Is Hillis Going Walk?
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Would you guys run when your down 20+ points half way through the 3rd quarter? I agree that Hillis should have been given more of Hardesty's reps, but why are you bitching about the amount of pass plays when we had to play catch up for half of the game. That is what happens when you are down that far, you pass it.
Hillis-iz-Boss said:
Would you guys run when your down 20+ points half way through the 3rd quarter? I agree that Hillis should have been given more of Hardesty's reps, but why are you bitching about the amount of pass plays when we had to play catch up for half of the game. That is what happens when you are down that far, you pass it.
They were down 15 at the half. Indy, the year they won the Super Bowl and beat New England to go to the Super Bowl they were down 35-3 at the half. They came out ran the ball and Peyton Manning did his thing too. One of the keys to winning that game was Dominic Rhodes and Joseph Addai. So when you're down double digits it is wise to stick to the run. You'd be amazed what results you get.
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It is possible that Payton Hillis is the Michael Jordan of Football. Remember what they said about Jordan? That the one guy that could keep Jordan from scoring 20 points in any given game was Dean Smith.
Well, the one guy that seems to be able to keep Hillis from what it is that Hillis does is Pat Shurmur.
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Let's not lie. We, most if us anyway, would love to see a white running back succeed. You know what's good? Laying racial stereotypes to rest.
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Well, not to be disrespectful, but I think your evaluation of Hillis' talent is like I pointed out in my post, based somewhat on emotion. He's just not that good of a back.
And, of course, Ghoolie, we know that none of your opinions are ever based on any sort of emotions, right?
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@king-ghoolie-lives said:
Well, not to be disrespectful, but I think your evaluation of Hillis' talent is like I pointed out in my post, based somewhat on emotion. He's just not that good of a back.
His decent year ( not stellar, but decent) was based on opposing defenses getting caught by surprise. In 2009 the Browns had no running game. So, in 2010 Hillis got to run through a lot of holes that he just isn't finding in 2011 now that teams know they have to account for him.
Jog your memory for a minute and think back to Reuben Droughns. Rich and I got blasted for suggesting that he would be a one-hit-wonder and after one year, defenses would account for him. Well, sure enough, as good as he was in year one, the next year he got stuffed. Posters blamed the OL and play calling but it was none of that. A straight ahead runner is easy to stop if that is all the offense has, and this is the case with the Browns.
I didn't bring Hardesty into this conversation and will only comment that if I was in charge, Hardesty would get most of the carries and Hillis would be used sparingly in short yardage, redzone and other specialty applications.
Hardesty's talent involves cutting back, finding his own holes and having some real speed. These skills are not offered by Hillis, AND are desperately needed to add some confulsion to opposing defenses. Hardesty can get up filed and he can cut back to daylight. Hillis will always be found close to the middle of the field. He makes us too predictable and it seems management gets it.
Regarding his playing injured last year. WHo in the NFL doesn't play injured?
This belief that once he gets healthy all of a sudden he will be even more effective is not based in reality. Regarding injuries, he is just as likely to get injured again as he is to get healthy.
And THIS too must be considered. Ram rads don't last that long in the NFL, 5 maybe 6 years.
On many levles Hillis throws up red flags for our future. If he can accept a lesser, supporting, specialty role? Then we should keep him. On the other hand if he wants AP type money, then we need to seek a trade or simply let him go. His talent level just isn't that hard to find in the NFL.
We have to stop being emotional about this guy.
Emotional attachment is one thing, but fear of the unknown is more accurate...at least in my case. If you take Hillis out of the equation, I see an unproven back, with a history of injuries, who may have all the talent in the world, but is still a question mark. Beyond that, who do we have that can step in and be as productive as Hillis? Who can we pick up in free agency? I would bet there would be a line of teams forming to grab Hillis if we let him go. When you mention straight ahead runners, how about Jim Brown, Kevin Mack, Larry Csonka, Earl Campbell, etc.? It wouldn't be the worst idea to feature 2 running backs with different styles. It's been done with much success before....Kevin Mack / Ernest Byner....Mercury Morris / Larry Csonka and countless others. While I wouldn't pay him Adrian Peterson money, I think he deserves Cedric Benson money.
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Gholie your an idiot last game hillis had a 4.6 yard average on 10 carries as oppossed to Hardestry had a 3.5 on 7 carries with i couldnt even count how many drops..Hillis is a great back whether you want to believe it or not...Its only a matter of how many carries he will get due to are coaches,he only gets better the more times you feed him the rock...O yeah you know whos really glad Shurmur is gone is Steven Jackson ask how much he misses his sorry ass over there not giving a stud like him the ball.Shurmur keeps this shit up Hillis will walk away to the Bengals or some shit and destroy us twice a year.
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What kind of money does a RB with fumbling problems and a pedestrian YPC go for these days anyway? You can't really blame Hillis and his agent for trying to strike while they have the shirt pulled over enough people's heads. As far as the team goes, I think it would be terrible to pay him a lot of money but financially it may make sense for merchandise sales to all of the yokels buying Hillis gear.
