Mario Williams
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im not saying i want williams....im saying i think you misinterpreted heckerts comments.
the closest thing ive seen to what you are contending is this...
“We don’t want to go out and sign 10 free agents,” Heckert said. “But if there’s a guy that we like, which hopefully there is, we’ll definitely go after him. Free agency is an area where you can get one or two players at positions that can help you. If there’s guys at certain positions, we’ll definitely go after them.”
so, i'd like to see the interviews you are talking about. im trying to understand how you have insight into heckerts plan based of comments and statements that are deliberately misleading and vague.
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price doesn't put us outta the debate. there's few teams with more cap space than us.
Agreed but if you listen to Heckert his post season interviews he has stated he dosent wanna go after big F/A signings, he pointed out that they would be looking at what they have been doing the last few seasons and continue in that manner ala building through the draft..
This does not mean i dont think they will sign a Big F/A, i hope they would i am simply stated an opinon.
Agreed but if you listen to Heckert his post season interviews he has stated he dosent wanna go after big F/A signings, he pointed out that they would be looking at what they have been doing the last few seasons and continue in that manner ala building through the draft..
This does not mean i dont think they will sign a Big F/A, i hope they would i am simply stated an opinon.
Yea, because we are on Holmgren's 20 year plan
Sooner or later, they are going to have to bring in some big name free-agents. I would rather it be sooner with a guy like Willams or DeSean Jackson. -
I'll post the interviews when i get a min, all he said was they were gonna stick to there format which was what they had been doing the past few years taking players that they thought could contribute but at the right price...He didnt say they wouldnt bring in someone but didnt think you could bring high priced F/As to build a team the right way..
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He has high awareness and play recognition as
a DE but has not made the transition to the OLB. He struggles in zone coverage and is not in a
position to take full advantage of his skills.
His instincts are good with enough moves both power and finesse to be
very effective.
He will be highly sought after as a free agent and get a
nice payday. He is not what the Browns
will go after but exactly what they need.
Very seldom can you get a first overall pick that has been successful as
a free agent. The Browns should but probably won't get this one.
I would not put it past them to do so - pending him resigning with the texans- after all wasn't it green bay with holmgren as coach that brought in reggie white after 9 seasons with the eagles..... another possible option michael bush is also a free agent assuming they let hillis go does he become viable?
I would not put it past them to do so - pending him resigning with the texans- after all wasn't it green bay with holmgren as coach that brought in reggie white after 9 seasons with the eagles..... another possible option michael bush is also a free agent assuming they let hillis go does he become viable?
You have to remember when Green Bay picked up Reggie White they had a quarterback by the name of Bret Farve.
Williams would be a serious upgrade over Mitchell, but the defense still has holes that need to be addressed.
Of course, we can throw the bank at Williams, but my bet is he's going to resign with the Texans to get his shot at a Super Bowl.
I'd much rather get 2-3 solid contributors than put all our eggs in one (very expensive) basket. Say guys like (last year) Jonathan Joseph who aren't going to command $50+ million contracts.
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I'll post the interviews when i get a min, all he said was they were gonna stick to there format which was what they had been doing the past few years taking players that they thought could contribute but at the right price...He didnt say they wouldnt bring in someone but didnt think you could bring high priced F/As to build a team the right way..
I'll post the interviews when i get a min, all he said was they were gonna stick to there format which was what they had been doing the past few years taking players that they thought could contribute but at the right price...He didnt say they wouldnt bring in someone but didnt think you could bring high priced F/As to build a team the right way..
YOu are correct. They did state that the Draft is how they are going to build this team.. F/A isn't out of the question, but the Draft is how they are primarily going to do it.
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I would not put it past them to do so - pending him resigning with the texans- after all wasn't it green bay with holmgren as coach that brought in reggie white after 9 seasons with the eagles..... another possible option michael bush is also a free agent assuming they let hillis go does he become viable?
You have to remember when Green Bay picked up Reggie White they had a quarterback by the name of Bret Farve.
Williams would be a serious upgrade over Mitchell, but the defense still has holes that need to be addressed.
Of course, we can throw the bank at Williams, but my bet is he's going to resign with the Texans to get his shot at a Super Bowl.
I'd much rather get 2-3 solid contributors than put all our eggs in one (very expensive) basket. Say guys like (last year) Jonathan Joseph who aren't going to command $50+ million contracts.
