Our 80 Million Dollar Oline
-
NO you did not if defense wins why does offense win Super Bowls..31 points given up is not defense
It is amusing to see us want to cling onto losing despite reality and statistics
Here's the most amazing stat of all Rich.
The team that scores the most points wins!!! 100% of the time!!!
You're using a ONE GAME (too small a sample size) to feebly attempt to prove your point. Using your flawed logic I could just as easily say the Saints ( who just racked up 62 points against the Colts) are the greatest offensive juggernaut in the last 15 years. Gipper's numbers clearly showed it's easier to get to (and win) the Super Bowl with a great defense and so-so offense. Yeah, 95 percent of the time you don't even GET to the Super Bowl without at least a decent, and more often than not- GREAT defense.
I had to look up some SB history too. The average score in the Super Bowl is 30-15. So why is that? Mainly because there's been an inordinate number of blowouts in the game. (I'll count a blowout as a win by more than 10 points- there's been 21 of the 45 SBs that qualify.) And if you bother to look at those blowout games in more detail, the team that got blown out was horribly overmatched from the get-go, or happened to have an atypical horrible game. See above- you think if the Colts played the Saints again, they'd have another 62 points racked up on them? Don't think so.
I for one am done arguing the point with you. There's still people who believe the government is hiding an alien spaceship in Roswell.
Here's the most amazing stat of all Rich.
The team that scores the most points wins!!! 100% of the time!!!
You're using a ONE GAME (too small a sample size) to feebly attempt to prove your point. Using your flawed logic I could just as easily say the Saints ( who just racked up 62 points against the Colts) are the greatest offensive juggernaut in the last 15 years. Gipper's numbers clearly showed it's easier to get to (and win) the Super Bowl with a great defense and so-so offense. Yeah, 95 percent of the time you don't even GET to the Super Bowl without at least a decent, and more often than not- GREAT defense.
I had to look up some SB history too. The average score in the Super Bowl is 30-15. So why is that? Mainly because there's been an inordinate number of blowouts in the game. (I'll count a blowout as a win by more than 10 points- there's been 21 of the 45 SBs that qualify.) And if you bother to look at those blowout games in more detail, the team that got blown out was horribly overmatched from the get-go, or happened to have an atypical horrible game. See above- you think if the Colts played the Saints again, they'd have another 62 points racked up on them? Don't think so.
I for one am done arguing the point with you. There's still people who believe the government is hiding an alien spaceship in Roswell.
Lets go over this again......................average winning score of the Super Bowl is 31 points................does than mean the loser Defense sucked??????????????? There is no way out of this Larry either the winners had great offense or the losers sucked on defense in which both defeat the stupid argument that defense wins super bowls And yes indeed please go again and tell me how the OL caused any team to win jack...............or in our case STANK
you can be done arguing wrong headed but denial of reality is a fault of losers and your belief as is Brownstown is the belief of losers and record supports it
-
rich4eagle is nothing more than a Fing follower. he has no clue what to do with his life if he doesn't have someone telling him what to do, where to go, who to suck off......
you are an embarrassment to any person that has a spine.
does your grandmother hear you in the basement when you cry?
...............your post is what your are a punk and sniveling jackass................bring it............ only childish fool would bring up anothers person grandmother.........and blowjobs..
if you had an ounce of character you would apologize for that abomination of post which had nothing to do with how win football games which is all that I detailed in depth with acumen while you are focused on blowjobs and grandmothers and gutlessness........
I I surmise that you are 12 going on 13 because no adult would have posted the garbage you did PUNK
...............your post is what your are a punk and sniveling jackass................bring it................go for it jerk...............get some balls call the place and time.......................and I will kick your ass
further you moron anyone with substance would never bring up anothers person grandmother...............but a punk like YOU does that and the stupid fellatio COMMENT among other stupidity
I will enjoy beating the living stuffing out of you....................PUNK...............get some balls and lets rumble.................PUNK
TEST MY SPINE PUNK
better yet punk just send me your address and I will be there.......................spinless and all
now if you have an ounce of character apologize for that abomination of post which had nothing to do with how win football games which is all that I detailed in depth with acumen while you are focused on blowjobs and grandmothers and gutlessness................but I will indeed kick the snot out you and pleasurably you balless baboon
I do surmise that you are 12 going on 13 because no adult would have posted the garbage you did PUNK
Watch out Mik. Rich is a real bad ass. When I was working in Sterling VA, he challenged me. Meet him at the Washington MT in DC. The old fooking pussy never showed. Him and Ghoolie are pieces of garbage.
-
rich4eagle is nothing more than a Fing follower. he has no clue what to do with his life if he doesn't have someone telling him what to do, where to go, who to suck off......
you are an embarrassment to any person that has a spine.
does your grandmother hear you in the basement when you cry?
...............your post is what your are a punk and sniveling jackass................bring it............ only childish fool would bring up anothers person grandmother.........and blowjobs..
if you had an ounce of character you would apologize for that abomination of post which had nothing to do with how win football games which is all that I detailed in depth with acumen while you are focused on blowjobs and grandmothers and gutlessness........
