Our 80 Million Dollar Oline
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then you wouldn't get a joe thomas a jonathan ogden. game changers for 10 years on your team.
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then you wouldn't get a joe thomas a jonathan ogden. game changers for 10 years on your team.
then you wouldn't get a joe thomas a jonathan ogden. game changers for 10 years on your team.
What? You don't get their argument? Those dime a dozen fatasses have ZERO impact on your game? If you want to buy their BS, Aaron Rodgers would make any o line look like world beaters. So did super studs Fitzgerald and Kolb beat the Steelers? Gee, I guess not. & never mind the fact Lawrence Taylor and the Giants defense made Joe Montana look like crap in a playoff game when his dime a dozen offensive line couldn't protect him.
Yup, Packers (Sherrod, first round), Patriots (Light, second round), 49ers (Staley, first round), Ravens (McKinney, first round- dumped in a salary move by the Vikes) are all dupas that have the best records in the league and picked their left tackles high, but Rich and Ghoolie think you can routinely win a SB with undrafted free agents manning the o-line. That happens about as often as the Saints picking up a stud wr (Colston) in the seventh round.
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@king-ghoolie-lives said:
Offensive linemen are a dime-a-dozen.
The Colts have teh same team they had last playoff season........ the difference? QB.
The Browns won't win another game this season.
Give me a number on a bet that says you're wrong. And for the record, I've never lost an Internet bet.
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@king-ghoolie-lives said:
Larry,
the research will show you not only CAN you win SBs with walk ons and mostly late round draft picks, BUT, most of the SB teams have won with those kinds of offensive lines.
I've just shown you proof the top 4 teams in the NFL right now have high draft picks playing left tackle- are you in denial, or what? Sure, flukes happen, and you can win with bozos on your o line, not all the time though.
Damn, you should look up some Titan history, since you live in Memphis. When the Titties made their Super Bowl run, the whole damn o line was first round picks, starting with Munchak and Matthews.
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aren't like all you guys friends? i mean i see a lot of the tenn connection and the nc and fla connection with forum members. must be interesting at the tailgates.
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Mostly just through here.
While I live in Tn, I have never met Ghoolie, and have met Rich once, but mostly through the boards and playing fantasy sports together.
Tailgates are interesting...in the end it's all good. We don't stand around pointing fingers at people calling them idiots if that's what you mean. We shake hands, slap backs, and share a few hours together having a good time.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. -
BTW, Larry I get it always have, maybe someday you and Brownstown will....................Offense wins championships NOT defense and the least important and easiest thing to fix is the OL..................Just ask Belichick ................BTW three Super Bowl winners had players starting on the Oline we released including two left tackles and center.................the two most important positions on the OL
But you can be belligerant and keep supporting a losing concept
Sure Rich by your logic, every GM in the NFL is stupid, and you aren't. Therefore.... offensive dime a dozen linemen should NEVER get drafted in the first two rounds, yet they do EVERY YEAR. And why is that Rich? Because just like quarterbacks, running backs, and wide receivers- the really good ones are NOT dime a dozen.
And the highly drafted ones can flop as badly as anyone at the skill positions. Tony Mandarich was a big a bust as Ryan Leaf.
Sure Rich by your logic, every GM in the NFL is stupid, and you aren't. Therefore.... offensive dime a dozen linemen should NEVER get drafted in the first two rounds, yet they do EVERY YEAR. And why is that Rich? Because just like quarterbacks, running backs, and wide receivers- the really good ones are NOT dime a dozen.
And the highly drafted ones can flop as badly as anyone at the skill positions. Tony Mandarich was a big a bust as Ryan Leaf.
Larry, you keep missing it.. Every GM is not stupid, the smart GM's like me understand how to win. You get a franchise QB and franchise set of skill players who score points and then disruptive players on defense and when that is all done you get OL guys, When you are really good at filling those needs and building a championship franchise you at times have the luxury of expending top pics on OL guys occasionally. That is the MO of the Steelers, Patriots, Colts, NO and Packers and every other long standing championship caliber team. So please do not lump every GM in the league into the dumb by saying they all start a team by building an OL.... The winners and smart GMS do just the opposite build the OL after you have the folks that make points..
