Why We Need A Qb

Tour2ma

Now I am starting to think we should take at least one QB in every round... maybe one will end up being THE one...

@carlos said:

2010 Offensive line rankings in pass protection

Colts-#1 Packers=#5 Saints=#3 Pats=#11

Do you see the correlation on the other side of the coin?

Sure a line is important, but all those teams have QB's that:

- are pretty fair at reading D's, making line calls and/ or calling audibles;

- have quick releases; and

- are nimble in the pocket.

The QB goes far in determining his line's chances of success in any given play... run or pass...

@brownindian said:
The same Colts with the same O Line and without Peyton Manning and an unproven QB = worst team this year.

You mean Painter hasn't absorbed all the positive experience of bench warming behind a great QB on a great offense like Flynn has in GB???

@cantonlegend said:
Stick with the proven commodity in colt who is still growing and learning

While I do agree with the "commodity" part. "Proven"? Not so much... It doesn't really go with "growing and learning" does it?

@typicalbrowns said:
People need to stfu about rg3

It's called a F-O-R-U-M... People post O-P-I-N-I-O-N-S... People D-I-S-A-G-R-E-E...

@mr.-t said:
We need to get all the pieces in place then look for a QB.

Seems to me that by the time we got to the last piece, the first would have announced their retirement and we'd have to start all over again.

But that's me... and I've never been to GM school either...

@typicalbrowns said:
The browns will not waste a no 4 pick on a QB.

Hopefully we won't "waste" any pick on any position, but if (and, yes, it's a very big if) the #4 could get us Luck or P. Manning, I'm pretty sure I'd "risk" it... Wouldn't you?

@carlos said:
If you really watch it you see that Holmgren says repeatedly that he believes in what he has with Colt... As well, he mentions that he believes that Colt can/could be the guy to build the franchise around... Holmgren acknowledges that he likes to bring in a QB every year to promote competition and find the best depth available, but that he believes in the players he has and expects whoever is starting to play well. Then, when Heckert is pointedly asked if theyll likely go after a QB in the draft to pay "big money" to start for the Browns he says its not likely its the way theyll go, but that its still early.

First, Holmgren drafted Colt.... spent a third round pick on him (a fairly valuable pick), so what else would he say? "We're just marking time with Colt, if I had it to do over again..." is not really an option is it?

Second, everything, including the Colt comments, is generic GM-speak 101... It's like Paul was sitting next to 'Crash' Davis in the back of the bus on the ride home from Pittsburgh...

Tim Couch Pulls Out

Carlos, I was just messing with you.

I hope beyond all hope Colt can be the guy, but from what has been shown so far, it's apparent he can't be. The lack of talent around him notwithstanding, he makes bad reads and doesn't pull the trigger downfield as often as he should. Our offense is a dink and dunk offense and the rare times we do try to stretch the field, Colt misses or settles for a check down even if he's working against single coverage deep.

I just don't want to have another potential Pro Bowler slip past us again, as it seemed to be the trend in the past 10 years.

"It seemed to be" sounds like "Hasheem Thabeet"

Tim Couch Pulls Out

And jrb, I do remember that.

Donte fucking Stallworth. In hindsight, not even worth the argument, as he sucked anyway.

choco

@carlos said:

Honestly its pretty cool watching Holmgren talk about football because he really teaches when he speaks. I would love to see him coach an NFL team today. This press-conference leaves me excited for the future of Browns football if they are willing to stay the course with this guy. In a lot of ways, he reminds me of Parcells with the Cowboys.

except when he's combative and condescending. yeah, he's a real peach.

and while saying he likes colt, i dont think you saw an endorsement that he'll be anything beyond a clipboard holder next year.

so try not to take comments so seriously in the silly season.

Bills-n-Browns-Fan

@tour2ma said:

Now I am starting to think we should take at least one QB in every round... maybe one will end up being THE one...

Sure a line is important, but all those teams have QB's that:

- are pretty fair at reading D's, making line calls and/ or calling audibles;

- have quick releases; and

- are nimble in the pocket.

The QB goes far in determining his line's chances of success in any given play... run or pass...

You mean Painter hasn't absorbed all the positive experience of bench warming behind a great QB on a great offense like Flynn has in GB???

While I do agree with the "commodity" part. "Proven"? Not so much... It doesn't really go with "growing and learning" does it?

It's called a F-O-R-U-M... People post O-P-I-N-I-O-N-S... People D-I-S-A-G-R-E-E...

