Colt Mcfrye
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Well...Lets look at this a little further shall we?
Warren Moon
Randall Cunningham
Daunte Culpepper
Vince Young
Michael Vick
Donovan McNabb
What do they all have in common?....
ZERO SUPERBOWLS!!!
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To me, it couldn't be more obvious that Colt isn't ever going to be the guy and some people think he is. I think what we'll see in two years in Colt buried on a depth chart for some team and us with another QB, and people will sit and say that he "never got a real chance". I don't like doing the QB carousel anymore than any die-hard browns fan, but it needs to take another ride this time.
i don't know either if colt is going to be 'the guy'. but why waste our first pick on a guy who you don't know will be 'the guy' either? why not give it another year? really. are we in that much need of a qb this year? there's a cb sitting there whose team mate (from last year..patrick petersen...you know him. he's one of the guys we were all salivating over last year) says is a better pure corner than he ever can be. or a de who would make an immediate impact on the pass rush?
i just don't get this NEED TO HAVE or this RUSH TO JUDGEMENT that has a lot of browns fans screaming to draft RG3. there are #1 qb prospects EVERY STINKIN YEAR. why not build this team with quality picks on both sides of the ball and see what happens then at qb? hey if he shits the bed, trade him or cut him or whatever. but we'll have a pick next year to get 'the guy' who may never turn out to be 'the guy'.
i don't know either if colt is going to be 'the guy'. but why waste our first pick on a guy who you don't know will be 'the guy' either? why not give it another year? really. are we in that much need of a qb this year? there's a cb sitting there whose team mate (from last year..patrick petersen...you know him. he's one of the guys we were all salivating over last year) says is a better pure corner than he ever can be. or a de who would make an immediate impact on the pass rush?
i just don't get this NEED TO HAVE or this RUSH TO JUDGEMENT that has a lot of browns fans screaming to draft RG3. there are #1 qb prospects EVERY STINKIN YEAR. why not build this team with quality picks on both sides of the ball and see what happens then at qb? hey if he shits the bed, trade him or cut him or whatever. but we'll have a pick next year to get 'the guy' who may never turn out to be 'the guy'.
Last time I checked only 4 teams in the entire NFL allowed fewer points than the Browns. All 4 of those teams made the playoffs. Offense is our biggest need. And the most important position on offense is QB. Colt McCoy did not play well last year, neither did he show any flashes of brilliance. No one can argue that. True any pick can be a bust, but you have to be willing to take a chance on the most important position. Everything in life involves risk; marriage, jobs, driving. People who never take chances never go anywhere in life.
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Thank you for being a Retarded racist.
I didnt say anything about race asshole...YOU DID!
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You need to join this group at a tailgate sometime Nick...I like to meet the various characters on this board. Good to see you around.
At any rate, as for Colt....I don't really like the guy but it won't make me bonkers of we give him one more look.
I just think we need to have a viable option, and that isn't Wallace and whoever else was called a QB.
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I'm one who is all for giving Colt "tools" rather than drafting another QB before we REALLY see what we already have & who among us really has that type knowledge. Two years ago, we obtained one of the more successful GMs in the NFL & he (Heckert) has also done well here. I will trust the moves he makes...After all, I believe his choices will be more informed than ours, & he HAS a history of success.
Mike
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The thing about fans of mediocre players and teams is they don't know what they're missing (winning) so mediocrity becomes the standard they become most comfortable with. Drafting RGIII is way too threatening to a fanbase who celebrate mediocrity.
Read many of the posts in this thread and you know what I'm talking about.
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The thing about fans of mediocre players and teams is they don't know what they're missing (winning) so mediocrity becomes the standard they become most comfortable with. Drafting RGIII is way too threatening to a fanbase who celebrate mediocrity.
Read many of the posts in this thread and you know what I'm talking about.
The thing about fans of mediocre players and teams is they don't know what they're missing (winning) so mediocrity becomes the standard they become most comfortable with. Drafting RGIII is way too threatening to a fanbase who celebrate mediocrity.
Read many of the posts in this thread and you know what I'm talking about.
man after you reading all your posts tugging on RG3's dick all i got to say izzzzz:
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I couldn't agree more, but most people on here will like you said defend the guy to death. The learning curve for QB's isn't two years anymore, whether you want to argue it is or not. Franchise QB's show their colors from day 1, and Colt hasn't even held the jock of those guys. I ask this all the time and just something to chew on: if colt was drafted to the falcons, lions, bengals, panthers or any other team that have taken their QB early, does he succeed with "better talent"? The answer is most likely no because many of the mistakes he commits have nothing do with how bad the talent is around him.
