Baltimore-Pittsburgh
-
The Soldier said:
When you have to rely on legal definitions and legal double talk, you know you are splitting hairs.The poor guy who just got released from prison for a murder he never committed has now been proven innocent. He was NEVER a murderer. At one time the legal system labled him a murder. He was convicted of murder. But he never murdered anyone.
That is reality.
Now, conversely, in reality, he can never say he was never convicted of murder. He was. Everyone can go back and remove the conviction, and reword everything, but he was still convicted of murder.
The Browns moved to Baltimore. (I'm still a Browns fan) After this happened, the NFL made the necessary legal adjustments to say that is not what happened. But, it happened.
You say that you want to deal in only reality.
But it is an absolute fact based reality that the Browns franchise NEVER moved from Cleveland, Ohio.
Did Art Modell move to Baltimore? Yes.
Was he given an NFL franchise in Baltimore? Yes.
Did that new franchise take acquire certain assets that once belonged to the Cleveland Browns franchise, including chattels, player contracts that were assigned to it and certain front office personnell? Yes
Did this all happen prior to the settlement agreement with the City was reached? NO
Did it happen prior to the lifting of the injunction by the courts? NO
But also, did The Cleveland Browns franchise ALWAYS maintain its offices on Lou Groza Blvd. in Berea, Ohio? YES
Did the Cleveland Browns franchise become "inactive" on the field for a 3 year period? Yes.
But, did the Cleveland Browns franchise maintain a presence, a staff, and all other indices of an ongoing NFL franchise? YES
Did it maintain its corporate structure at all times? Yes
That's right, the guy you mentioned never did commit the murder, even though he was convicted.
And the Cleveland Browns franchise never moved, even though an attempt was made.
So, your analogy may be apropos, it is just your conclusions that are wrong.
You say that you want to deal in only reality.
But it is an absolute fact based reality that the Browns franchise NEVER moved from Cleveland, Ohio.
Did Art Modell move to Baltimore? Yes.
Was he given an NFL franchise in Baltimore? Yes.
Did Art Modell purchase a new franchise while in Baltimore? Is this the first time a person was "given" a franchise?
Did that new franchise take acquire certain assets that once belonged to the Cleveland Browns franchise, including chattels, player contracts that were assigned to it and certain front office personnell? (draft position based on the Browns record) Yes
Did this all happen prior to the settlement agreement with the City was reached? NO
Did it happen prior to the lifting of the injunction by the courts? NO
But also, did The Cleveland Browns franchise ALWAYS maintain its offices on Lou Groza Blvd. in Berea, Ohio? YES
Did the Cleveland Browns franchise become "inactive" on the field for a 3 year period? Yes.
But, did the Cleveland Browns franchise maintain a presence, a staff, and all other indices of an ongoing NFL franchise? (except players, coaches, a playing field) YES- At all times? Without any disruption?
Did it maintain its corporate structure at all times? Yes
That's right, the guy you mentioned never did commit the murder, even though he was convicted.
And the Cleveland Browns franchise never moved, even though an attempt was made.
So, your analogy may be apropos, it is just your conclusions that are wrong.
We won't agree on this.
Were you here when the Browns decided to become inactive? Remember the outcry from fans, "Don't become inactive!" Headlines; "BROWNS INACTIVATED" We were so ticked at Model for inactivating them. I remember the local radio stations talking about it, "He promised he wouldn't inactivate them!"
(on a side note, I was just reading what Lebron said about the Cavs, I think I'm starting to like the fact we decided not to resign him.)
-
I'll bet all of them. Watching the Steelers is the closest thing they can get to the playoffs.
Congrats on your new coach - did Holmgren explain to this guy that he has to play the Steelers and Ravens twice a year? That west coast shit doesn't work in cold weather DUH!
-
I will be watching every game but as far as the browns go its one and done one year of holmgren and im packin it in...