We on the other hand have been passing on potential game breakers like Adrian Peterson for years to get OL guys with first round picks and then scoring 6 points a game and missing the playoffs each and every year. Go through the 12 year recent history of the Browns and you will see we wasted a lot of picks on OL guys. We drafted O'Hara cut him to draft Faine with a one pick and then cut Faine and drafted Mack with a one pick. Faine and O"hara both made it to the Super Bowl after we drafted them and we make it to the toilet bowl with three high first round OL guys.
One can lead the horse to water but not make him drink it...................and you cannot turn a plow horse into a race horse...................and that is exactly what the OL is the plow horses of football.................a dime a dozen
Offense Wins.......Franchise QB's are the key.............Defense keeps you in the game.........Go Buckeyes -
I would like to know where you come up with "$80 million" offensive line number? Or did you just make that up?
Though it is probably an irrelevent question it is a fair question to ask however: what are the guaranteed contract salaries for each position on the team. Is there even a place to find out that info....or is it confidential.
Assuming you do find those numbers, then you will need to ask yourself if the Browns are getting value for their money based on those player's performance.
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Here is what I found:
The first number is their salary, the second their cap number (I assume this represents some portion of a signing bonus) Also, certainly it is not totally up to date. A few players are no longer here, other players have been signed. So, who is good value and who isn't?:
Joe Thomas T $8,000,000 $13,060,000
Eric Steinbach G $6,250,000 $7,678,571
D'Qwell Jackson LB $4,750,000 $4,750,000
Phil Dawson K $3,250,000 $3,250,000
Sheldon Brown CB $3,100,000 $4,766,667
Joe Haden CB $2,558,165 $11,058,165
Shaun Rogers DT $2,500,000 $4,000,000
Benjamin Watson TE $2,420,000 $4,536,666
Scott Fujita LB $2,400,000 $3,066,667
Tony Pashos T $2,200,000 $2,950,000
Brandon Jackson RB $1,750,000 $2,250,000
Chris Gocong LB $1,700,000 $1,700,000
John Greco T $1,200,000 $1,200,000
Artis Hicks G $1,150,000 $2,150,000
Mike Adams S $1,100,000 $1,600,000
Joshua Cribbs WR $957,000 $957,000
Ryan Pontbriand C $825,000 $1,100,000
Alex Mack C $774,000 $1,334,000
Raymond Ventrone S $700,000 $1,366,667
Alex Smith TE $640,000 $640,000
Reggie Hodges P $640,000 $640,000
Ahtyba Rubin DT $600,000 $623,100
Steve Vallos G $565,000 $565,000
Peyton Hillis RB $555,000 $567,450
Brian Robiskie WR $480,000 $1,011,250
Kaluka Maiava LB $480,000 $667,500
Mohamed Massaquoi WR $480,000 $485,750
Coye Francies CB $480,000 $480,000
Steve Octavien LB $480,000 $480,000
T.J. Ward S $405,000 $1,167,000
Montario Hardesty RB $405,000 $655,000
Colt McCoy QB $405,000 $592,750
Shawn Lauvao G $405,000 $579,250
Carlton Mitchell WR $405,000 $433,362
Jordan Norwood WR $405,000 $405,000
Brian Sanford DT $330,000 $330,000
Johnathan Haggerty WR $330,000 $330,000
Travis Ivey DT $330,000 $330,000
Ko Quaye DT $330,000 $330,000
Total $56,734,165 $84,086,815
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Larry, you keep missing it.. Every GM is not stupid, the smart GM's like me understand how to win. You get a franchise QB and franchise set of skill players who score points and then disruptive players on defense and when that is all done you get OL guys, When you are really good at filling those needs and building a championship franchise you at times have the luxury of expending top pics on OL guys occasionally. That is the MO of the Steelers
BS Rich. That was NEVER the MO of the Steelers. The QB was the LAST piece of the puzzle the Steelers added. They had their complete defense in place, their RBs, WRs, and most of their OL. They were able to have a 15-1 record with a rookie QB.
