Is This Racist? Didn't They Used To Call Bush A Chimp?
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"There's no slur, no insult too hurtful or vile for your team to hurl at those you hate as long as they're part of what you see as opposition."
Let's just get this out of the way: I don't mind insults, even some that are crass or vile or hurtful, if they make a real point. If I think they make a worthwhile point, I don't generally care about hurt feelings.
I'm just not a big fan of racism. Or a few other of the "-isms."
If you can show me a similar example of left-wing racism, I'd be happy to say, "Yep, that's racist." If you can show me something you think is "vile" or "hurtful" or over the line, go right ahead. But off hand, I don't know what you're referring to.
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That made me laugh.
Again, it's not the racism that's the problem; it's the people who point out racism. If someone starts a thread asking if calling black people monkeys is racist and you say yes, you're the problem, not to mention showing off.
Also: if you imagine there's a Constitutional right to be protected from assholes, or that that's what this is about, you're wrong. Even if I don't think that and it isn't.
But I think we got your opinion on racism:
"...yeah it's racist.
So what?
Sounds about right.
But I think we got your opinion on racism:
"...yeah it's racist.
So what?
Sounds about right.
Pretty much.
Yes Heck there are some assholes in the world.
Always have been; al
ways will be.
So what?
WSS
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"There's no slur, no insult too hurtful or vile for your team to hurl at those you hate as long as they're part of what you see as opposition."
Let's just get this out of the way: I don't mind insults, even some that are crass or vile or hurtful, if they make a real point. If I think they make a worthwhile point, I don't generally care about hurt feelings.
I'm just not a big fan of racism. Or a few other of the "-isms."
If you can show me a similar example of left-wing racism, I'd be happy to say, "Yep, that's racist." If you can show me something you think is "vile" or "hurtful" or over the line, go right ahead. But off hand, I don't know what you're referring to.
If you can show me something you think is "vile" or "hurtful" or over the line, go right ahead. But off hand, I don't know what you're referring to.
http://semiskimmed.net/bushhitler.html
http://www.tvnewslies.org/html/george_w__bush_-_world_s_leadi.html
http://entertainment.timesonline.co.uk/tol/arts_and_entertainment/music/article4703539.ece
http://www.rense.com/general57/newbook.htm
http://politicalhumor.about.com/library/images/blbushchimpanzee.htm
http://www.topix.com/forum/religion/islam/T68F2Q3IRSHMPGJAV
http://www.mooreexposed.com/swm.html
And...
That took a minute.
WSS
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If you can show me something you think is "vile" or "hurtful" or over the line, go right ahead. But off hand, I don't know what you're referring to.
http://semiskimmed.net/bushhitler.html
http://www.tvnewslies.org/html/george_w__bush_-_world_s_leadi.html
http://entertainment.timesonline.co.uk/tol/arts_and_entertainment/music/article4703539.ece
http://www.rense.com/general57/newbook.htm
http://politicalhumor.about.com/library/images/blbushchimpanzee.htm
http://www.topix.com/forum/religion/islam/T68F2Q3IRSHMPGJAV
http://www.mooreexposed.com/swm.html
And...
That took a minute.
WSS
http://semiskimmed.net/bushhitler.html
http://www.tvnewslie...ld_s_leadi.html
http://entertainment...icle4703539.ece
http://www.rense.com...l57/newbook.htm
http://politicalhumo...hchimpanzee.htm
http://www.topix.com...8F2Q3IRSHMPGJAV
http://www.mooreexposed.com/swm.html
http://www.city-data...ders-white.html
http://mediatakeout....people_of_color
And...
That took a minute.
WSS
But it's okay. It's about Bush. And he is white.
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So the NBPP were the guys "guarding" the polling stations.
Ya suppose there'd have been a bigger outcry if it was Klan members or is this "double standard" OK too?
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Okay. Louis Farrakhan, Michael Moore, Russell Brand. All saying ridiculous stuff I don't agree with.
The New Black Panthers don't like white people so much. They're anti-white organization, one that's also essentially powerless. They shouldn't be wearing batons on their belt in front of polling stations.
