Let's Get Ready To Rumble! Colt Mccoy Vs. Robert Griffin Iii
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You think the overall talent on Baylor around RGIII was the same as the overall talent around Colt on Texas? TEXAS!
I'm not here to debate what we should do with our pick. I'm just saying RGIII and Colt are clearly not the same player.
You think the overall talent on Baylor around RGIII was the same as the overall talent around Colt on Texas? TEXAS!
I'm not here to debate what we should do with our pick. I'm just saying RGIII and Colt are clearly not the same player.
You're right.
One was an established winner at every level.
The other has one year of stats to his name.
They both suck.
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Zombo said:
Graham Harrell? Really? He's not one fifth the athlete Griffin is, Harrell wasn't even considered much of a pro prospect at all.
Zombo
Bernie Kosar wasn't much of an athlete either.
Akili Smith was.
Pick what side of him you want to endorse. When someone brings up the fact that he can run, you quote his passing numbers and say he's a passer. When I bring up someone with better numbers, you bring up the fact he can run.
We get it, you like RG3. I liked him too, back when he was known as Troy Smith.
He could turn out to be a fantastic player, sure. But I can guarantee nobody would be considering him with either of our first round picks if the Newton didn't have the success that he had last season. And that's why I'm against us taking him.
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RGIII is an underrated passer though. A lot of people see a black QB that can run and want to say "Oh, he must only be able to run"
RGIII and Newton are definitely not the same player. If people want to paint over all running QBs like that then Denard has a shot at the top pick, right? What is he wins the Heisman? Maybe they'll think he's mini Newton? ???
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RGIII is an underrated passer though. A lot of people see a black QB that can run and want to say "Oh, he must only be able to run"
RGIII and Newton are definitely not the same player. If people want to paint over all running QBs like that then Denard has a shot at the top pick, right? What is he wins the Heisman? Maybe they'll think he's mini Newton? ???
RGIII is an underrated passer though. A lot of people see a black QB that can run and want to say "Oh, he must only be able to run"
RGIII and Newton are definitely not the same player. If people want to paint over all running QBs like that then Denard has a shot at the top pick, right? What is he wins the Heisman? Maybe they'll think he's mini Newton? ???
I don't see that much of a difference between Denard and RG3, honestly.
The only difference is that Baylor played against much worse defenses, and that RG3 has a cannon for an arm. I've yet to see him throw to someone who wasn't wide open.
You're right, RG3 and Cam are not the same player. In college, Cam was asked to play against top of the line defenses and make all the sorts of NFL throws you'd like to see in a college player. RG3, on the other hand, played against only two top 50 defenses last season. He did, however, play against 8 defenses ranked in the bottom 30, including the worst defense in the FBS in Kansas. Against those teams, he had wide open receivers and more than ample enough time. In his "highlight reels", he's never shown throwing to a receiver who the defense even thought about covering.
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don't see that much of a difference between Denard and RG3, honestly
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really? ..........
really?!?
RGIII's passing ability is much better than Denard's. RGIII is a more complete passer. RGIII is going to get to be a QB in the NFL, Denard might... I'd be happy if the Browns drafted Denard to be Cribbs version 2.0
Ja.brill Peppers - Cleveland Brown OldBrownsFan, on 02 Jun 2017 - 5:09PM said: "No you are not the work of the devil but you are deceived by the devil." Who's got it better than us? Nooooobody! -
RGIII is an underrated passer though. A lot of people see a black QB that can run and want to say "Oh, he must only be able to run"
RGIII and Newton are definitely not the same player. If people want to paint over all running QBs like that then Denard has a shot at the top pick, right? What is he wins the Heisman? Maybe they'll think he's mini Newton? ???
I don't see that much of a difference between Denard and RG3, honestly.
The only difference is that Baylor played against much worse defenses, and that RG3 has a cannon for an arm. I've yet to see him throw to someone who wasn't wide open.
You're right, RG3 and Cam are not the same player. In college, Cam was asked to play against top of the line defenses and make all the sorts of NFL throws you'd like to see in a college player. RG3, on the other hand, played against only two top 50 defenses last season. He did, however, play against 8 defenses ranked in the bottom 30, including the worst defense in the FBS in Kansas. Against those teams, he had wide open receivers and more than ample enough time. In his "highlight reels", he's never shown throwing to a receiver who the defense even thought about covering.
I don't see that much of a difference between Denard and RG3, honestly.
The only difference is that Baylor played against much worse defenses, and that RG3 has a cannon for an arm. I've yet to see him throw to someone who wasn't wide open.
