Cleveland Attendance
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I can remember going to games when Vernon Stouffer owned the team with announced attendance in the 3,000's.
I don't care how big Muni was, I still say there would be lucky to have 1500 in the place.
Here's the deal folks. Listen good.
Dolan doesn't have the big pockets, so if you want a good team in Cleveland, or a team at all, you best try to make 10 games a year.
If you are waiting for a winner before you go, really, what kind of fan is that??
I understand the frustration, but I see it happening again, and this time the Tribe might not survive.
If you aren't buying tickets, you have no room to complain....and that is the bottom line.
Hell, I live in Tennessee and am thinking of coming up later this month to catch a weekend series.
I can assure you....if I lived inside 50 miles of the stadium, I'd go to 20-25 games a year minimum.
How many people live in the greater Cleveland area these days....say inside 40 miles?? 1.5 mil??
2-3 games each(adults) would solve the Tribes cash woes, so if you are waiting for a winner before you go, just put on your bandwagon tee-shirt as far as I am concerned.
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'Peen,
Normally you & I are in agreement, but not on this one. Dolan bought a team on a record string of sellouts with a SOLID track record of winning & fans buying Tribe gear like it was going out of style. He almost immediately cut payroll, let our good players leave & THEN had the nerve to say he would start spending money when the fans did. In other words, spend top dollar for an inferior product! Not this boy....I don't have money to waste & won't buy another Tribe ticket until he sells the team to a REAL owner. If he didn't have the money & competitive pride to do his best to field a contender, he should not have made the purchase. With the Browns and yes, the Cavs, I see owners really trying to bring winners to Cleveland. I don't see that resolve from Dolan.
End of my rant.
Mike
IN DORSEY I TRUST -
I was curious on what the situation was because i know we still sell out the Q and we were pretty pathetic this year....I dont really follow baseball like i do Football but i always root for the Tribe and was wondering why there games didnt sell out like the other teams...But i guess i understand now and i dont expect fans to attend the games when they let C.C. Sabbatha and Cliff Lee get away from the franchise...
Baseball really needs a salary cap to make it a more comptietive league, Red Sox and Yankees buy all the players they want and it seems to be okay i really dont understand it
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Did anyone else see that the dress like a green seat promotion worked tonight?
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Big Talking Homo Southerns ... come on up and attend a Baseball game in fridgid rain with snow still lingering. Screw baseball in the 'winter'.
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Did anyone else see that the dress like a green seat promotion worked tonight?
Did anyone else see that the dress like a green seat promotion worked tonight?
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'Peen,
Normally you & I are in agreement, but not on this one. Dolan bought a team on a record string of sellouts with a SOLID track record of winning & fans buying Tribe gear like it was going out of style. He almost immediately cut payroll, let our good players leave & THEN had the nerve to say he would start spending money when the fans did. In other words, spend top dollar for an inferior product! Not this boy....I don't have money to waste & won't buy another Tribe ticket until he sells the team to a REAL owner. If he didn't have the money & competitive pride to do his best to field a contender, he should not have made the purchase. With the Browns and yes, the Cavs, I see owners really trying to bring winners to Cleveland. I don't see that resolve from Dolan.
End of my rant.
Mike
'Peen,
Normally you & I are in agreement, but not on this one. Dolan bought a team on a record string of sellouts with a SOLID track record of winning & fans buying Tribe gear like it was going out of style. He almost immediately cut payroll, let our good players leave & THEN had the nerve to say he would start spending money when the fans did. In other words, spend top dollar for an inferior product! Not this boy....I don't have money to waste & won't buy another Tribe ticket until he sells the team to a REAL owner. If he didn't have the money & competitive pride to do his best to field a contender, he should not have made the purchase. With the Browns and yes, the Cavs, I see owners really trying to bring winners to Cleveland. I don't see that resolve from Dolan.
End of my rant.
Mike
I know we do, and this is more a point of view then it is agree or disagree, so all is cool here.
I guess my only point is driving the guy further in debt to make a point doesn't seem to be the way to get a better team.
JMO
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. -
Big Talking Homo Southerns ... come on up and attend a Baseball game in fridgid rain with snow still lingering. Screw baseball in the 'winter'.
Big Talking Homo Southerns ... come on up and attend a Baseball game in fridgid rain with snow still lingering. Screw baseball in the 'winter'.
I guess you are talking to me since I am the only southerner on this thread unless you are including Canton as a southern city.
