Colt Mcfrye
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Zombo said:
All your guys were black ... it wasn't hard for him to figure your angle, now was it?
Doug Williams thanks you for leaving him off.
Zombo
I left Air McNair off too...but Duly noted...and Doung Williams...big fucking deal...a blind squirl finds am acorn once in awhile.
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The thing about fans of mediocre players and teams is they don't know what they're missing (winning) so mediocrity becomes the standard they become most comfortable with. Drafting RGIII is way too threatening to a fanbase who celebrate mediocrity.
Read many of the posts in this thread and you know what I'm talking about.
The thing about fans of mediocre players and teams is they don't know what they're missing (winning) so mediocrity becomes the standard they become most comfortable with. Drafting RGIII is way too threatening to a fanbase who celebrate mediocrity.
Read many of the posts in this thread and you know what I'm talking about.
You are not a Browns fan. You don't know your dick from your cunt (though as a eunuch you may have neither) when you are talking about the Browns.
You are an RGIII fan.
So my question is: why does it matter to you which team RGIII goes to? You will follow whatever team that is, be it the Redskins/Dolphins/Browns etc.
And remember this: we fans don't have a goddam thing to do about the record of the teams we follow. It doesn't matter a whit what we think about the situation with RGIII. We don't count. Only Holmgren, Heckert, Shurmur and Lerner's opinions count.
If there is mediocrity in the Browns program (and there certainly has been over the years) the responsibility for that falls on Randy Lerner and Art Modell before that.
Direct your bullshit to them, not to us. All we can do is watch and hope they win...that's ALL.
I doubt seriously that you know what it is like to follow a team that has been mired in such mediocrity, for I am absolutely certain that you are what we call a FRAK. A FrontRunnerAssKisser who will jump on the bandwagon of whatever team...or player, happens to be hot at the moment.
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Tim Couch outperformed Colt McCoy as a rookie with less talent around him.
Z,
Good call on the race angle... if there was any doubt with his first list, nickers erased it with his last. On the other hand...
Are you really asserting that Farve "ran" the WCO? Especially in his young days it would be hard to detect him running any cohesive Offense.
As for the other two, could it be that Montana and Young, who did run the WCO, had a few more weapons?
As for the how many more seasons would I give Colt... my answer is one.
Tim Couch outperformed Colt McCoy as a rookie with less talent around him.
Including a lack of any semblance of a running game, which Colt had in the piece of his rookie season he played.
browns kill QBs more than any team i can think of. oh and here are the fans: "he sucks one year trade/cut him the next."[/b]
Think at all and you'd name first name any Martz offense. He literally gets his QB's killed. Also the expansion Texans and their complete destruction of David Carr have to be high on the list.
@king-ghoolie-lives said:
The issue is, until the Browns are involved on routine basis ... among the teams who draft the hottest prospects...THAT is a recipe for disaster if I've ever seen one...
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STACK the offense with draft picks this year and give McCoy an actual threatening offensive attack with Little, two more new wrs from the draft, a fast HB, hillis, a RT and man I think we have something.
Football is sport that is a TEAM one, not just a QB. A QB in a built up system does better than a QB just coming into a new system in his rookie year. McCoy will be fine.
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STACK the offense with draft picks this year and give McCoy an actual threatening offensive attack with Little, two more new wrs from the draft, a fast HB, hillis, a RT and man I think we have something.
Football is sport that is a TEAM one, not just a QB. A QB in a built up system does better than a QB just coming into a new system in his rookie year. McCoy will be fine.
STACK the offense with draft picks this year and give McCoy an actual threatening offensive attack with Little, two more new wrs from the draft, a fast HB, hillis, a RT and man I think we have something.
Football is sport that is a TEAM one, not just a QB. A QB in a built up system does better than a QB just coming into a new system in his rookie year. McCoy will be fine.
