Peter King On When Browns Become Legit Playoff Contenders
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In regards to the title of this thread... I would say, "Behind a potent offense that included future Hall of Famers Graham, Motley and Dante Lavelli, the Browns picked up right where they left off in the AAFC. After going 10–2 in the regular season, they defeated the New York Giants 8–3 in a playoff game and then beat Cleveland's previous NFL tenants, the Rams (who were now in Los Angeles), 30–28, in the NFL Championship Game. Since the NFL does not recognize the AAFC's records, this technically makes the Browns the most successful expansion team in league history. However, the 1950 Browns were not an expansion team in any sense of the term." Ok so I would say that they are and were playoff contenders right from the get go. Let's see what happens this season.
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In regards to the title of this thread... I would say, "Behind a potent offense that included future Hall of Famers Graham, Motley and Dante Lavelli, the Browns picked up right where they left off in the AAFC. After going 10–2 in the regular season, they defeated the New York Giants 8–3 in a playoff game and then beat Cleveland's previous NFL tenants, the Rams (who were now in Los Angeles), 30–28, in the NFL Championship Game. Since the NFL does not recognize the AAFC's records, this technically makes the Browns the most successful expansion team in league history. However, the 1950 Browns were not an expansion team in any sense of the term." Ok so I would say that they are and were playoff contenders right from the get go. Let's see what happens this season.
In regards to the title of this thread... I would say, "Behind a potent offense that included future Hall of Famers Graham, Motley and Dante Lavelli, the Browns picked up right where they left off in the AAFC. After going 10–2 in the regular season, they defeated the New York Giants 8–3 in a playoff game and then beat Cleveland's previous NFL tenants, the Rams (who were now in Los Angeles), 30–28, in the NFL Championship Game. Since the NFL does not recognize the AAFC's records, this technically makes the Browns the most successful expansion team in league history. However, the 1950 Browns were not an expansion team in any sense of the term." Ok so I would say that they are and were playoff contenders right from the get go. Let's see what happens this season.
If the Browns had played in the NFL in the years 46-49, they very may well have also won 4 titles in a row there. I think they would have been a shoe-in to win 3. The only real contest would have been in 1946 when the Bears won the NFL title. Those Bears and the Browns could have had an epic battle. The '47 Cards and the 48 and 49 Eagles would have been no match for the Browns.
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New coach. New offense. Mediocre players. Ill leave it at that.
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I'm mainly going to be looking at how our younger players play and the kinds of decisions Shurmur makes.
The playoffs aren't impossible but I'm not going to set myself up for disappointment.
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The playoffs are what happen, when "it" all comes together. If you need an elite wr, a few dominant linemen, another buttkickin rb, another very fast cb, ....
and you get the Browns first excellent coach in years....and you've drafted very smart players who love the game, work ethic and solid guys ....
which I believe the Browns have been doing, and certainly did this year.... with a system that better suits the package?
It happened for the Rams - I believe it may very well happen this year for the Browns. By the way, the Rams had drafted their bookend left tackle a few years before a few years before it happened for them.
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St. Louis RamsFurther information: 1999 St. Louis Rams seasonThe Rams shocked the NFL in 1999 with an NFC-best 133 regular season record, only a year after finishing 4-12. This was the Rams' first playoff appearance in 10 years and only the second Super Bowl appearance in team history.[9] St. Louis was led by undrafted quarterback Kurt Warner, who started the season as backup to Trent Green. Green suffered a season-ending injury in the preseason, making Warner the team's new starter. Warner previously played for the Iowa Barnstormers of the Arena Football League and the Amsterdam Admirals of NFL Europe.[10]
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Zombo said:
Super Bowl.
Colt McCoy is the next NFL Legend.
Peyton Hillis is a truck.
Scott Fujita is a leader of men.
Hayden, Ward and Rubin will be Pro Bowlers.
Thomas and Mack are perennial Pro Bowlers.
Greg Little is Rookie of the year.
This team reminds me of a 5-11 team a decade ago with a second year qb who was drafted late ... They were the NE Patriots.
Super Bowl.
Zombo
Greg Little will not be rookie of the year. He's still really raw, didn't play football last year and will be in a tough, tough division. Rubin won't be a Pro-Bowler either, neither will Ward. Obviously you're going hard and over the top and I'd say there is reason for some excitement in Cleveland but please tell me the above is exaggerated.
AKA SNATCH98 or Rorbotron. The boards glorious admins decided to get cute and change my name to "homotron" Classy group of people. (Lost a bet with Columbus king and got banned for a month) -
Zombo said:
Super Bowl.
