Lessons From History
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25 of the 45 superbowls have been won by 1st rounders. Montana and Brady won 7 of the remaining 20. And Drew Brees would be a 1st rounder if he were drafted today. Also the Packers traded the 19th overall for Favre.
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History also says first round quarterbacks win the majority of Superbowls. Superbowl winning Quarterbacks taken outside of the first are the exception not the rule.
Not exactly, more like 1\2 the time. Brady and Montana skew the results. Brees was a second rounder, ditto Farve. Kurt Warner was bagging groceries. Doug Williams got drafted where?
I'll let Gipper research what round the winning qbs got drafted in if he's in the mood.
Not exactly, more like 1\2 the time. Brady and Montana skew the results. Brees was a second rounder, ditto Farve. Kurt Warner was bagging groceries. Doug Williams got drafted where?
Yes, and of course it never hurts to have your team on a major roll come playoff time. Jeff Hostetler also comes to mind.
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QB's who are excellent field generals, have the field vision, the quick reads, etc... are hard to find.
That makes them in great demand. A lot of first round qb's never made it to the superbowl.
Remember Leinart's struggles? Sanchez's ? Alex Smith's ? Leaf's ? Flacco's struggles? (and he had a ton of talent around him...)
Most qb's come in the first round - that doesn't mean they will be successful. It means the demand
for the special qualities of a qb are in great demand, and those qb's are hard to find.
Even in the first round.
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So we need to draft RG3 in order to find our skinny guy?
If he had gone to Rice like Frank Ryan did instead of Baylor, I might say he was the egghead.
I don't know how many times I have to say it....go get RG, but not at the price some people think we should give for him, i.e. both our first rounders.
I know that there is some kind of draft value chart out there that says that it is a fair price to trade the #4 and the #22 for the #2....and I say....bullshit.
I don't know how some fecking numerologist can make that determination.
My view is that a third rounder should suffice plenty and screw the chart.
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I've never seen a fanbase as scared of wanting success as the one for the Browns. You all are really hustling backwards with the logic you all keep bringing up. Browns haven't won jack in 50 years. Posting about the 'right' draft decisions they've made is not a good look.
Geez...
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I've never seen a fanbase as scared of wanting success as the one for the Browns. You all are really hustling backwards with the logic you all keep bringing up. Browns haven't won jack in 50 years. Posting about the 'right' draft decisions they've made is not a good look.
Geez...
I've never seen a fanbase as scared of wanting success as the one for the Browns. You all are really hustling backwards with the logic you all keep bringing up. Browns haven't won jack in 50 years. Posting about the 'right' draft decisions they've made is not a good look.
Geez...
I take it by your statements that you are NOT a fan of the Cleveland Browns. Clearly, it is not the best interests of the Cleveland Browns that you have at heart, but something else. You joined this forum on February 12th of this year....and you expect us to swallow your world view of Browns football?
And it is quite the opposite: I do NOT want to blow the future if the Cleveland Browns on an Andre Ware/Gino Torretta/Charlie Ward/Jason White/Akili Smith/Matt Leinert/Joey Harrington "can't miss" kind of guy.
I want RGIII ...at the right price. And that price does not include dessimating the valuable assets of this franchise.
Giving me a good linebacker and a good defensive end with those two picks is a viable alternative.
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Gipper's thoughts are right on the money. WHY, with the Brown's numerous needs, would we give away picks for a single player? I understand RG3 is impressive but, as he stated previously, so were many others (including Ryan "better than Peyton Manning" Leaf). None of us really know who will do what...there are no "slam dunks" in the draft, so let's trust Heckert, whose track record is pretty damned good.
Mike
IN DORSEY I TRUST -
You know how the old adage goes: Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it.
And here is the lesson the Browns and their fans need to recall: That it isn't necessarily the QB with the big strong arm and the lively legs that makes the best QB.
Back in the early 60s the Browns had a mobile, strong armed QB by the name of Milt Plum, but the Browns brought in from a trade a thin wiry egghead of a QB named Frank Ryan.
Who proved to be the better QB? The skinny egghead.
About a decade later the Browns had a strong armed, mobile QB they took with the third overall pick of the first round named Mike Phipps. A year later, they picked up a short, skinny QB with a noodle arm in the 13th round, just to be a roster filler...by the name of Brian Sipe.
Who proved to be the better QB? The skinny noodle armed kid.
A decade later, Mr. Howard Schnellenberger at the University of Miami had a choice to make for his QB from a couple of guys he recruited.... a kid with a bazooka arm and pistons for legs...or a big nosed, skinny, slow, stork like kid with a deceant arm but not a bazooka like the other guy. The first guy was Vinny Testaverde, the second Bernie Kosar.