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1) It's not an 80M o-line.
2) Browns need talent across the board.
Lauvao is a 3rd rounder and he sucks. Pinkston is a 5th rounder and he sucks. FA are not the way to go - remember LeCharles Bentley?
Here's a shocking conclusion: The Browns need talent at many positions. I like our DL - and so do the results, the Browns have given up one rushing TD all year. Here's the reality: The top of last draft was focused on the DL, and they hit big-time on the players. Sheard and Taylor are future Pro Bowlers - unlike the stiffs who currently line up for the Steelers. [Read that sentence again, because I enjoyed typing it and you know it's true, Rich.]
So we need to focus the next draft on the OL. Christ, how is this difficult? It doesn't matter how/when/where you get good OL players, we need them. We could either mine the FA market and underbuy as the Ravens did with McKinnie -- or spend one of our 2 first rounders on a surefire OL stud next year. Either way, we need a RT badly. Hopefully we get Steinbach next year.
And I hope we get the WR from SC.
I wouldn't mind using the 2nd rounder on a new RG, also.. to use a "smart GM" phrase, build from the inside out.
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Free Agents can be the way to go. Using Bently as the example as why we shouldn't go after free agents isn't really a fair comparison because that could happen to any player at any time. The guy had been a beast and rarely injured before coming here. We do need a couple of new guys on the right side of the line.
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Larry, you keep missing it.. Every GM is not stupid, the smart GM's like me understand how to win. You get a franchise QB and franchise set of skill players who score points and then disruptive players on defense and when that is all done you get OL guys, When you are really good at filling those needs and building a championship franchise you at times have the luxury of expending top pics on OL guys occasionally. That is the MO of the Steelers
BS Rich. That was NEVER the MO of the Steelers. The QB was the LAST piece of the puzzle the Steelers added. They had their complete defense in place, their RBs, WRs, and most of their OL. They were able to have a 15-1 record with a rookie QB.
Larry, you keep missing it.. Every GM is not stupid, the smart GM's like me understand how to win. You get a franchise QB and franchise set of skill players who score points and then disruptive players on defense and when that is all done you get OL guys, When you are really good at filling those needs and building a championship franchise you at times have the luxury of expending top pics on OL guys occasionally. That is the MO of the Steelers
BS Rich. That was NEVER the MO of the Steelers. The QB was the LAST piece of the puzzle the Steelers added. They had their complete defense in place, their RBs, WRs, and most of their OL. They were able to have a 15-1 record with a rookie QB.
SMART GMs don't risk getting their meal ticket franchise quarterbacks pulverized behind suspect o-lines either. Go look up the qb sacks\ knockdowns stats- it's a fair indicator of a teams record. Rothlisberger may not last the year the way he's getting creamed, because outside of Pouncey, their o-line got neglected. BTW, if your premise were true Rich, those winning genius GM wouldn't be wasting high picks on offensive linemen regardless- they'd be praying they could get lucky like the Colts did when they landed Jeff Saturday as an UFA, and drafting even more skilled position players.
We ruined Couch getting him killed behind a suspect o-line. Ask Sam Bradford how he likes going out there and getting beat up every Sunday because his o-line sucks. And Rothlisberger was the LAST piece of the puzzle, as Gipper said. Unless Rich is referring to Bradshaw, who's lucky he didn't get paralyzed when Turkey Jones gave him a WWF piledriver into the turf. Green Bay had the luxury of sitting Rodgers behind Farve for years- that's a rarity in today's NFL. The Saints picked up Brees as the last piece of the puzzle too, IIRC. Troy Aikman had his career shortened by the concussions he took his first couple years in Dallas because his line couldn't protect him.
