Green Bay closing in on Cleveland
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Akron and Canton may be in the same "TV" market as Cleveland, but they are seperate cities in seperate counties of your state. Canton is nearly as close to Pittsburgh as it is to Cleveland. Lumping those cities into the Cleveland region to trump your titles is sad. While you may believe your titles from 1946, 47, 48 and 64 are true titles, they are not. While the various leagues may not have gotten along, without a play-off such as the one in 1949/50 you can not prove Cleveland was indeed the better team and therefore the world champion for that year. You may have won and yet you may have lost such a matchup. Also, you list conviently ends in 1920, where the first recorded football title that I know dates to 1900, and there may have been more that even predate 1900.
Further, modern Super Bowl titles are far more impressive than ancient titles won in 10-12 team leagues, and as such the titles won since the advent of free agency are even more impressive than the titles won before that time.
Endymion said:
Akron and Canton may be in the same "TV" market as Cleveland, but they are seperate cities in seperate counties of your state. Canton is nearly as close to Pittsburgh as it is to Cleveland. Lumping those cities into the Cleveland region to trump your titles is sad. While you may believe your titles from 1946, 47, 48 and 64 are true titles, they are not. While the various leagues may not have gotten along, without a play-off such as the one in 1949/50 you can not prove Cleveland was indeed the better team and therefore the world champion for that year. You may have won and yet you may have lost such a matchup. Also, you list conviently ends in 1920, where the first recorded football title that I know dates to 1900, and there may have been more that even predate 1900.Further, modern Super Bowl titles are far more impressive than ancient titles won in 10-12 team leagues, and as such the titles won since the advent of free agency are even more impressive than the titles won before that time.
I have to agree here Canton is Canton and Akron is Akron, not Cleveland not Pittsburgh, very simple. I mean what Canton is 60 miles from Cleveland that means with Dayton only being 60-70 miles from columbus they could start claiming OSU titles.
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Akron and Canton may be in the same "TV" market as Cleveland, but they are seperate cities in seperate counties of your state. Canton is nearly as close to Pittsburgh as it is to Cleveland. Lumping those cities into the Cleveland region to trump your titles is sad. While you may believe your titles from 1946, 47, 48 and 64 are true titles, they are not. While the various leagues may not have gotten along, without a play-off such as the one in 1949/50 you can not prove Cleveland was indeed the better team and therefore the world champion for that year. You may have won and yet you may have lost such a matchup. Also, you list conviently ends in 1920, where the first recorded football title that I know dates to 1900, and there may have been more that even predate 1900.
Further, modern Super Bowl titles are far more impressive than ancient titles won in 10-12 team leagues, and as such the titles won since the advent of free agency are even more impressive than the titles won before that time.
Endymion said:
Akron and Canton may be in the same "TV" market as Cleveland, but they are seperate cities in seperate counties of your state. Canton is nearly as close to Pittsburgh as it is to Cleveland. Lumping those cities into the Cleveland region to trump your titles is sad. While you may believe your titles from 1946, 47, 48 and 64 are true titles, they are not. While the various leagues may not have gotten along, without a play-off such as the one in 1949/50 you can not prove Cleveland was indeed the better team and therefore the world champion for that year. You may have won and yet you may have lost such a matchup. Also, you list conviently ends in 1920, where the first recorded football title that I know dates to 1900, and there may have been more that even predate 1900.Further, modern Super Bowl titles are far more impressive than ancient titles won in 10-12 team leagues, and as such the titles won since the advent of free agency are even more impressive than the titles won before that time.
Seriously, Canton is nearly as close? Try about twice as far in drive time:
Distance from Canton to Pitt: 92.3 miles, 1 hr 57 min
Distance from Canton to Cle: 60.0 miles, 1 hr 1 min
The sad part isn't lumping in cities, it's spending they day after your team wins a birth to the bowl on a message board of a team that finished 5-11. Look in the mirror if you want sad.
Thanks Gip - keep up the good info.