I'm not going to sit here and argue anymore over it though. To me, it couldn't be more obvious that Colt isn't ever going to be the guy and some people think he is. I think what we'll see in two years in Colt buried on a depth chart for some team and us with another QB, and people will sit and say that he "never got a real chance". I don't like doing the QB carousel anymore than any die-hard browns fan, but it needs to take another ride this time.
I couldn't agree more, but most people on here will like you said defend the guy to death. The learning curve for QB's isn't two years anymore, whether you want to argue it is or not. Franchise QB's show their colors from day 1, and Colt hasn't even held the jock of those guys. I ask this all the time and just something to chew on: if colt was drafted to the falcons, lions, bengals, panthers or any other team that have taken their QB early, does he succeed with "better talent"? The answer is most likely no because many of the mistakes he commits have nothing do with how bad the talent is around him.
That's just it. No one knows how much better McCoy would be if he had any talent around him. We can only guess. Every QB that has had any success in their 1st year has had plenty of help around them. Every one of them. So don't tell me that a franchise QB could have "showed his true colors" with the crap offense the Browns had last year. And I don't think McCoy will be our franchise QB - I'm just saying that no rookie QB will ever succeed when they are a part of a crap offense.
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The thing about fans of mediocre players and teams is they don't know what they're missing (winning) so mediocrity becomes the standard they become most comfortable with. Drafting RGIII is way too threatening to a fanbase who celebrate mediocrity.
Read many of the posts in this thread and you know what I'm talking about.
The thing about fans of mediocre players and teams is they don't know what they're missing (winning) so mediocrity becomes the standard they become most comfortable with. Drafting RGIII is way too threatening to a fanbase who celebrate mediocrity.
Read many of the posts in this thread and you know what I'm talking about.
Haha ya and casual football fans like you think that a QB will magically bring the Browns to the Super Bowl. I'm surprised you're already over Brady Quinn..
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Zombo said:
All your guys were black ... it wasn't hard for him to figure your angle, now was it?
Doug Williams thanks you for leaving him off.
Zombo
I left Air McNair off too...but Duly noted...and Doung Williams...big fucking deal...a blind squirl finds am acorn once in awhile.
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The thing about fans of mediocre players and teams is they don't know what they're missing (winning) so mediocrity becomes the standard they become most comfortable with. Drafting RGIII is way too threatening to a fanbase who celebrate mediocrity.
Read many of the posts in this thread and you know what I'm talking about.
The thing about fans of mediocre players and teams is they don't know what they're missing (winning) so mediocrity becomes the standard they become most comfortable with. Drafting RGIII is way too threatening to a fanbase who celebrate mediocrity.
Read many of the posts in this thread and you know what I'm talking about.
You are not a Browns fan. You don't know your dick from your cunt (though as a eunuch you may have neither) when you are talking about the Browns.
You are an RGIII fan.
So my question is: why does it matter to you which team RGIII goes to? You will follow whatever team that is, be it the Redskins/Dolphins/Browns etc.
And remember this: we fans don't have a goddam thing to do about the record of the teams we follow. It doesn't matter a whit what we think about the situation with RGIII. We don't count. Only Holmgren, Heckert, Shurmur and Lerner's opinions count.
If there is mediocrity in the Browns program (and there certainly has been over the years) the responsibility for that falls on Randy Lerner and Art Modell before that.
Direct your bullshit to them, not to us. All we can do is watch and hope they win...that's ALL.
I doubt seriously that you know what it is like to follow a team that has been mired in such mediocrity, for I am absolutely certain that you are what we call a FRAK. A FrontRunnerAssKisser who will jump on the bandwagon of whatever team...or player, happens to be hot at the moment.
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Tim Couch outperformed Colt McCoy as a rookie with less talent around him.
Z,
Good call on the race angle... if there was any doubt with his first list, nickers erased it with his last. On the other hand...
Are you really asserting that Farve "ran" the WCO? Especially in his young days it would be hard to detect him running any cohesive Offense.
As for the other two, could it be that Montana and Young, who did run the WCO, had a few more weapons?
As for the how many more seasons would I give Colt... my answer is one.
Tim Couch outperformed Colt McCoy as a rookie with less talent around him.
Including a lack of any semblance of a running game, which Colt had in the piece of his rookie season he played.
browns kill QBs more than any team i can think of. oh and here are the fans: "he sucks one year trade/cut him the next."[/b]
Think at all and you'd name first name any Martz offense. He literally gets his QB's killed. Also the expansion Texans and their complete destruction of David Carr have to be high on the list.