Who proved to be the better QB? The big skinny, slow stork.
So, just be aware that simply because a guy has legs like Betty Grable and an arm like a baking soda label, it doesn't necessarily mean that he is the best man for the job.
These lessons of course all come from just Browns history.
You know how the old adage goes: Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it.
And here is the lesson the Browns and their fans need to recall: That it isn't necessarily the QB with the big strong arm and the lively legs that makes the best QB.
Back in the early 60s the Browns had a mobile, strong armed QB by the name of Milt Plum, but the Browns brought in from a trade a thin wiry egghead of a QB named Frank Ryan.
Who proved to be the better QB? The skinny egghead.
About a decade later the Browns had a strong armed, mobile QB they took with the third overall pick of the first round named Mike Phipps. A year later, they picked up a short, skinny QB with a noodle arm in the 13th round, just to be a roster filler...by the name of Brian Sipe.
Who proved to be the better QB? The skinny noodle armed kid.
A decade later, Mr. Howard Schnellenberger at the University of Miami had a choice to make for his QB from a couple of guys he recruited.... a kid with a bazooka arm and pistons for legs...or a big nosed, skinny, slow, stork like kid with a deceant arm but not a bazooka like the other guy. The first guy was Vinny Testaverde, the second Bernie Kosar.
Who proved to be the better QB? The big skinny, slow stork.
So, just be aware that simply because a guy has legs like Betty Grable and an arm like a baking soda label, it doesn't necessarily mean that he is the best man for the job.
These lessons of course all come from just Browns history.
What you said is true. But THAT browns team has moved to Baltimore. This Browns have no history of success finding a QB. So based on history we should not be drafting a QB
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I've never seen a fanbase as scared of wanting success as the one for the Browns. You all are really hustling backwards with the logic you all keep bringing up. Browns haven't won jack in 50 years. Posting about the 'right' draft decisions they've made is not a good look.
Geez...
I've never seen a fanbase as scared of wanting success as the one for the Browns. You all are really hustling backwards with the logic you all keep bringing up. Browns haven't won jack in 50 years. Posting about the 'right' draft decisions they've made is not a good look.
Geez...
Well, your screen name hardly makes you objective in regards to RGIII.
H&H may decide McCoy is serviceable- given adequate surrounding talent, and not get into a bidding war over Griffin. I have a feeling they would be willing to trade up- but not at a stupid price. Definitely not at a cost of two firsts and a second.
A lot will depend on what happens with Peyton Manning, and my fervent hope is he winds up in Washington, taking the only owner who's crazy enough to get into a bidding war over Griffin out of the equation, any other team wanting him would have to give up too much to move up. The Rams want Blackmon or Kalil, and if they drop down to #6, they won't get either. In this scenario, RGIII may well fall all the way to the Browns, and they give up nothing to get him.
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Gipper's thoughts are right on the money. WHY, with the Brown's numerous needs, would we give away picks for a single player? I understand RG3 is impressive but, as he stated previously, so were many others (including Ryan "better than Peyton Manning" Leaf). None of us really know who will do what...there are no "slam dunks" in the draft, so let's trust Heckert, whose track record is pretty damned good.
Mike
Gipper's thoughts are right on the money. WHY, with the Brown's numerous needs, would we give away picks for a single player?
Because Quarterback is the single most important position in sports.
A good Quarterback trumps any combination of two other positions you can put together.
"All Truth Passes Through Three stages. First, It Is Ridiculed, Second It Is Violently Opposed, And Third, It Is Accepted As Self-Evident" ~Arthur Schopenhauer -
You know how the old adage goes: Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it.
And here is the lesson the Browns and their fans need to recall: That it isn't necessarily the QB with the big strong arm and the lively legs that makes the best QB.
Back in the early 60s the Browns had a mobile, strong armed QB by the name of Milt Plum, but the Browns brought in from a trade a thin wiry egghead of a QB named Frank Ryan.
Who proved to be the better QB? The skinny egghead.
About a decade later the Browns had a strong armed, mobile QB they took with the third overall pick of the first round named Mike Phipps. A year later, they picked up a short, skinny QB with a noodle arm in the 13th round, just to be a roster filler...by the name of Brian Sipe.
Who proved to be the better QB? The skinny noodle armed kid.
A decade later, Mr. Howard Schnellenberger at the University of Miami had a choice to make for his QB from a couple of guys he recruited.... a kid with a bazooka arm and pistons for legs...or a big nosed, skinny, slow, stork like kid with a deceant arm but not a bazooka like the other guy. The first guy was Vinny Testaverde, the second Bernie Kosar.
Who proved to be the better QB? The big skinny, slow stork.
So, just be aware that simply because a guy has legs like Betty Grable and an arm like a baking soda label, it doesn't necessarily mean that he is the best man for the job.