CHANGE IS GOOD -
The Cleveland/Akron/Canton media market.
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Akron and Canton may be in the same "TV" market as Cleveland, but they are seperate cities in seperate counties of your state. Canton is nearly as close to Pittsburgh as it is to Cleveland. Lumping those cities into the Cleveland region to trump your titles is sad. While you may believe your titles from 1946, 47, 48 and 64 are true titles, they are not. While the various leagues may not have gotten along, without a play-off such as the one in 1949/50 you can not prove Cleveland was indeed the better team and therefore the world champion for that year. You may have won and yet you may have lost such a matchup. Also, you list conviently ends in 1920, where the first recorded football title that I know dates to 1900, and there may have been more that even predate 1900.
Further, modern Super Bowl titles are far more impressive than ancient titles won in 10-12 team leagues, and as such the titles won since the advent of free agency are even more impressive than the titles won before that time.
Endymion said:
Akron and Canton may be in the same "TV" market as Cleveland, but they are seperate cities in seperate counties of your state. Canton is nearly as close to Pittsburgh as it is to Cleveland.Now, you have proven you are an idiot who cannot even look at a map.
Lumping those cities into the Cleveland region to trump your titles is sad. While you may believe your titles from 1946, 47, 48 and 64 are true titles, they are not.
Believe what you want....they are. Every authoritative resource says so. Do you think you are a greater authority than all those I have sited? I think not.
While the various leagues may not have gotten along, without a play-off such as the one in 1949/50 you can not prove Cleveland was indeed the better team and therefore the world champion for that year. You may have won and yet you may have lost such a matchup. Also, you list conviently ends in 1920, where the first recorded football title that I know dates to 1900, and there may have been more that even predate 1900.
My list begins with the formation of the National Football League. You are the one that brought up the old titles, not me.
In that regard you brought in a pea shooter as ammunition. Don't blame me for playing your game and then blowing your ass away with a bazooka.
Further, modern Super Bowl titles are far more impressive than ancient titles won in 10-12 team leagues, and as such the titles won since the advent of free agency are even more impressive than the titles won before that time.
What is sad is that you have to try to send a camel through the eye of a needle to try to deny a simple fact.
FYI, the NFL lives on its "media Markets" It doesn't give a rat's ass about city or county boundaries. I simply have applied their own methodolgy.
If you are so stuck on city boundaries, why were you so willing to bring in "Homestead" titles simply because it shares a boundary? I nor the NFL pay any attention to those boundaries:
I gave New York credit for teams that don't even play in the same state. Washington D.C. gets credit for a team that plays in a different state.
Half the teams in the NFL don't play in the city they are named for. Hell, a bunch of them are named for a whole state or even a geographic region.
Do you know what city the Dallas Cowboys play in? It ain't Dallas. It is now Arlington, previously Irving. How about the Buffalo Bills? Orchard Park. New York Jets and New York Giants? It ain't New York City or New York State.
New England Patriots? Maybe they could travel from Caribou Maine to Greenwhich Connecticut and all 5 states in between.
How does the Landover Maryland Redskins sound to you? The Opa Locka Dolphins? Let's see now, do the Tennessee Titans play in Knoxville, or Memphis or Dollywood or somewhere in between. Like the sound of the Ashwabenon Packers?
The Independence Chiefs? Do the Arizona Cardinals play on the Hopi reservation? Or do they fill the Grand Canyon for their games.
Boundaries mean diddley, bo.
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Endymion said:
Akron and Canton may be in the same "TV" market as Cleveland, but they are seperate cities in seperate counties of your state. Canton is nearly as close to Pittsburgh as it is to Cleveland. Lumping those cities into the Cleveland region to trump your titles is sad. While you may believe your titles from 1946, 47, 48 and 64 are true titles, they are not. While the various leagues may not have gotten along, without a play-off such as the one in 1949/50 you can not prove Cleveland was indeed the better team and therefore the world champion for that year. You may have won and yet you may have lost such a matchup. Also, you list conviently ends in 1920, where the first recorded football title that I know dates to 1900, and there may have been more that even predate 1900.Further, modern Super Bowl titles are far more impressive than ancient titles won in 10-12 team leagues, and as such the titles won since the advent of free agency are even more impressive than the titles won before that time.
