knowledgeable don't know SQUAT compared to Holmgren & Heckert. I'll live with their decision. Actually, when was the last time we had REAL football people, & successful ones at that, bringing in a Head Coach who is on the same page they are. This is not an inherited HC, but one of their choice. I'll trust their judgment because they can back it up with solid track records.
I have to admit that I'm not a big Rob Ryan fan & I'm VERY interested in who will be the DC....Ryan, or ???
Mike
Since we are still paying Mangini why not let him be the DC? He is not getting another head coaching job any time soon!
Since we are still paying Mangini why not let him be the DC? He is not getting another head coaching job any time soon!
Cause that never happens. You would have a HUGE potential of a divided locker room..
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Are we really sure this is the guy? This does not sound good!
listen close starting at the 0:48 second mark!
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@king-ghoolie-lives said:
Who are you to say he isn't ideal?Can you actually name a specific recipe that guarantees that a coach will be successful? I haven't seen such a thing and don't think anyone else here has either.
Are you telling me Cowher, Belichik, Jimmie Johnson, Holmgren, Tomlin, Madden, Landry and Dungy ALL fit this magic ideal recipe?
The only thing about this guy that isn't ideal is that you don't think highly of him.
From my vantage point there are a lto of things going for him.
He's young, energetic, he's an offensive minded guy, AND, he isn't someone's retread.
Give him a chance. I'm behind the guy if it's him, and GRUDEN would have been a guaranteed failure.
Who am I? I'm a fan that is sick of getting our crappy team handed over to UN-proven hacks from other organizations. Shumur is from Holmgren's good ole boy network and for all we know he got the job SOLELY because of that. We could have waited to vet other guys. I still said I will wait to reserve (further) judgment--and this guy has one season, starting NOW to prove otherwise.
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Are we really sure this is the guy? This does not sound good!
listen close starting at the 0:48 second mark!
Are we really sure this is the guy? This does not sound good!
listen close starting at the 0:48 second mark!
How much weight are we going to put on Fan opinion before the man even gets here? Once again, we have proven PROS in Holmgren & Heckert deciding on an HC. One thing not yet mentioned is the importance of GOOD Coordinators. A Head Coach will never win on his merits alone. We need an HC who is NOT a control freak, but one who surrounds himself with EXCELLENT Coordinators. The really successful teams are staffed with great Coordinators & a Head Coach who respects & utilizes their knowledge. I believe the biggest change we may see with our new FO is a far more credible staff at the "hands on" level. Let's wait & see.
Mike
IN DORSEY I TRUST -
@king-ghoolie-lives said:
Who are you to say he isn't ideal?Can you actually name a specific recipe that guarantees that a coach will be successful? I haven't seen such a thing and don't think anyone else here has either.
Are you telling me Cowher, Belichik, Jimmie Johnson, Holmgren, Tomlin, Madden, Landry and Dungy ALL fit this magic ideal recipe?
The only thing about this guy that isn't ideal is that you don't think highly of him.
From my vantage point there are a lto of things going for him.
He's young, energetic, he's an offensive minded guy, AND, he isn't someone's retread.
Give him a chance. I'm behind the guy if it's him, and GRUDEN would have been a guaranteed failure.
Who am I? I'm a fan that is sick of getting our crappy team handed over to UN-proven hacks from other organizations. Shumur is from Holmgren's good ole boy network and for all we know he got the job SOLELY because of that. We could have waited to vet other guys. I still said I will wait to reserve (further) judgment--and this guy has one season, starting NOW to prove otherwise.
Who am I? I'm a fan that is sick of getting our crappy team handed over to UN-proven hacks from other organizations. Shumur is from Holmgren's good ole boy network and for all we know he got the job SOLELY because of that. We could have waited to vet other guys. I still said I will wait to reserve (further) judgment, and this ex-OC has one season, starting NOW.
He's not from Holmgren's ole boy network but from Lamonte's stable that Grossi's been crowing about all season.
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I love this move now. Why? Football is entertainment. The unknown is well...entertaining. I'd love to be that team that takes a nobody and makes him a household name.
LETS DO THIS DAMMIT!
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Maybe if the new hires all fail as so many of you predict, Mangini can come back to replace Holmgren, Rob Ryan can replace Heckert and Daboll can replace Shurmur. Then the dream team would finally be in place.
Time for someone to go post a Hitler Rant Parody concerning Shurmur's hiring on Youtube.
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Are we really sure this is the guy? This does not sound good!
listen close starting at the 0:48 second mark!