GO PACKERS! hehehehhehe
-
I'll bet all of them. Watching the Steelers is the closest thing they can get to the playoffs.
Congrats on your new coach - did Holmgren explain to this guy that he has to play the Steelers and Ravens twice a year? That west coast shit doesn't work in cold weather DUH!
Surf and Turf said:
I'll bet all of them. Watching the Steelers is the closest thing they can get to the playoffs.Congrats on your new coach - did Holmgren explain to this guy that he has to play the Steelers and Ravens twice a year? That west coast shit doesn't work in cold weather DUH!
you did an excellent job of proving your an idiot. i guess when holmgren won a superbowl in GREEN BAY WISCONSIN that wasnt a west coast offense. i guess a dumbass will squeek through the cracks past the moderators.
-
I'll bet all of them. Watching the Steelers is the closest thing they can get to the playoffs.
Congrats on your new coach - did Holmgren explain to this guy that he has to play the Steelers and Ravens twice a year? That west coast shit doesn't work in cold weather DUH!
Surf and Turf said:
I'll bet all of them. Watching the Steelers is the closest thing they can get to the playoffs.Congrats on your new coach - did Holmgren explain to this guy that he has to play the Steelers and Ravens twice a year? That west coast shit doesn't work in cold weather DUH!
I'll be watching to see if someone can literally remove Whines Hard's head from his spine..... and hoping Big Rapist literally suffers compound fractures in both his legs that require amputation. Yeah, I'm a dick, but it's the Steelers and I would feel no sympathy whatsoever if those two things occured.
-
Surf and Turf said:
I'll bet all of them. Watching the Steelers is the closest thing they can get to the playoffs.Congrats on your new coach - did Holmgren explain to this guy that he has to play the Steelers and Ravens twice a year? That west coast shit doesn't work in cold weather DUH!
you did an excellent job of proving your an idiot. i guess when holmgren won a superbowl in GREEN BAY WISCONSIN that wasnt a west coast offense. i guess a dumbass will squeek through the cracks past the moderators.
you did an excellent job of proving your an idiot. i guess when holmgren won a superbowl in GREEN BAY WISCONSIN that wasnt a west coast offense. i guess a dumbass will squeek through the cracks past the moderators.
Yah and nothing says warm weather like Seattle.
-
I'll just check the news from the volleyball tournament in hopes of that hell mouth I hear might open up under Heinz.
-
I'll bet all of them. Watching the Steelers is the closest thing they can get to the playoffs.
Congrats on your new coach - did Holmgren explain to this guy that he has to play the Steelers and Ravens twice a year? That west coast shit doesn't work in cold weather DUH!
Surf and Turf said:
I'll bet all of them. Watching the Steelers is the closest thing they can get to the playoffs.Congrats on your new coach - did Holmgren explain to this guy that he has to play the Steelers and Ravens twice a year? That west coast shit doesn't work in cold weather DUH!
We'll be down at the local watering hole wearing our official gear.
Did anyone explain you should be over on a Squealer forum discussing the big game, instead of asking BROWNS fans what we plan to do?
-
Awwww is the wittle squeeler fan that insecure about his team losing to the Ravens that he has to come onto a Browns board and remind everyone of how much better his team is then ours to gain his confidence back?
If he's this insecure about a game id hate to see what he does when he finds out his cock isnt the biggest his womans ever had pumped inside her.
If I was you I wouldn't say squat about who eyes are glued to what because we all know your eyes are glued to a Browns forum and more then likely you have it saved on your favorites bar for easy access. This way everytime some guy pushes you around you dont have to risk breaking a nail, you can come here and take out all your anger to feel like a real man again.
-
Surf and Turf said:
I'll bet all of them. Watching the Steelers is the closest thing they can get to the playoffs.Congrats on your new coach - did Holmgren explain to this guy that he has to play the Steelers and Ravens twice a year? That west coast shit doesn't work in cold weather DUH!
