Our 80 Million Dollar Oline
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Nope Rich- it depends on Colt recognizing Joe Thomas can't block three guys at once. That was absolutely horrible calling out blocking assignments- whoever was doing it.
And it's not an $80 million o-line either. The Ravens have Mckinnie and Gurode, and your pals the Squealers drafted Pouncey in the first round in case you forgot.
And in case you also forgot Rich- WE WON. Go post on Cleveland.com if you want to bitch after a win. Defense CAN win championships.
Nope Larry, Colt is not the problem, maybe part of it but he has no tools, the lack of playmakers is the problem and tho OLINE failed because we have no playmakers. The Ravens I believe got McKinnie after he was released by Minnesota which further ascertains OL guys are dime a dozen.. The Saints started three free agent OL guys in the their Super Bowl year, but you can ignore that as well.
Bottom is still the same no playmakers NO PLAYOFFS
and yes indeed we won today.....................as pathetic as it was against a dysfunctional team with a back up QB and no RBs or WRs..................
by 6-3 oh my
BTW, Larry I get it always have, maybe someday you and Brownstown will....................Offense wins championships NOT defense and the least important and easiest thing to fix is the OL..................Just ask Belichick ................BTW three Super Bowl winners had players starting on the Oline we released including two left tackles and center.................the two most important positions on the OL
But you can be belligerant and keep supporting a losing concept
Nope Larry, Colt is not the problem, maybe part of it but he has no tools, the lack of playmakers is the problem and tho OLINE failed because we have no playmakers. The Ravens I believe got McKinnie after he was released by Minnesota which further ascertains OL guys are dime a dozen.. The Saints started three free agent OL guys in the their Super Bowl year, but you can ignore that as well.
Bottom is still the same no playmakers NO PLAYOFFS
and yes indeed we won today.....................as pathetic as it was against a dysfunctional team with a back up QB and no RBs or WRs..................
by 6-3 oh my
BTW, Larry I get it always have, maybe someday you and Brownstown will....................Offense wins championships NOT defense and the least important and easiest thing to fix is the OL..................Just ask Belichick ................BTW three Super Bowl winners had players starting on the Oline we released including two left tackles and center.................the two most important positions on the OL
But you can be belligerant and keep supporting a losing concept
Gee, the Red sounds just like Ghoolie and your estimation of the Browns- so shut up. A win is a win. Since you're in a firing mode, fire the special teams coach NOW He sucks. Except for a phantom block in the back, the Browns give up yet another special teams TD, and get two Dawson FGs blocked. Most definitely unspecial.
Rich, I have never said we don't need playmakers- but the best playmakers in the NFL would be useless on an offensive line that can't block for more than 2 seconds, or open 1\2 decent holes for a running back. Hardesty made most of that yardage on his own.
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Nope Larry, Colt is not the problem, maybe part of it but he has no tools, the lack of playmakers is the problem and tho OLINE failed because we have no playmakers. The Ravens I believe got McKinnie after he was released by Minnesota which further ascertains OL guys are dime a dozen.. The Saints started three free agent OL guys in the their Super Bowl year, but you can ignore that as well.
Bottom is still the same no playmakers NO PLAYOFFS
and yes indeed we won today.....................as pathetic as it was against a dysfunctional team with a back up QB and no RBs or WRs..................
by 6-3 oh my
BTW, Larry I get it always have, maybe someday you and Brownstown will....................Offense wins championships NOT defense and the least important and easiest thing to fix is the OL..................Just ask Belichick ................BTW three Super Bowl winners had players starting on the Oline we released including two left tackles and center.................the two most important positions on the OL
But you can be belligerant and keep supporting a losing concept
Gee, the Red sounds just like Ghoolie and your estimation of the Browns- so shut up. A win is a win. Since you're in a firing mode, fire the special teams coach NOW He sucks. Except for a phantom block in the back, the Browns give up yet another special teams TD, and get two Dawson FGs blocked. Most definitely unspecial.
Rich, I have never said we don't need playmakers- but the best playmakers in the NFL would be useless on an offensive line that can't block for more than 2 seconds, or open 1\2 decent holes for a running back. Hardesty made most of that yardage on his own.