You have to remember when Green Bay picked up Reggie White they had a quarterback by the name of Bret Farve.
Williams would be a serious upgrade over Mitchell, but the defense still has holes that need to be addressed.
Of course, we can throw the bank at Williams, but my bet is he's going to resign with the Texans to get his shot at a Super Bowl.
I'd much rather get 2-3 solid contributors than put all our eggs in one (very expensive) basket. Say guys like (last year) Jonathan Joseph who aren't going to command $50+ million contracts.
I don't see what Brett Favre has to do with this. QB's don't play defense.
We don't have a Brett Favre, we don't even have a Brittney Favre. But picking up Mario Williams doesn't affect the moves we make for QB. If anything, it helps out our QB search because picking up a DE through FA frees a draft pick we would have used on DE for a QB. And if we decide to go through the FA route, we have the money to afford both Mario Williams' and Matt Flynn's contracts.
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You have to remember when Green Bay picked up Reggie White they had a quarterback by the name of Bret Farve.
Williams would be a serious upgrade over Mitchell, but the defense still has holes that need to be addressed.
Of course, we can throw the bank at Williams, but my bet is he's going to resign with the Texans to get his shot at a Super Bowl.
I'd much rather get 2-3 solid contributors than put all our eggs in one (very expensive) basket. Say guys like (last year) Jonathan Joseph who aren't going to command $50+ million contracts.
I don't see what Brett Favre has to do with this. QB's don't play defense.
We don't have a Brett Favre, we don't even have a Brittney Favre. But picking up Mario Williams doesn't affect the moves we make for QB. If anything, it helps out our QB search because picking up a DE through FA frees a draft pick we would have used on DE for a QB. And if we decide to go through the FA route, we have the money to afford both Mario Williams' and Matt Flynn's contracts.
I don't see what Brett Favre has to do with this. QB's don't play defense.
We don't have a Brett Favre, we don't even have a Brittney Favre. But picking up Mario Williams doesn't affect the moves we make for QB. If anything, it helps out our QB search because picking up a DE through FA frees a draft pick we would have used on DE for a QB. And if we decide to go through the FA route, we have the money to afford both Mario Williams' and Matt Flynn's contracts.
Totally missing the point I see. Reggie White was the LAST piece of the puzzle, not the stepping stone. Teams reached for the last piece of the puzzle (Asomugah, Julio Jones) and fell flat on their ass last season. The Browns aren't anywhere close talent wise to the Eagles and Falcons- you you want to risk going for the grand Wazoo when it's damn obvious Williams won't put us over the top in 2012? Maybe not even in 2013 when we DON'T have the cap room to sign any quality players. Ever think about THAT?
Flynn, schminn. Go for Drew Brees- give him $28 million Peyton Manning money while you're at it. Sorry- but going for an absolute stud #1 FA will affect everything else you do in free agency. Take a lesson from the hated Steelers- they bring in guys like Williams- like never.
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overpaying either way is bad.....
think the stools are happy about paying timmons 9.1 mil this year? they're 20 mil over the cap as is....and still need room to sign wallace...
i could stomach a williams move cause he's young, but he's not gonna make or break this team.
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Williams is the kind of FA the browns should go for in order to cap off an up and coming defense but something tells me this regime is just as ultra conservative on the financing side of the game as they appear to be on the field...
Not to mention that if houston doesnt resign mario he would likely get equal offers from other places he would rather go..
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What makes anyone think Williams would leave a SB contender for a team that's not a contender? He's already been through playing for Houston while they're not a contender.. I wouldn't waste time.
Avril isn't strong against the run; I'd show the money to Campbell.
Asserting that Cleveland doesn't spend money is gratuitously ignorant and objectively wrong - Steinbach was a giant contract, Bentley was a giant contract, Sheldon Brown was a decently large contract just last year, the linebackers continue to be on pretty big FA deals.
Saving money to spend it smartly on proven talent is BETTER management than blowing a bunch of wild cash on free agents like Dan Snyder.
Instead of Mario Williams, Calais Campbell is the one FA the Browns should go after.
The more labels you have for yourself, the dumber they make you. "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." Paul Brown -
You don't need to build your team through free agency... just don't ignore it completely
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mikeyP72 said:
Completely losing faith in some of you.
Don't go after Mario Williams, yeah, that is really smart.
We'll be fine with Jayme Mitchell or some other second or third rate DE again...
Didn't I tell you he was garbage before the season started? How many people told me no, don't go after Osi or Kiwanuka?