I'll be watching to see if someone can literally remove Whines Hard's head from his spine..... and hoping Big Rapist literally suffers compound fractures in both his legs that require amputation. Yeah, I'm a dick, but it's the Steelers and I would feel no sympathy whatsoever if those two things occured.
I'll be watching to see if someone can literally remove Whines Hard's head from his spine..... and hoping Big Rapist literally suffers compound fractures in both his legs that require amputation. Yeah, I'm a dick, but it's the Steelers and I would feel no sympathy whatsoever if those two things occured.
Agreed, pal.
-
I'll bet all of them. Watching the Steelers is the closest thing they can get to the playoffs.
Congrats on your new coach - did Holmgren explain to this guy that he has to play the Steelers and Ravens twice a year? That west coast shit doesn't work in cold weather DUH!
Surf and Turf said:
I'll bet all of them. Watching the Steelers is the closest thing they can get to the playoffs.Congrats on your new coach - did Holmgren explain to this guy that he has to play the Steelers and Ravens twice a year? That west coast shit doesn't work in cold weather DUH!
Yeah. I'll be watching.... for them to lose!
BTW your comments on not being able to run the WCO in the cold is an EPIC FAIL! What do you think they ran in Green Bay which is a hell of a lot colder than Cleveland, Ohio! Furthermore, a lot of what is in the WCO was taken from the playbook of none other than the legendary Paul Brown. -
I'll bet all of them. Watching the Steelers is the closest thing they can get to the playoffs.
Congrats on your new coach - did Holmgren explain to this guy that he has to play the Steelers and Ravens twice a year? That west coast shit doesn't work in cold weather DUH!
Surf and Turf said:
I'll bet all of them. Watching the Steelers is the closest thing they can get to the playoffs.Congrats on your new coach - did Holmgren explain to this guy that he has to play the Steelers and Ravens twice a year? That west coast shit doesn't work in cold weather DUH!
It worked for Green Bay when they ran it and won a SB with it. The Eagles have run it the whole time under Andy Reid in Philly...went to 4 conf. title games and a SB. None of those places are tropical paradises. There may be others as well.
-
quotes from the gipper in bold:
Except we know all this, and understand it, and no, we are not happy about it.
but unfortunately, you don't! EVERY offseason we Steeler fans who frequent this board have to hear how "so and so is the piece we needed to dominate, we're definately going to the superbowl now!". never do we hear you're gonna make slow steady improvement or that your shooting for a winning season.
no, we hear how your gonna dominate for the next decade.................until you lose the first 5 games of just about every season...............then we start hearing you come back to earth. so no, i don't think you understand just how crappy your team is.
Why are you so bitter/classless...however you want to describe it as to feel the necessity to do that?
for the reason stated above. everyone loves a underdog story(which the browns could be)...........no one likes a person that blows themself up to epic proportions only to fail time and time again with equally epic proportions.
You are ignorant if you don't think the fans haven't already taken all those steps.
Or maybe it is just not within our character to abandon our team....even after long many years of poor performance (as it is in yours)
OH YES YOU FREAKIN HAVE ABANDONED YOUR TEAM!!! or do i really need to post some shots of your deserted stadium (save for pockets of Steeler fans) at halftime against your division rival?
you guys DID abandon your team, and of all the things you could have done to protest............leaving your team on the field while they still had a chance to win is the one that is completely unforgivable.
you want to hurt the owners?
cancel your season tickets.
stop buying merchandise.
bury them in letters/petitions/email.
you want to hurt the actual players on the team you say you all support so much?
can't think of anything worse you could do than what was done.
so don't you EVER try that again. you lost your "well, we have a crappy team but we're supper fans and stick by them through thick and thin" card when you let your team come out to an almost entirely hostile home field that day.
think those players might remember that?
i do.