Seems to me that by the time we got to the last piece, the first would have announced their retirement and we'd have to start all over again.

But that's me... and I've never been to GM school either...

Hopefully we won't "waste" any pick on any position, but if (and, yes, it's a very big if) the #4 could get us Luck or P. Manning, I'm pretty sure I'd "risk" it... Wouldn't you?

First, Holmgren drafted Colt.... spent a third round pick on him (a fairly valuable pick), so what else would he say? "We're just marking time with Colt, if I had it to do over again..." is not really an option is it?

Second, everything, including the Colt comments, is generic GM-speak 101... It's like Paul was sitting next to 'Crash' Davis in the back of the bus on the ride home from Pittsburgh...

Dude...literally you should just name yourself logic...I mean you can actually form an opinion and back it up, but can agree with multiple ones at once...

WebsterSlaughter

@carlos said:

lol youre a dick dude i was just posting up some relevant stuff to read. heres some more. . .its the press conference with heckert and holmgren again.

http://www.cleveland...2b-e80d1cc1ef99

If you really watch it you see that Holmgren says repeatedly that he believes in what he has with Colt and acknowledges that from the outsiders perspective its easy to base a QB's worth on how the team fared, record-wise. As well, he mentions that he believes that Colt can/could be the guy to build the franchise around but he's not ready to anoint him just yet. He also mentions that the QB needs to have some protection and someone to throw the ball to. Holmgren acknowledges that he likes to bring in a QB every year to promote competition and find the best depth available, but that he believes in the players he has and expects whoever is starting to play well. Then, when Heckert is pointedly asked if theyll likely go after a QB in the draft to pay "big money" to start for the Browns he says its not likely its the way theyll go, but that its still early.

By all reasonable accounts, the Browns FO believes in Colt and acknowledges the fact that they seek to draft with other positions in mind, primarily, but will not pass up the opportunity to bring in talent at the QB position to compete. This is all in the first 5-10 minutes of the video. The QB discussion is the first they have.

You don't open up a QB competition if you believe in the guy. Obviously they don't believe in Colt yet. If they did he would be named undisputed starter just like he was to begin the season.

? jparsh

@websterslaughter said:

You don't open up a QB competition if you believe in the guy. Obviously they don't believe in Colt yet. If they did he would be named undisputed starter just like he was to begin the season.

I tried explaining this to a friend today. He's a huge Colt lover, while I'm not a Colt hater, I realize what he is, a decent QB who will never go further than divisional playoffs.

He is certain that the Browns will draft a QB in the 3rd or 4th round just to give the perception of a competition but Colt will ultimately be the guy. I told him just what you said, you don't open up competition on your franchise guy. Cam Newton isn't in a competition this off season, Aaron Rogers isn't in a QB competition. I don't know what people don't get, he sucked on his own accord. Doesn't matter who was around him. He must be judged on HIS performance which can be broken down through the film. You can see his throws, his choices, his reads. I'm quite positive that the coaches don't look at dropped passes and decide from that, so his lack of talent around him are a moot point.

What Colt supporters are telling me is that if we had a pro bowl O-line, 3 super star WR's, a 1,200 yard rusher and a coordinator who makes the perfect call everytime then Colt would be a good QB. I'm pretty sure I'd be a pretty good QB if I had all of that. What they fail to understand is that when you have a top tier QB he looks good no matter who's on his team. When he's surrounded by all those pieces they become a team like the Patriots and Packers.

Nw220

jparsh said:

I tried explaining this to a friend today. He's a huge Colt lover, while I'm not a Colt hater, I realize what he is, a decent QB who will never go further than divisional playoffs.

He is certain that the Browns will draft a QB in the 3rd or 4th round just to give the perception of a competition but Colt will ultimately be the guy. I told him just what you said, you don't open up competition on your franchise guy. Cam Newton isn't in a competition this off season, Aaron Rogers isn't in a QB competition. I don't know what people don't get, he sucked on his own accord. Doesn't matter who was around him. He must be judged on HIS performance which can be broken down through the film. You can see his throws, his choices, his reads. I'm quite positive that the coaches don't look at dropped passes and decide from that, so his lack of talent around him are a moot point.

What Colt supporters are telling me is that if we had a pro bowl O-line, 3 super star WR's, a 1,200 yard rusher and a coordinator who makes the perfect call everytime then Colt would be a good QB. I'm pretty sure I'd be a pretty good QB if I had all of that. What they fail to understand is that when you have a top tier QB he looks good no matter who's on his team. When he's surrounded by all those pieces they become a team like the Patriots and Packers.