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Gholie your an idiot last game hillis had a 4.6 yard average on 10 carries as oppossed to Hardestry had a 3.5 on 7 carries with i couldnt even count how many drops..Hillis is a great back whether you want to believe it or not...Its only a matter of how many carries he will get due to are coaches,he only gets better the more times you feed him the rock...O yeah you know whos really glad Shurmur is gone is Steven Jackson ask how much he misses his sorry ass over there not giving a stud like him the ball.Shurmur keeps this shit up Hillis will walk away to the Bengals or some shit and destroy us twice a year.
Gholie your an idiot last game hillis had a 4.6 yard average on 10 carries as oppossed to Hardestry had a 3.5 on 7 carries with i couldnt even count how many drops..Hillis is a great back whether you want to believe it or not...Its only a matter of how many carries he will get due to are coaches,he only gets better the more times you feed him the rock...O yeah you know whos really glad Shurmur is gone is Steven Jackson ask how much he misses his sorry ass over there not giving a stud like him the ball.Shurmur keeps this shit up Hillis will walk away to the Bengals or some shit and destroy us twice a year.
You do know that Jackson got 350 carries each of shurmers 2 seasons in st louis right?
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I have been saying what Goolie has been saying forever!!!! I like Hillis as much as anybody, but out front office WILL not pay him the money he wants. He does not fit what we are trying to do. He is a good back, but a great short yardage/red zone back.
Hardesty, he has the cut back move that every grerat back has..He has speed, strenth, vision..It has to stay healthy. Now I am not say Hardesty is the next AP, but he has more of a chance than Hillis...
Said it forever they should get 60/40 60 Hillis/40 Hardetsy
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Is Hilis going Walk?
Re......Spect......Walk.........run your mouth when I'm not around, its easy to achieve. You cry to weak friends that sympathize. Can you hear, the violins playing your song??? Those same friends tell me your every word!!!!!!
Is there a country version of that, with fiddlers and yodelers. If so I could see Hillis going walk. Maybe he could fill in for Dime-bag though.
I assume he's more along the lines Between Jennings and Jones, more country outlaw. I'd like to see him go Walk though.
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Amazing to me people would rather have Hardesty over Hillis,thats cool but if he does leave and Hardesty blows or gets injured or we have to use yet another pick to get a back with him..Then its a wasted pick also let Hillis go to the Bengals or Steelers and see how much we miss him when hes killing us twice a year...
Not saying he deserves top of the market RB money but just a month ago every one was praising him,hes still the best back we have...After the responses of most browns fans that i have read i wouldnt blame him if he did walk do your thing Hillis...
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This is not an issue. Check the tweets by Peyton retweeted by mary Kay
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Amazing to me people would rather have Hardesty over Hillis,thats cool but if he does leave and Hardesty blows or gets injured or we have to use yet another pick to get a back with him..Then its a wasted pick also let Hillis go to the Bengals or Steelers and see how much we miss him when hes killing us twice a year...
Not saying he deserves top of the market RB money but just a month ago every one was praising him,hes still the best back we have...After the responses of most browns fans that i have read i wouldnt blame him if he did walk do your thing Hillis...
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A. I see where Ghoolie is going with the Droughns/Hillis comparison ... but I think Hillis is a much better talent because he can catch the ball out of the backfield very well for a back and he is even a better runner then Droughns. I do agree that backs of Hillis style DO NOT last long in this league 5-6 years like Ghoolie stated may even be a stretch, however Hillis I think will have a 5-6 year career ... but thats only because Denver barely used him years 1 & 2 and he is in year 4 already. I think he has atleast one more year after this year and probably even 2 more years.
B. Someone used Kevin Mack in the same breath as Jim Brown, Earl Campbell and Larry Czonka ... while maybe Mack was the same style of a runner (straight ahead) he is nowhere near that caliber ... and in my opinion Hillis is ever better then Mack. Mack was decent nothing more nothing less. He was nothing special. (And I am a Kevin Mack fan)
C. I am all for signing Hillis up ... as long as all the garunteed money is in years 1&2 and not further down the road. He also needs to get a deal along the lines of a CedBen at best. Benson has had more productive years then Hillis ... so paying him more would certainly be a stretch ...even paying him as much may be a stretch.
D. I hope the media is blowing this out of proportion and this isn't much of an issue. I hope Hillis either shuts up and plays or the front office steps up and offers him a fair contract. Hillis being a bitch does nothing for anybody involved.
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This nonsense is confusing me.
What do people expect from Hillis in a season when a top OL is out the entire year - Steinbach? Also, why does the FO continue to avoid replacing him with a solid player that's looking for a job - such as Jags OL Vince Manuwai - just to play one of their precious draft pick scrubs? Yeah, yeah, we get it - you drafted Shaun Lauvao, congratulations. Now stop with the self-love and put in a guy who can get the job done.
And why is Hillis on his third agent in four months? Bizarre fail. Does Walrus really think Hillis is done as a player? That doesn't make any sense either.
