The Browns Need ... Another Game Breaker Wr
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the edwards, greens, warrens, robiskies Choco
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I disagree here. Coaching can't teach love for the game, and intensity, and the desire to win.
You have it, or you don't. The above guys don't, never will/never did.
The past idiots like savage etc, drafted on film and the combine.
I admit - other successful teams draft for intensity and love for the game, too.
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The Browns have many needs.
Even if they drafted Richardson (which they will not) he would not look good -- because that Browns OL last year was terrible. We need a good OL, like Cincy, before getting a RB. Cincinnati makes an average-at-best Benson look like a borderline all-pro because their OL is great.
That first round should be QB/WR (if RG3 is around) or WR then OL/DE/CB depending on who's available. Minnifield in the second would be a great throwback pick.
The more labels you have for yourself, the dumber they make you. "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." Paul Brown -
The above statement just isn't true. There are stud athletes all throughout the first 2 rounds. The truth is no one really know who is good and who isn't. If a team busts on a top tier prospect, they are set back quite a bit as a top 5 pick still costs a lot of money (not as much as it used to but still a lot of money tied up for a player to bust).
But I'm not saying that I think Richardson will bust. I'm saying that Heckert won't draft a runningback that high. It doesn't matter what our opinions are, because Heckert is the guy making the decisions. I think we will trade down if we can. If no one is wanting to trade, then we either take Blackmon, Claiborne, or RG3. And my money would be on the first two..
I agree the team is worse off busting on top 10 picks. I'm saying you look even stupider if you pass on say Richardson with your first pick because you want to take Dan Herron in the 5th...
I agree the team is worse off busting on top 10 picks. I'm saying you look even stupider if you pass on say Richardson with your first pick because you want to take Dan Herron in the 5th...
Yea, we remember the busts that were the likes of Courtney Browns, Gerard Warren, Braylon Edwards etc. than we do the bust that were taken in the fourth round.
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Richardson IS a can't miss talent... sorry but it IS FACT. When you have someone who totes the rock the way he totes it, it don't matter who you're running it against- he's gonna win. The kid has VISION, SPEED, STRENGTH, ELUSIVENESS, CATCHING ABILITY, AND HE'S GOT LOW MILEAGE!!! You can't ask for anything better.. Oh wait, I forgot he's under 6 foot tall! That's bad you might say, well technically, no it isn't! He shorter and harder to find behind a Big OL. By the time a defense recognizes he has the ball it'll be too little to late and he'll be long gone. He gonna be better than even Ray Rice. Ravens have the formula, Rice and Williams. Well, if we play our cards right we'll 1up them by marching out Richardson and Hillis- and if that happens...LOOK OUT!
Richardson IS a can't miss talent... sorry but it IS FACT. When you have someone who totes the rock the way he totes it, it don't matter who you're running it against- he's gonna win. The kid has VISION, SPEED, STRENGTH, ELUSIVENESS, CATCHING ABILITY, AND HE'S GOT LOW MILEAGE!!! You can't ask for anything better.. Oh wait, I forgot he's under 6 foot tall! That's bad you might say, well technically, no it isn't! He shorter and harder to find behind a Big OL. By the time a defense recognizes he has the ball it'll be too little to late and he'll be long gone. He gonna be better than even Ray Rice. Ravens have the formula, Rice and Williams. Well, if we play our cards right we'll 1up them by marching out Richardson and Hillis- and if that happens...LOOK OUT!
Ki-Jana Carter? Blair Thomas? Curtis Enis? All Top 5 RBs taken. This is why teams shy away from taking RBs that high anymore.
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Richardson IS a can't miss talent... sorry but it IS FACT. When you have someone who totes the rock the way he totes it, it don't matter who you're running it against- he's gonna win. The kid has VISION, SPEED, STRENGTH, ELUSIVENESS, CATCHING ABILITY, AND HE'S GOT LOW MILEAGE!!! You can't ask for anything better.. Oh wait, I forgot he's under 6 foot tall! That's bad you might say, well technically, no it isn't! He shorter and harder to find behind a Big OL. By the time a defense recognizes he has the ball it'll be too little to late and he'll be long gone. He gonna be better than even Ray Rice. Ravens have the formula, Rice and Williams. Well, if we play our cards right we'll 1up them by marching out Richardson and Hillis- and if that happens...LOOK OUT!
Ki-Jana Carter? Blair Thomas? Curtis Enis? All Top 5 RBs taken. This is why teams shy away from taking RBs that high anymore.