I I surmise that you are 12 going on 13 because no adult would have posted the garbage you did PUNK
wow i bet he's in the basement now listening to tina turner applying lipstick and stroking it to everyone's avatar. I could only come up with four centers since 99. 2 of em went to pro bowls and a third will go to a few im sure. Sorry we didn't spring on jamarcus Russell, peter warrick, Charles rogers, Kyle boller, or Ron dayne. Would one of them playmakers have made u cheer up and pick up your toys so grandma doesn't fall down the stairs bringing ya nanas and sippy cup...............your post is what your are a punk and sniveling jackass................bring it................go for it jerk...............get some balls call the place and time.......................and I will kick your ass
further you moron anyone with substance would never bring up anothers person grandmother...............but a punk like YOU does that and the stupid fellatio COMMENT among other stupidity
I will enjoy beating the living stuffing out of you....................PUNK...............get some balls and lets rumble.................PUNK
TEST MY SPINE PUNK
better yet punk just send me your address and I will be there.......................spinless and all
now if you have an ounce of character apologize for that abomination of post which had nothing to do with how win football games which is all that I detailed in depth with acumen while you are focused on blowjobs and grandmothers and gutlessness................but I will indeed kick the snot out you and pleasurably you balless baboon
I do surmise that you are 12 going on 13 because no adult would have posted the garbage you did PUNK
"We are Americans. We don't quit doing something because it's wrong. We just keep doing the wrong thing till it turns out right." Browns maybe the most American Football team ever. -
This thread is so amusing OL is the key despite the losing and defense wins Super Bowls even if the winner scores 31 points on average against those august useless defenses.......................and the beat goes on........................the herd drinking cool aid of losers keeps spouting the dumbmess amd yet Ghoolie and I Correctomundo going a dozen years have been correctomundo all dozen............................but the herd swills the cool aid and never gets it
and maybe that is why Brownstown is where it is .......................LOSERS
meantime losers we spent way more money on OL guys the last twelve years than any other team but we keep losing famously
This thread is so amusing OL is the key despite the losing and defense wins Super Bowls even if the winner scores 31 points on average against those august useless defenses.......................and the beat goes on........................the herd drinking cool aid of losers keeps spouting the dumbmess amd yet Ghoolie and I Correctomundo going a dozen years have been correctomundo all dozen............................but the herd swills the cool aid and never gets it
and maybe that is why Brownstown is where it is .......................LOSERS
meantime losers we spent way more money on OL guys the last twelve years than any other team but we keep losing famously
meanwhile back to football after two assholes deflected it to stupidity...especially our retired military buffoon who NEVER MADE OFFICER still going on ten years old..............HOW ABOUT STICKING TO THE SUBJECT cd .................>OL ARE A DIME A DOZEN AND oFFENSE WINS CHAMPIONSHIPS OR IST THAT TOO HARD FOR YOUR JUVENILE MIND...................SAD THE RESPONSES HAVE TURNED TO HISSY SHIT FITS
-
wow i bet he's in the basement now listening to tina turner applying lipstick and stroking it to everyone's avatar. I could only come up with four centers since 99. 2 of em went to pro bowls and a third will go to a few im sure. Sorry we didn't spring on jamarcus Russell, peter warrick, Charles rogers, Kyle boller, or Ron dayne. Would one of them playmakers have made u cheer up and pick up your toys so grandma doesn't fall down the stairs bringing ya nanas and sippy cup...............your post is what your are a punk and sniveling jackass................bring it................go for it jerk...............get some balls call the place and time.......................and I will kick your ass
further you moron anyone with substance would never bring up anothers person grandmother...............but a punk like YOU does that and the stupid fellatio COMMENT among other stupidity
I will enjoy beating the living stuffing out of you....................PUNK...............get some balls and lets rumble.................PUNK
TEST MY SPINE PUNK
better yet punk just send me your address and I will be there.......................spinless and all
now if you have an ounce of character apologize for that abomination of post which had nothing to do with how win football games which is all that I detailed in depth with acumen while you are focused on blowjobs and grandmothers and gutlessness................but I will indeed kick the snot out you and pleasurably you balless baboon
I do surmise that you are 12 going on 13 because no adult would have posted the garbage you did PUNK
wow i bet he's in the basement now listening to tina turner applying lipstick and stroking it to everyone's avatar. I could only come up with four centers since 99. 2 of em went to pro bowls and a third will go to a few im sure. Sorry we didn't spring on jamarcus Russell, peter warrick, Charles rogers, Kyle boller, or Ron dayne. Would one of them playmakers have made u cheer up and pick up your toys so grandma doesn't fall down the stairs bringing ya nanas and sippy cup
First round Mack and Faine second round Fowler, first signee in expansion Jim Pyne and O"hara free agent signee that makes five.....................since you know everything you can figure out the sixth center.....................I will not help you MR INSULT because no need to waste time on jerks..................and I see you are focused on peoples grandmothers as a good jackass should be.............>IDIOT
-
Rich, Rich, Rich.
Come on, now. I have a huge groundhog out in our alfalpha field that could kick your arse.
But you said "drafted six centers" and then you bring up the ones who weren't drafted.
And, maybe you know this already.... there's more to an oline than center and LT.
Which, speaking of the LT... the Browns never drafted one til Joe Thomas.
I'm guessing there... I could be wrong....
And they still haven't drafted a RT. The RT play has killed the Browns on the right side, plain and simple.
Did you see the stupid, stinkin ratbirds and the Jags play Monday night? Both qbs drafted high, plenty of talent around them...
and both qb's stunk up the joint in a huge way.
The................oline.....................is..........................the......................engine.................of..............the.....................car.
