Phil Dawson is Still a Brown!
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@slurp-and-burp said:
only the Browns would franchise a kicker who is over the hill and on the decline. Holmgren is a genius!Big money for a kicker who will get the average of the top 5 kickers when he is ranked 17th out of 32 with his peers.
Where is
ranked??It must suck that even the Browns have a better kicker than you idiots.
So that gives us the advantage at TE, RB, P, KR, CB, and now K
oh well at least he only missed that fg by about 50 yards to the left...blame the wind right? in the dome? makes sense...
Where is ranked??
It must suck that even the Browns have a better kicker than you idiots.
So that gives us the advantage at TE, RB, P, KR, CB, and now K
oh well at least he only missed that fg by about 50 yards to the left...blame the wind right? in the dome? makes sense...
Sorry Heath Miller is better than Ben Watson and lets wait and see how healthy Hillis will remain past one good season.
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Why do these trolls try so hard to ruin everything good for us? Are they're lives really that bad or what? The only other time ive seen people act like they do was back in the 3rd grade when the fat kids drunken father beat him every night which in turn made the kid beat up every small kid that had glasses at school.
Wait, I know why they troll. Deep down they realize that if the stoolers had a losing streak as long as the Browns have had they would be rooting for the Pats right now rather then the stoolers. They're just jealous that we have heart and didnt trade it in for a yellow towel.
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Lou Groza was way more than a kicker he was a hall of fame left tackle and a kicker who actually made the first contact downfield on his kick offs................but that may escape you. Lou Groza was the best of the best for a long long time.................
I like Phil Dawson and love his long tenure. But we are not a good football team yet. Worse, kickers are not a dime a dozen rather three dozen for a penny except for a very few. Last year the great fruitcake loser Jeff Reed was the hero in Pittsburgh and now he is shoveling bandanas in the gay part of San Francisco. The Steelers picked a guy off the street and never missed a beat.........they made the BOWL
So, next time I hear franchising a 13 year vet journeyman kicker is a good idea it is another nail in the coffin of a fan base gone brain dead...........not to mention Management
I cannot imagine why Holmgren and co did this..............
I would love to see the rationale
and your kicker was TERRIBLE! He missed a fg 50yds left and was not even close
...........................
You seem to have a love of.................periods......................................................
...............steelers.....................................suck
and your kicker was TERRIBLE! He missed a fg 50yds left and was not even close
KISS MY ASS I MADE A HUGE STATEMENT ABOUT THE GREAT LOU GROZA AND YOU TURNED THAT INTO YOUR MORONIC PERSONAL ATTACK ON ME. YOU ARE WHAT YOU ARE A SUBSTANCELESS JACKASS
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Lou Groza was way more than a kicker he was a hall of fame left tackle and a kicker who actually made the first contact downfield on his kick offs................but that may escape you. Lou Groza was the best of the best for a long long time.................
I like Phil Dawson and love his long tenure. But we are not a good football team yet. Worse, kickers are not a dime a dozen rather three dozen for a penny except for a very few. Last year the great fruitcake loser Jeff Reed was the hero in Pittsburgh and now he is shoveling bandanas in the gay part of San Francisco. The Steelers picked a guy off the street and never missed a beat.........they made the BOWL
So, next time I hear franchising a 13 year vet journeyman kicker is a good idea it is another nail in the coffin of a fan base gone brain dead...........not to mention Management
I cannot imagine why Holmgren and co did this..............
I would love to see the rationale
Rich, you're looking up at the sky and saying "it's not blue". Top 10 ever in FG accuracy isn't "journeyman". Top 50 ever in scoring isn't "journeyman". Journeyman kickers don't last 10+ years in the NFL. Martin Grammatica, where art thou? Groza belongs to an extinct species- and if you didn't notice (and I'll say it again) Dawson plays another 5 years (which barring injury he's totally capable of) he will pass Lou in points scored. Go ahead and counter that Lou played in 12 and 14 game seasons- and I'll come back with Dawson has never played on a team remotely as good as Groza's Browns.