Colt McCoy is the next NFL Legend.
Peyton Hillis is a truck.
Scott Fujita is a leader of men.
Hayden, Ward and Rubin will be Pro Bowlers.
Thomas and Mack are perennial Pro Bowlers.
Greg Little is Rookie of the year.
This team reminds me of a 5-11 team a decade ago with a second year qb who was drafted late ... They were the NE Patriots.
Super Bowl.
Zombo
Greg Little will not be rookie of the year. He's still really raw, didn't play football last year and will be in a tough, tough division. Rubin won't be a Pro-Bowler either, neither will Ward. Obviously you're going hard and over the top and I'd say there is reason for some excitement in Cleveland but please tell me the above is exaggerated.
Homotron said:
Greg Little will not be rookie of the year. He's still really raw, didn't play football last year and will be in a tough, tough division. Rubin won't be a Pro-Bowler either, neither will Ward. Obviously you're going hard and over the top and I'd say there is reason for some excitement in Cleveland but please tell me the above is exaggerated.
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Zombo said:
Super Bowl.
Colt McCoy is the next NFL Legend.
Peyton Hillis is a truck.
Scott Fujita is a leader of men.
Hayden, Ward and Rubin will be Pro Bowlers.
Thomas and Mack are perennial Pro Bowlers.
Greg Little is Rookie of the year.
This team reminds me of a 5-11 team a decade ago with a second year qb who was drafted late ... They were the NE Patriots.
Super Bowl.
Zombo
Greg Little will not be rookie of the year. He's still really raw, didn't play football last year and will be in a tough, tough division. Rubin won't be a Pro-Bowler either, neither will Ward. Obviously you're going hard and over the top and I'd say there is reason for some excitement in Cleveland but please tell me the above is exaggerated.
Homotron said:
Greg Little will not be rookie of the year. He's still really raw, didn't play football last year and will be in a tough, tough division. Rubin won't be a Pro-Bowler either, neither will Ward. Obviously you're going hard and over the top and I'd say there is reason for some excitement in Cleveland but please tell me the above is exaggerated.
As far as Little goes I mostly agree with you,However. I dont think any of the above is not a impossibility. Ward especially looks like he can become one of the better safeties in the league and Rubin is very solid. Rubin isnt exactly garbage. The bigger question is. "Will We make the Playoffs" ?....Probably not but, Not impossible. That would be like saying the Stoolers will win 0 games next season. And we both know thats silly. If you had watched Ward "Every week" Like we did...you would see why some of us see pro-bowler potential in the kid. While Rubin is not the biggest DT in the league,hes done more than hold his own. watching these kids only 2 times a year when we play each other isnt gonna give you a real sense of what these kids can do. Im not in any way calling them the Elite at thier respective Positions. But watch them over time before you make ignorant comments like the one you posted up above. Because you definately dont know what the hell your talking about.
Nickers...."There are no old running QB's in the NFL "~Sam Rutigliano~ -
If Ward works on his hands for next season that along nets him at least 3-4 more INT's than last year. He could also improve in his coverage, but at the same time he is a SS and he didn't do too bad in coverage last year. Rubin I think got snubbed from the pro bowl last year as well. He was clearly one of the best NT last season and he registered the most tackles out of any DT last season.
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Homotron said:
Greg Little will not be rookie of the year. He's still really raw, didn't play football last year and will be in a tough, tough division. Rubin won't be a Pro-Bowler either, neither will Ward. Obviously you're going hard and over the top and I'd say there is reason for some excitement in Cleveland but please tell me the above is exaggerated.
As far as Little goes I mostly agree with you,However. I dont think any of the above is not a impossibility. Ward especially looks like he can become one of the better safeties in the league and Rubin is very solid. Rubin isnt exactly garbage. The bigger question is. "Will We make the Playoffs" ?....Probably not but, Not impossible. That would be like saying the Stoolers will win 0 games next season. And we both know thats silly. If you had watched Ward "Every week" Like we did...you would see why some of us see pro-bowler potential in the kid. While Rubin is not the biggest DT in the league,hes done more than hold his own. watching these kids only 2 times a year when we play each other isnt gonna give you a real sense of what these kids can do. Im not in any way calling them the Elite at thier respective Positions. But watch them over time before you make ignorant comments like the one you posted up above. Because you definately dont know what the hell your talking about.