Seriously, Canton is nearly as close? Try about twice as far in drive time:
Distance from Canton to Pitt: 92.3 miles, 1 hr 57 min
Distance from Canton to Cle: 60.0 miles, 1 hr 1 min
The sad part isn't lumping in cities, it's spending they day after your team wins a birth to the bowl on a message board of a team that finished 5-11. Look in the mirror if you want sad.
Thanks Gip - keep up the good info.
Seriously, Canton is nearly as close? Try about twice as far in drive time:
Distance from Canton to Pitt: 92.3 miles, 1 hr 57 min
Distance from Canton to Cle: 60.0 miles, 1 hr 1 min
The sad part isn't lumping in cities, it's spending they day after your team wins a birth to the bowl on a message board of a team that finished 5-11. Look in the mirror if you want sad.
Thanks Gip - keep up the good info.
See the map above. There is an entire DMA between Canton and the Pittsburgh DMA.
Here is a map of the entire nation:
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All hail Cleveland, Akron, Canton, junior varsity, flag football, Madden NFL game championships.
If you win a game in or around Cleveland count it as a Super Bowl. It makes sense because the gipper says so.
And if you have so many titles-championships then why are you worried about the little old Steelers who only have six super bowl titles?
You can rest for the next 25 years because Browns football is the tip of the iceberg no one can challenge.
As a Steeler fan I just want to catch up to all of those titles and championships that the browns have won. the browns have proven to be the best ever team in football and I hope a 7th super bowl win by pittsburgh finally gets us some respect!
Damn those Browns! I am jealous! LOL
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I vote this thread as "The funnest thing evah", despite it's usefulness level.
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Seriously, Canton is nearly as close? Try about twice as far in drive time:
Distance from Canton to Pitt: 92.3 miles, 1 hr 57 min
Distance from Canton to Cle: 60.0 miles, 1 hr 1 min
The sad part isn't lumping in cities, it's spending they day after your team wins a birth to the bowl on a message board of a team that finished 5-11. Look in the mirror if you want sad.
Thanks Gip - keep up the good info.
See the map above. There is an entire DMA between Canton and the Pittsburgh DMA.
Here is a map of the entire nation:
See the map above. There is an entire DMA between Canton and the Pittsburgh DMA.
Here is a map of the entire nation:
Your map is wrong! Canada and Mexico are not round and they are much bigger. Alaska is not an island, and Hawaii isn't purple it's green like all the other rainforest.
I do agree with you list though. Seems like sports of any level are popular in Cleveland, so over the years they collected a huge amount of trophies even if some (Pisstburg residents) think they're meaningless.
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I have done this before about a year ago, but I will repeat it:
There is a reason that the NFL sets a 75 mile limit "Blackout rule" and it because it believes that 75 miles is the natural range of any particular teams fan base.
Canton falls cleanly and solely inside the Browns 75 mile blackout range.
Youngstown also falls inside the Browns 75 mile blackout range, but it also falls inside Pittsburgh's range as well.
Cleveland and Pittsburgh's 75 mile ranges do overlap. Other cities that fall inside the Cleveland/Pittsburgh overlap include Warren, Lisbon, Niles, Sharon Pa, and Mercer Pa.
The Cleveland Market also has a large overlap with the Detroit, however a lot of it extends over Lake Erie and Southern Ontario. The few cities that do fall into the overlap include Sandusky, Port Clinton, and Leamington, Ont.
Erie Pa. is an "open" city. It sits just outside of the 75 mile blackout range of each of Buffalo, Cleveland, and Pittsburgh.
Columbus is an 'open' city, sitting outside the range of both Cleveland and Cincinnati.
