Browns Receivers
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As bad as our recievers have looked I think the play calling is whats really hurting them. We make to many dink and dunk throws. Defense dont have to worry about us getting behind the safteies so all they have to do is let us catch the ball(which is still pretty unlikely) and then make the tackle. Defenses can keep 8 in the box if we keep throwing 3 or 4 yard passes.
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Anyone see that td drop by jones? Just saying...
I've watched julio all 4 times against ole miss, and he's good, not special. He's freaky athletically, for sure. A.J. on the other hand, is special.
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@king-ghoolie-lives said:
What an idiotic post. SO what you are saying is, if a draft pick does not put a team in the SB, then we shouldn't worry about it?
Passing on Julio Jones was the mistake of the year. It will be the grounds for firing Heckert at the end of this season. Julio JOnes is BETTER than anything we have. THAT's how you buid a winner, pimple nuts........ but acquiring players who are better than what you have.
We acquired shit.
I disagree with you. Passing on Julio Jones was not a mistake but not signing any FA WR was.
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@king-ghoolie-lives said:
What an idiotic post. SO what you are saying is, if a draft pick does not put a team in the SB, then we shouldn't worry about it?
Passing on Julio Jones was the mistake of the year. It will be the grounds for firing Heckert at the end of this season. Julio JOnes is BETTER than anything we have. THAT's how you buid a winner, pimple nuts........ but acquiring players who are better than what you have.
We acquired shit.
Sure Jones would have been better than any WR the Browns have right now. But the Browns have 5 picks to fill holes instead of just the 1. You can do math right? 5 > 1.
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@king-ghoolie-lives said:
What an idiotic post. SO what you are saying is, if a draft pick does not put a team in the SB, then we shouldn't worry about it?
Passing on Julio Jones was the mistake of the year. It will be the grounds for firing Heckert at the end of this season. Julio JOnes is BETTER than anything we have. THAT's how you buid a winner, pimple nuts........ but acquiring players who are better than what you have.
We acquired shit.
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@king-ghoolie-lives said:
You're not going to find a JOnes with those five picks. ESPECIALLY with the shit the Browns pick.
quit bitching about the draft
the brownies wouldnt have taken julio jones in the first place and they were going to trade back anyway....it just so happened that the falcons were more interested in moving up than the browns were in moving back
the falcons sacrificed a lot to move up and pick up 1 guy ala ricky williams about a decade ago.
justin blackmon>julio jones
the browns are a team thats building and the draft is one of the best ways to do it......you get more chances to land a star when you get more picks
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@king-ghoolie-lives said:
You're not going to find a JOnes with those five picks. ESPECIALLY with the shit the Browns pick.
quit bitching about the draft
the brownies wouldnt have taken julio jones in the first place and they were going to trade back anyway....it just so happened that the falcons were more interested in moving up than the browns were in moving back
the falcons sacrificed a lot to move up and pick up 1 guy ala ricky williams about a decade ago.
justin blackmon>julio jones
the browns are a team thats building and the draft is one of the best ways to do it......you get more chances to land a star when you get more picks
quit bitching about the draft
the brownies wouldnt have taken julio jones in the first place and they were going to trade back anyway....it just so happened that the falcons were more interested in moving up than the browns were in moving back
the falcons sacrificed a lot to move up and pick up 1 guy ala ricky williams about a decade ago.
justin blackmon>julio jones
the browns are a team thats building and the draft is one of the best ways to do it......you get more chances to land a star when you get more picks
Blackmon will be better than Jones. Right now, as far as I am concerned, Greg Little is as productive as Jones, overall. Jones may have a somewhat better ypc avg., but that is because he doesn't have little dink dick Pat Murmur as his HC. Browns may not get Blackmon because he may be a Top 3 guy.
I think as Browns fans we may be gun shy about first round WRs because of Brayon and K2.
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@king-ghoolie-lives said:
What an idiotic post. SO what you are saying is, if a draft pick does not put a team in the SB, then we shouldn't worry about it?
Passing on Julio Jones was the mistake of the year. It will be the grounds for firing Heckert at the end of this season. Julio JOnes is BETTER than anything we have. THAT's how you buid a winner, pimple nuts........ but acquiring players who are better than what you have.