You're right, RG3 and Cam are not the same player. In college, Cam was asked to play against top of the line defenses and make all the sorts of NFL throws you'd like to see in a college player. RG3, on the other hand, played against only two top 50 defenses last season. He did, however, play against 8 defenses ranked in the bottom 30, including the worst defense in the FBS in Kansas. Against those teams, he had wide open receivers and more than ample enough time. In his "highlight reels", he's never shown throwing to a receiver who the defense even thought about covering.
Put the pipe down my friend, they arent even comparable
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don't see that much of a difference between Denard and RG3, honestly
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................................................
..................................
really? ..........
really?!?
RGIII's passing ability is much better than Denard's. RGIII is a more complete passer. RGIII is going to get to be a QB in the NFL, Denard might... I'd be happy if the Browns drafted Denard to be Cribbs version 2.0
..................................................
................................................
..................................
really? ..........
really?!?
RGIII's passing ability is much better than Denard's. RGIII is a more complete passer. RGIII is going to get to be a QB in the NFL, Denard might... I'd be happy if the Browns drafted Denard to be Cribbs version 2.0
So you single out the only opinion in my statement and then counter it with your own set of opinions.
RG3 may be a better passer. I only say may. As I said before, his numbers were against weak defenses and his guys were nearly always wide open. He rarely has shown the ability to "throw a man open" or even consider throwing to a man who's even decently covered.
Let's not even consider the fact that his plays were fed to him at the line of scrimmage or that he's never played in a pro style offense, or that he's not used to taking snaps under center, reading defenses, and calling audibles. Let's forget that he's undersized for a guy of his skill set, and that he rarely got hit in college, which leads people to question his durability once he gets to the pro level. Let's not even consider the fact that he hasn't had a single highlight from a snow game, or that he might not even know how to throw a ball in windy December weather.
Not even considering those things, I still wouldn't draft him at 4.
He has tremendous athleticism, I will give him that. He also seems to be a stand-up guy, and a legitimate intellectual being. But, as I've said before, nobody would be considering him this high if it weren't for Cam...and that alone is enough for me to pass.
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Those were all valid points.
I'm just amazed you though Denard and RGIII were the same.
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Those were all valid points.
I'm just amazed you though Denard and RGIII were the same.
I honestly do. I think RG3 has a much bigger arm, and doesn't tend to run as much.
If Denard's receivers were as wide-open as RG3's were even half the time, there'd be a completely difference discussion going on.
People are so quick to shit on Matt Flynn, saying he's only in a good system and that's the reason he put up those good numbers. When RG3 got knocked out in the Texas Tech game, his backup came in and threw for more yards in half a quarter than RG3 did in the entire first half. The backup QB ended up going 9 for 12 for 151 yards, 2 TD's and a rushing TD in one half.
To me, that sounds like a system.
I'm awesome, and I fuck dolphins. Ghoolie 12/2/2012: I have absolutely no skills, training or pride -
Edit: ^ that's supposed to be a Browns jersey with the name Robinson and the number 16 on the back...
I think we all want to see that right?
So don't draft a QB. Draft a bunch of pieces for Colt. Honestly the thought is getting RGIII sounds really exciting, and I think that is clouding people's judgement. That doesn't mean it couldn't work, but that "wow" factor helps RGIIIs case. I'll be just as happy landing some big name WR in FA though or having a fantastic draft. We'll see how this plays out, but it seems like the Browns can't lose here. There will be a good option no matter what happens.
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Edit: ^ that's supposed to be a Browns jersey with the name Robinson and the number 16 on the back...
I think we all want to see that right?
So don't draft a QB. Draft a bunch of pieces for Colt. Honestly the thought is getting RGIII sounds really exciting, and I think that is clouding people's judgement. That doesn't mean it couldn't work, but that "wow" factor helps RGIIIs case. I'll be just as happy landing some big name WR in FA though or having a fantastic draft. We'll see how this plays out, but it seems like the Browns can't lose here. There will be a good option no matter what happens.
Edit: ^ that's supposed to be a Browns jersey with the name Robinson and the number 16 on the back...
I think we all want to see that right?
So don't draft a QB. Draft a bunch of pieces for Colt. Honestly the thought is getting RGIII sounds really exciting, and I think that is clouding people's judgement. That doesn't mean it couldn't work, but that "wow" factor helps RGIIIs case. I'll be just as happy landing some big name WR in FA though or having a fantastic draft. We'll see how this plays out, but it seems like the Browns can't lose here. There will be a good option no matter what happens.