How much weight are we going to put on Fan opinion before the man even gets here? Once again, we have proven PROS in Holmgren & Heckert deciding on an HC. One thing not yet mentioned is the importance of GOOD Coordinators. A Head Coach will never win on his merits alone. We need an HC who is NOT a control freak, but one who surrounds himself with EXCELLENT Coordinators. The really successful teams are staffed with great Coordinators & a Head Coach who respects & utilizes their knowledge. I believe the biggest change we may see with our new FO is a far more credible staff at the "hands on" level. Let's wait & see.
Mike
How much weight are we going to put on Fan opinion before the man even gets here? Once again, we have proven PROS in Holmgren & Heckert deciding on an HC. One thing not yet mentioned is the importance of GOOD Coordinators. A Head Coach will never win on his merits alone. We need an HC who is NOT a control freak, but one who surrounds himself with EXCELLENT Coordinators. The really successful teams are staffed with great Coordinators & a Head Coach who respects & utilizes their knowledge. I believe the biggest change we may see with our new FO is a far more credible staff at the "hands on" level. Let's wait & see.
Mike
Holmgren is a pro COACH......last I checked, this is first czar position. He has no track record for picking coaches.....yet.
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I'd still trust that a guy who has had success as a pro coach would know what it takes to be a successful pro coach. I'm successful at my job and I'm extremely confident that I could interview and find someone who could be equally as successful.
I'd still trust that a guy who has had success as a pro coach would know what it takes to be a successful pro coach. I'm successful at my job and I'm extremely confident that I could interview and find someone who could be equally as successful.
I have come to the conclusion that most Cleveland fans are a bunch of moaners.
The reality is they don't know crap about any of the candidates yet they complain about picking coach X over coach Y.
In the very beginning Holmgren said he very likely would be looking for a young coach. A guy they can give the ball and let him make his own destiny.
When you think about it, most of the really good coaches were guys who weren't on the rebound from somewhere else.
Here's an idea....maybe we should complain...say a year or two from now if things aren't looking good.
For now, if he is indeed hired, just wait, watch, and listen.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. -
I'd still trust that a guy who has had success as a pro coach would know what it takes to be a successful pro coach. I'm successful at my job and I'm extremely confident that I could interview and find someone who could be equally as successful.
I have come to the conclusion that most Cleveland fans are a bunch of moaners.
The reality is they don't know crap about any of the candidates yet they complain about picking coach X over coach Y.
In the very beginning Holmgren said he very likely would be looking for a young coach. A guy they can give the ball and let him make his own destiny.
When you think about it, most of the really good coaches were guys who weren't on the rebound from somewhere else.
Here's an idea....maybe we should complain...say a year or two from now if things aren't looking good.
For now, if he is indeed hired, just wait, watch, and listen.
I have come to the conclusion that most Cleveland fans are a bunch of moaners.
The reality is they don't know crap about any of the candidates yet they complain about picking coach X over coach Y.
In the very beginning Holmgren said he very likely would be looking for a young coach. A guy they can give the ball and let him make his own destiny.
When you think about it, most of the really good coaches were guys who weren't on the rebound from somewhere else.
Here's an idea....maybe we should complain...say a year or two from now if things aren't looking good.
For now, if he is indeed hired, just wait, watch, and listen.
We always wait, watch and listen and sometimes we even dare to hope beyond hope one failed regime after another...
As an OC this guy appears to suck but as a HC who knows maybe he wont, we know nothing about shurmur other than many ram fans cant wait until he is gone but with spags as their HC there could be more than meets the eye here when it comes to scrubber ahh hmm i mean shurmur...
I dont like this hire at least not yet, not until we can see who he places at the coordinator and staff positions and that should give us a better look at what scrubber has in mind..
And yeah holmgren did indicate the extreme possibility of handing off to a young guy though i hardly consider 45 young especially when this guy shurmur has been floating silently around the league for many years without much promotion to me it usually indicates an RAC knot on the log kinda guy with no personality and even less ability to lead..
Its holmgren, heckert and lamonte's call, its on their clock and lerners wallet, regardless as expansion browns fans all we will do is bend over, spread em and smile...
The lamonte regime may prove to make the savage era look like browns fan heaven..
We will be most likely be stuck with this guy for at least 4 years for better or empty stadium..
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Prediction: Tomorrow Cleveland Browns hold press conference introducing Shurmur. When Shurmur has his talk, he sounds powerful, invigorating, and not boring (yeah I am looking at you Mangini). Then we all become excited. The end.
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