Point being, Steve, is that you think this stuff is bad. And some of it is. Because it's against Republicans or white people. When it's against black people you say, "Who cares?" And then ask me why I'm not upset when it happens to Republicans or white people, like you are. And then you accuse me of having a double standard.
None of this really has to do with what we're talking about in this thread. Racism is a problem. And it's not the same thing as being an asshole. (Come on now.) When applied, racism denies people equal opportunity. It's also the lingering problem from the most sordid part of our history that's worth eliminating to the extent that you can eliminate it. It's also completely counter to what we stand for as a nation. That's "So what?"
Forwarding a racist email isn't the worst example of racism I can think of in 2 seconds or less, but if the question is, "Is likening black people to monkeys racist?" the answer is clearly yes. It's textbook racism - the belief that blacks are sub-human race. That's practically the definition of racism.
The question then becomes what should be the price for racism, particularly for a public or political official who represents something larger than their personal opinion. This woman, for instance, just said she wouldn't resign because she thinks that email is satire. (Again, probably not all that familiar with what satire is, or that satire can be racist, too.)
So before you go all off on one your tangents (though you already have) about racism and the left and everything else that bugs you, if you really want to ask "So what?" about this incident, then you should probably stick to the incident instead of cramming everything else that bugs you into the discussion.
So, what should happen to a political official who sends around a "black people are monkeys - haha!" email? What do you think?
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Okay. Louis Farrakhan, Michael Moore, Russell Brand. All saying ridiculous stuff I don't agree with.
The New Black Panthers don't like white people so much. They're anti-white organization, one that's also essentially powerless. They shouldn't be wearing batons on their belt in front of polling stations.
Point being, Steve, is that you think this stuff is bad. And some of it is. Because it's against Republicans or white people. When it's against black people you say, "Who cares?" And then ask me why I'm not upset when it happens to Republicans or white people, like you are. And then you accuse me of having a double standard.
None of this really has to do with what we're talking about in this thread. Racism is a problem. And it's not the same thing as being an asshole. (Come on now.) When applied, racism denies people equal opportunity. It's also the lingering problem from the most sordid part of our history that's worth eliminating to the extent that you can eliminate it. It's also completely counter to what we stand for as a nation. That's "So what?"
Forwarding a racist email isn't the worst example of racism I can think of in 2 seconds or less, but if the question is, "Is likening black people to monkeys racist?" the answer is clearly yes. It's textbook racism - the belief that blacks are sub-human race. That's practically the definition of racism.
The question then becomes what should be the price for racism, particularly for a public or political official who represents something larger than their personal opinion. This woman, for instance, just said she wouldn't resign because she thinks that email is satire. (Again, probably not all that familiar with what satire is, or that satire can be racist, too.)
So before you go all off on one your tangents (though you already have) about racism and the left and everything else that bugs you, if you really want to ask "So what?" about this incident, then you should probably stick to the incident instead of cramming everything else that bugs you into the discussion.
So, what should happen to a political official who sends around a "black people are monkeys - haha!" email? What do you think?
Okay. Louis Farrakhan, Michael Moore, Russell Brand. All saying ridiculous stuff I don't agree with.
Uh so what?
If I say I don't agree with those who think Negroes are monkeys or interracial marriage should be illegal how many brownie points does it buy me?
The New Black Panthers don't like white people so much.
LOL No shit.
Isn't that like saying the American Nazi Party doesn't like Jews so much?
They're anti-white organization, one that's also essentially powerless.
So they're cool.
I see.
They shouldn't be wearing batons on their belt in front of polling stations.
Duh.
But they were.
And the outcry was minimal.
Imagine the Klan guarding polling stations.
Point being, Steve, is that you think this stuff is bad. And some of it is. Because it's against Republicans or white people.of cramming everything else that bugs you into the discussion.
No Heck that's not the point at all.
The point is that you softpedal shitty behavior for groups that vote Democrat.
And demonize me for thinking that it happens on both sides.
So, what should happen to a political official who sends around a "black people are monkeys - haha!" email? What do you think?
Oh gee Heck. Public execution of some kind?
Hanging, beheading or burned at the stake?
What do you think?
Should Diehard lose his job?
Be fined?
Jailed?
ps
"about this incident, then you should probably stick to the incident instead of cramming everything else that bugs you into the discussion."