So what happens if you do what you suggested, all the picks and FA moves pan out, but CLE finds out that McCoy is not the answer, but the team is good enough to win say 6 or 7 games? You are then too far back in the draft to have a shot at a percieved elite QB without then having to trade far more picks to move up than you would this year.
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STACK the offense with draft picks this year and give McCoy an actual threatening offensive attack with Little, two more new wrs from the draft, a fast HB, hillis, a RT and man I think we have something.
Football is sport that is a TEAM one, not just a QB. A QB in a built up system does better than a QB just coming into a new system in his rookie year. McCoy will be fine.
So what happens if you do what you suggested, all the picks and FA moves pan out, but CLE finds out that McCoy is not the answer, but the team is good enough to win say 6 or 7 games? You are then too far back in the draft to have a shot at a percieved elite QB without then having to trade far more picks to move up than you would this year.
So what happens if you do what you suggested, all the picks and FA moves pan out, but CLE finds out that McCoy is not the answer, but the team is good enough to win say 6 or 7 games? You are then too far back in the draft to have a shot at a percieved elite QB without then having to trade far more picks to move up than you would this year.
So if that does happen, you have proof that McCoy isnt the answer because he does have weapons around him, but through film if we see that it his HIS fault we're losing games, then you draft a #1 QB who will already be in a system that, even with a mediocre QB, can win 7 games. this is why matt cassel took the pats to the playoffs with Brady gone, its the system. take big gay ben from the steelers and you STILL have a threatening offense that beat the browns. the qb is the crank that turns the rest of the polished parts in sequence. We dont have polished parts, making the crank that is the qb useless until it can run something pretty and worth watching. soooo, lets keep polishing our parts, not restart building the machine again!
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Also, if we dont even see a minuscule amount of improvement from McCoy next year, which I'm very confident we will, then thats an easy dump. BUT, dumping McCoy because of this year's season is not right. So many other things went wrong and need to be fixed with this team that ppl convince themselves it will all be fixed with a 1st round qb.
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So what happens if you do what you suggested, all the picks and FA moves pan out, but CLE finds out that McCoy is not the answer, but the team is good enough to win say 6 or 7 games? You are then too far back in the draft to have a shot at a percieved elite QB without then having to trade far more picks to move up than you would this year.
So if that does happen, you have proof that McCoy isnt the answer because he does have weapons around him, but through film if we see that it his HIS fault we're losing games, then you draft a #1 QB who will already be in a system that, even with a mediocre QB, can win 7 games. this is why matt cassel took the pats to the playoffs with Brady gone, its the system. take big gay ben from the steelers and you STILL have a threatening offense that beat the browns. the qb is the crank that turns the rest of the polished parts in sequence. We dont have polished parts, making the crank that is the qb useless until it can run something pretty and worth watching. soooo, lets keep polishing our parts, not restart building the machine again!
So if that does happen, you have proof that McCoy isnt the answer because he does have weapons around him, but through film if we see that it his HIS fault we're losing games, then you draft a #1 QB who will already be in a system that, even with a mediocre QB, can win 7 games. this is why matt cassel took the pats to the playoffs with Brady gone, its the system. take big gay ben from the steelers and you STILL have a threatening offense that beat the browns. the qb is the crank that turns the rest of the polished parts in sequence. We dont have polished parts, making the crank that is the qb useless until it can run something pretty and worth watching. soooo, lets keep polishing our parts, not restart building the machine again!
You don't need all those weapons around him to tell on film what is his fault or not. Coaches can seperate the QBs mistakes from the other players mistakes. More so than any of us because a) they have game film from the endzone cam so they see the whole field
they know what play was actually called and what every player was supposed to do. No coaching staff at any level requires a QB or any other position to be surrounded by "better talent" to evaluate the play of other players at their position.On to the other part, so how do you drft that #1 QB w/o then having to sacrifice much more than you have to today? If you are a 6 or 7 win team you are sitting too far back in the draft order to have a shot at drafting one of the top QBs. Then you get into trading away much more to move up.