Cincinnati and Indianapolis actually have a large overlap that includes mostly smaller towns of SE Indiana including Richmond and Columbus.
On the east coast, Boston and NYC do not overlap. Most of central Connecticut, including Hartford...and Bristol, home of ESPN is open.
There is a large overlap between New York and Philly. All of central New Jersey. Philadelphia and Baltimore have a large overlap. Note that Harrisburg Pa., York Pa. and Gettysburg actually fall inside the Baltimore radius, but outside the Philly radius.
The only place in the nation that has "Triple Overlap" is the area around Aberdeen and Havre De Grace Maryland. Those towns are inside the Philly, Baltimore, and Washington 75 mile radius.
Baltimore and Wash. D.C. have the most overlap of any two markets in the nation.
NFL Markets in the south do not have any overlap. Some key cities that some patrons of this board live in or near are included: Chattanooga, home of ballpeen is equidistant between Nashville (Tenn.) and Atlanta. Greenville SC. (home, I belive of Khutchins) is equidistant from Atlanta and Charlotte (Carolina).
Orlando sits just outside the radii of both Tampa Bay and Jacksonville, though someone I believe told me there are more Dolphins fans there perhaps than any others.
Chicago does not overlap with either Indy or Green Bay, and although Milwaukee seems to be an open city....being equidistant from both Chicago and Green Bay, but outside their 75 mile radii...it is clearly a Packer town.
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All hail Cleveland, Akron, Canton, junior varsity, flag football, Madden NFL game championships.
If you win a game in or around Cleveland count it as a Super Bowl. It makes sense because the gipper says so.
And if you have so many titles-championships then why are you worried about the little old Steelers who only have six super bowl titles?
You can rest for the next 25 years because Browns football is the tip of the iceberg no one can challenge.
As a Steeler fan I just want to catch up to all of those titles and championships that the browns have won. the browns have proven to be the best ever team in football and I hope a 7th super bowl win by pittsburgh finally gets us some respect!
Damn those Browns! I am jealous! LOL
Surf and Turf said:
All hail Cleveland, Akron, Canton, junior varsity, flag football, Madden NFL game championships.If you win a game in or around Cleveland count it as a Super Bowl. It makes sense because the gipper says so.
And if you have so many titles-championships then why are you worried about the little old Steelers who only have six super bowl titles?
Who says we are worried about it?
You can rest for the next 25 years because Browns football is the tip of the iceberg no one can challenge.
As a Steeler fan I just want to catch up to all of those titles and championships that the browns have won. the browns have proven to be the best ever team in football and I hope a 7th super bowl win by pittsburgh finally gets us some respect!
Damn those Browns! I am jealous! LOL
Apparently so? Why, after all, when the Steelers are on the cusp of playing in the Super Bowl are you here on the Browns board, worrying so much about the Browns?
You would think that the Steelers were playing the Browns in the Super Bowl.
New Flash: your opponent for that game isn't the Browns, it is The Packers.
Perhaps we should ask that the Steelers do us a favor and beat the Packers so that city doesn't tie us in the most Championships. Ya think?
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I am just jealous of the Akron, Canton, and AAFC titles!
Once the Steeler win 13 Super Bowls we will be the equal of what the Browns have done. Damn those Browns! Why are they always the best when everyone talks football?
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I am just jealous of the Akron, Canton, and AAFC titles!
Once the Steeler win 13 Super Bowls we will be the equal of what the Browns have done. Damn those Browns! Why are they always the best when everyone talks football?
Surf and Turf said:
I am just jealous of the Akron, Canton, and AAFC titles!Once the Steeler win 13 Super Bowls we will be the equal of what the Browns have done. Damn those Browns! Why are they always the best when everyone talks football?
If you say you are jealous, then who are we to dispute it. Evidence seems to suggest you are being truthful there.