And the chain is as strong as it's weakest link. Teams aren't going to bother testing Joe Thomas or Alex Mack- why should they? Any defensive coordinator with half a brain is going to attack Pinkston, Lauvao, and Pashos. I rewatched the game, and I don't think I saw the Browns o-line give McCoy a classic Peyton Manning bulletproof pocket once.
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Sure Rich by your logic, every GM in the NFL is stupid, and you aren't. Therefore.... offensive dime a dozen linemen should NEVER get drafted in the first two rounds, yet they do EVERY YEAR. And why is that Rich? Because just like quarterbacks, running backs, and wide receivers- the really good ones are NOT dime a dozen.
And the highly drafted ones can flop as badly as anyone at the skill positions. Tony Mandarich was a big a bust as Ryan Leaf.
Larry, you keep missing it.. Every GM is not stupid, the smart GM's like me understand how to win. You get a franchise QB and franchise set of skill players who score points and then disruptive players on defense and when that is all done you get OL guys, When you are really good at filling those needs and building a championship franchise you at times have the luxury of expending top pics on OL guys occasionally. That is the MO of the Steelers, Patriots, Colts, NO and Packers and every other long standing championship caliber team. So please do not lump every GM in the league into the dumb by saying they all start a team by building an OL.... The winners and smart GMS do just the opposite build the OL after you have the folks that make points..
We on the other hand have been passing on potential game breakers like Adrian Peterson for years to get OL guys with first round picks and then scoring 6 points a game and missing the playoffs each and every year. Go through the 12 year recent history of the Browns and you will see we wasted a lot of picks on OL guys. We drafted O'Hara cut him to draft Faine with a one pick and then cut Faine and drafted Mack with a one pick. Faine and O"hara both made it to the Super Bowl after we drafted them and we make it to the toilet bowl with three high first round OL guys.
One can lead the horse to water but not make him drink it...................and you cannot turn a plow horse into a race horse...................and that is exactly what the OL is the plow horses of football.................a dime a dozen
Larry, you keep missing it.. Every GM is not stupid, the smart GM's like me understand how to win. You get a franchise QB and franchise set of skill players who score points and then disruptive players on defense and when that is all done you get OL guys, When you are really good at filling those needs and building a championship franchise you at times have the luxury of expending top pics on OL guys occasionally. That is the MO of the Steelers, Patriots, Colts, NO and Packers and every other long standing championship caliber team. So please do not lump every GM in the league into the dumb by saying they all start a team by building an OL.... The winners and smart GMS do just the opposite build the OL after you have the folks that make points..
We on the other hand have been passing on potential game breakers like Adrian Peterson for years to get OL guys with first round picks and then scoring 6 points a game and missing the playoffs each and every year. Go through the 12 year recent history of the Browns and you will see we wasted a lot of picks on OL guys. We drafted O'Hara cut him to draft Faine with a one pick and then cut Faine and drafted Mack with a one pick. Faine and O"hara both made it to the Super Bowl after we drafted them and we make it to the toilet bowl with three high first round OL guys.
One can lead the horse to water but not make him drink it...................and you cannot turn a plow horse into a race horse...................and that is exactly what the OL is the plow horses of football.................a dime a dozen
Ya, that was the Browns plan when they first got back in '99... how'd that work out??? These 2 are idiots
Oh and I didn't know we had an NFL GM who had the time to post on our message board here... wow that's something special. Thank you for your knowledge and wisdom... dumba$$
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Gee, the Red sounds just like Ghoolie and your estimation of the Browns- so shut up. A win is a win. Since you're in a firing mode, fire the special teams coach NOW He sucks. Except for a phantom block in the back, the Browns give up yet another special teams TD, and get two Dawson FGs blocked. Most definitely unspecial.