We acquired shit.
We acquired a pretty good DT in Taylor. And yes, Atlanta, not the Browns made a HUGE mistake giving up that much to get Jones. Every freaking talking head expert happens to agree with me, so shut your dumb pie-hole up. You're starting to sound like Shep who was blowing Joey Harrington for years after me and about 10,000 Lions fans had conclusive proof that he sucked.
Let me refresh your memory the Patriots (who draft and trade smart) only gave up a fourth round pick to get Randy Moss, who for 2 years put up numbers that Julio Jones won't touch this year and probably next. The Falcons gave up a first, second and fourth. The Falcons also sacrificed their future giving up their 2012 first round and fourth round picks to the Browns. I said before, and I'll repeat it- IF THE FALCONS DON'T MAKE THE SUPER BOWL THIS YEAR (THEY WON'T) OR NEXT, THE JONES TRADE WILL PUT THE FRANCHISE IN A TAILSPIN. The only way the Falcons get value for what they gave up is if Jones becomes the next Jerry Rice, and the Browns totally blow all those extra picks.
We got Greg Little in that deal too- here's his numbers- 513 yards, 10.2 ypc, 1 TD. Jones? 566 yards, 16.6 ypc, 2 TDs not that much difference, especially when Jones has Matt Ryan throwing him the ball not Colt McCoy (didn't you just post he sucks?) and has Pro Bowler Roddy White, and HOFer in waiting Tony Gonzales to take the pressure off of him.
+ Ghoolie, you're pissing and moaning about an event that hasn't even happened yet. Let's see what the Browns do with Atlanta' 2012 first and 4th round picks before you can possibly say the trade was stupid. In fact, if Heckert happens to land a top shelf WR with that trade, he's going to look like a forking genius.
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As much as I hate to say it I agree 100% with Ghoolie on this. Cap money isnt cell phone minutes that roll over. The money that we had under the cap this year stays in the pocket of the owner, and does nothing for the next season.
What really p*ssed me off was the fact that late into free agency there were still a handful of decent FAs available. I recall posting on here we needed to bring in Andre Carter because he was a bust 3-4 OLB but a stud 4-3 DE. He not only would have given us a much better pass rush(10.5 sacks this season I believe) but he was going to come for dirt cheap.
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@king-ghoolie-lives said:
I don't disagree about your position on the draft. There are just as many late round superstars as there are early round busts, and regardless of what FO you or I like, acquiring players is a crap shoot.
Even guys who get known publicly for drafting well, have periods where they get nothing right at all.
Absolutely one way to improve your hit rate in the draft is simply by taking more picks. I get it.
At the same time, it seems to me that a team must also have some "hero" players if you will, That is to say, as an example in the 70's era, we would have a guy like Calvin Hill or Lyle Alzado to add some assurance, pizazz and play making the younger guys could count on and rally around.
If we are indeed $23 million under the cap (HArd for me to believe), then it is troublesome. Homers always come up with, " okay, so what FA would you have brought here?. Well, that isn't my job, but just as you make the point of increasing our success rate by having more draft picks, leaving money under the cap translates into the same slam, whoever the FAs were, shouldn't we have at least added a few and see which ones panned out?
I don't want to keep pissing on this parade, but I just don't see this team as having much of a foundation to build on.
The only thing I can fault them on is making NO effort to bring in an experienced WR, when it was obvious that was one of the top weaknesses of the team. This year is shot, let's see what H&H do next year with all that cap room and draft picks, if they don't turn it around then, I truly believe they will have lost the fanbase for good. I agree that the draft is a crap shoot, but like I told Rich the Browns have stunk not because they drafted a couple of offensive linemen high- it's because they have consistently rolled snake eyes with their draft picks. BTW, it's looking like the Browns could draft as high as fifth, almost certainly no lower than tenth, and the Atlanta pick is somewhere in the 20th range, as there's nine teams tied with identical 7-5 records. If NFL.com is taking that into account it's the 24th pick. Too early to count chickens, but the 5th and 24th pick may be enough to move up to get Blackmon, which makes the Atlanta trade a wash.
PS, I'm with you it's going to be real ugly Thursday night. The only game to really hold out hope for is against the Cardinals.