@king-ghoolie-lives said:
The issue is, until the Browns are involved on routine basis ... among the teams who draft the hottest prospects...THAT is a recipe for disaster if I've ever seen one...
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STACK the offense with draft picks this year and give McCoy an actual threatening offensive attack with Little, two more new wrs from the draft, a fast HB, hillis, a RT and man I think we have something.
Football is sport that is a TEAM one, not just a QB. A QB in a built up system does better than a QB just coming into a new system in his rookie year. McCoy will be fine.
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STACK the offense with draft picks this year and give McCoy an actual threatening offensive attack with Little, two more new wrs from the draft, a fast HB, hillis, a RT and man I think we have something.
Football is sport that is a TEAM one, not just a QB. A QB in a built up system does better than a QB just coming into a new system in his rookie year. McCoy will be fine.
STACK the offense with draft picks this year and give McCoy an actual threatening offensive attack with Little, two more new wrs from the draft, a fast HB, hillis, a RT and man I think we have something.
Football is sport that is a TEAM one, not just a QB. A QB in a built up system does better than a QB just coming into a new system in his rookie year. McCoy will be fine.
So what happens if you do what you suggested, all the picks and FA moves pan out, but CLE finds out that McCoy is not the answer, but the team is good enough to win say 6 or 7 games? You are then too far back in the draft to have a shot at a percieved elite QB without then having to trade far more picks to move up than you would this year.
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STACK the offense with draft picks this year and give McCoy an actual threatening offensive attack with Little, two more new wrs from the draft, a fast HB, hillis, a RT and man I think we have something.
Football is sport that is a TEAM one, not just a QB. A QB in a built up system does better than a QB just coming into a new system in his rookie year. McCoy will be fine.
So what happens if you do what you suggested, all the picks and FA moves pan out, but CLE finds out that McCoy is not the answer, but the team is good enough to win say 6 or 7 games? You are then too far back in the draft to have a shot at a percieved elite QB without then having to trade far more picks to move up than you would this year.
So what happens if you do what you suggested, all the picks and FA moves pan out, but CLE finds out that McCoy is not the answer, but the team is good enough to win say 6 or 7 games? You are then too far back in the draft to have a shot at a percieved elite QB without then having to trade far more picks to move up than you would this year.
So if that does happen, you have proof that McCoy isnt the answer because he does have weapons around him, but through film if we see that it his HIS fault we're losing games, then you draft a #1 QB who will already be in a system that, even with a mediocre QB, can win 7 games. this is why matt cassel took the pats to the playoffs with Brady gone, its the system. take big gay ben from the steelers and you STILL have a threatening offense that beat the browns. the qb is the crank that turns the rest of the polished parts in sequence. We dont have polished parts, making the crank that is the qb useless until it can run something pretty and worth watching. soooo, lets keep polishing our parts, not restart building the machine again!
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Also, if we dont even see a minuscule amount of improvement from McCoy next year, which I'm very confident we will, then thats an easy dump. BUT, dumping McCoy because of this year's season is not right. So many other things went wrong and need to be fixed with this team that ppl convince themselves it will all be fixed with a 1st round qb.
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So what happens if you do what you suggested, all the picks and FA moves pan out, but CLE finds out that McCoy is not the answer, but the team is good enough to win say 6 or 7 games? You are then too far back in the draft to have a shot at a percieved elite QB without then having to trade far more picks to move up than you would this year.
So if that does happen, you have proof that McCoy isnt the answer because he does have weapons around him, but through film if we see that it his HIS fault we're losing games, then you draft a #1 QB who will already be in a system that, even with a mediocre QB, can win 7 games. this is why matt cassel took the pats to the playoffs with Brady gone, its the system. take big gay ben from the steelers and you STILL have a threatening offense that beat the browns. the qb is the crank that turns the rest of the polished parts in sequence. We dont have polished parts, making the crank that is the qb useless until it can run something pretty and worth watching. soooo, lets keep polishing our parts, not restart building the machine again!
So if that does happen, you have proof that McCoy isnt the answer because he does have weapons around him, but through film if we see that it his HIS fault we're losing games, then you draft a #1 QB who will already be in a system that, even with a mediocre QB, can win 7 games. this is why matt cassel took the pats to the playoffs with Brady gone, its the system. take big gay ben from the steelers and you STILL have a threatening offense that beat the browns. the qb is the crank that turns the rest of the polished parts in sequence. We dont have polished parts, making the crank that is the qb useless until it can run something pretty and worth watching. soooo, lets keep polishing our parts, not restart building the machine again!