Mitchell is FINE.
I was crazy.
Rolling on the floor right now at the garbage being spewed.
Who said Mitchell was fine? Not me. I do say it would take stupid, insane money to get Williams to leave Houston. Get used to the idea, Mario isn't coming to Cleveland.
Yes upgrading DE opposite Sheard is a priority- but not an $80 million dollar priority.
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mikeyP72 said:
Completely losing faith in some of you.
Don't go after Mario Williams, yeah, that is really smart.
We'll be fine with Jayme Mitchell or some other second or third rate DE again...
Didn't I tell you he was garbage before the season started? How many people told me no, don't go after Osi or Kiwanuka?
Mitchell is FINE.
I was crazy.
Rolling on the floor right now at the garbage being spewed.
Who said Mitchell was fine? Not me. I do say it would take stupid, insane money to get Williams to leave Houston. Get used to the idea, Mario isn't coming to Cleveland.
Yes upgrading DE opposite Sheard is a priority- but not an $80 million dollar priority.
Who said Mitchell was fine? Not me. I do say it would take stupid, insane money to get Williams to leave Houston. Get used to the idea, Mario isn't coming to Cleveland.
Yes upgrading DE opposite Sheard is a priority- but not an $80 million dollar priority.
I don't believe he'll land here either. But that shouldn't be for a lack of trying.
I get we have many missing pieces. I never claimed Mario would be the guy to put us over the top. No defensive end ever is that guy. He's a big name free agent with the stat line to match and with many, MANY miles still left in the tank, who isn't going to command as much as some of the other guys people have clamored for in FA. His contract will still be large, granted, but not so large that we won't have room for other players. In other words, he's probably the best "big name" FA acquisition we could in terms of production/value.
Fact is, we have to spend a certain amount of our cap. Why spend it on five or six shite players as has been the case for the last 6 or 7 years? We're in the position to make drastic leaps this year, with the amount of draft picks we have and the cap room as well. We can finally afford to go for a big fish FA.
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What makes anyone think Williams would leave a SB contender for a team that's not a contender? He's already been through playing for Houston while they're not a contender.. I wouldn't waste time.
Avril isn't strong against the run; I'd show the money to Campbell.
Asserting that Cleveland doesn't spend money is gratuitously ignorant and objectively wrong - Steinbach was a giant contract, Bentley was a giant contract, Sheldon Brown was a decently large contract just last year, the linebackers continue to be on pretty big FA deals.
Saving money to spend it smartly on proven talent is BETTER management than blowing a bunch of wild cash on free agents like Dan Snyder.
Instead of Mario Williams, Calais Campbell is the one FA the Browns should go after.
What makes anyone think Williams would leave a SB contender for a team that's not a contender? He's already been through playing for Houston while they're not a contender.. I wouldn't waste time.
Avril isn't strong against the run; I'd show the money to Campbell.
Asserting that Cleveland doesn't spend money is gratuitously ignorant and objectively wrong - Steinbach was a giant contract, Bentley was a giant contract, Sheldon Brown was a decently large contract just last year, the linebackers continue to be on pretty big FA deals.
Saving money to spend it smartly on proven talent is BETTER management than blowing a bunch of wild cash on free agents like Dan Snyder.
Instead of Mario Williams, Calais Campbell is the one FA the Browns should go after.
The nice rookie year by Brooks Reed ensures the Texans won't bring back MW. They were trying to make Mario an OLB in a 3-4 system before he got hurt. That's too expensive of a project. Add to that, as talented as he is, he has looked lazy at times. The Texans have a top 5 defense without him........he's not going back.
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All you guys who don't want Williams are nuts. Williams is a stud, at a position of need and at 26 in the prime of his career.
He could be the guy who puts an up and coming defense over the top (along with drafting an outside backer as well and retaining DQ)He could give the defense an idenity. Someone opposing teams have to account for.
As far as you guys who are thinking why would he leave the Texans for the Browns ... It is simple really. Money. At 26 he is looking more for a huge payday then a championship. Plus he doesn't want to be a 3-4 outside backer he wants to be where he is comfortable in the 4-3 at DE.
I say grab him. I would do whatever it took to get him. And even if they got him I would still even pursue trading with the Giants for Osi. Osi, Sheard, and Williams would cause some serious pass rush.