Ki-Jana Carter? Blair Thomas? Curtis Enis? All Top 5 RBs taken. This is why teams shy away from taking RBs that high anymore.
+1
Benson got cut by the Bears before he got his act together with the Bengals.
Not only that, the value of a running back has taken a nose dive in today's NFL. So the question would be "What have stud running backs Maurice Jones Drew done for the Jaguars, and Adrian Peterson done for the Vikings?" So if you answer "not much" go to the head of the class.
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the edwards, greens, warrens, robiskies Choco
*****************************
I disagree here. Coaching can't teach love for the game, and intensity, and the desire to win.
You have it, or you don't. The above guys don't, never will/never did.
The past idiots like savage etc, drafted on film and the combine.
I admit - other successful teams draft for intensity and love for the game, too.
the edwards, greens, warrens, robiskies Choco
*****************************
Coaching can't teach love for the game, and intensity, and the desire to win.
i love the game, am intense and desire to always win.
does this mean i can play football?
i know what your saying cal....but your point was more of a sidecar rather than disagreeing with my point. those intangibles you cite are nice to have in players, no doubt. im talking about a competent coach that provides the tools for his guys to improve their game. a player oozing with talent needs to know how to harness and exploit that talent, otherwise its wasted.
kam wimbley is a great example of this in my eyes. head coach and player friend, romeo crennel, decided his summer camps were more about morale building than learning anything about football. kam impressed his first year, everyone creamed their pants, then he fell off the map. there's many opinions as to why that is....mine would be a simple lack of coaching. kam was notorious for having one move....he could not bull rush, spin, swim.....he'd just rush the edge. by his second year, he was easy to defend cause he nmever developed his game. some of that is tied to those intangibles you mentioned, particularly in that one must have drive and love to progress. nevertheless, you can love and desire to win all ya want, unless one has guidance and instruction on how to get better via good coaching, players will hit the plateau much lower and be condemned to mediocrity or be pushing pencils by age 25.
talent means absolutely nothing unless someone knows how to harness and use it. its not like we've never had talented players the last 12 years...we just had shit coaching that couldn't get the best outta those players.
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I agree the team is worse off busting on top 10 picks. I'm saying you look even stupider if you pass on say Richardson with your first pick because you want to take Dan Herron in the 5th...
Yea, we remember the busts that were the likes of Courtney Browns, Gerard Warren, Braylon Edwards etc. than we do the bust that were taken in the fourth round.
Yea, we remember the busts that were the likes of Courtney Browns, Gerard Warren, Braylon Edwards etc. than we do the bust that were taken in the fourth round.
I'm sorry but Braylon Edwards was hardly a bust. He caught 17 touchdowns in a season for us and the only reason he got ran out is because he tended to drop the ball. I'd take 17 touchdowns AND 17 drops. The Browns always find players who drop the ball, might as well find one that catches touchdowns too!
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Ki-Jana Carter? Blair Thomas? Curtis Enis? All Top 5 RBs taken. This is why teams shy away from taking RBs that high anymore.
+1
Benson got cut by the Bears before he got his act together with the Bengals.
Not only that, the value of a running back has taken a nose dive in today's NFL. So the question would be "What have stud running backs Maurice Jones Drew done for the Jaguars, and Adrian Peterson done for the Vikings?" So if you answer "not much" go to the head of the class.
+1
Benson got cut by the Bears before he got his act together with the Bengals.
Not only that, the value of a running back has taken a nose dive in today's NFL. So the question would be "What have stud running backs Maurice Jones Drew done for the Jaguars, and Adrian Peterson done for the Vikings?" So if you answer "not much" go to the head of the class.
Ok you can say that but was has Ray Rice done for the Ravens, Arian Foster done for the Texans, and Frank Gore done for the 49ers? The Jaguars and Vikings have terrible weapons on offense at receiver and quarterback. That's why they suck. Oh right, sounds like the Browns problems. So take Blackmon if he's there or if not Richardson. I'm the one that needs to go to class? Think not.
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+1
Benson got cut by the Bears before he got his act together with the Bengals.
Not only that, the value of a running back has taken a nose dive in today's NFL. So the question would be "What have stud running backs Maurice Jones Drew done for the Jaguars, and Adrian Peterson done for the Vikings?" So if you answer "not much" go to the head of the class.
Ok you can say that but was has Ray Rice done for the Ravens, Arian Foster done for the Texans, and Frank Gore done for the 49ers? The Jaguars and Vikings have terrible weapons on offense at receiver and quarterback. That's why they suck. Oh right, sounds like the Browns problems. So take Blackmon if he's there or if not Richardson. I'm the one that needs to go to class? Think not.