You think the car can win a Nascar race without an engine, or with any old "dime a dozen" lawnmower engine.
Right now, the Browns have a good engine, but one of the pistons isn't firing. You fix that, get a new tire or two,
and then you can run.
-
Rich, Rich, Rich.
Come on, now. I have a huge groundhog out in our alfalpha field that could kick your arse.
But you said "drafted six centers" and then you bring up the ones who weren't drafted.
And, maybe you know this already.... there's more to an oline than center and LT.
Which, speaking of the LT... the Browns never drafted one til Joe Thomas.
I'm guessing there... I could be wrong....
And they still haven't drafted a RT. The RT play has killed the Browns on the right side, plain and simple.
Did you see the stupid, stinkin ratbirds and the Jags play Monday night? Both qbs drafted high, plenty of talent around them...
and both qb's stunk up the joint in a huge way.
The................oline.....................is..........................the......................engine.................of..............the.....................car.
You think the car can win a Nascar race without an engine, or with any old "dime a dozen" lawnmower engine.
Right now, the Browns have a good engine, but one of the pistons isn't firing. You fix that, get a new tire or two,
and then you can run.
Rich, Rich, Rich.
Come on, now. I have a huge groundhog out in our alfalpha field that could kick your arse.
But you said "drafted six centers" and then you bring up the ones who weren't drafted.
And, maybe you know this already.... there's more to an oline than center and LT.
Which, speaking of the LT... the Browns never drafted one til Joe Thomas.
I'm guessing there... I could be wrong....
And they still haven't drafted a RT. The RT play has killed the Browns on the right side, plain and simple.
Did you see the stupid, stinkin ratbirds and the Jags play Monday night? Both qbs drafted high, plenty of talent around them...
and both qb's stunk up the joint in a huge way.
The................oline.....................is..........................the......................engine.................of..............the.....................car.
You think the car can win a Nascar race without an engine, or with any old "dime a dozen" lawnmower engine.
Right now, the Browns have a good engine, but one of the pistons isn't firing. You fix that, get a new tire or two,
and then you can run.
You dont get it Cal, that is understandable. The engine is the QB and the RB's and WR's and playmakers on defense. Just ask Indy and NO and NE and Pittsburgh...........................yah know the teams that win every year
-
Rich, Rich, Rich.
Come on, now. I have a huge groundhog out in our alfalpha field that could kick your arse.
But you said "drafted six centers" and then you bring up the ones who weren't drafted.
And, maybe you know this already.... there's more to an oline than center and LT.
Which, speaking of the LT... the Browns never drafted one til Joe Thomas.
I'm guessing there... I could be wrong....
And they still haven't drafted a RT. The RT play has killed the Browns on the right side, plain and simple.
Did you see the stupid, stinkin ratbirds and the Jags play Monday night? Both qbs drafted high, plenty of talent around them...
and both qb's stunk up the joint in a huge way.
The................oline.....................is..........................the......................engine.................of..............the.....................car.
You think the car can win a Nascar race without an engine, or with any old "dime a dozen" lawnmower engine.
Right now, the Browns have a good engine, but one of the pistons isn't firing. You fix that, get a new tire or two,
and then you can run.
You dont get it Cal, that is understandable. The engine is the QB and the RB's and WR's and playmakers on defense. Just ask Indy and NO and NE and Pittsburgh...........................yah know the teams that win every year
You dont get it Cal, that is understandable. The engine is the QB and the RB's and WR's and playmakers on defense. Just ask Indy and NO and NE and Pittsburgh...........................yah know the teams that win every year
Not every one of those teams have an amazing OL but they all have some lineman drafted from the 1st and 2nd rounds.
NE line this year: Light (2nd round pick in 2001 - with the team for all their Super Bowls), Mankins (1st round pick - 2 time pro bowler), Waters (5 time pro bowler previously with the chiefs), Vollmer (2nd round draft pick in '09), and Connelly (only average lineman on the team). Best OL in the league by far. If you watch any NE games you will see Brady literally standing around all day until someone is open..
GB has 2 or 3 lineman drafted in the 1st and 2nd rounds as well. Same as Pittsburgh. I don't know about every other good team but it's obvious that teams put much more emphasis on the OL than you do..
-
You dont get it Cal, that is understandable. The engine is the QB and the RB's and WR's and playmakers on defense. Just ask Indy and NO and NE and Pittsburgh...........................yah know the teams that win every year
Not every one of those teams have an amazing OL but they all have some lineman drafted from the 1st and 2nd rounds.
NE line this year: Light (2nd round pick in 2001 - with the team for all their Super Bowls), Mankins (1st round pick - 2 time pro bowler), Waters (5 time pro bowler previously with the chiefs), Vollmer (2nd round draft pick in '09), and Connelly (only average lineman on the team). Best OL in the league by far. If you watch any NE games you will see Brady literally standing around all day until someone is open..
GB has 2 or 3 lineman drafted in the 1st and 2nd rounds as well. Same as Pittsburgh. I don't know about every other good team but it's obvious that teams put much more emphasis on the OL than you do..
Not every one of those teams have an amazing OL but they all have some lineman drafted from the 1st and 2nd rounds.
NE line this year: Light (2nd round pick in 2001 - with the team for all their Super Bowls), Mankins (1st round pick - 2 time pro bowler), Waters (5 time pro bowler previously with the chiefs), Vollmer (2nd round draft pick in '09), and Connelly (only average lineman on the team). Best OL in the league by far. If you watch any NE games you will see Brady literally standing around all day until someone is open..