As far as Little goes I mostly agree with you,However. I dont think any of the above is not a impossibility. Ward especially looks like he can become one of the better safeties in the league and Rubin is very solid. Rubin isnt exactly garbage. The bigger question is. "Will We make the Playoffs" ?....Probably not but, Not impossible. That would be like saying the Stoolers will win 0 games next season. And we both know thats silly. If you had watched Ward "Every week" Like we did...you would see why some of us see pro-bowler potential in the kid. While Rubin is not the biggest DT in the league,hes done more than hold his own. watching these kids only 2 times a year when we play each other isnt gonna give you a real sense of what these kids can do. Im not in any way calling them the Elite at thier respective Positions. But watch them over time before you make ignorant comments like the one you posted up above. Because you definately dont know what the hell your talking about.
Ignorant comments? I've watched plenty of the Cleveland Browns over the years and I wasn't implying the above players were/are garbage. What I WAS doing was weighing in their chances against others in the AFC at their positions. Assuming Ed Reed is healthy as well as Troy that's two safeties in the AFC grabbing spots. Rubin also has some steep competition and his position just in the AFC north not to mention the entire AFC. I don't feel that either player is bad but neither is good enough right now to warrant a pro-bowl selection considering the competition.
AKA SNATCH98 or Rorbotron. The boards glorious admins decided to get cute and change my name to "homotron" Classy group of people. (Lost a bet with Columbus king and got banned for a month) -
As far as Little goes I mostly agree with you,However. I dont think any of the above is not a impossibility. Ward especially looks like he can become one of the better safeties in the league and Rubin is very solid. Rubin isnt exactly garbage. The bigger question is. "Will We make the Playoffs" ?....Probably not but, Not impossible. That would be like saying the Stoolers will win 0 games next season. And we both know thats silly. If you had watched Ward "Every week" Like we did...you would see why some of us see pro-bowler potential in the kid. While Rubin is not the biggest DT in the league,hes done more than hold his own. watching these kids only 2 times a year when we play each other isnt gonna give you a real sense of what these kids can do. Im not in any way calling them the Elite at thier respective Positions. But watch them over time before you make ignorant comments like the one you posted up above. Because you definately dont know what the hell your talking about.
Ignorant comments? I've watched plenty of the Cleveland Browns over the years and I wasn't implying the above players were/are garbage. What I WAS doing was weighing in their chances against others in the AFC at their positions. Assuming Ed Reed is healthy as well as Troy that's two safeties in the AFC grabbing spots. Rubin also has some steep competition and his position just in the AFC north not to mention the entire AFC. I don't feel that either player is bad but neither is good enough right now to warrant a pro-bowl selection considering the competition.
Homotron said:
Ignorant comments? I've watched plenty of the Cleveland Browns over the years and I wasn't implying the above players were/are garbage. What I WAS doing was weighing in their chances against others in the AFC at their positions. Assuming Ed Reed is healthy as well as Troy that's two safeties in the AFC grabbing spots. Rubin also has some steep competition and his position just in the AFC north not to mention the entire AFC. I don't feel that either player is bad but neither is good enough right now to warrant a pro-bowl selection considering the competition.
You forget though the pro bowl selects atleast 3 people for each spot at said positions and alternates...and winning cures that...so I think given the scope...the chances are better than you think they are.
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Ward needs to be in the box, which is why it is so important to find someone who is competent at FS. Hagg is a possibility, could be a real steal.
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After I made a long post in this thread: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=19520 , I would have to agree, this all lies on Colt McCoy at this point, we will see what runs amuck for the Browns for years to come next year, consistent playoff contenders or the loathed rebuilders.
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As far as Little goes I mostly agree with you,However. I dont think any of the above is not a impossibility. Ward especially looks like he can become one of the better safeties in the league and Rubin is very solid. Rubin isnt exactly garbage. The bigger question is. "Will We make the Playoffs" ?....Probably not but, Not impossible. That would be like saying the Stoolers will win 0 games next season. And we both know thats silly. If you had watched Ward "Every week" Like we did...you would see why some of us see pro-bowler potential in the kid. While Rubin is not the biggest DT in the league,hes done more than hold his own. watching these kids only 2 times a year when we play each other isnt gonna give you a real sense of what these kids can do. Im not in any way calling them the Elite at thier respective Positions. But watch them over time before you make ignorant comments like the one you posted up above. Because you definately dont know what the hell your talking about.
Ignorant comments? I've watched plenty of the Cleveland Browns over the years and I wasn't implying the above players were/are garbage. What I WAS doing was weighing in their chances against others in the AFC at their positions. Assuming Ed Reed is healthy as well as Troy that's two safeties in the AFC grabbing spots. Rubin also has some steep competition and his position just in the AFC north not to mention the entire AFC. I don't feel that either player is bad but neither is good enough right now to warrant a pro-bowl selection considering the competition.