You did challenge me to give examples.
And the "so what" is valid at least until I call for some kind of retribution to Moore Farrakhan et al..
WSS
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Let's try that again: in this instance, where you have a woman who works for the Republican Party in California passing along a clearly racist email, what should be her sanction, if any? What would you do?
Here's what Scott Baugh, the County GOP leader, thinks: he considered it "dripping with racism and in very poor taste." He wants her to resign from her elected post on the county's central committee. (Must be one of those liberal race-baiters who uses race issues to divide us and buy votes.)
What would you do in this situation if you were her superior? Don't pretend that someone wants the woman burned at the stake. What would you do?
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To me, the worst thing about the e-mail is that it trivializes the tremendous harm Obama is doing to our democracy. We're going to look a lot like Libya by the time he's through with us.
Paxton
*********************
Exactly. And Heck bickering about side issues.... also trivializes the damage that Obamao is doing...
in perfect liberal avoidance of reality form.
Liberalism is a dangerous cult. Dangerous to our country.
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Let's try that again: in this instance, where you have a woman who works for the Republican Party in California passing along a clearly racist email, what should be her sanction, if any? What would you do?
Here's what Scott Baugh, the County GOP leader, thinks: he considered it "dripping with racism and in very poor taste." He wants her to resign from her elected post on the county's central committee. (Must be one of those liberal race-baiters who uses race issues to divide us and buy votes.)
What would you do in this situation if you were her superior? Don't pretend that someone wants the woman burned at the stake. What would you do?
Let's try that again:
Meaning you got your butt smacked in the last series so lets refocus on something else."
Fine.
in this instance, where you have a woman who works for the Republican Party in California passing along a clearly racist email, what should be her sanction, if any? What would you do?
In a perfect world one would issue a statement along the lines of "Oh come on. It was a joke, but nobody here thinks Obama is actually a monkey and sorry if we offended any one."
In the real world of demegogues and cloying political correctness I suppose one might issue an over the top statement like the one below.
Here's what Scott Baugh, the County GOP leader, thinks: he considered it "dripping with racism and in very poor taste." He wants her to resign from her elected post on the county's central committee
(Must be one of those liberal race-baiters who uses race issues to divide us and buy votes.)
Close. No doubt he's playing the game for votes.
It sounded to me like a guy making an over the top statement to appease the chronically outraged groups with nothing better to do that stage a protest.
Hey, kind like you!
Seriously if some Democrat made a joke about a drunk Irishman and I demanded justice would you think I was being ridiculous or would you do the official bow and scrape?
What would you do in this situation if you were her superior? Don't pretend that someone wants the woman burned at the stake. What would you do?
I'd pretend I was outraged and make her issue a faux apology while you guys did the superior dance.
WSS
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Aye aye aye.
Yes, Steve, I'm reeling from your onslaught of winning arguments, like calling blacks monkeys and calling an Irishman a drunk are the same thing. (While you're at it, maybe you can explain how calling a Jew a "Jew!" is the same thing as calling a Presbyterian a "Presbyterian!") Suggesting that not liking someone because of their race and not like someone because they're an asshole are the same thing - that was another good one. Trotting out someone Fox News dug up from the NBPP and suggesting he is the same thing to Democratic Party as someone in the California Republican Party is for the Republican Party - another gem. He Who Can Not Distinguish Between Two Unlike Things, take yet another bow. Honestly, get over yourself. I'm getting side messages from people about how lost you are. I wouldn't be so quick to imagine yourself found. This is not the stuff of victory dances. It's to be laughed at in a logic class at a community college.
Funny, again, that you admitted that this email was racist. Just like you admitted that believing that interracial marriage should be illegal is racist. And the only problem you have with either situation? Anyone who might think being racist, or making racist jokes, is a bad thing, and says so. Not a single word in all of this for the actual racism, or the person involved. Just contempt for the people who mention it.
Nor did you ever ask what I would do in this situation. You just assumed I was "outraged." Just contempt for me for trying to explain why calling black monkeys and calling Bush a chimp are two very different things, and for explaining how, yes, this is a racist joke. That's all I've been arguing.