Ah, but to be a kicker is to be a "journeyman" if you want to define it that way. Of the top 50 kickers all time, only nine have played their entire career with one team- and THREE of them have happened to play for the Browns- So how's that for a coincidence? If they're good, you keep 'em!!!
Yeah that Suisham pickup by the Squealers was a great move- too bad he tried to aim for the corner pylon instead of the uprights on that 50 yard miss in the SB. Gave the 'Pack a short field to work with, thank you very much.
Most teams do pick their kickers up off the street- unless you're Alzheimer addled Al Davis, who has managed to draft BOTH a Punter (Ray Guy) AND a kicker (Janikowski) in the first round. Now THAT'S idiocy- when both those guys could have been had several rounds later.
Rich, you're looking up at the sky and saying "it's not blue". Top 10 ever in FG accuracy isn't "journeyman". Top 50 ever in scoring isn't "journeyman". Journeyman kickers don't last 10+ years in the NFL. Martin Grammatica, where art thou? Groza belongs to an extinct species- and if you didn't notice (and I'll say it again) Dawson plays another 5 years (which barring injury he's totally capable of) he will pass Lou in points scored. Go ahead and counter that Lou played in 12 and 14 game seasons- and I'll come back with Dawson has never played on a team remotely as good as Groza's Browns.
Ah, but to be a kicker is to be a "journeyman" if you want to define it that way. Of the top 50 kickers all time, only nine have played their entire career with one team- and THREE of them have happened to play for the Browns- So how's that for a coincidence? If they're good, you keep 'em!!!
Yeah that Suisham pickup by the Squealers was a great move- too bad he tried to aim for the corner pylon instead of the uprights on that 50 yard miss in the SB. Gave the 'Pack a short field to work with, thank you very much.
Most teams do pick their kickers up off the street- unless you're Alzheimer addled Al Davis, who has managed to draft BOTH a Punter (Ray Guy) AND a kicker (Janikowski) in the first round. Now THAT'S idiocy- when both those guys could have been had several rounds later.
Sorry again you as browns fandom is missing it again...........we stink we have no players we are not going to the Super Bowl next year we are at least two years away.....and Dawson is already 36.............SO WTF DID THIS ACCOMPLISH.......preserving an ordinanry kicker is what it accomplished. I do not get it. We need playmakers and we made an ordinary kicker our stud when we stink. NOT GOOD
Offense Wins.......Franchise QB's are the key.............Defense keeps you in the game.........Go Buckeyes -
Gipper: In retrospect though, both of those guys seem to be outstanding, so who knows, maybe they were worth the first round pick. Didn't the Raiders win 3 SBs as Guy as their punter?
Yes they did- and Guy is the only punter that deserves induction into the HOF. BUT I'll posit both Guy and Janikowski would have lasted until at least the second round if Davis hadn't taken them in the first. The only other Kickers I can remember getting drafted high are Tom Sladanky (second), Mike Nugent (second), and Martin Grammatica (third).
I have never really understood that....not selecting kickers very high.
If you have a guy who clearly has it....and when you get down to it, kicking in college is harder. Both goal posts are 18' 6" wide. The hash marks in college are 40' while in the pros it is the same as the goal posts.....the college kicker has much harsher angles to adjust for.
The point being, why not spend a high pick on a position that typically can hold the job for a couple of decades???
One high pick every 18 or so years for a quality kicker isn't going to hurt anything.
JMO.
I have never really understood that....not selecting kickers very high.
If you have a guy who clearly has it....and when you get down to it, kicking in college is harder. Both goal posts are 18' 6" wide. The hash marks in college are 40' while in the pros it is the same as the goal posts.....the college kicker has much harsher angles to adjust for.
The point being, why not spend a high pick on a position that typically can hold the job for a couple of decades???
One high pick every 18 or so years for a quality kicker isn't going to hurt anything.
JMO.
because kickers are two cents a dozen in the big scheme and stiink and shine from year to year.........and that is why there is no need to draft kickers
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I have never really understood that....not selecting kickers very high.
If you have a guy who clearly has it....and when you get down to it, kicking in college is harder. Both goal posts are 18' 6" wide. The hash marks in college are 40' while in the pros it is the same as the goal posts.....the college kicker has much harsher angles to adjust for.