I'd agree NE showed there is a whole lot about their system which allowed Cassel to have the success he did. But you remove Ben from PIT and that offense is not very good at all.
The good QBs far more often make the other parts around them look better than the other way around.
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Zombo said:
Brady Quinn couldn't engineer a TD drive to save his life in Chuds system while Cam Newton blew up in the same system in one year. Some guys got it, some don't. It is looking increasingly likely that Colt doesn't ... how many years do you want to waste before you know for sure?
Zombo
Brady Quinn does suck. We agree there. But Cam Newton didn't "blow up the system" because he's got it and some others don't. Newton was actually surrounded by talent on offense: DeAngelo Williams and Jon Stewart as RBs, Steve Smith as a true #1 WR, 2 starting caliber TEs in Jeremy Shockey and Greg Olsen, a 1st round LT (8th overall), and a 2nd round center. That is why he had success this past year. It is the same for any QB that has had any early success.
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So if that does happen, you have proof that McCoy isnt the answer because he does have weapons around him, but through film if we see that it his HIS fault we're losing games, then you draft a #1 QB who will already be in a system that, even with a mediocre QB, can win 7 games. this is why matt cassel took the pats to the playoffs with Brady gone, its the system. take big gay ben from the steelers and you STILL have a threatening offense that beat the browns. the qb is the crank that turns the rest of the polished parts in sequence. We dont have polished parts, making the crank that is the qb useless until it can run something pretty and worth watching. soooo, lets keep polishing our parts, not restart building the machine again!
You don't need all those weapons around him to tell on film what is his fault or not. Coaches can seperate the QBs mistakes from the other players mistakes. More so than any of us because a) they have game film from the endzone cam so they see the whole field
they know what play was actually called and what every player was supposed to do. No coaching staff at any level requires a QB or any other position to be surrounded by "better talent" to evaluate the play of other players at their position.On to the other part, so how do you drft that #1 QB w/o then having to sacrifice much more than you have to today? If you are a 6 or 7 win team you are sitting too far back in the draft order to have a shot at drafting one of the top QBs. Then you get into trading away much more to move up.
I'd agree NE showed there is a whole lot about their system which allowed Cassel to have the success he did. But you remove Ben from PIT and that offense is not very good at all.
The good QBs far more often make the other parts around them look better than the other way around.
You don't need all those weapons around him to tell on film what is his fault or not. Coaches can seperate the QBs mistakes from the other players mistakes. More so than any of us because a) they have game film from the endzone cam so they see the whole field
they know what play was actually called and what every player was supposed to do. No coaching staff at any level requires a QB or any other position to be surrounded by "better talent" to evaluate the play of other players at their position.On to the other part, so how do you drft that #1 QB w/o then having to sacrafice much more than you have to today? If you are a 6 or 7 win team you are sitting too far back in teh draft order to have a shot at drafting one of the top QBs. Then you get into trading away much more to move up.
I'd agree NE showed there is a whole lot about their system which allowed Cassel to have the success he did. But you remove Ben from PIT and that offense is not very good at all.
The good QBs far more often make the other parts around them look better than the other way around.
sanchez with the jets? dalton with the bengals? smith with the 49ers? flacco with the ravens? those qbs had systems laid out for them, and they are mediocre qbs. but with solid recievers, a run game, and a decent line with a good defense they have all the right ingredients to "look good" at qb and put their team in the best position to win. best example of this is dalton. he has jermaine gresham, simpson, shipley, and aj frickin green to throw to in his rookie year. how can u say the QB makes the recievers? the qb looks like shit if the recievers drop the ball or dont get open. the bengals beat the browns cause they have a system that was set up with palmer and ocho. The browns switch things up every 2 years giving no stability to build on. its the opposite with cincy, and look, they made the playoffs
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You don't need all those weapons around him to tell on film what is his fault or not. Coaches can seperate the QBs mistakes from the other players mistakes. More so than any of us because a) they have game film from the endzone cam so they see the whole field
they know what play was actually called and what every player was supposed to do. No coaching staff at any level requires a QB or any other position to be surrounded by "better talent" to evaluate the play of other players at their position.On to the other part, so how do you drft that #1 QB w/o then having to sacrafice much more than you have to today? If you are a 6 or 7 win team you are sitting too far back in teh draft order to have a shot at drafting one of the top QBs. Then you get into trading away much more to move up.