These lessons of course all come from just Browns history.
What you said is true. But THAT browns team has moved to Baltimore. This Browns have no history of success finding a QB. So based on history we should not be drafting a QB
What you said is true. But THAT browns team has moved to Baltimore. This Browns have no history of success finding a QB. So based on history we should not be drafting a QB
Fuck Off with the "Browns moved to Baltimore" bullshit.
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Gipper's thoughts are right on the money. WHY, with the Brown's numerous needs, would we give away picks for a single player?
Because Quarterback is the single most important position in sports.
A good Quarterback trumps any combination of two other positions you can put together.
Because Quarterback is the single most important position in sports.
A good Quarterback trumps any combination of two other positions you can put together.
Maybe....but a bad QB....a bust that costs you 2 first round draft choices is far more devastating to a franchise than a bust at any combination of two other positions you can put together.
Like I said, I am willing to take him at #4...or even to move up 1 or two slots as long as it costs no more than an additional 3rd round pick.
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I think if they are all busts it's pretty much the same.
I think RG3 is going to be a hit so I think we should do what it takes to get him.
If I were on the ropes about him I would not trade up for him or draft him if he is there at four.
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I think if they are all busts it's pretty much the same.
I think RG3 is going to be a hit so I think we should do what it takes to get him.
If I were on the ropes about him I would not trade up for him or draft him if he is there at four.
I think if they are all busts it's pretty much the same.
No, I think that a bust that costs you 2 first round picks is twice as bad as one that costs you 1 first round pick. Elementary my dear.
I think RG3 is going to be a hit so I think we should do what it takes to get him.
If I were on the ropes about him I would not trade up for him or draft him if he is there at four.
I would demand that you have verified certification from Nostradamus himself that RG is going to be all that before I would want to spend 2 1st round picks on him. And since Nostradamus is dead, I don't think you can deliver on that requirement..
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What you said is true. But THAT browns team has moved to Baltimore. This Browns have no history of success finding a QB. So based on history we should not be drafting a QB
Fuck Off with the "Browns moved to Baltimore" bullshit.
Fuck Off with the "Browns moved to Baltimore" bullshit.
Not sure why you're arguing this. The browns DID move to Baltimore and became the ravens. We got an expansion team and called them the browns. They ARE two different teams.
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Fuck Off with the "Browns moved to Baltimore" bullshit.
Not sure why you're arguing this. The browns DID move to Baltimore and became the ravens. We got an expansion team and called them the browns. They ARE two different teams.
Not sure why you're arguing this. The browns DID move to Baltimore and became the ravens. We got an expansion team and called them the browns. They ARE two different teams.
I argue it because you are legally, and factually wrong. Do I really have to explain it to YOU now after 17 years?
The Cleveland Browns franchise did not move the distance of one pubic hair. It stayed right here.
A new Ravens franchise was created in Baltimore. IT was the expansion franchise, not the Browns. The contracts of certain employees of the Browns was assigned to the Ravens franchise. In essence, they were traded en masse to the Ravens.
When we traded Brady Quinn to the Broncos did the Cleveland Browns become the Denver Broncos? No. And when we traded Vinny Testaverde et al to the Baltimore Ravens, the Cleveland Browns did not become the Baltimore Ravens.
And you may ask about ownership...didn't Art Modell keep ownership? The answer is no.
First off, Robert Gries and Al Lerner were part owners of the Browns. Those guys never became owners of the Ravens. So ownership was different.
And those are just a couple of the factors into why the Cleveland Browns never "became" the Ravens.
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Definition of Assignment:
a. The transfer of a claim, right, interest, or property from one to another.
The contracts, i.e. the "claim, right or interest" the Browns had in certain players were assigned to the Ravens.
Players in the NFL (and in other leagues) are essentially property which can be sold, transferred or exchanged among franchises. It happens all the time. Usually not in the scale in which the transfer of contracts were made from the Cleveland Browns to the Baltimore Ravens, but it does happen.
Similar example: Robert Irsay, owner of the Rams and Carrol Rosenblum, owner of the Colts traded franchises in the early 1970s. When that happened the Rams didn't become the Colts and the Colts didn't become the Rams, though there was some finagling going back and forth:
http://iqfb.com/league-facts/colts-and-rams-biggest-trade-in-nfl-history/
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The Browns coming back from the dead has been like the sports version of pet cemetery.
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Zombo said:
Quite simply, the Cleveland Browns didn't field a team from 1996-1998, while the Baltimore franchise began operations in 1996.
We fought hard for the team, the history and the colors to stay in Cleveland.
The Browns are the Browns. The Ravens are the Ravens.
Zombo
Yes sir.
Edit to read Ravens are the Ratbirds
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