Lessons From History
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I've never seen a fanbase as scared of wanting success as the one for the Browns. You all are really hustling backwards with the logic you all keep bringing up. Browns haven't won jack in 50 years. Posting about the 'right' draft decisions they've made is not a good look.
Geez...
I've never seen a fanbase as scared of wanting success as the one for the Browns. You all are really hustling backwards with the logic you all keep bringing up. Browns haven't won jack in 50 years. Posting about the 'right' draft decisions they've made is not a good look.
Geez...
Well, your screen name hardly makes you objective in regards to RGIII.
H&H may decide McCoy is serviceable- given adequate surrounding talent, and not get into a bidding war over Griffin. I have a feeling they would be willing to trade up- but not at a stupid price. Definitely not at a cost of two firsts and a second.
A lot will depend on what happens with Peyton Manning, and my fervent hope is he winds up in Washington, taking the only owner who's crazy enough to get into a bidding war over Griffin out of the equation, any other team wanting him would have to give up too much to move up. The Rams want Blackmon or Kalil, and if they drop down to #6, they won't get either. In this scenario, RGIII may well fall all the way to the Browns, and they give up nothing to get him.
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Gipper's thoughts are right on the money. WHY, with the Brown's numerous needs, would we give away picks for a single player? I understand RG3 is impressive but, as he stated previously, so were many others (including Ryan "better than Peyton Manning" Leaf). None of us really know who will do what...there are no "slam dunks" in the draft, so let's trust Heckert, whose track record is pretty damned good.
Mike
Gipper's thoughts are right on the money. WHY, with the Brown's numerous needs, would we give away picks for a single player?
Because Quarterback is the single most important position in sports.
A good Quarterback trumps any combination of two other positions you can put together.
"All Truth Passes Through Three stages. First, It Is Ridiculed, Second It Is Violently Opposed, And Third, It Is Accepted As Self-Evident" ~Arthur Schopenhauer -
You know how the old adage goes: Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it.
And here is the lesson the Browns and their fans need to recall: That it isn't necessarily the QB with the big strong arm and the lively legs that makes the best QB.
Back in the early 60s the Browns had a mobile, strong armed QB by the name of Milt Plum, but the Browns brought in from a trade a thin wiry egghead of a QB named Frank Ryan.
Who proved to be the better QB? The skinny egghead.
About a decade later the Browns had a strong armed, mobile QB they took with the third overall pick of the first round named Mike Phipps. A year later, they picked up a short, skinny QB with a noodle arm in the 13th round, just to be a roster filler...by the name of Brian Sipe.
Who proved to be the better QB? The skinny noodle armed kid.
A decade later, Mr. Howard Schnellenberger at the University of Miami had a choice to make for his QB from a couple of guys he recruited.... a kid with a bazooka arm and pistons for legs...or a big nosed, skinny, slow, stork like kid with a deceant arm but not a bazooka like the other guy. The first guy was Vinny Testaverde, the second Bernie Kosar.
Who proved to be the better QB? The big skinny, slow stork.
So, just be aware that simply because a guy has legs like Betty Grable and an arm like a baking soda label, it doesn't necessarily mean that he is the best man for the job.
These lessons of course all come from just Browns history.
What you said is true. But THAT browns team has moved to Baltimore. This Browns have no history of success finding a QB. So based on history we should not be drafting a QB
What you said is true. But THAT browns team has moved to Baltimore. This Browns have no history of success finding a QB. So based on history we should not be drafting a QB
Fuck Off with the "Browns moved to Baltimore" bullshit.
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Gipper's thoughts are right on the money. WHY, with the Brown's numerous needs, would we give away picks for a single player?
Because Quarterback is the single most important position in sports.
A good Quarterback trumps any combination of two other positions you can put together.
Because Quarterback is the single most important position in sports.
A good Quarterback trumps any combination of two other positions you can put together.
Maybe....but a bad QB....a bust that costs you 2 first round draft choices is far more devastating to a franchise than a bust at any combination of two other positions you can put together.
Like I said, I am willing to take him at #4...or even to move up 1 or two slots as long as it costs no more than an additional 3rd round pick.
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I think if they are all busts it's pretty much the same.
I think RG3 is going to be a hit so I think we should do what it takes to get him.
If I were on the ropes about him I would not trade up for him or draft him if he is there at four.
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I think if they are all busts it's pretty much the same.
I think RG3 is going to be a hit so I think we should do what it takes to get him.
If I were on the ropes about him I would not trade up for him or draft him if he is there at four.
I think if they are all busts it's pretty much the same.
No, I think that a bust that costs you 2 first round picks is twice as bad as one that costs you 1 first round pick. Elementary my dear.