Also, "Oh come on. It was a joke." Doesn't really work here. The problem is that the joke is racist. At it's core, this email is the same thing as typing out the sentence, "You know why Obama doesn't have a birth certificate? Because he's from a family of monkeys." That's the joke. Just like that Seth MacFarlane "joke" on Family Guy was the same thing as typing out, "Isn't it funny that Sarah Palin has a Down Syndrome baby?" So, you can either apologize for not knowing it was racist, or for your lapse in judgment. But apologizing for thinking racism was funny and forwarding it on to your friends probably isn't going to get you anywhere.
"Sorry you can't take a racist joke and roll with it, people!"
This is where you don't seem to get it. Whether it's your past statements about "illiterate welfare criminals" or something like this, you don't seem to get the crux of it is that these are racist sentiments. Racism is, well, bad. When you issue an apology it should note that you understand this, and that you didn't think it through, and you're sorry for your lapse in judgment. Instead, you'd like you remind people that they should accept that, while you're making racist statements, or finding racist emails funny, that they should understand that you're not racist it all and blow it off. Once again, it's not accepting that there's anything wrong with racism.
Whether or not you believe Democrats overplay this hand is irrelevant here. That's your go-to speech every time, but you're missing the point.
For the record, I think the woman should want to - if not be made to - apologize for forwarding on that email. It should show that she understands what the problem with it is. (It's racist.) To this date, she's refused to do that. In the meantime, if I were her boss, I'd make sure there aren't more examples of this type of behavior. If she was an otherwise exemplary employee who is just an old lady who doesn't know any better, that would be the end of it. (Assuming she apologized.) If this was a larger pattern - if she really, really likes racist humor or made lots of these types of comments - clearly then you'd make sure she resigned as soon as possible, because you don't want your organization associated with racism, or be thought of as an organization that condones racism.
Perhaps this is an extreme, liberal position in your mind, but I really don't think it is. I also suspect it's pretty much what the Republican Party in Orange County thinks, too.
And no, Diehard doesn't have to resign.
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Aye aye aye.
Yes, Steve, I'm reeling from your onslaught of winning arguments, like calling blacks monkeys and calling an Irishman a drunk are the same thing. (While you're at it, maybe you can explain how calling a Jew a "Jew!" is the same thing as calling a Presbyterian a "Presbyterian!") Suggesting that not liking someone because of their race and not like someone because they're an asshole are the same thing - that was another good one. Trotting out someone Fox News dug up from the NBPP and suggesting he is the same thing to Democratic Party as someone in the California Republican Party is for the Republican Party - another gem. He Who Can Not Distinguish Between Two Unlike Things, take yet another bow. Honestly, get over yourself. I'm getting side messages from people about how lost you are. I wouldn't be so quick to imagine yourself found. This is not the stuff of victory dances. It's to be laughed at in a logic class at a community college.
Funny, again, that you admitted that this email was racist. Just like you admitted that believing that interracial marriage should be illegal is racist. And the only problem you have with either situation? Anyone who might think being racist, or making racist jokes, is a bad thing, and says so. Not a single word in all of this for the actual racism, or the person involved. Just contempt for the people who mention it.
Nor did you ever ask what I would do in this situation. You just assumed I was "outraged." Just contempt for me for trying to explain why calling black monkeys and calling Bush a chimp are two very different things, and for explaining how, yes, this is a racist joke. That's all I've been arguing.
Also, "Oh come on. It was a joke." Doesn't really work here. The problem is that the joke is racist. At it's core, this email is the same thing as typing out the sentence, "You know why Obama doesn't have a birth certificate? Because he's from a family of monkeys." That's the joke. Just like that Seth MacFarlane "joke" on Family Guy was the same thing as typing out, "Isn't it funny that Sarah Palin has a Down Syndrome baby?" So, you can either apologize for not knowing it was racist, or for your lapse in judgment. But apologizing for thinking racism was funny and forwarding it on to your friends probably isn't going to get you anywhere.
"Sorry you can't take a racist joke and roll with it, people!"