The point being, why not spend a high pick on a position that typically can hold the job for a couple of decades???
One high pick every 18 or so years for a quality kicker isn't going to hurt anything.
JMO.
because kickers are two cents a dozen in the big scheme and stiink and shine from year to year.........and that is why there is no need to draft kickers
because kickers are two cents a dozen in the big scheme and stiink and shine from year to year.........and that is why there is no need to draft kickers
I might give anything you said some thought if you weren't a steelers fan.
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Rich, you're looking up at the sky and saying "it's not blue". Top 10 ever in FG accuracy isn't "journeyman". Top 50 ever in scoring isn't "journeyman". Journeyman kickers don't last 10+ years in the NFL. Martin Grammatica, where art thou? Groza belongs to an extinct species- and if you didn't notice (and I'll say it again) Dawson plays another 5 years (which barring injury he's totally capable of) he will pass Lou in points scored. Go ahead and counter that Lou played in 12 and 14 game seasons- and I'll come back with Dawson has never played on a team remotely as good as Groza's Browns.
Ah, but to be a kicker is to be a "journeyman" if you want to define it that way. Of the top 50 kickers all time, only nine have played their entire career with one team- and THREE of them have happened to play for the Browns- So how's that for a coincidence? If they're good, you keep 'em!!!
Yeah that Suisham pickup by the Squealers was a great move- too bad he tried to aim for the corner pylon instead of the uprights on that 50 yard miss in the SB. Gave the 'Pack a short field to work with, thank you very much.
Most teams do pick their kickers up off the street- unless you're Alzheimer addled Al Davis, who has managed to draft BOTH a Punter (Ray Guy) AND a kicker (Janikowski) in the first round. Now THAT'S idiocy- when both those guys could have been had several rounds later.
Sorry again you as browns fandom is missing it again...........we stink we have no players we are not going to the Super Bowl next year we are at least two years away.....and Dawson is already 36.............SO WTF DID THIS ACCOMPLISH.......preserving an ordinanry kicker is what it accomplished. I do not get it. We need playmakers and we made an ordinary kicker our stud when we stink. NOT GOOD
Sorry again you as browns fandom is missing it again...........we stink we have no players we are not going to the Super Bowl next year we are at least two years away.....and Dawson is already 36.............SO WTF DID THIS ACCOMPLISH.......preserving an ordinanry kicker is what it accomplished. I do not get it. We need playmakers and we made an ordinary kicker our stud when we stink. NOT GOOD
Rich.Rich.Rich.....Tell Me who you would franchise...I mean honestly its really not a bad deal...Ive openly criticized Dawson over the course of his career with the browns...And hes proven Me wrong ...I give the guy his due...so what...we keep him for atleast one more season ...The Browns arent going to the SB this year..So lets worry about more important needs at this time...Finding great kickers for the browns has never been a real problem...So...I wouldnt lose sleep over this.
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Phil Dawson ranks 17th out of 32 kickers for the 2010 season.
This information is located at www.nfl.com
here is the link.
http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?arc...e&Submit=Go
Gipper, please be objective and recognize that this was a dumb move by the Browns. Facts are facts, no need to analyze 2+2 =4.
This "ranking" does nothing but list which kickers made the most field goals, which as I said, says everything about the offense the kicker plays for and their ability to get into FG territory, and nothing about the ability of the kicker himself.
Why didn't you just rank them by the number of Extra points each kicker made? That would be a different ranking.
Or how about FG percentage? That is yet again another ranking. And there could be 10 other methods of ranking.
So, of course you have to analyze it. So 2+2=4. But then what do you do with the 4? What do you add it to? What do you subtract from it, what do you multiply it by, and what do you divide it by? And what does the 4 reprsent? 4 specks of sand? 4 solar systems? 4 women lining up to give you a blow job? And why did you choose 2 and 2 together to get to the 4? Why didn't you choose 1 +3 or 6-2?
It seems pretty easy to tell that you likely dropped out of junior high.
This "ranking" does nothing but list which kickers made the most field goals, which as I said, says everything about the offense the kicker plays for and their ability to get into FG territory, and nothing about the ability of the kicker himself.