GB has 2 or 3 lineman drafted in the 1st and 2nd rounds as well. Same as Pittsburgh. I don't know about every other good team but it's obvious that teams put much more emphasis on the OL than you do..
We've told that to Rich already- a couple of times. So does every GM in the NFL. Rich thinks guys like Jeff Saturday grow on trees. Functions like keeping your qb healthy and opening holes for running backs can be done by duds. Let's see- Bardford-injured. Stafford-injured. Rothlisberger-injured. Common thread, just like 31 points in the SB? Crummy o-lines.
I'm done discussing it any further. He's right- I'm wrong- Cal's wrong-you're wrong- every freaking expert commentator is wrong.
He's so far in denial that he's been toasted, it's ridiculous. Gipper put up some telling statistics, and all he's got is 31 points in the Super Bowl- yup, that won the Super Bowl all right- but it didn't get the team that put up the 31 points there. And it doesn't account for teams from the losing conference that wouldn't have even been there if they had played in the other conference- Denver a bunch of times and Atlanta come to mind- and promptly got blown out. Sorry, just because the winning team in the Super Bowl has scored less than 20 points only twice since 1970 does not prove offense wins championships- it does prove from a historical perspective you had better score a lot of points in the Super Bowl if you expect to win.
-
Not every one of those teams have an amazing OL but they all have some lineman drafted from the 1st and 2nd rounds.
NE line this year: Light (2nd round pick in 2001 - with the team for all their Super Bowls), Mankins (1st round pick - 2 time pro bowler), Waters (5 time pro bowler previously with the chiefs), Vollmer (2nd round draft pick in '09), and Connelly (only average lineman on the team). Best OL in the league by far. If you watch any NE games you will see Brady literally standing around all day until someone is open..
GB has 2 or 3 lineman drafted in the 1st and 2nd rounds as well. Same as Pittsburgh. I don't know about every other good team but it's obvious that teams put much more emphasis on the OL than you do..
We've told that to Rich already- a couple of times. So does every GM in the NFL. Rich thinks guys like Jeff Saturday grow on trees. Functions like keeping your qb healthy and opening holes for running backs can be done by duds. Let's see- Bardford-injured. Stafford-injured. Rothlisberger-injured. Common thread, just like 31 points in the SB? Crummy o-lines.
I'm done discussing it any further. He's right- I'm wrong- Cal's wrong-you're wrong- every freaking expert commentator is wrong.
He's so far in denial that he's been toasted, it's ridiculous. Gipper put up some telling statistics, and all he's got is 31 points in the Super Bowl- yup, that won the Super Bowl all right- but it didn't get the team that put up the 31 points there. And it doesn't account for teams from the losing conference that wouldn't have even been there if they had played in the other conference- Denver a bunch of times and Atlanta come to mind- and promptly got blown out. Sorry, just because the winning team in the Super Bowl has scored less than 20 points only twice since 1970 does not prove offense wins championships- it does prove from a historical perspective you had better score a lot of points in the Super Bowl if you expect to win.
We've told that to Rich already- a couple of times. So does every GM in the NFL. Rich thinks guys like Jeff Saturday grow on trees. Functions like keeping your qb healthy and opening holes for running backs can be done by duds. Let's see- Bardford-injured. Stafford-injured. Rothlisberger-injured. Common thread, just like 31 points in the SB? Crummy o-lines.
I'm done discussing it any further. He's right- I'm wrong- Cal's wrong-you're wrong- every freaking expert commentator is wrong.
He's so far in denial that he's been toasted, it's ridiculous. Gipper put up some telling statistics, and all he's got is 31 points in the Super Bowl- yup, that won the Super Bowl all right- but it didn't get the team that put up the 31 points there. And it doesn't account for teams from the losing conference that wouldn't have even been there if they had played in the other conference- Denver a bunch of times and Atlanta come to mind- and promptly got blown out. Sorry, just because the winning team in the Super Bowl has scored less than 20 points only twice since 1970 does not prove offense wins championships- it does prove from a historical perspective you had better score a lot of points in the Super Bowl if you expect to win.
Larry smoke these statistics once more. In the first twenty years of the Browns in the NFL they drafted one offensive lineman in the first round in 1955 and he got cut. They made the playoffs five of the five years there was a playoff game in the sixties. They won the championship four times when there was no playoff and they were an offensive juggernaut all of those years. Since the rebirth they spent a fortune on free agents Lomas Brown, Jim Pyne, Orlando Brown, Tony Jones, Dave Wolabaugh, Shaun O'Hara, Ryan Tucker, Ross Verba, Raod Grader Garmon, Joe Andruzzi, Eric Steinbach and others. They spent the 1st round 21 pick on Jeff Faine, the first round 21 pick on Alex Mack, the first round, 3 pick on Joe Thomas, a third round pick Lavauo, a third round pick on Fowler and 5th round pick on Pontbriand.. For all those players chased and drafted we still stink on offense. Wolabaugh, O'hara, Fowler, Mack, Faine and Pontbriand are all centers all six of em. BTW, Faine and O'Hara and Brown and Oben all played in the Super Bowl for other teams two of left tackles and two em centers after we released them or in Faine's case traded him for nearly nothing. All startes and their teams one at least three of those Super Bowls. Like I said dime a dozen!