+1
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While I think RG3 is a Jeff Fisher type QB, I don't see Jeff Fisher drafting RG3, because frankly the ownership invested alot in Sam Bradford. I think he has to play Bradford for 1/2 years before reloading a high pick on the QB spot.
Second, I don't think RG3 is a Holmgren type QB. Holmgren wants someone to run the WCO and RG3 may be too mobile for him to fit that prototype. Further, I think Holmgren wants to give Colt another chance with some weapons. I see Cleveland taking a WO or trading down for more picks.
Endymion said:
... I don't think RG3 is a Holmgren type QB.I don't see how anyone can say this given PH's obvious love for Seneca.
I think that it must be that our receivers are just to slow for Colt to throw to. 45MPH... with the accuracy... on a boat!
Amusing clip... but seriously... a 15 yd lob doesn't prove anything.
Here is the problem: you get these Texas schools that produce these QBs with all these gawdy numbers.
Like David Klingler, Andre Ware, Case Keesum, Graham Harrell, Kevin Kolb, even Colt McCoy etcetcetc. and are they are are numbers compilers. They don't make it in the NFL. I am concerned that RGIII is just one of those.
To be honest, I would prefer a Pac 10, Big 10, SEC QB....they seem to have a more proven track record.
Four U of H QB's, one Texas Tech and Colt? Reminds me of Sesame Street's:
"One of these things is not like the others..."
As for the new comparisons for RG... I agree dragging in Robinson and Harrell is ludicrous. Smith? I liked Smith, and thought he had a chance and was certainly worth the shot BLT took. He's the most like RG of the three, but not all that close. Good luck to him at his rebirth in PTG... just not against the Browns.
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Zombo said:
Someone called him a "running quarterback". I pointed out that "running quarterbacks" don't throw for 4,300 yards ... to which your brilliant retort was "than what's the difference between him and Graham Harrell?"
If I have to explain the difference between Griffin and Harrell as pro prospects to you, then you don't really belong in this discussion.
BTW, I hated Troy Smith as a prospect and so did the 32 teams that passed on him six times. I loved Bernie Kosar as a prospect and so did the Browns who gave up their first round pick for him.
So I have no idea where you are taking this unless it is a black/white thing or you just can't read a scouting report or ever watched Griffin play.
Can't figure out your angle here other than when I proved he wasn't a running quarterback dropped all the way down to Graham effing Harrell as a comparsion.
Z
I have watched him play, the problem is that you haven't. Instead of searching YouTube for "RG3 highlights", go back and watch some full games for this season and last season as well...you know, back before anyone had even heard of Robert Griffin III and you were still clamoring over Jake Locker or Colin Karpernick to be our savior.
I brought up Graham Harrell to show that even those who have thrown for an inordinate amount of yards in college are not always "passing quarterbacks" more than they are products of a system. Especially in the Big 12.
As for your "running quarterback" angle, you wouldn't even be considering him at 4 if he couldn't run a 4.3 40, so don't try and play that down. If that were the case, how would he be any different from Troy Smith or Jamarcus Russell or Kyle Boller or Derek Anderson (minus 4 inches). Don't act like your boner for Griffin isn't at least half due to the fact that he's a sprinter.
Instead of regurgitating the dreg Adam Schefter or Mel Kiper farts out, go back and actually watch a full game or two. And make sure when you do watch them, they're not playing one of the 9 or 10 teams they played this season with defenses ranked in the bottom 45.
This is Brady Quinn all over again. Once ESPN finds someone to latch onto, there's at least 3 or 4 guys in here who claim to be "scouting wizards" and that not drafting said person is going to be the worst thing for us.
Now, if you want to try and refute any of the facts I've previously listed with other facts instead of latching onto the words "Graham Harrell" or "Troy Smith", I'll be waiting.
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hey i'm not debating whether or not griffin is good or not. i think we can all agree he's a good qb and a great athlete. i'm saying don't pick another qb this year.
i had a debate friday while hitting the hooch with some friends both are huge football fans (one a stooler fan the other a giants fan). the stooler fag mentioned a mock draft having the browns picking RGlll. they both were drooling over this guy, then it was my turn to talk and told them we just drafted a qb a couple of years ago, give him a shot blah blah blah, let's see what he can do with some protection another WR and a healthy running game. maybe trade down and pick up another pick. browns have a lot of holes to fill. if mccoy shits the bed this year given those things i just listed then ship him back to texas.
like i've said before there'll be a crop of another college QBs coming into the draft next year that people will be getting wood about. just wait, even if we do draft a qb!!!.