with all i've heard about Big Ben being a rapist and i go to a online sex offender registry and look up cleveland and Pittsburgh and what do i find? cleveland has a CRAP load more sex offenders (and expecially child molesters) than Pittsburgh.......over 4X as many over all. 2055 of them to Pittsburgh's 421. www.familywatchdog.us better never hear one of you date raping, can't get a woman with my tiny peep unless i hold her down, child molesting hypocrits say anything else about Ben. -
FYI to help you all pick who to "root" for (or against) in this game
Ravens- criminals who stole your team
Steelers- One of only two teams that voted against the relocation to Baltimore
I'm just sayin'
Go 'Lers said:
FYI to help you all pick who to "root" for (or against) in this gameRavens- criminals who stole your team
Steelers- One of only two teams that voted against the relocation to Baltimore
I'm just sayin'
You do notice that you have 58 posts and absolutely no thanked posts? That speaks for itself.
-
quotes from the gipper in bold:
Except we know all this, and understand it, and no, we are not happy about it.
but unfortunately, you don't! EVERY offseason we Steeler fans who frequent this board have to hear how "so and so is the piece we needed to dominate, we're definately going to the superbowl now!". never do we hear you're gonna make slow steady improvement or that your shooting for a winning season.
no, we hear how your gonna dominate for the next decade.................until you lose the first 5 games of just about every season...............then we start hearing you come back to earth. so no, i don't think you understand just how crappy your team is.
Why are you so bitter/classless...however you want to describe it as to feel the necessity to do that?
for the reason stated above. everyone loves a underdog story(which the browns could be)...........no one likes a person that blows themself up to epic proportions only to fail time and time again with equally epic proportions.
You are ignorant if you don't think the fans haven't already taken all those steps.
Or maybe it is just not within our character to abandon our team....even after long many years of poor performance (as it is in yours)
OH YES YOU FREAKIN HAVE ABANDONED YOUR TEAM!!! or do i really need to post some shots of your deserted stadium (save for pockets of Steeler fans) at halftime against your division rival?
you guys DID abandon your team, and of all the things you could have done to protest............leaving your team on the field while they still had a chance to win is the one that is completely unforgivable.
you want to hurt the owners?
cancel your season tickets.
stop buying merchandise.
bury them in letters/petitions/email.
you want to hurt the actual players on the team you say you all support so much?
can't think of anything worse you could do than what was done.
so don't you EVER try that again. you lost your "well, we have a crappy team but we're supper fans and stick by them through thick and thin" card when you let your team come out to an almost entirely hostile home field that day.
think those players might remember that?
i do.
quotes from the gipper in bold:
Except we know all this, and understand it, and no, we are not happy about it.
but unfortunately, you don't! EVERY offseason we Steeler fans who frequent this board have to hear how "so and so is the piece we needed to dominate, we're definately going to the superbowl now!". never do we hear you're gonna make slow steady improvement or that your shooting for a winning season.
I don't know what you are reading on this board. It must only be selective threads because MOST of the threads on this board do exactly what you say isn't being done. Maybe you simply ignore all that because it isn't done in the mode of Steeler troll baiting...which is the only thing you pay attention to. I would imagine that it would be mundane for you to read about the slow steady improvement threads of the Cleveland Browns. Just because you don't pay attention doesn't mean they don't exist.
no, we hear how your gonna dominate for the next decade.................until you lose the first 5 games of just about every season...............then we start hearing you come back to earth. so no, i don't think you understand just how crappy your team is.
I think, here, typically you exhibit classical Steeler fan cluelessness. NO one understands better how bad things have been here.
Maybe there is some hopefullness expressed about the future of this team. Yet you somehow feel that is a flaw amongst Browns fans expressions.
Why are you so bitter/classless...however you want to describe it as to feel the necessity to do that?
for the reason stated above. everyone loves a underdog story(which the browns could be)...........no one likes a person that blows themself up to epic proportions only to fail time and time again with equally epic proportions.
Well, at least you have admitted indeed that you are bitter and classless. Again, I think you are seeing only what you want to see. 10,000 words can be written here on a subject, yet you will only focus on the 10 words that fit your delusion.