Homotron said:
Ignorant comments? I've watched plenty of the Cleveland Browns over the years and I wasn't implying the above players were/are garbage. What I WAS doing was weighing in their chances against others in the AFC at their positions. Assuming Ed Reed is healthy as well as Troy that's two safeties in the AFC grabbing spots. Rubin also has some steep competition and his position just in the AFC north not to mention the entire AFC. I don't feel that either player is bad but neither is good enough right now to warrant a pro-bowl selection considering the competition.
Ed Reed is basically on his way to retirement. Polamalu is starting a slide downhill with age and injuries. He might have another Pro Bowl year under his belt, but that slide is starting. If there is a new sheriff in town at FS in the AFCN it is Ward. That doesn't mean he will be a lock for Pro Bowl, as there are 3 other divisions in the AFC.
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Yeah i feel the same as far as Reed and Polamalu are concernied, Reed is on his way to retirement and Polamalu was a weak link for the Steelers Defense in the SB...
Ward is an up and coming play maker who if he can work a lil bit on his cover skills i feel will be a Pro Bowler..
And Haden could have been a Pro Bowler last year if he started more games i think he will be next year...
The thing is the Browns have to start winning more games to get some of there guys names out there more when pro bowl balloting starts,because alot of people when they vote just look at the Names and say o yeah Ed Reed he deserves to be in the Pro Bowl when in Reality hes been hurt 8 games of the Season
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Yeah i feel the same as far as Reed and Polamalu are concernied, Reed is on his way to retirement and Polamalu was a weak link for the Steelers Defense in the SB...
Ward is an up and coming play maker who if he can work a lil bit on his cover skills i feel will be a Pro Bowler..
And Haden could have been a Pro Bowler last year if he started more games i think he will be next year...
The thing is the Browns have to start winning more games to get some of there guys names out there more when pro bowl balloting starts,because alot of people when they vote just look at the Names and say o yeah Ed Reed he deserves to be in the Pro Bowl when in Reality hes been hurt 8 games of the Season
Yeah i feel the same as far as Reed and Polamalu are concernied, Reed is on his way to retirement and Polamalu was a weak link for the Steelers Defense in the SB...
Ward is an up and coming play maker who if he can work a lil bit on his cover skills i feel will be a Pro Bowler..
And Haden could have been a Pro Bowler last year if he started more games i think he will be next year...
The thing is the Browns have to start winning more games to get some of there guys names out there more when pro bowl balloting starts,because alot of people when they vote just look at the Names and say o yeah Ed Reed he deserves to be in the Pro Bowl when in Reality hes been hurt 8 games of the Season
Hearin lies proof again Homotard just says things just to say them to ire other posters...his game is old and tired and people just dont buy his ilk. How does someone who is a stooler fan say "Oh Ive watched the browns alot over the years"..Are you a closet Browns fan LOL?... I mean Ward hasnt been here for years (DUH)...It was his rookie season last year and a damn fine one for an up and commer. Hes shown a knack for getting to the ball. I think he will improve his coverage skills. He's a pretty smart kid. I think what him and Haden did last season was very promising. I dont get these Retards that just throw out blanket statements without any basis of facts or stats to support them. I dont claim to know it all, But I dont sit there saying guys like Ben or Polamalu suck and are not going to the pro bowl. For some someone how sits there and plays with his tabs all day then thinks hes some kind of genius "Ohhhh wowww whoppee I can use tabs" he brags about it like a 10 year old. For someone who talks alot it amounts to 0 and its a whole lot of caca.
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@king-ghoolie-lives said:
Enthusiasm of being Browns fans aside, there is no hard evidence to suggest that the Browns 2011 season is going to be any more successful than the 2010.
Completely true, but there is no hard evidence to suggest that they won't be more successful.
In addition there is absolutely no hard evidence that the Browns are "finally" building the foundation with which future winners will be born from.
Possibly true...IF you believe that Haden, Ward, McCoy etc. from last year's draft are going to all be busts. I say that there is evidence that they are building a winning foundation, but it is only evidence. It is not proof beyond a reasonable doubt. You apparently want to jump right to the verdict stage...and I say the Browns are just past their opening statement.
You "building the foundation" guys have to be honest with yourselves. It wasn't that long ago when you were trashing ANY of us who dared suggested that Phil Sewage was a complete phony. I am not going to do it, but you go back and look at the posts you guys were putting up back then.