NO team in the NFL has spend higher drafts picks or more money on OL guys in the last 11 years than the Browns. Yet we have not had an offense worth a crap in any of those years.. Because we spent way too much buying an offensive line and not getting playmakers. Smoke that telling statisitc.
.
You are supposed to be a mod, yet, ridiculously say I got smoked, for not answering Gipper and Cal and others , who tell lies about me spew insults, why should I respond, or to the Super Mod Zombo liar supreme, or Cal a third liar(albeit he did attempt to be civil and then resorted to lying) or the 13 year old buffoons who added nothing except their perception of my grandmothers sex habits. Especially, while being smoked as you say all I have done is be right 11 straight years while all of you have been wrong about everything 11 straight years.
Larry, you should be ashamed of yourself for insulting me for providing facts and data that is relevant while saluting rhetoric that proves nothing and saluting juvenile responses of some. Further Larry, Cal and Gipper should be admonished for perpetuating Zombo's lies and Diehard as well for acting like an ass again.. Sad all you senior members especially super mod and total Liar Zombo instead of admitting like Ghoolie so aptly said, that I been cleaning your clocks for ten years gettting and getting it correct repeatedly while you all have been wrong repeatedly.. You allowed my astute vision and understanding and education to you all of my correct view to be transformed into a slobber match of insults of which all you contributed while I stayed on topiic the whole time.. It is clear that none of you has enough fact or data to just counter my views but rather use insults and lies instead
For the idiots, whom none of you so called senior leaders and mods called out for being out of bounds, but rather jumped into and contributed to their dung fiinging, you are all a frigging joke and have no ability to discuss strategic impilications of winning
For those members who have the intellectual capability to actually sort the BS slung on the wall here because of my extraordinary canny and candid and winning views and whom are accepting that the herd is acting like fools and that my points are fact based and need to be considered strongly if the Browns ever hope to return to being a winning franchise, your consideration is appreciated.
31 Points a game for the Super Bowl winner means either Offense wins Championships or there are 31 shiity defenses in the NFL every year. You cannot have it both ways!
BTW, Larry it is you who is in denial, and we been through that a number of times, and yet you have never admitted I been cleaning your clock for a decade. The Browns record and my critiques as to why they would lose prove that. Listen up for once, you may learn about winning or just stay in denial.
I am not throwing the Browns management under the bus, I am just hoping some of them have the werewithal to start thinking like me so they lead a winner instead of perennial loser
Thanks Ghoolie, for being the only man in this whole debate
I sure hope one civil intelligent response is forthcoming, apologies accepted, quit lying Zombo it is disgusting
Offense Wins.......Franchise QB's are the key.............Defense keeps you in the game.........Go Buckeyes -
Sorry Rich- and that's not an apology. Too bad if you got your feelings all hurt. If you think your opinion is right I happen to disagree, and so do 98% of the guys who actually make a living selecting players for their teams in the NFL, as well as 95% of the other posters on this forum. If all it takes is playmakers- the Rams should have a great team with Bradford and Jackson- no wins. Arizona has Kolb and Fitzgerald- one win.
I didn't see anyone in this thread suggest playmakers aren't important. Those will be added in due time. So sure, let's go get us the next Otto Graham, or Jim Brown. Easier said than done. Lord knows we've tried since 1999. The Browns have stunk since their rebirth not because of bad O-line picks, but because of massive busts (or underachievers) in the first round, and even worse drafting in the second and third. Couch, Courtney "soft" Brown, Spare Change Warren, Dupa (your term) Green. Knievel Winslow, Hands of Stone Edwards, Brady "it's a sin if we draft-my term" Quinn and the pick we gave Dallas could have been Rashard Mendenhall or Chris Johnson. Kameron Wimbley isn't reminding anyone of Ray Lewis to date. THAT my dear friend is why the Browns have stunk since 1999, not because we drafted Jeff Faine, who still is playing for Tampa Bay. Geeze Louise, the odds say your should draft a perennial pro bowler 33% of the time in the first round, and we've had exactly one- Joe Thomas.
As to the marvelous Browns teams of the 50's that was a different era. You could play defensive line if you weighed 220 pounds, or offensive line for that matter. Bill Willis is in the frickin' Hall of Fame and he weighed 213 pounds. He'd get killed in today's NFL. How do you like THAT stat? Jim Brown was running over defensive linemen (Dick Modzelewski) that weren't much bigger than he was. Hickerson and Shafrath weighed in at a whopping 250 pounds. Today you have to have guys that are supreme athletes to play OL- Joe Thomas was a multi sport athlete in High School.
And as to our departed high first round OL picks- chalk that up to bad management, not bad picks. If you draft a guy high at ANY position and he starts for 10 years in the NFL, you've done well.
So sure, you can occasionally find great (not turnstiles like St Clair) offensive linemen as late round picks or UFA's. About as often as you find a Marquis Colston (seventh round), Earnest Byner (11th I believe), or grocery bagger Kurt Warner.
-
We've told that to Rich already- a couple of times. So does every GM in the NFL. Rich thinks guys like Jeff Saturday grow on trees. Functions like keeping your qb healthy and opening holes for running backs can be done by duds. Let's see- Bardford-injured. Stafford-injured. Rothlisberger-injured. Common thread, just like 31 points in the SB? Crummy o-lines.