Ok you can say that but was has Ray Rice done for the Ravens, Arian Foster done for the Texans, and Frank Gore done for the 49ers? The Jaguars and Vikings have terrible weapons on offense at receiver and quarterback. That's why they suck. Oh right, sounds like the Browns problems. So take Blackmon if he's there or if not Richardson. I'm the one that needs to go to class? Think not.
Time to drop some knowledge on your "learned" ass.
Rice: 2nd round, 55th overall
Foster: Undrafted
Gore: 3rd round, 65th overall
These guys are examples of why we shouldn't go with Richardson.
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Yea, we remember the busts that were the likes of Courtney Browns, Gerard Warren, Braylon Edwards etc. than we do the bust that were taken in the fourth round.
I'm sorry but Braylon Edwards was hardly a bust. He caught 17 touchdowns in a season for us and the only reason he got ran out is because he tended to drop the ball. I'd take 17 touchdowns AND 17 drops. The Browns always find players who drop the ball, might as well find one that catches touchdowns too!
I'm sorry but Braylon Edwards was hardly a bust. He caught 17 touchdowns in a season for us and the only reason he got ran out is because he tended to drop the ball. I'd take 17 touchdowns AND 17 drops. The Browns always find players who drop the ball, might as well find one that catches touchdowns too!
Really?! He is the very definition of a bust. He had one good season with over 1200 yards receiving and 16 (not 17) touchdowns. What did he do the very next year? he caught 3 TDs while dropping virtually everything thrown his way. Anyone would take 17 TDs and 17 drops. But you can't win with 3 TDs and 17+ drops. The guy was a head case. He always had the talent, but he just wasn't mentally tough. One good season in 5 years as a 3rd overall pick is a big fat BUST!
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In this Browns FO I trust.
But I get confused about RGIII. He would be a great pickup, to play behind
Colt for a year at least...
but it doesn't help the Browns now. If they do draft RGIII, it will be because
the Browns don't want Wallace being a pouty veteran. A vet qb who won't help a young rookie?
Toast. Locker room downer. I mean, Wallace just seemed like he wasn't into coming in
as a backup, and caring at all. When he ran out of bounds yards before he had to, when he could have had
a first down....he showed no fire.
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i love the game, am intense and desire to always win.
does this mean i can play football? Choco
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No.
But coaching an elite talent who doesn't give a frak, like Edwards, and coaching
another elite talent who has that fire, the intense desire to win, and LOVES the game......
coaching can't make up the difference.
In fact, I'd say that the player with the desire and intensity can often be far more productive
even with less physical talent.
It's a very rough game of emotion. Without that emotion, you have a Cluckett. A warren.
Kosar wasn't an elite physical talent, @@.....
but his intensity, work ethic, and drive to win, and his qb intelligence made him a great one for the Browns.
BTW, I heard Bernie Kosar on the radio the other day - he was laughing about his forty time. He said it was
5.2... in the thirty.... He said his time with the ten yard dash was pretty darn good though.... but after that
he got winded.... LOL
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The Browns have many needs.
Even if they drafted Richardson (which they will not) he would not look good -- because that Browns OL last year was terrible. We need a good OL, like Cincy, before getting a RB. Cincinnati makes an average-at-best Benson look like a borderline all-pro because their OL is great.
That first round should be QB/WR (if RG3 is around) or WR then OL/DE/CB depending on who's available. Minnifield in the second would be a great throwback pick.
The Browns have many needs.
Even if they drafted Richardson (which they will not) he would not look good -- because that Browns OL last year was terrible. We need a good OL, like Cincy, before getting a RB. Cincinnati makes an average-at-best Benson look like a borderline all-pro because their OL is great.
That first round should be QB/WR (if RG3 is around) or WR then OL/DE/CB depending on who's available. Minnifield in the second would be a great throwback pick.
I'm not trying to be a jerk but I'm so tired of the chicken and the egg statements. We can't get a QB because we don't have the tools around him to succeed. We can't get a runningback because our OL was shitty last season. This is what bugs me: Even though our OL, is some peoples opinion, was bad, we still refute the idea of drafting a Matt Kalil and fortifying it for years to come by moving him to the RT. If he's as good as everyone thinks, worhty of the #2 or #3 pick overall. Then he should have no problem coming to Cleveland and shoring up the right side of the OL. He could do what Joe Thomas has done for the left side.