It was the SAME EXACT gobblydygook you are espousing now. Essentially you suggest that we have acquired a lot of young, high potential, high-quality draft picks, and that these guys are really going to be the juice.
So, what you are saying Ghoolie is that we all have to be like you? We all have to be "glass half empty" sorts? Always expect negative results? I understand how a Browns fan can be that way, given the history of the last 20 years. But I prefer to not exercise corporal mortification forever and ever where the Browns are concerned. At some point our penance has to have been served.
Forgive me, but you guys post this same shit over, and over and over. Look, All OTHER 31 teams has the SAME EXACT UPSIDE that we do. They too, have drafted young talent that they too, hope will build their future.
Given the speculative nature of the draft, it is COPLETELY FOOLISH to think that our draft additions alone are going ot catapult us past the Ravens, Steelers and Bengals, let alone the other NFL teams.
I am not sure that anyone is saying that the Browns draft picks alone are going to catapult us past those other teams. But you have to at some point acquire the materials to build that catapult. Maybe the Browns will build a trebuchet instead. Look at how the Ravens and Steelers built themselves. Primarily through the draft I would surmise. There is nothing wrong in expecting that the Browns should make similar quality draft selections as those teams have over the years. (It hasn't happened, but, nevertheless it should be expected)
Here is the problem I have. The Browns organization doesn't have a football culture. The Steelers do, but the Browns don't. As an example, Cowher left, but the Steelers remained basically the same, exact kind of team. However they do it they draft bastards who deliver on game day.
The Browns do not have that track record and they don't as of right now, have a defined culture that we can point out as the fuel that feeds the fire. We don't have a track record of drafting amazing players, so, all you "foundations" guys really have to promote here is your love for the Browns and your optimism that,
Well, correct me if I am wrong, but wasn't bringing in Holmgren and Heckert...proven football men, meant to infuse this franchise with that "football culture", whatever that means? I mean, those guys DO have a track record of some success, though it is not with the Browns. Holmgren has a track record as a coach and GM that took two teams to SBs. Heckert has a track record that took a team to a SB and to several NFC title games with the players he drafted. Yes, I think they have to reprove themselves here, but that football culture certainly seems plausible with them here.
"If this guys pans out, if this guy is what we think he is, if, if , if................."
Whether you love the Browns or not, you have to use common sense. We don't match up very well man-to man with the better teams in the NFL. We don't have a lot of positions where we can state with any certainty that we are solid and can match the opposition's guy very well.
I think we are improving somewhat in that area. I honestly believe that the Browns OL is the best in the AFCN. And I don't think Hillis takes a back seat to any RB in the Division.
I like Hillis, but surely you guys know football well enough to know that the odds favor him having a very different, less successful season. Just as opposing defenses shut down Reuben Droughns his second year with us, so too will the weaponless Browns offense allow opposing defenses to jam the middle and shut him down.
So? You too are joining the naysayers that think Hillis can't repeat his performance from last year? What? Because he is white? Because he is big and strong and not diminutive a elusive? Hillis has proven that he is nimble enough. And plenty of big strong RBs have proven they can last a while and maintain their productivity. Jim Brown, Earl Campbell, Jerome Bettis, Mike Alstott (if you need a white guy).
Plus, hopefully, the Browns will have Montario Hardesty to come in and spell Hillis some.
The Browns remain limp, very limp at the positions who routinely touch the ball.
I think that is only true at WR. Not at TE, RB and QB. No one would ever call Hillis limp. I don't think McCoy is limp...in the sense that he is weak willed. He is not 6'6". He is inexperienced. He may have injury issues, but that is not limp. Our TEs were very productive. (yes, they needed to be given the lack of production by the WRs.)
With so many ifs and no real veteran guaranteed bastard-tough players, the Browns are likely going to struggle.
I think Colt will face a lot more pressure, I think Hillis will be shut down and our O will make a lot of stupid mistakes and be back to 2 yard dinks on 3d and 9. I think our defense will be on the field too much
I think the Browns win 4 maybe 5 games in 2011, but that's it.
NOw, if we ad a mid career DE, WR, RB and DB? Maybe a different story. This draft won't amount to a hill of beans as far as improving the team.
I think with a RB, Hillis now going into his 4th year, you would have to call him "mid career". Some of our DBs are "mid-career" Brown, Elam, Wright. I would rather have a young, good DB, like Ward and Haden, than a "mid-career below average DB like those 3.
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