I'm done discussing it any further. He's right- I'm wrong- Cal's wrong-you're wrong- every freaking expert commentator is wrong.
He's so far in denial that he's been toasted, it's ridiculous. Gipper put up some telling statistics, and all he's got is 31 points in the Super Bowl- yup, that won the Super Bowl all right- but it didn't get the team that put up the 31 points there. And it doesn't account for teams from the losing conference that wouldn't have even been there if they had played in the other conference- Denver a bunch of times and Atlanta come to mind- and promptly got blown out. Sorry, just because the winning team in the Super Bowl has scored less than 20 points only twice since 1970 does not prove offense wins championships- it does prove from a historical perspective you had better score a lot of points in the Super Bowl if you expect to win.
Larry smoke these statistics once more. In the first twenty years of the Browns in the NFL they drafted one offensive lineman in the first round in 1955 and he got cut. They made the playoffs five of the five years there was a playoff game in the sixties. They won the championship four times when there was no playoff and they were an offensive juggernaut all of those years. Since the rebirth they spent a fortune on free agents Lomas Brown, Jim Pyne, Orlando Brown, Tony Jones, Dave Wolabaugh, Shaun O'Hara, Ryan Tucker, Ross Verba, Raod Grader Garmon, Joe Andruzzi, Eric Steinbach and others. They spent the 1st round 21 pick on Jeff Faine, the first round 21 pick on Alex Mack, the first round, 3 pick on Joe Thomas, a third round pick Lavauo, a third round pick on Fowler and 5th round pick on Pontbriand.. For all those players chased and drafted we still stink on offense. Wolabaugh, O'hara, Fowler, Mack, Faine and Pontbriand are all centers all six of em. BTW, Faine and O'Hara and Brown and Oben all played in the Super Bowl for other teams two of left tackles and two em centers after we released them or in Faine's case traded him for nearly nothing. All startes and their teams one at least three of those Super Bowls. Like I said dime a dozen!
NO team in the NFL has spend higher drafts picks or more money on OL guys in the last 11 years than the Browns. Yet we have not had an offense worth a crap in any of those years.. Because we spent way too much buying an offensive line and not getting playmakers. Smoke that telling statisitc.
.
You are supposed to be a mod, yet, ridiculously say I got smoked, for not answering Gipper and Cal and others , who tell lies about me spew insults, why should I respond, or to the Super Mod Zombo liar supreme, or Cal a third liar(albeit he did attempt to be civil and then resorted to lying) or the 13 year old buffoons who added nothing except their perception of my grandmothers sex habits. Especially, while being smoked as you say all I have done is be right 11 straight years while all of you have been wrong about everything 11 straight years.
Larry, you should be ashamed of yourself for insulting me for providing facts and data that is relevant while saluting rhetoric that proves nothing and saluting juvenile responses of some. Further Larry, Cal and Gipper should be admonished for perpetuating Zombo's lies and Diehard as well for acting like an ass again.. Sad all you senior members especially super mod and total Liar Zombo instead of admitting like Ghoolie so aptly said, that I been cleaning your clocks for ten years gettting and getting it correct repeatedly while you all have been wrong repeatedly.. You allowed my astute vision and understanding and education to you all of my correct view to be transformed into a slobber match of insults of which all you contributed while I stayed on topiic the whole time.. It is clear that none of you has enough fact or data to just counter my views but rather use insults and lies instead
For the idiots, whom none of you so called senior leaders and mods called out for being out of bounds, but rather jumped into and contributed to their dung fiinging, you are all a frigging joke and have no ability to discuss strategic impilications of winning
For those members who have the intellectual capability to actually sort the BS slung on the wall here because of my extraordinary canny and candid and winning views and whom are accepting that the herd is acting like fools and that my points are fact based and need to be considered strongly if the Browns ever hope to return to being a winning franchise, your consideration is appreciated.
31 Points a game for the Super Bowl winner means either Offense wins Championships or there are 31 shiity defenses in the NFL every year. You cannot have it both ways!
BTW, Larry it is you who is in denial, and we been through that a number of times, and yet you have never admitted I been cleaning your clock for a decade. The Browns record and my critiques as to why they would lose prove that. Listen up for once, you may learn about winning or just stay in denial.
I am not throwing the Browns management under the bus, I am just hoping some of them have the werewithal to start thinking like me so they lead a winner instead of perennial loser
Thanks Ghoolie, for being the only man in this whole debate
I sure hope one civil intelligent response is forthcoming, apologies accepted, quit lying Zombo it is disgusting
NO team in the NFL has spend higher drafts picks or more money on OL guys in the last 11 years than the Browns. Yet we have not had an offense worth a crap in any of those years.. Because we spent way too much buying an offensive line and not getting playmakers. Smoke that telling statisitc.
FALSE!
Number of offensive lineman drafted in rounds 1, 2, or 3 since 1999 (look it up):
Pittsburgh: 8
New England: 7
Baltimore: 7
New Orleans: 6
Cleveland: 5
Do you ever actually use real statistics?
-
NO team in the NFL has spend higher drafts picks or more money on OL guys in the last 11 years than the Browns. Yet we have not had an offense worth a crap in any of those years.. Because we spent way too much buying an offensive line and not getting playmakers. Smoke that telling statisitc.
FALSE!