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@king-ghoolie-lives said:
Gip, I wasn't condemning his fans. As my post pointed out, I too understand getting behind a guy when we have had such a drought at his position.
Still, HIllis is not now, nor is he ever going to be equal to Bettis or Earl Campbell.
We have a weak schedule and still, he will not have a great year.
We arn't going to see eye to eye on this guy, so lets watch him fizzle and talk in December.
You can't compare Hillis to a Jerome Bettis. Look at the OL Bettis had to run behind: ALL-PRO. If you insert Hillis in with Pitt's O-Line at that time, he gets it done just as well as Bettis. They are the SAME kind of RB. Unless you think the RB makes the OL, which it doesn't, rather it's the opposite, plain and simple.
And we have a weak schedule and yet you forecasting our downfall? Yes, let's wait 'till December, shall we?
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Quite a few people talk about our weak schedule. Although it has already been pointed out,
I think it bears repeating that probably every remaining team on our schedule looks at
the Browns as a probable win.
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A. I see where Ghoolie is going with the Droughns/Hillis comparison ... but I think Hillis is a much better talent because he can catch the ball out of the backfield very well for a back and he is even a better runner then Droughns. I do agree that backs of Hillis style DO NOT last long in this league 5-6 years like Ghoolie stated may even be a stretch, however Hillis I think will have a 5-6 year career ... but thats only because Denver barely used him years 1 & 2 and he is in year 4 already. I think he has atleast one more year after this year and probably even 2 more years.
B. Someone used Kevin Mack in the same breath as Jim Brown, Earl Campbell and Larry Czonka ... while maybe Mack was the same style of a runner (straight ahead) he is nowhere near that caliber ... and in my opinion Hillis is ever better then Mack. Mack was decent nothing more nothing less. He was nothing special. (And I am a Kevin Mack fan)
C. I am all for signing Hillis up ... as long as all the garunteed money is in years 1&2 and not further down the road. He also needs to get a deal along the lines of a CedBen at best. Benson has had more productive years then Hillis ... so paying him more would certainly be a stretch ...even paying him as much may be a stretch.
D. I hope the media is blowing this out of proportion and this isn't much of an issue. I hope Hillis either shuts up and plays or the front office steps up and offers him a fair contract. Hillis being a bitch does nothing for anybody involved.
A. I see where Ghoolie is going with the Droughns/Hillis comparison ... but I think Hillis is a much better talent because he can catch the ball out of the backfield very well for a back and he is even a better runner then Droughns. I do agree that backs of Hillis style DO NOT last long in this league 5-6 years like Ghoolie stated may even be a stretch, however Hillis I think will have a 5-6 year career ... but thats only because Denver barely used him years 1 & 2 and he is in year 4 already. I think he has atleast one more year after this year and probably even 2 more years.
B. Someone used Kevin Mack in the same breath as Jim Brown, Earl Campbell and Larry Czonka ... while maybe Mack was the same style of a runner (straight ahead) he is nowhere near that caliber ... and in my opinion Hillis is ever better then Mack. Mack was decent nothing more nothing less. He was nothing special. (And I am a Kevin Mack fan)
Those players were mentioned in the same sentence as similar style runners....not as the same talent, so don't get all excited. Mack was a 1000 yard runner and ran through defenders....excellent running back.
C. I am all for signing Hillis up ... as long as all the garunteed money is in years 1&2 and not further down the road. He also needs to get a deal along the lines of a CedBen at best. Benson has had more productive years then Hillis ... so paying him more would certainly be a stretch ...even paying him as much may be a stretch. So.....no problem paying Benson, even though his production is going down hill, but Hillis, who is only 25 years old, and still improving should not get paid?
D. I hope the media is blowing this out of proportion and this isn't much of an issue. I hope Hillis either shuts up and plays or the front office steps up and offers him a fair contract. Hillis being a bitch does nothing for anybody involved. What has Hillis said that bothers you?.....all I've ever heard him say, is that he wants to stay here, loves the team, loves the fans, loves the City.
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Nw220- I dont think antbody want Hardesty to replace Hillis, I think most people relize Hillis is not worth huge money, everybody would love Hillis to stay, but at the right price. I think most people would like Hillis and Hardesty to split carries. Most teams havea two back system now anyways.
I think its real simple, split carries than go with the back who has the hot hand...
example if we were playin the Eagles, I think Hillis would get most of carries. there front four is small and week, but they are fast on the outside same for the steelers. I think Hardesty could most of the carries against say Oakland decent front 4, but not that great on the outside/linebackers. Hardesty against Oakland could get that one cutback and be gone!!!
Should we give Hillis a raise yes we should...2-3 mill a yr at the most
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Hillis is a bruiser as well as an extremely athletic running back. He his quick (not blazing fast), agile, and can run hard. He also has great hands and a strong drive.
Not saying he's Adrian Peterson but the guy deserves more than the 4th year minimum. We should keep him until we have someone better. Which I believe, we do not have anyone better than him right now.
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