However, you do bring up a valid point: It is possible that karma said in 1964: Northeast Ohio, wait, you have gone too far ahead of everyone else with your football title. Before you can win another you must allow someone else to catch up to you.
However, for 46 years, no one else has caught up yet. But now, Green Bay has a chance to tie us with 13 titles. If they in fact do that, it will be an omen for the Karmic Gods to now say to Cleveland: Congratulations on being so gracious. Now, however, you are free to go henceforth and win more titles.
So, as I see it, perhaps we should view it as a good omen if the Packers win.
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I hear ya man. I am hoping one day people will quit laughing at the Steelers and quit comparing them to the Browns. It just ain't right you know?
I hope a 7th Super Bowl title at least gets us mentioned in the same breath as the Browns - historically speaking of course.
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I hear ya man. I am hoping one day people will quit laughing at the Steelers and quit comparing them to the Browns. It just ain't right you know?
I hope a 7th Super Bowl title at least gets us mentioned in the same breath as the Browns - historically speaking of course.
Surf and Turf said:
I hear ya man. I am hoping one day people will quit laughing at the Steelers and quit comparing them to the Browns. It just ain't right you know?I hope a 7th Super Bowl title at least gets us mentioned in the same breath as the Browns - historically speaking of course.
I wonder if this is ROCK BOTTOM for our Cleveland sports. We have not one franchise that can make any headway at this point. Browns are 5-11 for 2 straight years no matter what way we look at it. The Cavs havent won in it seems like 2 months, the Indians will be lucky to win 68 games this year and our rival is headed to another Super Bowl. This really is a downer and you can tell when we attempt to show our relevance by quoting titles from almost 50 years ago. I mean they are championships but it has been 47 FREAKING YEARS that is way to long ago to keep harping on this needs to change and between the 3 teams I see the Browns as the only one that can do it at this point, but Randy Lerner needs to leave before this will ever happen. So frustrating.
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I hear ya man. I am hoping one day people will quit laughing at the Steelers and quit comparing them to the Browns. It just ain't right you know?
I hope a 7th Super Bowl title at least gets us mentioned in the same breath as the Browns - historically speaking of course.
Surf and Turf said:
I hear ya man. I am hoping one day people will quit laughing at the Steelers and quit comparing them to the Browns. It just ain't right you know?I hope a 7th Super Bowl title at least gets us mentioned in the same breath as the Browns - historically speaking of course.
It would put you ahead of Dallas.
Again, this is NOT a Browns title thread, but a city title thread. Many of the cities on the list have had multiple franchises win titles. Like Dallas which has had the Texans and the Cowboys. Like New York with Giants and Jets. Chicago with the Bears and Cardinals. LA had the Rams and the Raiders. Boston/Providence has the Patriots and SteamRoller. Philadelphia has the Eagles and the Yellow Jackets. Baltimore has the Colts and the Ravens. SanFran/Oak./SJ has the Raiders and 49ers. Cleveland has had the Browns, Rams, Bulldogs, Pros.
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Surf and Turf said:
I hear ya man. I am hoping one day people will quit laughing at the Steelers and quit comparing them to the Browns. It just ain't right you know?I hope a 7th Super Bowl title at least gets us mentioned in the same breath as the Browns - historically speaking of course.
I wonder if this is ROCK BOTTOM for our Cleveland sports. We have not one franchise that can make any headway at this point. Browns are 5-11 for 2 straight years no matter what way we look at it. The Cavs havent won in it seems like 2 months, the Indians will be lucky to win 68 games this year and our rival is headed to another Super Bowl. This really is a downer and you can tell when we attempt to show our relevance by quoting titles from almost 50 years ago. I mean they are championships but it has been 47 FREAKING YEARS that is way to long ago to keep harping on this needs to change and between the 3 teams I see the Browns as the only one that can do it at this point, but Randy Lerner needs to leave before this will ever happen. So frustrating.