Number of offensive lineman drafted in rounds 1, 2, or 3 since 1999 (look it up):
Pittsburgh: 8
New England: 7
Baltimore: 7
New Orleans: 6
Cleveland: 5
Do you ever actually use real statistics?
FALSE!
Number of offensive lineman drafted in rounds 1, 2, or 3 since 1999 (look it up):
Pittsburgh: 8
New England: 7
Baltimore: 7
New Orleans: 6
Cleveland: 5
Do you ever actually use real statistics?
Don't let facts get in the way of a good delusion.
-
FALSE!
Number of offensive lineman drafted in rounds 1, 2, or 3 since 1999 (look it up):
Pittsburgh: 8
New England: 7
Baltimore: 7
New Orleans: 6
Cleveland: 5
Do you ever actually use real statistics?
Don't let facts get in the way of a good delusion.
Don't let facts get in the way of a good delusion.
number of FA's signed for buckoo millions Browns 8 others dah......................you made your bed Larry
we spent more money on the OL than other team and we stink
and cannot score and have a pathetic offense again
and OH yeah the Super Bowl winners still average 31 points a game and yes indeed four of those winners had starters two at center and two at LT that we cut....i.n the dime a dozen OL marry go round
NOW QUOTE ME LARRY INSTEAD OF THE BS
and the one thing you forgot as your mentor forgot the teams you quoted were loaded with talent and draft picks and low in the round draft picks while we spent ours on top of the draft first rounders................
after the first 25 picks the rest our hope to be game changers..............we blew our wad on OL guys
-
Sorry Rich- and that's not an apology. Too bad if you got your feelings all hurt. If you think your opinion is right I happen to disagree, and so do 98% of the guys who actually make a living selecting players for their teams in the NFL, as well as 95% of the other posters on this forum. If all it takes is playmakers- the Rams should have a great team with Bradford and Jackson- no wins. Arizona has Kolb and Fitzgerald- one win.
I didn't see anyone in this thread suggest playmakers aren't important. Those will be added in due time. So sure, let's go get us the next Otto Graham, or Jim Brown. Easier said than done. Lord knows we've tried since 1999. The Browns have stunk since their rebirth not because of bad O-line picks, but because of massive busts (or underachievers) in the first round, and even worse drafting in the second and third. Couch, Courtney "soft" Brown, Spare Change Warren, Dupa (your term) Green. Knievel Winslow, Hands of Stone Edwards, Brady "it's a sin if we draft-my term" Quinn and the pick we gave Dallas could have been Rashard Mendenhall or Chris Johnson. Kameron Wimbley isn't reminding anyone of Ray Lewis to date. THAT my dear friend is why the Browns have stunk since 1999, not because we drafted Jeff Faine, who still is playing for Tampa Bay. Geeze Louise, the odds say your should draft a perennial pro bowler 33% of the time in the first round, and we've had exactly one- Joe Thomas.
As to the marvelous Browns teams of the 50's that was a different era. You could play defensive line if you weighed 220 pounds, or offensive line for that matter. Bill Willis is in the frickin' Hall of Fame and he weighed 213 pounds. He'd get killed in today's NFL. How do you like THAT stat? Jim Brown was running over defensive linemen (Dick Modzelewski) that weren't much bigger than he was. Hickerson and Shafrath weighed in at a whopping 250 pounds. Today you have to have guys that are supreme athletes to play OL- Joe Thomas was a multi sport athlete in High School.
And as to our departed high first round OL picks- chalk that up to bad management, not bad picks. If you draft a guy high at ANY position and he starts for 10 years in the NFL, you've done well.
So sure, you can occasionally find great (not turnstiles like St Clair) offensive linemen as late round picks or UFA's. About as often as you find a Marquis Colston (seventh round), Earnest Byner (11th I believe), or grocery bagger Kurt Warner.
Sorry Rich- and that's not an apology. Too bad if you got your feelings all hurt. If you think your opinion is right I happen to disagree, and so do 98% of the guys who actually make a living selecting players for their teams in the NFL, as well as 95% of the other posters on this forum. If all it takes is playmakers- the Rams should have a great team with Bradford and Jackson- no wins. Arizona has Kolb and Fitzgerald- one win.
I didn't see anyone in this thread suggest playmakers aren't important. Those will be added in due time. So sure, let's go get us the next Otto Graham, or Jim Brown. Easier said than done. Lord knows we've tried since 1999. The Browns have stunk since their rebirth not because of bad O-line picks, but because of massive busts (or underachievers) in the first round, and even worse drafting in the second and third. Couch, Courtney "soft" Brown, Spare Change Warren, Dupa (your term) Green. Knievel Winslow, Hands of Stone Edwards, Brady "it's a sin if we draft-my term" Quinn and the pick we gave Dallas could have been Rashard Mendenhall or Chris Johnson. Kameron Wimbley isn't reminding anyone of Ray Lewis to date. THAT my dear friend is why the Browns have stunk since 1999, not because we drafted Jeff Faine, who still is playing for Tampa Bay. Geeze Louise, the odds say your should draft a perennial pro bowler 33% of the time in the first round, and we've had exactly one- Joe Thomas.
As to the marvelous Browns teams of the 50's that was a different era. You could play defensive line if you weighed 220 pounds, or offensive line for that matter. Bill Willis is in the frickin' Hall of Fame and he weighed 213 pounds. He'd get killed in today's NFL. How do you like THAT stat? Jim Brown was running over defensive linemen (Dick Modzelewski) that weren't much bigger than he was. Hickerson and Shafrath weighed in at a whopping 250 pounds. Today you have to have guys that are supreme athletes to play OL- Joe Thomas was a multi sport athlete in High School.