I said over the course of the season. No doubt baseball starts too early. Especially in a stadium without a dome, in a climate that is cold 9-10 months of the year.
"Let's build a outdoor stadium on the shores of a Great Lake where the weather is unpredictable and cold most of the year."
When I come up for a couple of games this year, I expect to see your ass sitting next to me where we can watch and talk baseball.
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I mean I see both sides of the argument here. I know Paul Dolan isn't necessarily a wealthy owner, but come on. He can't expect to not stretch his budget and take a chance to support fans coming to the ball park. Peen, I love the tribe and watch them every night. I live in NC, but if I lived in Cleveland I wouldn't be going to games often. Baseball is extremely unique in that you can spend as much as you want to build your team. Cleveland is NOT a small market team, yet our payroll is $50 million. I know it goes both ways, but that old saying rings true: gotta spend money to make money. Oh, how I think what our team could be if Dolan was aggressive and paid people. C.C, cliff Lee come to mind..
Bottom line, we're slowly turning into the pirates. We actually get good talent, but trade em away and keep losing.
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Trust me, I see both sides as well.
I just don't see how boycotting the team or taking in a token game or two is going to solve anything.
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Trust me, I see both sides as well.
I just don't see how boycotting the team or taking in a token game or two is going to solve anything.
Trust me, I see both sides as well.
I just don't see how boycotting the team or taking in a token game or two is going to solve anything.
yea i agree, that's just a tough question to answer and both sides are right IMO. On the one hand, we should support the city and the team no matter what. I think most fans in Cleveland do that. But on the other hand, if everyone had your particular mindset it would lead to Dolan thinking "man, I don't have to spend money to make a team worth anything and these fools will still make me rich!" Ya know? There's just not a right or wrong solution to the problem, I just think in the MLB if you're in a market that supports it you HAVE to go out and spend money, there's no excuse not to.
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WOW was I shocked when I attended the Indians game Saturday and only 9800 people were in attendance and they were lucky if that many were there. Sunday was even worse 8700 what is up with that.
WOW was I shocked when I attended the Indians game Saturday and only 9800 people were in attendance and they were lucky if that many were there. Sunday was even worse 8700 what is up with that.
I was gonna ask the same thing, i heard them bashing Cleveland on Espn because of there were so many open seats and shit....I dont live in Cleveland but if i did no matter how shitty the Indians were id be there for there Opening Day, Love me some Tribe
I am not surprised. The Dolans have made a concerted effort to alienate the Indians fan base so they are simply reaping what they have sown.
They purposely stripped the team of nearly all the talent they had a couple of years back, then expected the fans to support the minor league product they put on the field. The fans are not that stupid and they are demonstrating that fact. If I want to see minor league baseball I will go to an Akron Aeros game.
I was gonna say...how much support do you expect the fans to give a FARM team. Thats what the Indians have become, a talent grabber for the bigger teams to make a run at the postseason with. I would assume the owners are more worried about the value of a player than the talent that he can bring to the ballpark daily with. It's sad really. This team has made me stop watching baseball as a whole. They need a salary cap in baseball if they plan on saving "America's Pasttime"...
so, this isn't some rival BS question........................but what's the difference between the indians and the browns?
when i said you guys should not show up to browns games to protest the sucktitude of the franchise i was told that that would be a bandwagon fan type thing to do.
but when the indians play in a ballpark that resembles a ghost town it's "what the ownership deserves".
isn't that also what the browns ownership deserves? like i said, not trying in anyway to stir the pot, just wondering.
with all i've heard about Big Ben being a rapist and i go to a online sex offender registry and look up cleveland and Pittsburgh and what do i find? cleveland has a CRAP load more sex offenders (and expecially child molesters) than Pittsburgh.......over 4X as many over all. 2055 of them to Pittsburgh's 421. www.familywatchdog.us better never hear one of you date raping, can't get a woman with my tiny peep unless i hold her down, child molesting hypocrits say anything else about Ben. -
'Peen,
Normally you & I are in agreement, but not on this one. Dolan bought a team on a record string of sellouts with a SOLID track record of winning & fans buying Tribe gear like it was going out of style. He almost immediately cut payroll, let our good players leave & THEN had the nerve to say he would start spending money when the fans did. In other words, spend top dollar for an inferior product! Not this boy....I don't have money to waste & won't buy another Tribe ticket until he sells the team to a REAL owner. If he didn't have the money & competitive pride to do his best to field a contender, he should not have made the purchase. With the Browns and yes, the Cavs, I see owners really trying to bring winners to Cleveland. I don't see that resolve from Dolan.