Rich, I have never said we don't need playmakers- but the best playmakers in the NFL would be useless on an offensive line that can't block for more than 2 seconds, or open 1\2 decent holes for a running back. Hardesty made most of that yardage on his own.
i agree.
listen i don't think anyone should get fired BUT if this is another evaluation year i think i've evaluated (and i'm NOT a football genius) that the special teams coach sucks. wouldn't it be a message to everybody else that they need to step up their game if fat ass holmgren actually put the boot to someone deserved?
back to rich's OP. let me ask you this rich: is the Dline important? do you need run stoppers and qb rushers? yes, correct?
who do you think on offense has to stop these guys, to block them, to stop the sack, the hurries the losses in the backfield.
exactly. yeah i know. it hurts sometimes to be wrong. of course we need playmakers and people who can stretch the field but can we get one area of the football team fixed and set then go from there.
i agree.
listen i don't think anyone should get fired BUT if this is another evaluation year i think i've evaluated (and i'm NOT a football genius) that the special teams coach sucks. wouldn't it be a message to everybody else that they need to step up their game if fat ass holmgren actually put the boot to someone deserved?
back to rich's OP. let me ask you this rich: is the Dline important? do you need run stoppers and qb rushers? yes, correct?
who do you think on offense has to stop these guys, to block them, to stop the sack, the hurries the losses in the backfield.
exactly. yeah i know. it hurts sometimes to be wrong. of course we need playmakers and people who can stretch the field but can we get one area of the football team fixed and set then go from there.
Good question the guys who are supposed to stop dominators on defense are the dime a dozen guys who could not dominate on defense........................and it is as simple as that................when all the other positions are filled you are an OL guy
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I would like to know where you come up with "$80 million" offensive line number? Or did you just make that up?
Though it is probably an irrelevent question it is a fair question to ask however: what are the guaranteed contract salaries for each position on the team. Is there even a place to find out that info....or is it confidential.
Assuming you do find those numbers, then you will need to ask yourself if the Browns are getting value for their money based on those player's performance.
I would like to know where you come up with "$80 million" offensive line number? Or did you just make that up?
Though it is probably an irrelevent question it is a fair question to ask however: what are the guaranteed contract salaries for each position on the team. Is there even a place to find out that info....or is it confidential.
Assuming you do find those numbers, then you will need to ask yourself if the Browns are getting value for their money based on those player's performance.
I made it up, but I challenge you to discredit that we have paid more for OL guys the last 11 years and still stank
Offense Wins.......Franchise QB's are the key.............Defense keeps you in the game.........Go Buckeyes -
Larry, you keep missing it.. Every GM is not stupid, the smart GM's like me understand how to win. You get a franchise QB and franchise set of skill players who score points and then disruptive players on defense and when that is all done you get OL guys, When you are really good at filling those needs and building a championship franchise you at times have the luxury of expending top pics on OL guys occasionally. That is the MO of the Steelers
BS Rich. That was NEVER the MO of the Steelers. The QB was the LAST piece of the puzzle the Steelers added. They had their complete defense in place, their RBs, WRs, and most of their OL. They were able to have a 15-1 record with a rookie QB.
Larry, you keep missing it.. Every GM is not stupid, the smart GM's like me understand how to win. You get a franchise QB and franchise set of skill players who score points and then disruptive players on defense and when that is all done you get OL guys, When you are really good at filling those needs and building a championship franchise you at times have the luxury of expending top pics on OL guys occasionally. That is the MO of the Steelers
BS Rich. That was NEVER the MO of the Steelers. The QB was the LAST piece of the puzzle the Steelers added. They had their complete defense in place, their RBs, WRs, and most of their OL. They were able to have a 15-1 record with a rookie QB.
You clearly never read Dan Rooneys book the secret to winning in the NFL............and you obviously never understood Paul Browns "greatest show in football the Cleveland Browns dominationg for more than a decade................but you suck the manure you are fed.......................while Belichcik laughs and says keep sucking stupid so we can win...........and you beturass the Steelers formula has always been field stretchers on offense lead by a franchise QB and disrupters on D ...........................and then having the OL filled in
But we are Brownstown focused on Dawgs and OLs and losing
Offense Wins.......Franchise QB's are the key.............Defense keeps you in the game.........Go Buckeyes -
Larry, you keep missing it.. Every GM is not stupid, the smart GM's like me understand how to win. You get a franchise QB and franchise set of skill players who score points and then disruptive players on defense and when that is all done you get OL guys, When you are really good at filling those needs and building a championship franchise you at times have the luxury of expending top pics on OL guys occasionally. That is the MO of the Steelers, Patriots, Colts, NO and Packers and every other long standing championship caliber team. So please do not lump every GM in the league into the dumb by saying they all start a team by building an OL.... The winners and smart GMS do just the opposite build the OL after you have the folks that make points..