This is where you don't seem to get it. Whether it's your past statements about "illiterate welfare criminals" or something like this, you don't seem to get the crux of it is that these are racist sentiments. Racism is, well, bad. When you issue an apology it should note that you understand this, and that you didn't think it through, and you're sorry for your lapse in judgment. Instead, you'd like you remind people that they should accept that, while you're making racist statements, or finding racist emails funny, that they should understand that you're not racist it all and blow it off. Once again, it's not accepting that there's anything wrong with racism.
Whether or not you believe Democrats overplay this hand is irrelevant here. That's your go-to speech every time, but you're missing the point.
For the record, I think the woman should want to - if not be made to - apologize for forwarding on that email. It should show that she understands what the problem with it is. (It's racist.) To this date, she's refused to do that. In the meantime, if I were her boss, I'd make sure there aren't more examples of this type of behavior. If she was an otherwise exemplary employee who is just an old lady who doesn't know any better, that would be the end of it. (Assuming she apologized.) If this was a larger pattern - if she really, really likes racist humor or made lots of these types of comments - clearly then you'd make sure she resigned as soon as possible, because you don't want your organization associated with racism, or be thought of as an organization that condones racism.
Perhaps this is an extreme, liberal position in your mind, but I really don't think it is. I also suspect it's pretty much what the Republican Party in Orange County thinks, too.
And no, Diehard doesn't have to resign.
Aye aye aye.
Careful Heck.
YOu're mocking the dialect of Hispanics.
You might get fired.
I'm getting side messages from people about how lost you are.
Then (and I have a guess) whoever that may be is free to speak on the record.
I'll read the rest later.
WSS
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I don't know what more there is to say anyway.
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Aye Aye Aye Heck
***************
What? Mocking all Hispanics AND all of our Navy military personnel?
That does it, I'm offended.
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Steve, the messages usually take the form of, "Why do you bother?" They're in no hurry to join our stupid discussion.
And I don't blame them.
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Steve, the messages usually take the form of, "Why do you bother?" They're in no hurry to join our stupid discussion.
And I don't blame them.
Steve, the messages usually take the form of, "Why do you bother?" They're in no hurry to join our stupid discussion.
And I don't blame them.
Well I can answer that Heck.
It's not from any liberal or love thy brother attitude that you have and I don't.
It's simply that you're a born demagogue.
I don't think you or any of your fanbase really believe that the way to heal the divide between any two groups is to make up a seperate set of social mores for each of them.
I don't believe for a second that anyone buys that the double standard you support, no, demand setsn the stage for assimilation. Without assimilation there will never be equality.
And I don't think anyone here will deny that it's about time to stop blaming someone else else for the shortcomings of an insulated society.
The allure of praise over wine and cheese is too much to give up I suppose.
WSS
www.westsidesteve.com www.myspace.com/westsidestevemusic www.cdbaby.com/artist/westsidestevesimmons -
Why do I bother indeed.
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Why do I bother indeed.
Why do I bother indeed.
No idea.
Training for the non response hyperbolic Olympics?
WSS
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Steve, the messages usually take the form of, "Why do you bother?" They're in no hurry to join our stupid discussion.
And I don't blame them.
Well I can answer that Heck.
It's not from any liberal or love thy brother attitude that you have and I don't.
It's simply that you're a born demagogue.
I don't think you or any of your fanbase really believe that the way to heal the divide between any two groups is to make up a seperate set of social mores for each of them.
I don't believe for a second that anyone buys that the double standard you support, no, demand setsn the stage for assimilation. Without assimilation there will never be equality.
And I don't think anyone here will deny that it's about time to stop blaming someone else else for the shortcomings of an insulated society.
The allure of praise over wine and cheese is too much to give up I suppose.
WSS
I don't think you or any of your fanbase really believe that the way to heal the divide between any two groups is to make up a seperate set of social mores for each of them.
I don't believe for a second that anyone buys that the double standard you support, no, demand setsn the stage for assimilation. Without assimilation there will never be equality.
And I don't think anyone here will deny that it's about time to stop blaming someone else else for the shortcomings of an insulated society.
WSS
And again to your "why bother" query I suspect you know what I wrote here is rational.
And though you'll never admit it you're fully aware that the double standard you promote stops assimilation and widens the gap.
But you've decided to make me your personal straw man.
It's OK to admit you were wrong.
WSS
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