End of my rant.
Mike
I know we do, and this is more a point of view then it is agree or disagree, so all is cool here.
I guess my only point is driving the guy further in debt to make a point doesn't seem to be the way to get a better team.
JMO
I know we do, and this is more a point of view then it is agree or disagree, so all is cool here.
I guess my only point is driving the guy further in debt to make a point doesn't seem to be the way to get a better team.
JMO
The key here is that Dolan bought the team strictly for his ego. He wanted to compete with his brother or cousin or whoever it is that runs the Knicks and a couple of other NY based teams, but...he didn't really have the wherewithal to own a major league franchise. He had to pay Jacobs a fairly inflated price for the team.....and then he had to strip the team to make the debt service for its purchase.
It is rumored that instead of taking the money he gets from revenue sharing to improve the team, he is putting that money into paying off the purchase price of the team. And it is my understanding that that was NOT supposed to be the purpose of the revenue sharing funds.
Dolan is an a big Catch 22....or toilet drain. He is like the young couple that buys a huge 4000 square foot house, then he realizes that it takes every penny he earns to pay the mortgage....thus he cannot furnish the house, so he has to use a card table to dine on and a futon to sleep on...and he has to strip the house of its chandeliers and its sconces just to pay the mortgage.
Like that couple, Dolan should have never bought this house to begin with, and like them, his pride and ego are too large to admit his mistake so he refuses to sell.....and continues to sleep on that futon indefinitely.
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I know we do, and this is more a point of view then it is agree or disagree, so all is cool here.
I guess my only point is driving the guy further in debt to make a point doesn't seem to be the way to get a better team.
JMO
The key here is that Dolan bought the team strictly for his ego. He wanted to compete with his brother or cousin or whoever it is that runs the Knicks and a couple of other NY based teams, but...he didn't really have the wherewithal to own a major league franchise. He had to pay Jacobs a fairly inflated price for the team.....and then he had to strip the team to make the debt service for its purchase.
It is rumored that instead of taking the money he gets from revenue sharing to improve the team, he is putting that money into paying off the purchase price of the team. And it is my understanding that that was NOT supposed to be the purpose of the revenue sharing funds.
Dolan is an a big Catch 22....or toilet drain. He is like the young couple that buys a huge 4000 square foot house, then he realizes that it takes every penny he earns to pay the mortgage....thus he cannot furnish the house, so he has to use a card table to dine on and a futon to sleep on...and he has to strip the house of its chandeliers and its sconces just to pay the mortgage.
Like that couple, Dolan should have never bought this house to begin with, and like them, his pride and ego are too large to admit his mistake so he refuses to sell.....and continues to sleep on that futon indefinitely.
The key here is that Dolan bought the team strictly for his ego. He wanted to compete with his brother or cousin or whoever it is that runs the Knicks and a couple of other NY based teams, but...he didn't really have the wherewithal to own a major league franchise. He had to pay Jacobs a fairly inflated price for the team.....and then he had to strip the team to make the debt service for its purchase.
It is rumored that instead of taking the money he gets from revenue sharing to improve the team, he is putting that money into paying off the purchase price of the team. And it is my understanding that that was NOT supposed to be the purpose of the revenue sharing funds.
Dolan is an a big Catch 22....or toilet drain. He is like the young couple that buys a huge 4000 square foot house, then he realizes that it takes every penny he earns to pay the mortgage....thus he cannot furnish the house, so he has to use a card table to dine on and a futon to sleep on...and he has to strip the house of its chandeliers and its sconces just to pay the mortgage.
Like that couple, Dolan should have never bought this house to begin with, and like them, his pride and ego are too large to admit his mistake so he refuses to sell.....and continues to sleep on that futon indefinitely.
Good analogy Gipper
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WOW was I shocked when I attended the Indians game Saturday and only 9800 people were in attendance and they were lucky if that many were there. Sunday was even worse 8700 what is up with that.
I was gonna ask the same thing, i heard them bashing Cleveland on Espn because of there were so many open seats and shit....I dont live in Cleveland but if i did no matter how shitty the Indians were id be there for there Opening Day, Love me some Tribe
I am not surprised. The Dolans have made a concerted effort to alienate the Indians fan base so they are simply reaping what they have sown.
They purposely stripped the team of nearly all the talent they had a couple of years back, then expected the fans to support the minor league product they put on the field. The fans are not that stupid and they are demonstrating that fact. If I want to see minor league baseball I will go to an Akron Aeros game.