And as to our departed high first round OL picks- chalk that up to bad management, not bad picks. If you draft a guy high at ANY position and he starts for 10 years in the NFL, you've done well.
So sure, you can occasionally find great (not turnstiles like St Clair) offensive linemen as late round picks or UFA's. About as often as you find a Marquis Colston (seventh round), Earnest Byner (11th I believe), or grocery bagger Kurt Warner.
MY feelings are not hurt! I am sorely disappointed the so called leadership here is acting like sophomoric fools quoting and adulating juveniles. That means you and the rest of the supposed leaders, Larry, is that clear. I expected a lot more from you and you are betraying intelligence but that goes around here. I did not read other than your first phrase of your post, if you have some substance please rescind the asshole first phrase and then repeat whatever points of astute football knowledge you want to enlighten me, otherwise all that I said still holds, you are leading a bunch of jackasses and aciting like one
-
NO team in the NFL has spend higher drafts picks or more money on OL guys in the last 11 years than the Browns. Yet we have not had an offense worth a crap in any of those years.. Because we spent way too much buying an offensive line and not getting playmakers. Smoke that telling statisitc.
FALSE!
Number of offensive lineman drafted in rounds 1, 2, or 3 since 1999 (look it up):
Pittsburgh: 8
New England: 7
Baltimore: 7
New Orleans: 6
Cleveland: 5
Do you ever actually use real statistics?
FALSE!
Number of offensive lineman drafted in rounds 1, 2, or 3 since 1999 (look it up):
Pittsburgh: 8
New England: 7
Baltimore: 7
New Orleans: 6
Cleveland: 5
Do you ever actually use real statistics?
I wish you would take time to read what I said and use simple logic and understand we spent about 50 million signing free agents, maybe you would get it.. Further, I did enumerate just what you said about 5 picks, it is all in my recent post, boom I already knew that and it changes nothing.. But yu know the answer and refuse to attempt to understand what we have done to screw ourselves over and over. Acutally, I use all the statistics and you pick a bunch that are irrelevant, like teams loaded with talent can pick OL guys and teams defunct of talent no matter how many OL guys they pick and sign as free agents it becomes a revolving door of ineptitude
NOW READ WHAT I SAID AND THINK ABOUT WHAT TEAMS DO AND COME AND SLUR ME WITH ANOTHER STUPID STATEMENT AS LAST SINCE YOU COMPLETELY IGNORED THE IMPORTANT STATISTICS HOW MUCH YOU PAY FOR WHAT AND WHAT YOU GET
if you cannot make a rational retort.................please do insult my grandmother and create and support lies about a bet that never existed and do call me stupid..............and then you are officially what you already stated by accident a full fledged member of the cool aid drinking herd wjoch never thinks ebecause they know the answer without the question
thanks for your consideration and reply which ignored what I said but yet used simplicity to get the wrong answer
-
@junkyard-dawg said:
Wrong, then again bandwagon fans usually are.
1954 NFL draft-
Guard- John Bauer, 1st round
1955 NFL draft-
Center- Kurt Burris, 1st round
That would be two. Additionally....
1950-
OT- John Sandusky, 2nd round
1958-
OG- Buzz Guy, 3rd round
1959-
OT- Dick Schafrath, 2nd round
OT- Fran O'Brien, 3rd round
1961-
OT- Ed Nutting, 2nd round
You might THINK you're going to bullshit everyone with your lies but you're not, you will continue to be put into check. Why? Because you are a loud mouth no balls bandwagon Stooler fan talking out his cum dumpster about shit he has no clue about. I realize when the Browns were winning in the 60's you half assed jumped onto the bandwagon alongside the Packers bandwagon then whichever between here and you're newfound Pisstown "fan"ship but you still have zero clue what the hell you're talking about. None. Zero. Nada. In a 10 year period Paul Brown used 1st-3rd round picks on Offensive linemen. Likewise when he created the Bengals he did similar.
You're out of your league lightweight and that sound you hear? That's the rest of TBB laughing at you and the Muslim terrorist Ghoolie.
You are full of shit asshole, the first round pick was Bauer.......................which is what I said and correct.......Burriss was drafted as Linebacker.........read each of my posts jackass and they are consistent, you are stupid and that is expected..........................now what you can do best is call my daugther a blow job queen...............you are up asshole and your stats are DEAD ON WRONG .........or prove otherwise................or get Zombo to make your lie into truth as he does................and you are liar...................because my statement was first round picks and you decided to expand that to your own stupidity whcih I admire your asinesiess, and you included some fantasy picks that were not first round or ever picked /////////////////////but it is what you are an asshole substanceless bluster full and stupid
and YOUR POST IS FLAT OUT LIE AND DECEPTION BUT I DO UNDERSTAND I AM DEALING WITH YOU STUPID
Hello! It looks like you're interested in this conversation, but you don't have an account yet.
Getting fed up of having to scroll through the same posts each visit? When you register for an account, you'll always come back to exactly where you were before, and choose to be notified of new replies (either via email, or push notification). You'll also be able to save bookmarks and upvote posts to show your appreciation to other community members.
With your input, this post could be even better 💗
Register Login