PPS- I know you won't agree, but the Browns already have a few "hero" players in Haden, Cribbs, and Hillis.
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Contracts are back-loaded. We spend 20 million on FA's this year, that's 30 million next year, 40 million the year after, etc. That's just taking money away from the guys we're going to draft and the guys we still have on the team.
No FA's have shown to be absolute game changers for their teams, so in hindsight not signing was the right move. It's not like this was a blockbuster year for FA's.
You don't build a foundation with older FA's, they'll just be gone or want way too much money by the time the team has turned the corner, if it even does turn the corner.
With that in mind, I would have loved to see us take a shot on Aaron Maybin or Aaron Curry. Those are young guys drafted very high that just haven't had the success their respective teams envisioned them having. They came cheap, and would have been excellent project players. Curry is averaging about 5 tackles a game, same as Fujita, is seven years younger than Fujita, and could have been had for a seventh round pick. Plus it would have restored a tiny bit of faith in organization from the "WE NEED FA!" group.
Aaron Maybin is playing as a third down pass rushing DE and has 6 sacks. That's 4 times as many sacks as Ray Edwards. That's 4.5 more sacks that Jayme Mitchell. 5.5 sacks more than Marcus Benard. He was the rare FA that has no leverage, recording 0 sacks or starts in his career, but still tons of potential. He got a 1 yr/$545k contract, and has already proven his worth. After adding about 30 pounds, he has proven to be quite an effective pass rusher.
Sadly, he chose to go the Jets so he could face the Bills twice a year.
Those are the kind of FA's we need to add. Guys with plenty of upside and are still young enough to play for a couple 5 year contracts. None of these 2 year "collect a paycheck and get out" guys.
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You do realize you dont have to backload contracts right? With some of the older guys it is a good idea to front load their garunteed money just in case they lose a step.
I agree that bringing in low risk, big reward players like Curry and Maybin are quintessential for improving this team. Thats not saying that older FAs arent any good, we just cannot commit long term. Look what New England does, they bring in someone for a year, sees if they fit, if not they cut their losses.
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None of the FA WR's [who are willing to seriously consider Cleveland] were worth even half what they signed for. And don't forget, Jones has been injured for 2/3 of the year - that would have happened in Cleveland even if we had taken him.. and then this thread would be full of comments about how stupid walrus was for drafting an injury risk.
So we're drafting Blackmon/Jeffery/Richardson with our first pick next year, and Kuechly with the second pick. We've got so many needs it may not be worth it to trade with Philly to ensure we can draft one of the top2 WR's.
Who's next? Foster, the WR from TA&M in round 2?
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None of the FA WR's [who are willing to seriously consider Cleveland] were worth even half what they signed for. And don't forget, Jones has been injured for 2/3 of the year - that would have happened in Cleveland even if we had taken him.. and then this thread would be full of comments about how stupid walrus was for drafting an injury risk.
So we're drafting Blackmon/Jeffery/Richardson with our first pick next year, and Kuechly with the second pick. We've got so many needs it may not be worth it to trade with Philly to ensure we can draft one of the top2 WR's.
Who's next? Foster, the WR from TA&M in round 2?
None of the FA WR's [who are willing to seriously consider Cleveland] were worth even half what they signed for. And don't forget, Jones has been injured for 2/3 of the year - that would have happened in Cleveland even if we had taken him.. and then this thread would be full of comments about how stupid walrus was for drafting an injury risk.
So we're drafting Blackmon/Jeffery/Richardson with our first pick next year, and Kuechly with the second pick. We've got so many needs it may not be worth it to trade with Philly to ensure we can draft one of the top2 WR's.
Who's next? Foster, the WR from TA&M in round 2?
Isn't Kuechly a MLB? Of course, MHO is Jackson is way over rated. DJ makes a lot of tackles 5 yards past the line of scrimmage. We need an OLB to replace Fujita- he's a solid backup, but this is the second season in a row he's finished on IR. Even when healthy, he's too damn slow.
A lot of the mocks have us taking Richardson, but not happening if Hillis resigns with Cleveland (maybe even if Hillis does leave, and Hardesty can stay healthy the rest of the year- Brandon Jackson should be back in 2012) , and one of the 3 WRs you mentioned is still on the board. Depending on how the draft order falls, I could even see us trading up a few spots to take Blackmon.