I was gonna say...how much support do you expect the fans to give a FARM team. Thats what the Indians have become, a talent grabber for the bigger teams to make a run at the postseason with. I would assume the owners are more worried about the value of a player than the talent that he can bring to the ballpark daily with. It's sad really. This team has made me stop watching baseball as a whole. They need a salary cap in baseball if they plan on saving "America's Pasttime"...
so, this isn't some rival BS question........................but what's the difference between the indians and the browns?
when i said you guys should not show up to browns games to protest the sucktitude of the franchise i was told that that would be a bandwagon fan type thing to do.
but when the indians play in a ballpark that resembles a ghost town it's "what the ownership deserves".
isn't that also what the browns ownership deserves? like i said, not trying in anyway to stir the pot, just wondering.
so, this isn't some rival BS question........................but what's the difference between the indians and the browns?
when i said you guys should not show up to browns games to protest the sucktitude of the franchise i was told that that would be a bandwagon fan type thing to do.
but when the indians play in a ballpark that resembles a ghost town it's "what the ownership deserves".
isn't that also what the browns ownership deserves? like i said, not trying in anyway to stir the pot, just wondering.
The difference is that with the Browns you see the willingness and attempt to turn out a good product on the field...there have just been poor choices made or poor luck. The Browns and Lerner have always tried....they have just been inept.
I don't know that the Indians are all that inept. I think Mark Shapiro has done as good a job as anyone can expect given the circumstances. Its just that the circumstances he is in is intolerable, i.e. ownership. I believe this ownership group willingly got into this venture knowing that they were not up to the task of maintaining the winning ways that it had under Jacobs.
In truth, many here have said that the wrong owners bought the wrong team. The Dolans should have bought the Browns with the NFL's guaranteed income and salary cap, and Lerner should have bought the Indians....because baseball takes deeper pockets and someone willing to risk those deep pockets on bringing a winner. Lerner had the money to compete in baseball where the Dolans don't. (at least not these Dolans).
FYI, when the Browns franchise was up for bid by the NFL, do you know who came in second place in the bid behind Al Lerner?: Charles Dolan.
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The big issue for me is that Baseball as a whole has taken such a huge hit ala "steroids" and other "enhancing" drugs that the commissioner has to take a stand on fixing the league. Stack on top of that, our owner is the cheapest SOB in the MLB and you are giving your fans very little to get excited about. Hence its showing up in attendance and sales as a whole. Giving todays financial circumstances, if the owner doesn't lower prices, or start paying for talent, he is as good as dead as an owner in this league. You go to the games for enjoyment and fun. What they put on the field yearly is neither enjoyable or fun. Add also the great talent they keep trading off (2 consecutive CY YOUNG winners?) and it seems like we are living the Major League movies for real...
Who let the DAWGS out?? -
The big issue for me is that Baseball as a whole has taken such a huge hit ala "steroids" and other "enhancing" drugs that the commissioner has to take a stand on fixing the league. Stack on top of that, our owner is the cheapest SOB in the MLB and you are giving your fans very little to get excited about. Hence its showing up in attendance and sales as a whole. Giving todays financial circumstances, if the owner doesn't lower prices, or start paying for talent, he is as good as dead as an owner in this league. You go to the games for enjoyment and fun. What they put on the field yearly is neither enjoyable or fun. Add also the great talent they keep trading off (2 consecutive CY YOUNG winners?) and it seems like we are living the Major League movies for real...
The big issue for me is that Baseball as a whole has taken such a huge hit ala "steroids" and other "enhancing" drugs that the commissioner has to take a stand on fixing the league. Stack on top of that, our owner is the cheapest SOB in the MLB and you are giving your fans very little to get excited about. Hence its showing up in attendance and sales as a whole. Giving todays financial circumstances, if the owner doesn't lower prices, or start paying for talent, he is as good as dead as an owner in this league. You go to the games for enjoyment and fun. What they put on the field yearly is neither enjoyable or fun. Add also the great talent they keep trading off (2 consecutive CY YOUNG winners?) and it seems like we are living the Major League movies for real...
Except Miami already got their team.
Plus, really, what market is out there trying to lure a baseball team to their town? Charlotte? Nashville? Indianapolis? San Antonio? Las Vegas?
Actually, you know where I would put a team if it were up tome? New York/New Jersey. I would try to siphon off a ton of the Yankees support.
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