Gee, the Red sounds just like Ghoolie and your estimation of the Browns- so shut up. A win is a win. Since you're in a firing mode, fire the special teams coach NOW He sucks. Except for a phantom block in the back, the Browns give up yet another special teams TD, and get two Dawson FGs blocked. Most definitely unspecial.
Rich, I have never said we don't need playmakers- but the best playmakers in the NFL would be useless on an offensive line that can't block for more than 2 seconds, or open 1\2 decent holes for a running back. Hardesty made most of that yardage on his own.
i agree.
listen i don't think anyone should get fired BUT if this is another evaluation year i think i've evaluated (and i'm NOT a football genius) that the special teams coach sucks. wouldn't it be a message to everybody else that they need to step up their game if fat ass holmgren actually put the boot to someone deserved?
back to rich's OP. let me ask you this rich: is the Dline important? do you need run stoppers and qb rushers? yes, correct?
who do you think on offense has to stop these guys, to block them, to stop the sack, the hurries the losses in the backfield.
exactly. yeah i know. it hurts sometimes to be wrong. of course we need playmakers and people who can stretch the field but can we get one area of the football team fixed and set then go from there.
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We don't have any playmakers and there is a ring of truth to that.I am not
sold at all on McCoy AND on our wide receivers. What ever happened to Carlton
Mitchell at WR? Before the season he was touted as a starter.Then he broke a
finger and has not been heard from. Supposedly, he is big AND fast. I saw
Robiske in there today falling down and getting no separation.I can't imagine
our O-line being worse with free agents although McCoy is not helping by not
recognizing where the blitz is coming from. Kosar would have eaten up the blitz
the way teams are tipping it.
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Nope Rich- it depends on Colt recognizing Joe Thomas can't block three guys at once. That was absolutely horrible calling out blocking assignments- whoever was doing it.
And it's not an $80 million o-line either. The Ravens have Mckinnie and Gurode, and your pals the Squealers drafted Pouncey in the first round in case you forgot.
And in case you also forgot Rich- WE WON. Go post on Cleveland.com if you want to bitch after a win. Defense CAN win championships.
Nope Larry, Colt is not the problem, maybe part of it but he has no tools, the lack of playmakers is the problem and tho OLINE failed because we have no playmakers. The Ravens I believe got McKinnie after he was released by Minnesota which further ascertains OL guys are dime a dozen.. The Saints started three free agent OL guys in the their Super Bowl year, but you can ignore that as well.
Bottom is still the same no playmakers NO PLAYOFFS
and yes indeed we won today.....................as pathetic as it was against a dysfunctional team with a back up QB and no RBs or WRs..................
by 6-3 oh my
BTW, Larry I get it always have, maybe someday you and Brownstown will....................Offense wins championships NOT defense and the least important and easiest thing to fix is the OL..................Just ask Belichick ................BTW three Super Bowl winners had players starting on the Oline we released including two left tackles and center.................the two most important positions on the OL
But you can be belligerant and keep supporting a losing concept
BTW, Larry I get it always have, maybe someday you and Brownstown will....................Offense wins championships NOT defense and the least important and easiest thing to fix is the OL..................Just ask Belichick ................BTW three Super Bowl winners had players starting on the Oline we released including two left tackles and center.................the two most important positions on the OL
But you can be belligerant and keep supporting a losing concept
Sure Rich by your logic, every GM in the NFL is stupid, and you aren't. Therefore.... offensive dime a dozen linemen should NEVER get drafted in the first two rounds, yet they do EVERY YEAR. And why is that Rich? Because just like quarterbacks, running backs, and wide receivers- the really good ones are NOT dime a dozen.
And the highly drafted ones can flop as badly as anyone at the skill positions. Tony Mandarich was a big a bust as Ryan Leaf.