You are ignorant if you don't think the fans haven't already taken all those steps.
Or maybe it is just not within our character to abandon our team....even after long many years of poor performance (as it is in yours)
OH YES YOU FREAKIN HAVE ABANDONED YOUR TEAM!!! or do i really need to post some shots of your deserted stadium (save for pockets of Steeler fans) at halftime against your division rival?
you guys DID abandon your team, and of all the things you could have done to protest............leaving your team on the field while they still had a chance to win is the one that is completely unforgivable.
you want to hurt the owners?
cancel your season tickets.
stop buying merchandise.
bury them in letters/petitions/email.
you want to hurt the actual players on the team you say you all support so much?
can't think of anything worse you could do than what was done.
so don't you EVER try that again. you lost your "well, we have a crappy team but we're supper fans and stick by them through thick and thin" card when you let your team come out to an almost entirely hostile home field that day.
think those players might remember that?
i do.
You know why we don't do those things? Because we are loyal. Plain and simple. We are not so gutless as to do those things.
Don't buy tickets? Don't buy merchandise?
That would be the plan of a typical fair weather fan base.
Those would be the actions of a fan base composed of a bunch of FRAKs like the Steeler fan base.
Despite your stupid statement above the Browns fans have by no means abandoned their team.
-
"You know why we don't do those things? Because we are loyal. Plain and simple. We are not so gutless as to do those things.
Don't buy tickets? Don't buy merchandise?
That would be the plan of a typical fair weather fan base.
Those would be the actions of a fan base composed of a bunch of FRAKs like the Steeler fan base.
Despite your stupid statement above the Browns fans have by no means abandoned their team. "
as i said before.............no you're not. you don't get to say that anymore. i saw your stadium empty like a old man's bowels after a jug of prune juice.
and that did NOTHING but hurt your players.
you did abandon your team. end of discussion.
now at least that you guys ARE abandoning your team at least do it to the owners and not the players.
but one thing your fanbase can never claim again is that it sticks by it's team through thick and thin............hell, you guys couldn't even stick by your team though halftime.
with all i've heard about Big Ben being a rapist and i go to a online sex offender registry and look up cleveland and Pittsburgh and what do i find? cleveland has a CRAP load more sex offenders (and expecially child molesters) than Pittsburgh.......over 4X as many over all. 2055 of them to Pittsburgh's 421. www.familywatchdog.us better never hear one of you date raping, can't get a woman with my tiny peep unless i hold her down, child molesting hypocrits say anything else about Ben. -
"You know why we don't do those things? Because we are loyal. Plain and simple. We are not so gutless as to do those things.
Don't buy tickets? Don't buy merchandise?
That would be the plan of a typical fair weather fan base.
Those would be the actions of a fan base composed of a bunch of FRAKs like the Steeler fan base.
Despite your stupid statement above the Browns fans have by no means abandoned their team. "
as i said before.............no you're not. you don't get to say that anymore. i saw your stadium empty like a old man's bowels after a jug of prune juice.
and that did NOTHING but hurt your players.
you did abandon your team. end of discussion.
now at least that you guys ARE abandoning your team at least do it to the owners and not the players.
but one thing your fanbase can never claim again is that it sticks by it's team through thick and thin............hell, you guys couldn't even stick by your team though halftime.
"You know why we don't do those things? Because we are loyal. Plain and simple. We are not so gutless as to do those things.
Don't buy tickets? Don't buy merchandise?
That would be the plan of a typical fair weather fan base.
Those would be the actions of a fan base composed of a bunch of FRAKs like the Steeler fan base.
Despite your stupid statement above the Browns fans have by no means abandoned their team. "
as i said before.............no you're not. you don't get to say that anymore. i saw your stadium empty like a old man's bowels after a jug of prune juice.
and that did NOTHING but hurt your players.
you did abandon your team. end of discussion.
now at least that you guys ARE abandoning your team at least do it to the owners and not the players.
but one thing your fanbase can never claim again is that it sticks by it's team through thick and thin............hell, you guys couldn't even stick by your team though halftime.