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quit bitching about the draft
the brownies wouldnt have taken julio jones in the first place and they were going to trade back anyway....it just so happened that the falcons were more interested in moving up than the browns were in moving back
the falcons sacrificed a lot to move up and pick up 1 guy ala ricky williams about a decade ago.
justin blackmon>julio jones
the browns are a team thats building and the draft is one of the best ways to do it......you get more chances to land a star when you get more picks
Blackmon will be better than Jones. Right now, as far as I am concerned, Greg Little is as productive as Jones, overall. Jones may have a somewhat better ypc avg., but that is because he doesn't have little dink dick Pat Murmur as his HC. Browns may not get Blackmon because he may be a Top 3 guy.
I think as Browns fans we may be gun shy about first round WRs because of Brayon and K2.
Blackmon will be better than Jones. Right now, as far as I am concerned, Greg Little is as productive as Jones, overall. Jones may have a somewhat better ypc avg., but that is because he doesn't have little dink dick Pat Murmur as his HC. Browns may not get Blackmon because he may be a Top 3 guy.
I think as Browns fans we may be gun shy about first round WRs because of Brayon and K2.
obviously little isnt as good as jones but jones is a number 2 guy behind roddy white(who is considered elite) and little is the best WR on the browns(which isnt saying much)
of course little has a lot of room to grow and hes made some great plays in only a short period of time.....having said that hes also shown why he wasnt a 1st rounder while julio has shown again and again why he was a first rounder
i understand being cautious of first round WRs and rightfully so but braylon and winslow were both pretty talented and helped take the brownies to the playoffs so you cant hate them too much
blackmon should be available in the top 5 but depending on where the rams pick i cant see him lasting too long. alshon jeffries is a possibility tho and with the browns 2 picks in the first round, i wouldnt be surprised at all to see them jump around......maybe even trading ahead of the rams to pickup blackmon
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You do realize you dont have to backload contracts right? With some of the older guys it is a good idea to front load their garunteed money just in case they lose a step.
I agree that bringing in low risk, big reward players like Curry and Maybin are quintessential for improving this team. Thats not saying that older FAs arent any good, we just cannot commit long term. Look what New England does, they bring in someone for a year, sees if they fit, if not they cut their losses.
You do realize you dont have to backload contracts right? With some of the older guys it is a good idea to front load their garunteed money just in case they lose a step.
I agree that bringing in low risk, big reward players like Curry and Maybin are quintessential for improving this team. Thats not saying that older FAs arent any good, we just cannot commit long term. Look what New England does, they bring in someone for a year, sees if they fit, if not they cut their losses.
That's assuming the agent will agree, which rarely happens. Agents push for backloaded contracts so the player has more value to the team the longer he's there.
Front loaded contracts are few and far between for the same reason you mentioned, if a player loses a step he can be lopped off with barely any detriment to the team.
In an ideal world, all contracts would be front loaded and incentive laden. Unfortunately that's not the case.
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Blackmon will be better than Jones. Right now, as far as I am concerned, Greg Little is as productive as Jones, overall. Jones may have a somewhat better ypc avg., but that is because he doesn't have little dink dick Pat Murmur as his HC. Browns may not get Blackmon because he may be a Top 3 guy.
I think as Browns fans we may be gun shy about first round WRs because of Brayon and K2.
obviously little isnt as good as jones but jones is a number 2 guy behind roddy white(who is considered elite) and little is the best WR on the browns(which isnt saying much)
of course little has a lot of room to grow and hes made some great plays in only a short period of time.....having said that hes also shown why he wasnt a 1st rounder while julio has shown again and again why he was a first rounder
i understand being cautious of first round WRs and rightfully so but braylon and winslow were both pretty talented and helped take the brownies to the playoffs so you cant hate them too much
blackmon should be available in the top 5 but depending on where the rams pick i cant see him lasting too long. alshon jeffries is a possibility tho and with the browns 2 picks in the first round, i wouldnt be surprised at all to see them jump around......maybe even trading ahead of the rams to pickup blackmon
obviously little isnt as good as jones
Nothing is fucking obvious. The only thing that is obvious is that you have been fed a pile of bullshit that tells you Jones is better. He is NOT better. He has not proved anything beyond the fact that he got drafted higher. OBVIOUSLY Alex Smith is a better QB than Aaron Rodgers....after all, he got drafted higher!!