You don't need all those weapons around him to tell on film what is his fault or not. Coaches can seperate the QBs mistakes from the other players mistakes. More so than any of us because a) they have game film from the endzone cam so they see the whole field
they know what play was actually called and what every player was supposed to do. No coaching staff at any level requires a QB or any other position to be surrounded by "better talent" to evaluate the play of other players at their position.On to the other part, so how do you drft that #1 QB w/o then having to sacrifice much more than you have to today? If you are a 6 or 7 win team you are sitting too far back in the draft order to have a shot at drafting one of the top QBs. Then you get into trading away much more to move up.
I'd agree NE showed there is a whole lot about their system which allowed Cassel to have the success he did. But you remove Ben from PIT and that offense is not very good at all.
The good QBs far more often make the other parts around them look better than the other way around.
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Zombo said:
Brady Quinn couldn't engineer a TD drive to save his life in Chuds system while Cam Newton blew up in the same system in one year. Some guys got it, some don't. It is looking increasingly likely that Colt doesn't ... how many years do you want to waste before you know for sure?
Zombo
Brady Quinn does suck. We agree there. But Cam Newton didn't "blow up the system" because he's got it and some others don't. Newton was actually surrounded by talent on offense: DeAngelo Williams and Jon Stewart as RBs, Steve Smith as a true #1 WR, 2 starting caliber TEs in Jeremy Shockey and Greg Olsen, a 1st round LT (8th overall), and a 2nd round center. That is why he had success this past year. It is the same for any QB that has had any early success.
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So if that does happen, you have proof that McCoy isnt the answer because he does have weapons around him, but through film if we see that it his HIS fault we're losing games, then you draft a #1 QB who will already be in a system that, even with a mediocre QB, can win 7 games. this is why matt cassel took the pats to the playoffs with Brady gone, its the system. take big gay ben from the steelers and you STILL have a threatening offense that beat the browns. the qb is the crank that turns the rest of the polished parts in sequence. We dont have polished parts, making the crank that is the qb useless until it can run something pretty and worth watching. soooo, lets keep polishing our parts, not restart building the machine again!
You don't need all those weapons around him to tell on film what is his fault or not. Coaches can seperate the QBs mistakes from the other players mistakes. More so than any of us because a) they have game film from the endzone cam so they see the whole field
they know what play was actually called and what every player was supposed to do. No coaching staff at any level requires a QB or any other position to be surrounded by "better talent" to evaluate the play of other players at their position.On to the other part, so how do you drft that #1 QB w/o then having to sacrifice much more than you have to today? If you are a 6 or 7 win team you are sitting too far back in the draft order to have a shot at drafting one of the top QBs. Then you get into trading away much more to move up.
I'd agree NE showed there is a whole lot about their system which allowed Cassel to have the success he did. But you remove Ben from PIT and that offense is not very good at all.
The good QBs far more often make the other parts around them look better than the other way around.
You don't need all those weapons around him to tell on film what is his fault or not. Coaches can seperate the QBs mistakes from the other players mistakes. More so than any of us because a) they have game film from the endzone cam so they see the whole field
they know what play was actually called and what every player was supposed to do. No coaching staff at any level requires a QB or any other position to be surrounded by "better talent" to evaluate the play of other players at their position.On to the other part, so how do you drft that #1 QB w/o then having to sacrafice much more than you have to today? If you are a 6 or 7 win team you are sitting too far back in teh draft order to have a shot at drafting one of the top QBs. Then you get into trading away much more to move up.
I'd agree NE showed there is a whole lot about their system which allowed Cassel to have the success he did. But you remove Ben from PIT and that offense is not very good at all.
The good QBs far more often make the other parts around them look better than the other way around.
sanchez with the jets? dalton with the bengals? smith with the 49ers? flacco with the ravens? those qbs had systems laid out for them, and they are mediocre qbs. but with solid recievers, a run game, and a decent line with a good defense they have all the right ingredients to "look good" at qb and put their team in the best position to win. best example of this is dalton. he has jermaine gresham, simpson, shipley, and aj frickin green to throw to in his rookie year. how can u say the QB makes the recievers? the qb looks like shit if the recievers drop the ball or dont get open. the bengals beat the browns cause they have a system that was set up with palmer and ocho. The browns switch things up every 2 years giving no stability to build on. its the opposite with cincy, and look, they made the playoffs
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