Why didn't you just rank them by the number of Extra points each kicker made? That would be a different ranking.
Or how about FG percentage? That is yet again another ranking. And there could be 10 other methods of ranking.
So, of course you have to analyze it. So 2+2=4. But then what do you do with the 4? What do you add it to? What do you subtract from it, what do you multiply it by, and what do you divide it by? And what does the 4 reprsent? 4 specks of sand? 4 solar systems? 4 women lining up to give you a blow job? And why did you choose 2 and 2 together to get to the 4? Why didn't you choose 1 +3 or 6-2?
It seems pretty easy to tell that you likely dropped out of junior high
.Yeah, I hope our troll boy knows you can click on the top column of those stats and sort them anyway you like. So to augment what you've been preaching, Vinateri had 51 XP attempts, Dawson had 28 51-28=23 means the Colts scored 23 more TDs than the Browns. Those are scoring rankings- PERIOD. Dawson was money from inside the 40- no misses.
So, Dawson is THE BEST in the NFL in FG% inside the 40- you can't do better than 100% accuracy.
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Rich, you're looking up at the sky and saying "it's not blue". Top 10 ever in FG accuracy isn't "journeyman". Top 50 ever in scoring isn't "journeyman". Journeyman kickers don't last 10+ years in the NFL. Martin Grammatica, where art thou? Groza belongs to an extinct species- and if you didn't notice (and I'll say it again) Dawson plays another 5 years (which barring injury he's totally capable of) he will pass Lou in points scored. Go ahead and counter that Lou played in 12 and 14 game seasons- and I'll come back with Dawson has never played on a team remotely as good as Groza's Browns.
Ah, but to be a kicker is to be a "journeyman" if you want to define it that way. Of the top 50 kickers all time, only nine have played their entire career with one team- and THREE of them have happened to play for the Browns- So how's that for a coincidence? If they're good, you keep 'em!!!
Yeah that Suisham pickup by the Squealers was a great move- too bad he tried to aim for the corner pylon instead of the uprights on that 50 yard miss in the SB. Gave the 'Pack a short field to work with, thank you very much.
Most teams do pick their kickers up off the street- unless you're Alzheimer addled Al Davis, who has managed to draft BOTH a Punter (Ray Guy) AND a kicker (Janikowski) in the first round. Now THAT'S idiocy- when both those guys could have been had several rounds later.
Sorry again you as browns fandom is missing it again...........we stink we have no players we are not going to the Super Bowl next year we are at least two years away.....and Dawson is already 36.............SO WTF DID THIS ACCOMPLISH.......preserving an ordinanry kicker is what it accomplished. I do not get it. We need playmakers and we made an ordinary kicker our stud when we stink. NOT GOOD
Sorry again you as browns fandom is missing it again...........we stink we have no players we are not going to the Super Bowl next year we are at least two years away.....and Dawson is already 36.............SO WTF DID THIS ACCOMPLISH.......preserving an ordinanry kicker is what it accomplished. I do not get it. We need playmakers and we made an ordinary kicker our stud when we stink. NOT GOOD
Glad to see the sky is still green in your world Rich. 36 ain't old for a kicker, and Dawson isn't ordinary either. Add in Dawson was seriously underpaid last year- it's a makeup call. There's seven ACTIVE kickers in the NFL older than Dawson. Morten Andersen played until he was 47, Blanda was still booting them for the Raiders @ 48. In fact, using your logic, we should have let Lou Groza walk in 1959- when he was the same age as Dawson. Still floating down D-Nile I see.
So you think these "playmakers" are just going to waltz into Berea? Franchising Dawson does ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to hinder our ability to sign free agents. And FA signings do about zilch long run to make your team a contender- you build through the draft and keep the talent you have. Sorry to break it to you Dawson has talent, and the Browns decided to (finally) pay him for it.
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...........................
You seem to have a love of.................periods......................................................