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BTW, Larry I get it always have, maybe someday you and Brownstown will....................Offense wins championships NOT defense and the least important and easiest thing to fix is the OL..................Just ask Belichick ................BTW three Super Bowl winners had players starting on the Oline we released including two left tackles and center.................the two most important positions on the OL
But you can be belligerant and keep supporting a losing concept
Sure Rich by your logic, every GM in the NFL is stupid, and you aren't. Therefore.... offensive dime a dozen linemen should NEVER get drafted in the first two rounds, yet they do EVERY YEAR. And why is that Rich? Because just like quarterbacks, running backs, and wide receivers- the really good ones are NOT dime a dozen.
And the highly drafted ones can flop as badly as anyone at the skill positions. Tony Mandarich was a big a bust as Ryan Leaf.
Sure Rich by your logic, every GM in the NFL is stupid, and you aren't. Therefore.... offensive dime a dozen linemen should NEVER get drafted in the first two rounds, yet they do EVERY YEAR. And why is that Rich? Because just like quarterbacks, running backs, and wide receivers- the really good ones are NOT dime a dozen.
And the highly drafted ones can flop as badly as anyone at the skill positions. Tony Mandarich was a big a bust as Ryan Leaf.
You could go a little further and say why even waste a late rounder on them, just picke em up as an undrafted F.A.
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then you wouldn't get a joe thomas a jonathan ogden. game changers for 10 years on your team.
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then you wouldn't get a joe thomas a jonathan ogden. game changers for 10 years on your team.
then you wouldn't get a joe thomas a jonathan ogden. game changers for 10 years on your team.
What? You don't get their argument? Those dime a dozen fatasses have ZERO impact on your game? If you want to buy their BS, Aaron Rodgers would make any o line look like world beaters. So did super studs Fitzgerald and Kolb beat the Steelers? Gee, I guess not. & never mind the fact Lawrence Taylor and the Giants defense made Joe Montana look like crap in a playoff game when his dime a dozen offensive line couldn't protect him.
Yup, Packers (Sherrod, first round), Patriots (Light, second round), 49ers (Staley, first round), Ravens (McKinney, first round- dumped in a salary move by the Vikes) are all dupas that have the best records in the league and picked their left tackles high, but Rich and Ghoolie think you can routinely win a SB with undrafted free agents manning the o-line. That happens about as often as the Saints picking up a stud wr (Colston) in the seventh round.
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@king-ghoolie-lives said:
Offensive linemen are a dime-a-dozen.
The Colts have teh same team they had last playoff season........ the difference? QB.
The Browns won't win another game this season.
Give me a number on a bet that says you're wrong. And for the record, I've never lost an Internet bet.
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@king-ghoolie-lives said:
Larry,
the research will show you not only CAN you win SBs with walk ons and mostly late round draft picks, BUT, most of the SB teams have won with those kinds of offensive lines.
I've just shown you proof the top 4 teams in the NFL right now have high draft picks playing left tackle- are you in denial, or what? Sure, flukes happen, and you can win with bozos on your o line, not all the time though.
Damn, you should look up some Titan history, since you live in Memphis. When the Titties made their Super Bowl run, the whole damn o line was first round picks, starting with Munchak and Matthews.
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aren't like all you guys friends? i mean i see a lot of the tenn connection and the nc and fla connection with forum members. must be interesting at the tailgates.
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Mostly just through here.
While I live in Tn, I have never met Ghoolie, and have met Rich once, but mostly through the boards and playing fantasy sports together.
Tailgates are interesting...in the end it's all good. We don't stand around pointing fingers at people calling them idiots if that's what you mean. We shake hands, slap backs, and share a few hours together having a good time.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. -
BTW, Larry I get it always have, maybe someday you and Brownstown will....................Offense wins championships NOT defense and the least important and easiest thing to fix is the OL..................Just ask Belichick ................BTW three Super Bowl winners had players starting on the Oline we released including two left tackles and center.................the two most important positions on the OL
But you can be belligerant and keep supporting a losing concept
Sure Rich by your logic, every GM in the NFL is stupid, and you aren't. Therefore.... offensive dime a dozen linemen should NEVER get drafted in the first two rounds, yet they do EVERY YEAR. And why is that Rich? Because just like quarterbacks, running backs, and wide receivers- the really good ones are NOT dime a dozen.