I think RG3 is going to be a hit so I think we should do what it takes to get him.
If I were on the ropes about him I would not trade up for him or draft him if he is there at four.
I would demand that you have verified certification from Nostradamus himself that RG is going to be all that before I would want to spend 2 1st round picks on him. And since Nostradamus is dead, I don't think you can deliver on that requirement..
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What you said is true. But THAT browns team has moved to Baltimore. This Browns have no history of success finding a QB. So based on history we should not be drafting a QB
Fuck Off with the "Browns moved to Baltimore" bullshit.
Fuck Off with the "Browns moved to Baltimore" bullshit.
Not sure why you're arguing this. The browns DID move to Baltimore and became the ravens. We got an expansion team and called them the browns. They ARE two different teams.
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Fuck Off with the "Browns moved to Baltimore" bullshit.
Not sure why you're arguing this. The browns DID move to Baltimore and became the ravens. We got an expansion team and called them the browns. They ARE two different teams.
Not sure why you're arguing this. The browns DID move to Baltimore and became the ravens. We got an expansion team and called them the browns. They ARE two different teams.
I argue it because you are legally, and factually wrong. Do I really have to explain it to YOU now after 17 years?
The Cleveland Browns franchise did not move the distance of one pubic hair. It stayed right here.
A new Ravens franchise was created in Baltimore. IT was the expansion franchise, not the Browns. The contracts of certain employees of the Browns was assigned to the Ravens franchise. In essence, they were traded en masse to the Ravens.
When we traded Brady Quinn to the Broncos did the Cleveland Browns become the Denver Broncos? No. And when we traded Vinny Testaverde et al to the Baltimore Ravens, the Cleveland Browns did not become the Baltimore Ravens.
And you may ask about ownership...didn't Art Modell keep ownership? The answer is no.
First off, Robert Gries and Al Lerner were part owners of the Browns. Those guys never became owners of the Ravens. So ownership was different.
And those are just a couple of the factors into why the Cleveland Browns never "became" the Ravens.
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Definition of Assignment:
a. The transfer of a claim, right, interest, or property from one to another.
The contracts, i.e. the "claim, right or interest" the Browns had in certain players were assigned to the Ravens.
Players in the NFL (and in other leagues) are essentially property which can be sold, transferred or exchanged among franchises. It happens all the time. Usually not in the scale in which the transfer of contracts were made from the Cleveland Browns to the Baltimore Ravens, but it does happen.
Similar example: Robert Irsay, owner of the Rams and Carrol Rosenblum, owner of the Colts traded franchises in the early 1970s. When that happened the Rams didn't become the Colts and the Colts didn't become the Rams, though there was some finagling going back and forth:
http://iqfb.com/league-facts/colts-and-rams-biggest-trade-in-nfl-history/
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The Browns coming back from the dead has been like the sports version of pet cemetery.
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Zombo said:
Quite simply, the Cleveland Browns didn't field a team from 1996-1998, while the Baltimore franchise began operations in 1996.
We fought hard for the team, the history and the colors to stay in Cleveland.
The Browns are the Browns. The Ravens are the Ravens.
Zombo
Yes sir.
Edit to read Ravens are the Ratbirds
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Ok the name and colors didn't move, but the team, all its management and, functionally, all its history and the lessons that foundation learned from that history DID leave. The browns returned to existence with a completely new base from the owner down.
To me, its splitting hairs. The browns became the ravens. Therefore the team did move. The franchise stayed, but the franchise is just name and colors.
Early man walked away as modern man took control. Their minds weren't all the same and to conquer was their goal. So He built his great empires and he slaughtered his own kind, and he died a confused man and killed himself in his own mind... -
Ok the name and colors didn't move, but the team, all its management and, functionally, all its history and the lessons that foundation learned from that history DID leave. The browns returned to existence with a completely new base from the owner down.
To me, its splitting hairs. The browns became the ravens. Therefore the team did move. The franchise stayed, but the franchise is just name and colors.
Ok the name and colors didn't move, but the team, all its management and, functionally, all its history and the lessons that foundation learned from that history DID leave. The browns returned to existence with a completely new base from the owner down.
To me, its splitting hairs. The browns became the ravens. Therefore the team did move. The franchise stayed, but the franchise is just name and colors.
The former Browns players became players for the new Ravens franchise. Why is that so hard to understand?
Wrong again regarding history . The history of the Browns stayed here too. Go look up who's listed as the Ravens all time leading rusher- I'll spare you the time- it's Jamaal Lewis, not Jim Brown. Ditto the leading passer- Joe Flacco, not Otto Graham.