We on the other hand have been passing on potential game breakers like Adrian Peterson for years to get OL guys with first round picks and then scoring 6 points a game and missing the playoffs each and every year. Go through the 12 year recent history of the Browns and you will see we wasted a lot of picks on OL guys. We drafted O'Hara cut him to draft Faine with a one pick and then cut Faine and drafted Mack with a one pick. Faine and O"hara both made it to the Super Bowl after we drafted them and we make it to the toilet bowl with three high first round OL guys.
One can lead the horse to water but not make him drink it...................and you cannot turn a plow horse into a race horse...................and that is exactly what the OL is the plow horses of football.................a dime a dozen
Ya, that was the Browns plan when they first got back in '99... how'd that work out??? These 2 are idiots
Oh and I didn't know we had an NFL GM who had the time to post on our message board here... wow that's something special. Thank you for your knowledge and wisdom... dumba$$
Ya, that was the Browns plan when they first got back in '99... how'd that work out??? These 2 are idiots
Oh and I didn't know we had an NFL GM who had the time to post on our message board here... wow that's something special. Thank you for your knowledge and wisdom... dumba$
Sorry for saying this but look up 99 and see where we focused and if you cannot understand it was the oline ................t.hen you are an idiot ..........................we spent all our money on the OLiNE in 99 and that is a fact..................and about every three years since,....................while losing all the time and winning JACK NOTHING
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@junkyard-dawg said:
You mean Defense ALWAYS wins championship. Of course this clueless bandwagon Stooler fagboy wouldn't know that because he doesn't know shit about football. A f*cking 6 year old on a peewee team has more knowledge than Retarded4Skin.
Yup, just ask Belicheat.......
Matt Light- 2nd rounder
Logan Mankins- 1st rounder
Nate Solder- 1st rounder
Sebastian Vollmer- 2nd rounder
Hmm two first rounders and two 2nd rounders on a 5 man Oline. I take it you're back on the Pats bandwagon again this week like you were for half of last year? Oh well, at least do some research before running your herpes infested cock holster Stooler boy.
You son have no clue obviously what has happened the last 12 years but your are indeed great at pissing in the wind into my expertise..............................any time anywhere ..let me take all your money away........first off which one of these picks of the great Patriots was top of the draft like the ten we had in the last ten years.......................the Patriots draft 31 or 32 we draft 1 thru 5 and now can we score 6 points against a patheitc team...................keep defending stupid..............
you see it is about taking the best player available at the time unless you have an overwhelming need.......................meanwhile we have stank everywhere and kept taking OL guys to make it better..........................and that is documented
and I do expect what I just said went over your head
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I would like to know where you come up with "$80 million" offensive line number? Or did you just make that up?
Though it is probably an irrelevent question it is a fair question to ask however: what are the guaranteed contract salaries for each position on the team. Is there even a place to find out that info....or is it confidential.
Assuming you do find those numbers, then you will need to ask yourself if the Browns are getting value for their money based on those player's performance.
I made it up, but I challenge you to discredit that we have paid more for OL guys the last 11 years and still stank
I made it up, but I challenge you to discredit that we have paid more for OL guys the last 11 years and still stank
There is no doubt that the Browns have had some stinko OLs in the past and if they were paid a farthing they were probably overpaid....but with the likes of Thomas, Mack, and Steinbach I can't say they have not performed up to their pay grade. And there may be some other current OL that aren't performing up to their pay grade.
One of the big problems right now is that Steinbach isn't in there.
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