And the highly drafted ones can flop as badly as anyone at the skill positions. Tony Mandarich was a big a bust as Ryan Leaf.
Sure Rich by your logic, every GM in the NFL is stupid, and you aren't. Therefore.... offensive dime a dozen linemen should NEVER get drafted in the first two rounds, yet they do EVERY YEAR. And why is that Rich? Because just like quarterbacks, running backs, and wide receivers- the really good ones are NOT dime a dozen.
And the highly drafted ones can flop as badly as anyone at the skill positions. Tony Mandarich was a big a bust as Ryan Leaf.
Larry, you keep missing it.. Every GM is not stupid, the smart GM's like me understand how to win. You get a franchise QB and franchise set of skill players who score points and then disruptive players on defense and when that is all done you get OL guys, When you are really good at filling those needs and building a championship franchise you at times have the luxury of expending top pics on OL guys occasionally. That is the MO of the Steelers, Patriots, Colts, NO and Packers and every other long standing championship caliber team. So please do not lump every GM in the league into the dumb by saying they all start a team by building an OL.... The winners and smart GMS do just the opposite build the OL after you have the folks that make points..
We on the other hand have been passing on potential game breakers like Adrian Peterson for years to get OL guys with first round picks and then scoring 6 points a game and missing the playoffs each and every year. Go through the 12 year recent history of the Browns and you will see we wasted a lot of picks on OL guys. We drafted O'Hara cut him to draft Faine with a one pick and then cut Faine and drafted Mack with a one pick. Faine and O"hara both made it to the Super Bowl after we drafted them and we make it to the toilet bowl with three high first round OL guys.
One can lead the horse to water but not make him drink it...................and you cannot turn a plow horse into a race horse...................and that is exactly what the OL is the plow horses of football.................a dime a dozen
Offense Wins.......Franchise QB's are the key.............Defense keeps you in the game.........Go Buckeyes -
I would like to know where you come up with "$80 million" offensive line number? Or did you just make that up?
Though it is probably an irrelevent question it is a fair question to ask however: what are the guaranteed contract salaries for each position on the team. Is there even a place to find out that info....or is it confidential.
Assuming you do find those numbers, then you will need to ask yourself if the Browns are getting value for their money based on those player's performance.
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Here is what I found:
The first number is their salary, the second their cap number (I assume this represents some portion of a signing bonus) Also, certainly it is not totally up to date. A few players are no longer here, other players have been signed. So, who is good value and who isn't?:
Joe Thomas T $8,000,000 $13,060,000
Eric Steinbach G $6,250,000 $7,678,571
D'Qwell Jackson LB $4,750,000 $4,750,000
Phil Dawson K $3,250,000 $3,250,000
Sheldon Brown CB $3,100,000 $4,766,667
Joe Haden CB $2,558,165 $11,058,165
Shaun Rogers DT $2,500,000 $4,000,000
Benjamin Watson TE $2,420,000 $4,536,666
Scott Fujita LB $2,400,000 $3,066,667
Tony Pashos T $2,200,000 $2,950,000
Brandon Jackson RB $1,750,000 $2,250,000
Chris Gocong LB $1,700,000 $1,700,000
John Greco T $1,200,000 $1,200,000
Artis Hicks G $1,150,000 $2,150,000
Mike Adams S $1,100,000 $1,600,000
Joshua Cribbs WR $957,000 $957,000
Ryan Pontbriand C $825,000 $1,100,000
Alex Mack C $774,000 $1,334,000
Raymond Ventrone S $700,000 $1,366,667
Alex Smith TE $640,000 $640,000
Reggie Hodges P $640,000 $640,000
Ahtyba Rubin DT $600,000 $623,100
Steve Vallos G $565,000 $565,000
Peyton Hillis RB $555,000 $567,450
Brian Robiskie WR $480,000 $1,011,250
Kaluka Maiava LB $480,000 $667,500
Mohamed Massaquoi WR $480,000 $485,750
Coye Francies CB $480,000 $480,000
Steve Octavien LB $480,000 $480,000
T.J. Ward S $405,000 $1,167,000
Montario Hardesty RB $405,000 $655,000
Colt McCoy QB $405,000 $592,750
Shawn Lauvao G $405,000 $579,250
Carlton Mitchell WR $405,000 $433,362
Jordan Norwood WR $405,000 $405,000
Brian Sanford DT $330,000 $330,000
Johnathan Haggerty WR $330,000 $330,000
Travis Ivey DT $330,000 $330,000
Ko Quaye DT $330,000 $330,000
Total $56,734,165 $84,086,815
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Larry, you keep missing it.. Every GM is not stupid, the smart GM's like me understand how to win. You get a franchise QB and franchise set of skill players who score points and then disruptive players on defense and when that is all done you get OL guys, When you are really good at filling those needs and building a championship franchise you at times have the luxury of expending top pics on OL guys occasionally. That is the MO of the Steelers
BS Rich. That was NEVER the MO of the Steelers. The QB was the LAST piece of the puzzle the Steelers added. They had their complete defense in place, their RBs, WRs, and most of their OL. They were able to have a 15-1 record with a rookie QB.