I'm sick of the excuses about our OL being terrible and nothing works because of it. I still think Richardson is going to be a beast RB and he'll make our line look a lot better than it really is. OUR LINE IS NOT THAT BAD. We have a Joe T and Mack we need another STANDOUT OL at RT and then it will really shine. We have suitable Depth and consistency at the G positions, but a chain is only as strong as it's weakest link.
RT is also the catalyst that will help McCoy to succeed. We don't need an RG3 or what not. Colt will be just fine if we can give him some time. Our Running game sucked because we had crappy running backs running the ball. We had a crappy Passing game because WR and RB alike dropped passes. If Receivers catch the ball, if the RTOL stops making the defense ROTFL and we have a capable runningback the Offense will grow. Until then you could fill the QB position up with first round draft picks from now to 2020 but we'll never get to the post season. RG3 will not make the WR's catch any better than Colt can. RG3 will scramble because of pressure from the RT position and will quickly become injured. The shit will get "real" for RG3 real fast in the pros. Our best bet is to stick with Colt- fix the motor before you put on a brand new paint job and some 20s.
I would love to get Chase Minnifield but I think it will take 22 overall. I like this pick not just because his DAD was a Brown but because Chase is a Shutdown corner in his own right. The kid has great hips and hands, he is certainly his father's son. Minnifield and Haden will lead this secondary with Ward backing them up. Then we'll just need a FS that Rocks and our D will flourish with more time to get to the QB.
PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE! GET CHASE MINNIFIELD AT ALL COSTS. IF WE ONLY GET ONE PLAYER THIS YEAR MAKE IT CHASE. DO THE RIGHT THING HECKERT- DO IT FOR THE DAWGPOUND!
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Maybe I'm just tired, but I think you contradicted yourself in that post.
No great rb can run when he doesn't have the blocking.
No great qb can perform like one, without at least a little protection,
and some open recievers. Watch Brady. A lot of terrific protection, but when it isn't
there but for a second or two, he has ususally, more than one wide open outlet.
But the Browns don't NEED to draft a top notch OL for right tackle at 4 or 22.
The RT I want the Browns to get, might be there in the third round... Bobby Massie.
But, more and more, he may impress hugely at the combine, and the Browns will have to nab him
in the second round. I don't know. And, I'm thinkin Minifield is gone before the second round. I wish they would
move the combine up to late Feb. and the combine to mid March. "sigh"
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Do we need a ProBowler on the Right side, you betcha we do. Would I draft Kalil if given the chance and put him there for that purpose? Yes I would. Would I draft Richardson without fixing the Rightside first? I still would. We won't get Kalil but if we had the choice of Kalil or Richardson and I had to pick one... It would be Kalil. But if Kalil is gone it wouldn't stop me from drafting Richardson. I wouldn't pass on Chase more than once, we'll be lucky if he's there at 22. If he is, pull the trigger. Two shutdown corners and the Browns go to top 5 in total defense in 2012.
The secret of getting ahead is getting started. The secret of getting started is breaking your complex overwhelming tasks into small manageable tasks, and then starting on the first one. -Mark Twain- "It's not the size of the dog in the fight, it's the size of the fight in the dog." -Mark Twain- -
additionally, coaching also matters. its no coincidence pittsburgh turns out linebackers, that new england picks guys off the street to run the rock. the other side of the coin is that even guys with tons of talent....the edwards, greens, warrens, robiskies....turn out to bust because they never learn how to play properly. poor coaching has hurt many of our past draft picks....
additionally, coaching also matters. its no coincidence pittsburgh turns out linebackers, that new england picks guys off the street to run the rock. the other side of the coin is that even guys with tons of talent....the edwards, greens, warrens, robiskies....turn out to bust because they never learn how to play properly. poor coaching has hurt many of our past draft picks....
Did you just say Brian Robiskie has tons of talent? He was a second round pick for the Browns and was a huge reach for need.
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Really?! He is the very definition of a bust. He had one good season with over 1200 yards receiving and 16 (not 17) touchdowns. What did he do the very next year? he caught 3 TDs while dropping virtually everything thrown his way. Anyone would take 17 TDs and 17 drops. But you can't win with 3 TDs and 17+ drops. The guy was a head case. He always had the talent, but he just wasn't mentally tough. One good season in 5 years as a 3rd overall pick is a big fat BUST!
Well he was hurt in one of those years. Another was his rookie year. And one of those years included us playing like 7 QBs...