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Zombo said:
Someone called him a "running quarterback". I pointed out that "running quarterbacks" don't throw for 4,300 yards ... to which your brilliant retort was "than what's the difference between him and Graham Harrell?"
If I have to explain the difference between Griffin and Harrell as pro prospects to you, then you don't really belong in this discussion.
BTW, I hated Troy Smith as a prospect and so did the 32 teams that passed on him six times. I loved Bernie Kosar as a prospect and so did the Browns who gave up their first round pick for him.
So I have no idea where you are taking this unless it is a black/white thing or you just can't read a scouting report or ever watched Griffin play.
Can't figure out your angle here other than when I proved he wasn't a running quarterback dropped all the way down to Graham effing Harrell as a comparsion.
Z
I have watched him play, the problem is that you haven't. Instead of searching YouTube for "RG3 highlights", go back and watch some full games for this season and last season as well...you know, back before anyone had even heard of Robert Griffin III and you were still clamoring over Jake Locker or Colin Karpernick to be our savior.
I brought up Graham Harrell to show that even those who have thrown for an inordinate amount of yards in college are not always "passing quarterbacks" more than they are products of a system. Especially in the Big 12.
As for your "running quarterback" angle, you wouldn't even be considering him at 4 if he couldn't run a 4.3 40, so don't try and play that down. If that were the case, how would he be any different from Troy Smith or Jamarcus Russell or Kyle Boller or Derek Anderson (minus 4 inches). Don't act like your boner for Griffin isn't at least half due to the fact that he's a sprinter.
Instead of regurgitating the dreg Adam Schefter or Mel Kiper farts out, go back and actually watch a full game or two. And make sure when you do watch them, they're not playing one of the 9 or 10 teams they played this season with defenses ranked in the bottom 45.
This is Brady Quinn all over again. Once ESPN finds someone to latch onto, there's at least 3 or 4 guys in here who claim to be "scouting wizards" and that not drafting said person is going to be the worst thing for us.
Now, if you want to try and refute any of the facts I've previously listed with other facts instead of latching onto the words "Graham Harrell" or "Troy Smith", I'll be waiting.
I have watched him play, the problem is that you haven't. Instead of searching YouTube for "RG3 highlights", go back and watch some full games for this season and last season as well...you know, back before anyone had even heard of Robert Griffin III and you were still clamoring over Jake Locker or Colin Karpernick to be our savior.
I brought up Graham Harrell to show that even those who have thrown for an inordinate amount of yards in college are not always "passing quarterbacks" more than they are products of a system. Especially in the Big 12.
As for your "running quarterback" angle, you wouldn't even be considering him at 4 if he couldn't run a 4.3 40, so don't try and play that down. If that were the case, how would he be any different from Troy Smith or Jamarcus Russell or Kyle Boller or Derek Anderson (minus 4 inches). Don't act like your boner for Griffin isn't at least half due to the fact that he's a sprinter.
Instead of regurgitating the dreg Adam Schefter or Mel Kiper farts out, go back and actually watch a full game or two. And make sure when you do watch them, they're not playing one of the 9 or 10 teams they played this season with defenses ranked in the bottom 45.
This is Brady Quinn all over again. Once ESPN finds someone to latch onto, there's at least 3 or 4 guys in here who claim to be "scouting wizards" and that not drafting said person is going to be the worst thing for us.
Now, if you want to try and refute any of the facts I've previously listed with other facts instead of latching onto the words "Graham Harrell" or "Troy Smith", I'll be waiting.
Now I've seen a majority of RG3's games from his entire college career and have come away being nothing but impressed. Hell after seeing him his freshman year you could tell he was going to turn into something special. He's been one of the Big 12's pleasant surprises since his freshman year. You have no idea how big of a relief it was to every team in the Big 12 when he went down with injury his sophomore year. The most impressive aspect of his game isn't his speed, but his ability to keep the play alive, accurate long ball, and his ability to make big plays. Before this year started I was hoping that when RG3 did come out, the lack of hype from going to Baylor as well as how skeptically "running QBs" are viewed he would be able to be had for a second or third round pick but unfortunately, he just had to go out, have a bonkers year, and win the Heisman. Now I'm no professional talent evaluator by any stretch but RG3 has been someone I've had my eye on for awhile and viewed as someone that could ,potentially, turn this franchise around. With that being said, I'll admit I am worried about taking him with the 4th overall pick though. When you take into account our lack of weapons and lack of coaching, Cleveland could end up being more detrimental then beneficial for someone with RG3's talent. Shurmur really is killing me with trying to determine who I want us to take at the 4 spot. If he can learn that being a coach isn't about implementing his system and realize that he needs to tailor his offense around the skills of the players on offense then pull the trigger and take RG3. If he's stubborn and insist on his system then just take the damn OT at 4 so our next coach will have one less problem to deal with on the offensive line. I'd love to see RG3 in a Browns uniform but as a football fan I'd prefer to see him somewhere that the team will actually attempt tailor their offense around him so that he can succeed. He's too much fun to watch to have a shitty head coach ruin him by trying to make him something that he's not.