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1) It's not an 80M o-line.
2) Browns need talent across the board.
Lauvao is a 3rd rounder and he sucks. Pinkston is a 5th rounder and he sucks. FA are not the way to go - remember LeCharles Bentley?
Here's a shocking conclusion: The Browns need talent at many positions. I like our DL - and so do the results, the Browns have given up one rushing TD all year. Here's the reality: The top of last draft was focused on the DL, and they hit big-time on the players. Sheard and Taylor are future Pro Bowlers - unlike the stiffs who currently line up for the Steelers. [Read that sentence again, because I enjoyed typing it and you know it's true, Rich.]
So we need to focus the next draft on the OL. Christ, how is this difficult? It doesn't matter how/when/where you get good OL players, we need them. We could either mine the FA market and underbuy as the Ravens did with McKinnie -- or spend one of our 2 first rounders on a surefire OL stud next year. Either way, we need a RT badly. Hopefully we get Steinbach next year.
And I hope we get the WR from SC.
I wouldn't mind using the 2nd rounder on a new RG, also.. to use a "smart GM" phrase, build from the inside out.
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Free Agents can be the way to go. Using Bently as the example as why we shouldn't go after free agents isn't really a fair comparison because that could happen to any player at any time. The guy had been a beast and rarely injured before coming here. We do need a couple of new guys on the right side of the line.
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Larry, you keep missing it.. Every GM is not stupid, the smart GM's like me understand how to win. You get a franchise QB and franchise set of skill players who score points and then disruptive players on defense and when that is all done you get OL guys, When you are really good at filling those needs and building a championship franchise you at times have the luxury of expending top pics on OL guys occasionally. That is the MO of the Steelers
BS Rich. That was NEVER the MO of the Steelers. The QB was the LAST piece of the puzzle the Steelers added. They had their complete defense in place, their RBs, WRs, and most of their OL. They were able to have a 15-1 record with a rookie QB.
Larry, you keep missing it.. Every GM is not stupid, the smart GM's like me understand how to win. You get a franchise QB and franchise set of skill players who score points and then disruptive players on defense and when that is all done you get OL guys, When you are really good at filling those needs and building a championship franchise you at times have the luxury of expending top pics on OL guys occasionally. That is the MO of the Steelers
BS Rich. That was NEVER the MO of the Steelers. The QB was the LAST piece of the puzzle the Steelers added. They had their complete defense in place, their RBs, WRs, and most of their OL. They were able to have a 15-1 record with a rookie QB.
SMART GMs don't risk getting their meal ticket franchise quarterbacks pulverized behind suspect o-lines either. Go look up the qb sacks\ knockdowns stats- it's a fair indicator of a teams record. Rothlisberger may not last the year the way he's getting creamed, because outside of Pouncey, their o-line got neglected. BTW, if your premise were true Rich, those winning genius GM wouldn't be wasting high picks on offensive linemen regardless- they'd be praying they could get lucky like the Colts did when they landed Jeff Saturday as an UFA, and drafting even more skilled position players.