Excatly

calfoxwc

What they fail to understand is that when you have a top tier QB he looks good no matter who's on his team J

*********************************

Nope. Archie Manning was a star qb, a super player. But he was drafted 2nd overall by the Saints.

He got the hell beaten out of him because of a pitiful surrounding cast.

It took eight years of drafting to get the offense to where he could be successful.

From Wikipedia:

"His record as a starter was 35–101–3 (26.3%), the worst in NFL history among QBs with at least 100 starts."

I keep forgetting the qb who was drafted by the old Colts. He was called the "Thoroughbred" sp? on the cover of Sports Illustrated.

But he got the hell beaten out of him, too. He was also a great player.

when Peyton Mannings' offensive line got badly overmatched, he threw four ints in a playoff game.

It's a team game. No great qb can be great with no open wr's, no pass protection, and no running game.

It does not work.

TypicalBrowns

Football is one of the sports that literally is all TEAM oriented. No way a QB looks good if the receivers drop the ball, the line doesn't block, and the running backs are injured. No way.

A QB can throw for 400 yds and 3 tds, but lose if the kicker misses the field goal to tie as time expires. It's all about the team. Look at the bengals with dalton. They have 4 very solid recievers and a pro bowl rookie receiver. Hence why dalton is in the playoffs.

To think a different QB on our same shitty offense would change anything is silly. Upgrade the tools around the QB, so then he simply gets the ball to them.

? jparsh

So why does a QB like Peyton Manning lead a 10-6 team that changes to a 3-13 team when he's out? How does Cam Newton turn a 2 win team into an exciting 6 win team in one year? I guess QB's have nothing to do with it.

TypicalBrowns

Let's put Kerry Collins in to lead the colts this year!

Then Curtis painter! Hence the 3-13 record with a QB that's too old and one that's the back up to a back up to a back up.

And jimmy clausen for the panthers before newton didn't do much. He was awful actually.

To say the browns are the same scenario is wrong though. The panthers and colts have offensive weapons. Just extremely shitty qbs. I mean so bad that the offense couldn't do anything. Colt isn't the same way. The browns O was all around bad. All year.

.

? jparsh

@typicalbrowns said:

Let's put Kerry Collins in to lead the colts this year!

Then Curtis painter! Hence the 3-13 record with a QB that's too old and one that's the back up to a back up to a back up.

And jimmy clausen for the panthers before newton didn't do much. He was awful actually.

To say the browns are the same scenario is wrong though. The panthers and colts have offensive weapons. Just extremely shitty qbs. I mean so bad that the offense couldn't do anything. Colt isn't the same way. The browns O was all around bad. All year.

.

So in other words you pick and choose which ways you look at things. Kinda like a christian picking out the parts of the bible they agree with and are OK with following.

In one breath we have you saying that a bad QB's were the reason the Panthers and Colts did poorly...Ok, I can agree with that. In fact I'm the one that said bad QB's were the cause of their crappy teams. But then in the next breath you try to give some excuses of why Colt isn't the same way. Nobody can justify Colt as a good QB, all they can do is say the team was bad all the way around. I said it before and I'll say it again. He is not, nor will he be judged on the performance of the team. His film will be looked at and his accuracy, decisions, reads and so on and so on will be judged. And apparently it's already been judged. And it was decided that he's not the future QB. So while there is a legit debate for whether or not the Browns will take Griffin or not, and there's a debate whether or not Griffin will be good or not, I'll buy that. But I won't buy anything that defends Colt. He's already been deemed not worthy of being our starting QB, case closed.

CantonLegend

jparsh said:

So why does a QB like Peyton Manning lead a 10-6 team that changes to a 3-13 team when he's out? How does Cam Newton turn a 2 win team into an exciting 6 win team in one year? I guess QB's have nothing to do with it.

The colts lost several players to injured reserve including Dallas Clark, one of the best receivers of this generation

The panthers picked up a new defensive minded coach and 2 of the best TEs the league has seen recently

What do both of those examples have in common? The TE situation. A TE is a QBs best friend and having a good TE to check down to or catch the tough passes over the middle is a huge help

Nobody mentions any of that tho. All you see is a new QB...if you paid any attention to other teams instead of just listening to what espn tells you then you'd know that the colts lost players and the panthers gained players

calfoxwc

So why does a QB like Peyton Manning lead a 10-6 team that changes to a 3-13 team when he's out? How does Cam Newton turn a 2 win team into an exciting 6 win team in one year? I guess QB's have nothing to do with it.