...............steelers.....................................suck
and your kicker was TERRIBLE! He missed a fg 50yds left and was not even close
KISS MY ASS I MADE A HUGE STATEMENT ABOUT THE GREAT LOU GROZA AND YOU TURNED THAT INTO YOUR MORONIC PERSONAL ATTACK ON ME. YOU ARE WHAT YOU ARE A SUBSTANCELESS JACKASS
KISS MY ASS I MADE A HUGE STATEMENT ABOUT THE GREAT LOU GROZA AND YOU TURNED THAT INTO YOUR MORONIC PERSONAL ATTACK ON ME. YOU ARE WHAT YOU ARE A SUBSTANCELESS JACKASS
Ok man, I agree that Lou Groza was a great kicker as well as tackle. The thing I don't agree with is that the kicker the steelers "picked up off the street" was not good. I understand if you want to root for the Steelers and Browns, I know plenty of people who do. It's just that you seem to be a steelers fan for the most part, and that tends to get on the nerves of Browns fans, me included. Just try to be unbiased and you won't piss people off.
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Here is the deal on Dawson and Groza:
Dawson career:
FGs: 252 of 303 attempts
XPs: 301 of 309 attempts
Career points: 1065
Groza: career:
FGs: 264 of 481 attempts
XPs: 810 of 833 attempts
plus Lou scored 1 TD
Career points: 1608 These include AAFC years.
It is unbelieveable that Groza's teams scored more than 500 more TDs than Dawsons. Or is it?
Here is the deal on Dawson and Groza:
Dawson career:
FGs: 252 of 303 attempts
XPs: 301 of 309 attempts
Career points: 1065
Groza: career:
FGs: 264 of 481 attempts
XPs: 810 of 833 attempts
plus Lou scored 1 TD
Career points: 1608 These include AAFC years.
It is unbelieveable that Groza's teams scored more than 500 more TDs than Dawsons. Or is it?
I am pretty sure Dawson score a TD pretty early in his career as well. Either 99 or 2000.
I might be wrong. This is off the top of my head.
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you'd think that Dawson's impact would have helped the Browns win more than 5 games.
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you'd think that Dawson's impact would have helped the Browns win more than 5 games.
you'd think that Dawson's impact would have helped the Browns win more than 5 games.
You would think a Steelers fan would post on a Browns forum.
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you'd think that Dawson's impact would have helped the Browns win more than 5 games.
You would think a Steelers fan would post on a Browns forum.
Hillis-iz-Boss said:
You would think a Steelers fan would post on a Browns forum.Its beyond the ability of a Stooler fan to harbor any real logic...I mean say the shoe were on the other foot...I doubt you will see too many Browns fans mouthing off like a bunch of drunk inbred hillbillies on a Stoolers fan board...I have no desire to visit or be a part of thier board...its their shit hole...they can have it...I don't need to find out any news I need to know from a Stooler fan board....I find out all I need to know on the Browns Forums for Browns fans and read the Cleveland.Com sports pages and links provided here by our great posters. all they do here is mouth off like a bunch of pussies...I guarantee not one of them have the guts to face any one of our fans in Real Life and pull the shit they pull here...They don't have the guts ..that's why they do it here behind their keyboard...They truly are a bunch of sissies that love to gloat because the reality is you have to be a real loser in life to act as Imbecilic as they do...I'm serious...It takes a person that obviously has insecurities to do this crap when they really should get the right professional help and counseling...They have gone on a campaign of "My dicks bigger than your dick and hahaha"...Juveniles...ALL OF THEM" and show they have little or no intellect...God Bless You All for being the stupid assholes you are...You made it to 12 yr old I.Q. status and haven't progressed beyond a day.
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Name one other team who would pay 3.25M for a 36 yr old kicker.
Name one other team who would pay 3.25M for a 36 yr old kicker.
Remember, that 3.25 mill simply represents what the top 5 kickers in the league get paid now, so the answer is: there are at least 5 other NFL teams that DO pay that much for a kicker and I can doubledam guarantee you that several of them are that age....because most of the good kickers are older and last until they are 40.
But then I have demonstrated that to you....and you ignore it.
That is the definition of ignorance...one who ignores fact when they are placed plainly in front of their face.
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Where is ranked??
It must suck that even the Browns have a better kicker than you idiots.
So that gives us the advantage at TE, RB, P, KR, CB, and now K
oh well at least he only missed that fg by about 50 yards to the left...blame the wind right? in the dome? makes sense...