Totally different situation when the Colts moved to Indianapolis- or the Rams moving to St Louis. The franchise, records, and the players ALL moved.
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Read again, hoorta, I didn't say the history moved I said the functional history, I.e. the movers and the shakers. The people whose jobs were to learn what they did wrong in the past and correct it. The people with experience.
Early man walked away as modern man took control. Their minds weren't all the same and to conquer was their goal. So He built his great empires and he slaughtered his own kind, and he died a confused man and killed himself in his own mind... -
Ok the name and colors didn't move, but the team, all its management and, functionally, all its history and the lessons that foundation learned from that history DID leave. The browns returned to existence with a completely new base from the owner down.
To me, its splitting hairs. The browns became the ravens. Therefore the team did move. The franchise stayed, but the franchise is just name and colors.
Ok the name and colors didn't move, but the team, all its management and, functionally, all its history and the lessons that foundation learned from that history DID leave. The browns returned to existence with a completely new base from the owner down.
To me, its splitting hairs. The browns became the ravens. Therefore the team did move. The franchise stayed, but the franchise is just name and colors.
Did you see Billy Connolly's Fuck Off video? Watch it. Learn from it.
The management left? Good. Art Modell and his son. That is it. And PR guy Kevin Byrne.
The football brains left too....because they didn't stay with Modell. There was no "base" with Modell in place dipshit.
Were you even around then? Even Ozzie Newsome was hired by Modell only after he had moved to Baltimore.
Trust me, the FOUNDATION of the Cleveland Browns did not move to Baltimore with Modell.
We have to deal with fucking stupid Steeler fans over this issue.....are you a fucking stupid Steeler fan? You are beginning to sound seriously like one.
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Read again, hoorta, I didn't say the history moved I said the functional history, I.e. the movers and the shakers. The people whose jobs were to learn what they did wrong in the past and correct it. The people with experience.
Read again, hoorta, I didn't say the history moved I said the functional history, I.e. the movers and the shakers. The people whose jobs were to learn what they did wrong in the past and correct it. The people with experience.
Those people ended up getting kicked the fuck out of the NFL. Did you forget about that?
That is the "functionality" that you would have had to look forward to.
Modell didn't "learn what he did wrong in the past and correct it". After he got bailed out financially by the 75 mill he got from Baltimore, he went right back into a whirlpool of debt. That is why he was tertiarily removed from the league.
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Everything you're saying is just a technicality. I love the browns old and new. The old te left. Go "new" browns. Why do I have to be a steeler fan to disagree with you? If you think I am please research my posts and furnish one instance where I've ever complemented the steelers on anything. Otherwise you're just talking out of your ass.
Early man walked away as modern man took control. Their minds weren't all the same and to conquer was their goal. So He built his great empires and he slaughtered his own kind, and he died a confused man and killed himself in his own mind... -
The foundation didn't move? And here I thought CLE had to start all over in 1999 as an expension franchise from the ground up.
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Read again, hoorta, I didn't say the history moved I said the functional history, I.e. the movers and the shakers. The people whose jobs were to learn what they did wrong in the past and correct it. The people with experience.
Those people ended up getting kicked the fuck out of the NFL. Did you forget about that?
That is the "functionality" that you would have had to look forward to.
Modell didn't "learn what he did wrong in the past and correct it". After he got bailed out financially by the 75 mill he got from Baltimore, he went right back into a whirlpool of debt. That is why he was tertiarily removed from the league.
Those people ended up getting kicked the fuck out of the NFL. Did you forget about that?
That is the "functionality" that you would have had to look forward to.
Modell didn't "learn what he did wrong in the past and correct it". After he got bailed out financially by the 75 mill he got from Baltimore, he went right back into a whirlpool of debt. That is why he was tertiarily removed from the league.
His team has since won the superbowl and has multiple playoff appearances. Not bad for an expansion team with no foundation or functionality.
Early man walked away as modern man took control. Their minds weren't all the same and to conquer was their goal. So He built his great empires and he slaughtered his own kind, and he died a confused man and killed himself in his own mind... -
LOL - I don't even see how this is an argument.
The Browns moved to Baltimore changed their colors,logo,name and became the Ravens.
Cleveland filed a lawsuit against the Browns to keep the history,colors,name etc.
The Ravens are not an expansion team if they were they'd of gotten the number one pick in 1996, like the expansion Browns did in 1999.
They would not have carried over rosters,coaching staff,management.
The new Browns are an expansion team that inherited the cities former teams identity, albeit under unique circumstances.
"All Truth Passes Through Three stages. First, It Is Ridiculed, Second It Is Violently Opposed, And Third, It Is Accepted As Self-Evident" ~Arthur Schopenhauer
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