Like Heinz Field during the early part of the third quarter against the Patriots???
-
"You know why we don't do those things? Because we are loyal. Plain and simple. We are not so gutless as to do those things.
Don't buy tickets? Don't buy merchandise?
That would be the plan of a typical fair weather fan base.
Those would be the actions of a fan base composed of a bunch of FRAKs like the Steeler fan base.
Despite your stupid statement above the Browns fans have by no means abandoned their team. "
as i said before.............no you're not. you don't get to say that anymore. i saw your stadium empty like a old man's bowels after a jug of prune juice.
and that did NOTHING but hurt your players.
you did abandon your team. end of discussion.
now at least that you guys ARE abandoning your team at least do it to the owners and not the players.
but one thing your fanbase can never claim again is that it sticks by it's team through thick and thin............hell, you guys couldn't even stick by your team though halftime.
Like Heinz Field during the early part of the third quarter against the Patriots???
Like Heinz Field during the early part of the third quarter against the Patriots???
DOH!
-
"You know why we don't do those things? Because we are loyal. Plain and simple. We are not so gutless as to do those things.
Don't buy tickets? Don't buy merchandise?
That would be the plan of a typical fair weather fan base.
Those would be the actions of a fan base composed of a bunch of FRAKs like the Steeler fan base.
Despite your stupid statement above the Browns fans have by no means abandoned their team. "
as i said before.............no you're not. you don't get to say that anymore. i saw your stadium empty like a old man's bowels after a jug of prune juice.
and that did NOTHING but hurt your players.
you did abandon your team. end of discussion.
now at least that you guys ARE abandoning your team at least do it to the owners and not the players.
but one thing your fanbase can never claim again is that it sticks by it's team through thick and thin............hell, you guys couldn't even stick by your team though halftime.
"You know why we don't do those things? Because we are loyal. Plain and simple. We are not so gutless as to do those things.
Don't buy tickets? Don't buy merchandise?
That would be the plan of a typical fair weather fan base.
Those would be the actions of a fan base composed of a bunch of FRAKs like the Steeler fan base.
Despite your stupid statement above the Browns fans have by no means abandoned their team. "
as i said before.............no you're not. you don't get to say that anymore. i saw your stadium empty like a old man's bowels after a jug of prune juice.
F88K you. That is bullshit. So, most fans left the last game of the season when they were completely out of the game....and after 10 years of crap football.
What about the time the Steeler faithful only put 35,000 in their stadium....this being only 2 years afte winning the SB....and while they were still in contention for a playoff spot. Talk about a fan base abandoning their team at the slightest hint of bad fortune. If Steeler fans had to endure what Browns fans have had to endure there probably wouldn't even be a team in that town..
and that did NOTHING but hurt your players.
More BS. Hurt the players? What a pile of crap.
you did abandon your team. end of discussion.
now at least that you guys ARE abandoning your team at least do it to the owners and not the players.
but one thing your fanbase can never claim again is that it sticks by it's team through thick and thin............hell, you guys couldn't even stick by your team though halftime.
OK, so the LAST game of the season where the team was going to go 5-11 was a blowout and fans left. Steeler fans didn't even show up for a game that had some relevance to their making the playoffs.
I would put the loyalty of Browns fan up against that of any fan base.
Steeler fans profess to be such great fans. They stick behind their team win or tie. Lose and you guys would be a bunch of scurrying cockroaches trying to get out of the light.
Hello! It looks like you're interested in this conversation, but you don't have an account yet.
Getting fed up of having to scroll through the same posts each visit? When you register for an account, you'll always come back to exactly where you were before, and choose to be notified of new replies (either via email, or push notification). You'll also be able to save bookmarks and upvote posts to show your appreciation to other community members.
With your input, this post could be even better 💗
Register Login