Sorry Heath Miller is better than Ben Watson and lets wait and see how healthy Hillis will remain past one good season.
Sorry Heath Miller is better than Ben Watson and lets wait and see how healthy Hillis will remain past one good season.
Sorry, but Ben Watson played better last year than Heath Miller. So, your opinions don't count. Only production counts.
And I guess they could have said the same about Jerome Bettis.....he was fatter, slower, less quick, less athletic etc. etc. than Peyton Hillis. He did pretty well for quite a while though.
Show me where there is any difference in the two.
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Rich, you're looking up at the sky and saying "it's not blue". Top 10 ever in FG accuracy isn't "journeyman". Top 50 ever in scoring isn't "journeyman". Journeyman kickers don't last 10+ years in the NFL. Martin Grammatica, where art thou? Groza belongs to an extinct species- and if you didn't notice (and I'll say it again) Dawson plays another 5 years (which barring injury he's totally capable of) he will pass Lou in points scored. Go ahead and counter that Lou played in 12 and 14 game seasons- and I'll come back with Dawson has never played on a team remotely as good as Groza's Browns.
Ah, but to be a kicker is to be a "journeyman" if you want to define it that way. Of the top 50 kickers all time, only nine have played their entire career with one team- and THREE of them have happened to play for the Browns- So how's that for a coincidence? If they're good, you keep 'em!!!
Yeah that Suisham pickup by the Squealers was a great move- too bad he tried to aim for the corner pylon instead of the uprights on that 50 yard miss in the SB. Gave the 'Pack a short field to work with, thank you very much.
Most teams do pick their kickers up off the street- unless you're Alzheimer addled Al Davis, who has managed to draft BOTH a Punter (Ray Guy) AND a kicker (Janikowski) in the first round. Now THAT'S idiocy- when both those guys could have been had several rounds later.
Sorry again you as browns fandom is missing it again...........we stink we have no players we are not going to the Super Bowl next year we are at least two years away.....and Dawson is already 36.............SO WTF DID THIS ACCOMPLISH.......preserving an ordinanry kicker is what it accomplished. I do not get it. We need playmakers and we made an ordinary kicker our stud when we stink. NOT GOOD
Sorry again you as browns fandom is missing it again...........we stink we have no players we are not going to the Super Bowl next year we are at least two years away.....and Dawson is already 36.............SO WTF DID THIS ACCOMPLISH.......preserving an ordinanry kicker is what it accomplished. I do not get it. We need playmakers and we made an ordinary kicker our stud when we stink. NOT GOOD
What it accomplished Rich is simply preserving an important element in this team. As I have said before, you make too much of all this.
And again, tell me: WHO instead of Dawson amongst the Browns free agents would you have put the franchise tag on?
And tell me: Who was sacrificed on this team to make way for this contract to Dawson?
OK, The Browns need offensive playmakers. Does that preclude the fact that we also need a reliable kicker?
A reliable kicker on this team may be far more critically important than on a team that is full of offensive firepower. The Browns last year were in close game after close game. I anticipate the same thing next year.
Dawson won them probably 3 of their 5 games last year. Because he was reliable and made his kicks allowed them to beat Carolina and Cincy and who knows who else. Next year it may meant they win 6 games by a field goal. Who know?
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Zombo said:
You are correct, sir. Phil "The battering ram" Dawson scored the Browns' first rushing TD of the new era on a 4-yard scamper on a fake field goal attempt vs. the Bungles.Zombo
That is why there is a bit of an abberation in my figures. Dawson has scored 1057 points kicking and 6 points on a TD.
So, he tied Lou Groza in the number of TDs they each scored!
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Cleveland Browns president Mike Holmgren said the team is not sure if PK Phil Dawson will sign his franchise tender offer, reports Nate Ulrich, of the Akron Beacon Journal.
http://www.kffl.com/gnews.php?id=699730-browns-unsure-if-phil-dawson-will-sign-tender
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Well I think he does want to test FA, but there is a chance that Franshise Tags will still be there with a new CBA meaning that it doesn't matter, he will be with us regardless.
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