We ruined Couch getting him killed behind a suspect o-line. Ask Sam Bradford how he likes going out there and getting beat up every Sunday because his o-line sucks. And Rothlisberger was the LAST piece of the puzzle, as Gipper said. Unless Rich is referring to Bradshaw, who's lucky he didn't get paralyzed when Turkey Jones gave him a WWF piledriver into the turf. Green Bay had the luxury of sitting Rodgers behind Farve for years- that's a rarity in today's NFL. The Saints picked up Brees as the last piece of the puzzle too, IIRC. Troy Aikman had his career shortened by the concussions he took his first couple years in Dallas because his line couldn't protect him.
And the chain is as strong as it's weakest link. Teams aren't going to bother testing Joe Thomas or Alex Mack- why should they? Any defensive coordinator with half a brain is going to attack Pinkston, Lauvao, and Pashos. I rewatched the game, and I don't think I saw the Browns o-line give McCoy a classic Peyton Manning bulletproof pocket once.
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Sure Rich by your logic, every GM in the NFL is stupid, and you aren't. Therefore.... offensive dime a dozen linemen should NEVER get drafted in the first two rounds, yet they do EVERY YEAR. And why is that Rich? Because just like quarterbacks, running backs, and wide receivers- the really good ones are NOT dime a dozen.
And the highly drafted ones can flop as badly as anyone at the skill positions. Tony Mandarich was a big a bust as Ryan Leaf.
Larry, you keep missing it.. Every GM is not stupid, the smart GM's like me understand how to win. You get a franchise QB and franchise set of skill players who score points and then disruptive players on defense and when that is all done you get OL guys, When you are really good at filling those needs and building a championship franchise you at times have the luxury of expending top pics on OL guys occasionally. That is the MO of the Steelers, Patriots, Colts, NO and Packers and every other long standing championship caliber team. So please do not lump every GM in the league into the dumb by saying they all start a team by building an OL.... The winners and smart GMS do just the opposite build the OL after you have the folks that make points..
We on the other hand have been passing on potential game breakers like Adrian Peterson for years to get OL guys with first round picks and then scoring 6 points a game and missing the playoffs each and every year. Go through the 12 year recent history of the Browns and you will see we wasted a lot of picks on OL guys. We drafted O'Hara cut him to draft Faine with a one pick and then cut Faine and drafted Mack with a one pick. Faine and O"hara both made it to the Super Bowl after we drafted them and we make it to the toilet bowl with three high first round OL guys.
One can lead the horse to water but not make him drink it...................and you cannot turn a plow horse into a race horse...................and that is exactly what the OL is the plow horses of football.................a dime a dozen
Larry, you keep missing it.. Every GM is not stupid, the smart GM's like me understand how to win. You get a franchise QB and franchise set of skill players who score points and then disruptive players on defense and when that is all done you get OL guys, When you are really good at filling those needs and building a championship franchise you at times have the luxury of expending top pics on OL guys occasionally. That is the MO of the Steelers, Patriots, Colts, NO and Packers and every other long standing championship caliber team. So please do not lump every GM in the league into the dumb by saying they all start a team by building an OL.... The winners and smart GMS do just the opposite build the OL after you have the folks that make points..
We on the other hand have been passing on potential game breakers like Adrian Peterson for years to get OL guys with first round picks and then scoring 6 points a game and missing the playoffs each and every year. Go through the 12 year recent history of the Browns and you will see we wasted a lot of picks on OL guys. We drafted O'Hara cut him to draft Faine with a one pick and then cut Faine and drafted Mack with a one pick. Faine and O"hara both made it to the Super Bowl after we drafted them and we make it to the toilet bowl with three high first round OL guys.
One can lead the horse to water but not make him drink it...................and you cannot turn a plow horse into a race horse...................and that is exactly what the OL is the plow horses of football.................a dime a dozen
Ya, that was the Browns plan when they first got back in '99... how'd that work out??? These 2 are idiots
Oh and I didn't know we had an NFL GM who had the time to post on our message board here... wow that's something special. Thank you for your knowledge and wisdom... dumba$$
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