************************************************

Look at their wr's, offensive line (especially bookend tackles), and rb's.

Peyton ran the offense with most of the parts in place. Sure, the next qb had trouble. With other injuries, and he never

was allowed to take many snaps, etc.

But Manning wouldn't have taken this last year's team to the playoffs. Wr's are getting old. Wayne is near retirement.

Peyton was the master glue that kept the offense working with enough parts.

Peyton would not be able to keep the Browns' offense together. Not enough parts. Wayne is by far a better wr

that the Browns have had since 99, I think, except for Little next year.

calfoxwc

Look to yahoo and look at the Colts' oline this year. Their two rb's got 30-40 yards a game?

Two or three of their offensive linemen were UFA. They knew they'd have to rebuild their oline.

Last year, they drafted a LT. Too little, too late.

Go to yahoo and look at the surrounding cast, especially the bookend offensive tackles Cam has.

htownbrown

Successful teams build the offense around the QB. Holmgren himself has implied this many times.

Holmgren basically said he would bring in some competition and that the decision wouldn't take long. That McCoy didn't earn the job. He also keeps talking about how it takes 3-4-5 years after you find the guy.

He called the Rams on draft day and the Panthers too. He seems to be itching for a QB. I'm sure he'll call the Colts too.

There is only a few acceptable excuses for not drafting RG3.

A. They get a young guy with real potential in FA.

B. Blackmon was there and they have a 'better than Mccoy' option later in the draft.

C. They get a lot of picks and have a 'better than McCoy' option later in the draft.

Holmgren's success here is entirely hinging on his QB expertise. If he can't evaluate McCoy after 1 1/2 seasons then he isn't an expert.

? jparsh

@cantonlegend said:

The colts lost several players to injured reserve including Dallas Clark, one of the best receivers of this generation

The panthers picked up a new defensive minded coach and 2 of the best TEs the league has seen recently

What do both of those examples have in common? The TE situation. A TE is a QBs best friend and having a good TE to check down to or catch the tough passes over the middle is a huge help

Nobody mentions any of that tho. All you see is a new QB...if you paid any attention to other teams instead of just listening to what espn tells you then you'd know that the colts lost players and the panthers gained players

Dallas Clark is one of the best receivers of this generation????? and you may want to check your facts again because Clark played more games for this past 3 win season then he did in their 10 game season the previous year. LOL You have to be a troll looking to cause trouble because nobody is that stupid. And if there was one shining spot for the Browns it was our TE situation. Watson, Moore and Smith coming into his own was a great combination.

Please don't respond to any of my posts anymore, I'm willing to talk to serious people, but not people making stupid statements on purpose just to get a rise out of others.

CantonLegend

jparsh said:

Dallas Clark is one of the best receivers of this generation????? and you may want to check your facts again because Clark played more games for this past 3 win season then he did in their 10 game season the previous year. LOL You have to be a troll looking to cause trouble because nobody is that stupid. And if there was one shining spot for the Browns it was our TE situation. Watson, Moore and Smith coming into his own was a great combination.

Please don't respond to any of my posts anymore, I'm willing to talk to serious people, but not people making stupid statements on purpose just to get a rise out of others.

Ben Watson is decent. He's no Dallas Clark or Greg Olsen or even Jeremy Shockey for that matter

Not to mention he too was placed on IR so colts options were a group of terrible wideouts, a 3rd string running back and 2 backup tight ends

And that's just a small sample of the issues McCoy was faced with this season.

Indy was also playing with a terrible defense that almost kept them out of the playoffs last year and injuries to guys like Austin collie and Pierre garçon

Not only that but their offensive line was about as good as the browns...which isn't very good

CantonLegend

jparsh said:

Dallas Clark is one of the best receivers of this generation????? and you may want to check your facts again because Clark played more games for this past 3 win season then he did in their 10 game season the previous year. LOL You have to be a troll looking to cause trouble because nobody is that stupid. And if there was one shining spot for the Browns it was our TE situation. Watson, Moore and Smith coming into his own was a great combination.

Please don't respond to any of my posts anymore, I'm willing to talk to serious people, but not people making stupid statements on purpose just to get a rise out of others.

Oh and Dallas Clark is a 2 time all pro tight end based almost solely on his receiving