I wonder if this is ROCK BOTTOM for our Cleveland sports. We have not one franchise that can make any headway at this point. Browns are 5-11 for 2 straight years no matter what way we look at it. The Cavs havent won in it seems like 2 months, the Indians will be lucky to win 68 games this year and our rival is headed to another Super Bowl. This really is a downer and you can tell when we attempt to show our relevance by quoting titles from almost 50 years ago. I mean they are championships but it has been 47 FREAKING YEARS that is way to long ago to keep harping on this needs to change and between the 3 teams I see the Browns as the only one that can do it at this point, but Randy Lerner needs to leave before this will ever happen. So frustrating.
What I do in my compilations has nothing to do with Cleveland sports. I keep this compilation for Pro Football, baseball, and basketball which Cleveland does have a team, but I also have it for hockey...no Cleveland team, and for College football and College basketball. No Cleveland area team is likely to have a run at titles in those sports....even though Kent State made the Elite Eight a few years back, and CSU made the Sweet Sixteen in 1986.
Pro Football is the only sport in which a thread of this title can be made....because it is the only sport in which the lead for the most titles won in a city/region is so close. In baseball and hockey NYC and Montreal are light years ahead in the count. In the NBA, Boston has a 6 game lead over LA, so that is not that close.
I don't keep a "city" count in college football or basketball because those sports are not "city oriented" like the Pro Sports are. I don't keep a count for Tuscaloosa, Alabama or South Bend Indiana the way you do for Pro teams.
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my grandfather was born in Stuebenville Ohio and played football with the neighborhood kids. His team used to beat all of the other teams in the day. Granted they were only kids but to me, when I think about it, it was just as important as winning a Super Bowl. I wish the NFL would count that but they don't. I don't buy this whole Super Bowl or nothing argument. Plenty of great football was played back in the day when it wasn't commercialized and driven by profits.
These days Super Bowls are just handed out to teams. The real championships were a lot harder to win before the NFL took over. I hope the Steelers finally become relevant to the history of football with a 7th Lombardi Trophy but we are still chasing the Browns's legacy.
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I think the Packers actually used to play half of their home games in Milwuakee.
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Akron and Canton may be in the same "TV" market as Cleveland, but they are seperate cities in seperate counties of your state. Canton is nearly as close to Pittsburgh as it is to Cleveland. Lumping those cities into the Cleveland region to trump your titles is sad. While you may believe your titles from 1946, 47, 48 and 64 are true titles, they are not. While the various leagues may not have gotten along, without a play-off such as the one in 1949/50 you can not prove Cleveland was indeed the better team and therefore the world champion for that year. You may have won and yet you may have lost such a matchup. Also, you list conviently ends in 1920, where the first recorded football title that I know dates to 1900, and there may have been more that even predate 1900.
Further, modern Super Bowl titles are far more impressive than ancient titles won in 10-12 team leagues, and as such the titles won since the advent of free agency are even more impressive than the titles won before that time.
Endymion said:
Akron and Canton may be in the same "TV" market as Cleveland, but they are seperate cities in seperate counties of your state. Canton is nearly as close to Pittsburgh as it is to Cleveland. Lumping those cities into the Cleveland region to trump your titles is sad. While you may believe your titles from 1946, 47, 48 and 64 are true titles, they are not. While the various leagues may not have gotten along, without a play-off such as the one in 1949/50 you can not prove Cleveland was indeed the better team and therefore the world champion for that year. You may have won and yet you may have lost such a matchup. Also, you list conviently ends in 1920, where the first recorded football title that I know dates to 1900, and there may have been more that even predate 1900.Further, modern Super Bowl titles are far more impressive than ancient titles won in 10-12 team leagues, and as such the titles won since the advent of free agency are even more impressive than the titles won before that time.
Im 15 minutes from Akron, 25 from Canton, and 45 from Cleveland. Im also 2 hours and 15 minutes from Pissburgh so how are they "nearly as close to Pissburgh as it is to Cleveland?
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The Browns could in theory take credit for the Steelers Super Bowls - from a geographical standpoint. Why not?
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