I say we resign him. Low risk high reward... and I'm not biased AT ALL
Maybe he'll bunch one of Lebrons friends again. You guys would probably love that
Ja.brill Peppers - Cleveland Brown OldBrownsFan, on 02 Jun 2017 - 5:09PM said: "No you are not the work of the devil but you are deceived by the devil." Who's got it better than us? Nooooobody! -
Now I'm no doubt a big fan of RG3 but if Blackmon is there at 4 you take him hands down. Richardson may very well be good but please don't compare him to Adrian Peterson. They aren't comparable. I do like Minifield at 22 regardless of what we do at 4. I'd prefer us to resign Hillis (if the price is right) and find a fast running back in the later rounds. There is no need to take a running back in the first round unless they are in fact Adrian Peterson and unfortunately he isn't in this years draft.
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Ok you can say that but was has Ray Rice done for the Ravens, Arian Foster done for the Texans, and Frank Gore done for the 49ers? The Jaguars and Vikings have terrible weapons on offense at receiver and quarterback. That's why they suck. Oh right, sounds like the Browns problems. So take Blackmon if he's there or if not Richardson. I'm the one that needs to go to class? Think not.
Time to drop some knowledge on your "learned" ass.
Rice: 2nd round, 55th overall
Foster: Undrafted
Gore: 3rd round, 65th overall
These guys are examples of why we shouldn't go with Richardson.
Time to drop some knowledge on your "learned" ass.
Rice: 2nd round, 55th overall
Foster: Undrafted
Gore: 3rd round, 65th overall
These guys are examples of why we shouldn't go with Richardson.
Jamal Lewis, Darren McFadden, and Ladanian Tomlinson all drafted in the top 5 in the last 11 drafts. Also, top five runningbacks Reggie Bush, Cadillac Williams, Cedric Benson, and Ronnie Brown, all of which are above average NFL runningbacks.
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Do we need a ProBowler on the Right side, you betcha we do. Would I draft Kalil if given the chance and put him there for that purpose? Yes I would. Would I draft Richardson without fixing the Rightside first? I still would. We won't get Kalil but if we had the choice of Kalil or Richardson and I had to pick one... It would be Kalil. But if Kalil is gone it wouldn't stop me from drafting Richardson. I wouldn't pass on Chase more than once, we'll be lucky if he's there at 22. If he is, pull the trigger. Two shutdown corners and the Browns go to top 5 in total defense in 2012.
Do we need a ProBowler on the Right side, you betcha we do. Would I draft Kalil if given the chance and put him there for that purpose? Yes I would. Would I draft Richardson without fixing the Rightside first? I still would. We won't get Kalil but if we had the choice of Kalil or Richardson and I had to pick one... It would be Kalil. But if Kalil is gone it wouldn't stop me from drafting Richardson. I wouldn't pass on Chase more than once, we'll be lucky if he's there at 22. If he is, pull the trigger. Two shutdown corners and the Browns go to top 5 in total defense in 2012.
YOU might draft Kalil with the #4 overall pick as a RT, but I can GUARANTEE you no NFL GM in his right mind would ever do something like that. It's cap suicide right off the bat. Pick a number, and I will bet you the Browns aren't interested in Kalil, and if Blackmon and RGIII are gone and Kalil is the only option, the Browns will trade out of the pick instead. But that's a moot point- because if the Rams don't take Kalil, the Vikings certainly will.
It's been done before, but you weren't paying attention as to why you never, ever take a RT that high.
1) It isn't as simple as you think to slide someone who's been playing the left side over to the right and expect him to succeed. Exhibit "A" would be our own Jabaal Sheard, who was asked to switch sides, struggled mightily, but came on like gangbusters when switched back to his more natural position. AND, the skill set required to play LT as opposed to RT is different.
2) RT is the SECOND most important position on the o-line, and is valued as such. A pure RT has never been drafted that high in the history of the NFL draft- the highest I could find was Brian Bulaga of the Packers, and he went in the 20s. Most stud RTs only go in the SECOND round FYI. Sebastian Vollmer (Patriots) who was the only RT selected to the Pro Bowl got drafted in the second round, that's ONE RT out of 32 starters @ that position who could beat out any of the other 27 guys playing LT.
3) Before you tell me Kalil is "can't miss" let me remind you of Tony Mandarich (who is consensus top 10 biggest busts ever) and Robert Gallery- originally drafted a a LT, couldn't hack it there, and got moved to RT. Why? Because he wasn't GOOD enough to be a LT!
Sorry guy- we can get a plenty studly enough RT in the second round, or should we take Minnifield, we have enough 4th round ammunition coupled with our high 3rd to trade back up into the low second round to get our RT.
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