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The draft class at DE is pretty deep. Nick Perry, Melvin Ingram, Whitney Mercilus, or Brandon Jenkins could be available with our second 1st rounder or our second rounder. These are players that would solidify our d line.
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The draft class at DE is pretty deep. Nick Perry, Melvin Ingram, Whitney Mercilus, or Brandon Jenkins could be available with our second 1st rounder or our second rounder. These are players that would solidify our d line.
The draft class at DE is pretty deep. Nick Perry, Melvin Ingram, Whitney Mercilus, or Brandon Jenkins could be available with our second 1st rounder or our second rounder. These are players that would solidify our d line.
Very true. I would not be upset if we landed any of those prospects. I'd include Vinny Curry in the discussion as well.
But we still need to acquire some FA's. Williams is probably the best value we'll get for the price, and that would leave us to address another need with the draft pick we would have used for DE.
Either way, I'm happy.
We're nearing the point where we can stop adding middle-quality depth FA's and pull the trigger on a more influential "gamebreaker" type FA. It's scary to think about, but it's the truth.
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I mean I see the point Hoorta is making. When I think of paying insane money to a FA from another that should be the guy that puts a playoff contender over the hump to a super bowl. We have a lot of cap room but Mario Williams is going to get a Demarcus Ware esque contract according to most things i've seen (6 years, 79 mil). That's ALOT of money to throw at one guy on a 4-12 level football team. I'd be a lot more intrigued if I felt DE was the last piece to the puzzle to make the team contenders, but that just isn't true. I think we're one solid draft away from really being able to go out and get the top guys. I realistically see him getting the franchise tag though. Sure Brooks Reed looked good but Mario is a top 2-3 DE and defensive player in this league. It's tough though because the Texans have to consider Foster re-signing and Schaub who's up for a new contract this next season.
I also really really like the DE class in this years draft. There's 3-4 guys that we can easily nab with our second 1st round pick or 2nd round pick that are going to IMO be good starters in the NFL (ingram, mericulus, perry).
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I mean I see the point Hoorta is making. When I think of paying insane money to a FA from another that should be the guy that puts a playoff contender over the hump to a super bowl. We have a lot of cap room but Mario Williams is going to get a Demarcus Ware esque contract according to most things i've seen (6 years, 79 mil). That's ALOT of money to throw at one guy on a 4-12 level football team. I'd be a lot more intrigued if I felt DE was the last piece to the puzzle to make the team contenders, but that just isn't true. I think we're one solid draft away from really being able to go out and get the top guys. I realistically see him getting the franchise tag though. Sure Brooks Reed looked good but Mario is a top 2-3 DE and defensive player in this league. It's tough though because the Texans have to consider Foster re-signing and Schaub who's up for a new contract this next season.
I also really really like the DE class in this years draft. There's 3-4 guys that we can easily nab with our second 1st round pick or 2nd round pick that are going to IMO be good starters in the NFL (ingram, mericulus, perry).
I mean I see the point Hoorta is making. When I think of paying insane money to a FA from another that should be the guy that puts a playoff contender over the hump to a super bowl. We have a lot of cap room but Mario Williams is going to get a Demarcus Ware esque contract according to most things i've seen (6 years, 79 mil). That's ALOT of money to throw at one guy on a 4-12 level football team. I'd be a lot more intrigued if I felt DE was the last piece to the puzzle to make the team contenders, but that just isn't true. I think we're one solid draft away from really being able to go out and get the top guys. I realistically see him getting the franchise tag though. Sure Brooks Reed looked good but Mario is a top 2-3 DE and defensive player in this league. It's tough though because the Texans have to consider Foster re-signing and Schaub who's up for a new contract this next season.
I also really really like the DE class in this years draft. There's 3-4 guys that we can easily nab with our second 1st round pick or 2nd round pick that are going to IMO be good starters in the NFL (ingram, mericulus, perry).
Exactly- you evaluate the DEs in this draft class, and if you think they're worthy- you take one of them and don't blow 80 million of cap room on one player. Mario Williams is not going to turn the Browns into a Super Bowl team in 2012- not without another linebacker or two, a solid corner opposite Joe Haden, and someone better at saftey opposite Ward than Young or Adams. That's not even counting the massive holes that have to be plugged on the offensive side. Can't be done in one year.
As I've said before- I'm not averse to spending money on FAs- but do it INTELLIGENTLY. How about spending $20-30 million on a stud FA RT instead? I'm well past the ohhh, ahh, gotta have this guy stage.
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