but jones is a number 2 guy behind roddy white(who is considered elite) and little is the best WR on the browns(which isnt saying much)
of course little has a lot of room to grow and hes made some great plays in only a short period of time.....having said that hes also shown why he wasnt a 1st rounder while julio has shown again and again why he was a first rounder
i understand being cautious of first round WRs and rightfully so but braylon and winslow were both pretty talented and helped take the brownies to the playoffs so you cant hate them too much
The Browns never made the playoffs with either K2 or Edwards on this team. So much for your credibility.
blackmon should be available in the top 5 but depending on where the rams pick i cant see him lasting too long. alshon jeffries is a possibility tho and with the browns 2 picks in the first round, i wouldnt be surprised at all to see them jump around......maybe even trading ahead of the rams to pickup blackmon
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Holy shit. Who pissed in Ur cereal this morning? First off, don't be THAT guy that can't see past his own homerism. Only a browns fan, and a delusional one at that, would think little is better than jones.
Despite playin in 3 less games, jones has more yards and more TDs as the #2 WR than Greg little does as the most targeted wideout on the browns team
Oh yea 2007 they went 10-6. My bad I thought they made the playoffs. 2 years later Braylon and Winslow were gone and the browns were rebuilding AGAIN! Edwards and Winslow are 100 times better than anyone the browns have now. You don't think colt McCoy would love to have some talent like them to throw to?
Don't be dumb
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Holy shit. Who pissed in Ur cereal this morning? First off, don't be THAT guy that can't see past his own homerism. Only a browns fan, and a delusional one at that, would think little is better than jones.
Despite playin in 3 less games, jones has more yards and more TDs as the #2 WR than Greg little does as the most targeted wideout on the browns team
Oh yea 2007 they went 10-6. My bad I thought they made the playoffs. 2 years later Braylon and Winslow were gone and the browns were rebuilding AGAIN! Edwards and Winslow are 100 times better than anyone the browns have now. You don't think colt McCoy would love to have some talent like them to throw to?
Don't be dumb
Holy shit. Who pissed in Ur cereal this morning? First off, don't be THAT guy that can't see past his own homerism. Only a browns fan, and a delusional one at that, would think little is better than jones.
Despite playin in 3 less games, jones has more yards and more TDs as the #2 WR than Greg little does as the most targeted wideout on the browns team
Oh yea 2007 they went 10-6. My bad I thought they made the playoffs. 2 years later Braylon and Winslow were gone and the browns were rebuilding AGAIN! Edwards and Winslow are 100 times better than anyone the browns have now. You don't think colt McCoy would love to have some talent like them to throw to?
Don't be dumb
Don't be that guy that proved you wrong and made you look like an even bigger asshole than we already know you are?
Who wouldn't want to be that guy?
You made my argument for me, this was too easy.
Jones is a #2 guy, on the opposite side of the field as Roddy White. Defenses have to account for not only Roddy White, but Tony Gonzales, Michael Turner and even Harry Douglas. There's a plethora of options available, the defense can't cover everyone. Of course Jones is going to get more yards when they have him run 9's most of the time he's on the field.
Little is a #2 on a team that has no other playmakers. When MoMass doesn't play, Little becomes the #1. Even when MoMass is playing, teams know to key more on Little because he's the only threat there is. Little has nobody to draw the attention away from him, is playing is a much less vertical offense with a much less talented QB, yet still has nearly the same stats as Jones while hugging the bottom of the route tree nearly every play.
It's amusing how little you actually know about football.
7 games, 4 starts. 14 receptions. 172 yards. 0 TDs.
12 games (as a STer), 3 starts. 18 receptions. 226 yards. 1 TD.
12 games, 12 starts. 56 receptions. 569 yards. 10.2 AVG YPC. 2 TDs. In a one TE system.
12 games, 10 starts. 35 receptions. 399 yards. 11.4 AVG YPC. 2 TDs. In a 3 TE system.
100 times better, huh? You're a fucking idiot. Go back to D&D, pussycat.
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