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Zombo said:
Someone called him a "running quarterback". I pointed out that "running quarterbacks" don't throw for 4,300 yards ... to which your brilliant retort was "than what's the difference between him and Graham Harrell?"
If I have to explain the difference between Griffin and Harrell as pro prospects to you, then you don't really belong in this discussion.
BTW, I hated Troy Smith as a prospect and so did the 32 teams that passed on him six times. I loved Bernie Kosar as a prospect and so did the Browns who gave up their first round pick for him.
So I have no idea where you are taking this unless it is a black/white thing or you just can't read a scouting report or ever watched Griffin play.
Can't figure out your angle here other than when I proved he wasn't a running quarterback dropped all the way down to Graham effing Harrell as a comparsion.
Z
I have watched him play, the problem is that you haven't. Instead of searching YouTube for "RG3 highlights", go back and watch some full games for this season and last season as well...you know, back before anyone had even heard of Robert Griffin III and you were still clamoring over Jake Locker or Colin Karpernick to be our savior.
I brought up Graham Harrell to show that even those who have thrown for an inordinate amount of yards in college are not always "passing quarterbacks" more than they are products of a system. Especially in the Big 12.
As for your "running quarterback" angle, you wouldn't even be considering him at 4 if he couldn't run a 4.3 40, so don't try and play that down. If that were the case, how would he be any different from Troy Smith or Jamarcus Russell or Kyle Boller or Derek Anderson (minus 4 inches). Don't act like your boner for Griffin isn't at least half due to the fact that he's a sprinter.
Instead of regurgitating the dreg Adam Schefter or Mel Kiper farts out, go back and actually watch a full game or two. And make sure when you do watch them, they're not playing one of the 9 or 10 teams they played this season with defenses ranked in the bottom 45.
This is Brady Quinn all over again. Once ESPN finds someone to latch onto, there's at least 3 or 4 guys in here who claim to be "scouting wizards" and that not drafting said person is going to be the worst thing for us.
Now, if you want to try and refute any of the facts I've previously listed with other facts instead of latching onto the words "Graham Harrell" or "Troy Smith", I'll be waiting.
I have watched him play, the problem is that you haven't. Instead of searching YouTube for "RG3 highlights", go back and watch some full games for this season and last season as well...you know, back before anyone had even heard of Robert Griffin III and you were still clamoring over Jake Locker or Colin Karpernick to be our savior.
I brought up Graham Harrell to show that even those who have thrown for an inordinate amount of yards in college are not always "passing quarterbacks" more than they are products of a system. Especially in the Big 12.
As for your "running quarterback" angle, you wouldn't even be considering him at 4 if he couldn't run a 4.3 40, so don't try and play that down. If that were the case, how would he be any different from Troy Smith or Jamarcus Russell or Kyle Boller or Derek Anderson (minus 4 inches). Don't act like your boner for Griffin isn't at least half due to the fact that he's a sprinter.
Instead of regurgitating the dreg Adam Schefter or Mel Kiper farts out, go back and actually watch a full game or two. And make sure when you do watch them, they're not playing one of the 9 or 10 teams they played this season with defenses ranked in the bottom 45.
This is Brady Quinn all over again. Once ESPN finds someone to latch onto, there's at least 3 or 4 guys in here who claim to be "scouting wizards" and that not drafting said person is going to be the worst thing for us.
Now, if you want to try and refute any of the facts I've previously listed with other facts instead of latching onto the words "Graham Harrell" or "Troy Smith", I'll be waiting.
Oh wait...so you wan't to see a whole game of RGIII playing football...
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The % of Qb's picked in the top 5 that have been busts is 30%. So if the Browns take another QB this time, well they already blew it on Couch so the chances are they will get it right this time
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