I'd agree NE showed there is a whole lot about their system which allowed Cassel to have the success he did. But you remove Ben from PIT and that offense is not very good at all.
The good QBs far more often make the other parts around them look better than the other way around.
sanchez with the jets? dalton with the bengals? smith with the 49ers? flacco with the ravens? those qbs had systems laid out for them, and they are mediocre qbs. but with solid recievers, a run game, and a decent line with a good defense they have all the right ingredients to "look good" at qb and put their team in the best position to win. best example of this is dalton. he has jermaine gresham, simpson, shipley, and aj frickin green to throw to in his rookie year. how can u say the QB makes the recievers? the qb looks like shit if the recievers drop the ball or dont get open. the bengals beat the browns cause they have a system that was set up with palmer and ocho. The browns switch things up every 2 years giving no stability to build on. its the opposite with cincy, and look, they made the playoffs
sanchez with the jets? dalton with the bengals? smith with the 49ers? flacco with the ravens? those qbs had systems laid out for them, and they are mediocre qbs. but with solid recievers, a run game, and a decent line with a good defense they have all the right ingredients to "look good" at qb and put their team in the best position to win. best example of this is dalton. he has jermaine gresham, simpson, shipley, and aj frickin green to throw to in his rookie year. how can u say the QB makes the recievers? the qb looks like shit if the recievers drop the ball or dont get open. the bengals beat the browns cause they have a system that was set up with palmer and ocho. The browns switch things up every 2 years giving no stability to build on. its the opposite with cincy, and look, they made the playoffs
With Sanchez and Smith, I am not sure what exactly you are getting at, other than both of those guys aren't elite players, even with good surrounding parts. So in both of those case they neither made the players around them look better, nor did the players around them look better. Neither looks good as far as I am concerned (especially Sanchez whose shown no progress at all). Flacco, he's a decent QB, but I don't think he'll ever be in that upper elite catagory. He was still able to develop and perform long before BALT added Boldin and Smith this past year.
Yes, Dalton looked pretty decent as a rookie, and those two pieces around him helped with that.
I did not say the QB makes the receivers. What I said was "The good QBs far more often make the other parts around them look better than the other way around." You can't plug in any QB in NE and get the same production Brady gets w/ what ever they trot out for him. You don't get the NO offense with out Brees. You don't get Indys offensive production without Peyton (as we just saw). Look how MIN looked with and without Favre. Look how CHI looks with Cutler. Look how ARZ looked when you removed Warner. The list goes on.
Cincy last year ran a completely different offensive system than when Plamer and Ocho cinco were there. You really think changing OC who brings in a WCO (not what they ran before), changing the QB, and changing your two starting WRS is not switching everything up?
I don't judge how Colt or any QB looks based on what's in the stat sheet (which is impacted by the drops or guys not getting open). I look at a) could they identify the proper pre-snap read (where pressure is coming from, what coverage look they were given)
did they make the proper protection call c) what did they do post snap read and where did they go with the ball. d) are they showing progress in development and understanding of all those things. When I look at a Colt or a Sanchez (as examples) I see a whole lot more of No's to those four items than yes. None of those items are impacted by the talent around them, as far as the decision making process. You can pull 4 guys off the street and have them run the routes. You can still evaluate if the QB is understanding what he sees and then reacting to it the way he needs to. You can throw 3 straight incompletes and them all still be the right play with the football. Just as you can get 3 straight completesion and all three of them be the wrong play with the football. -
Zombo said:
Brady Quinn couldn't engineer a TD drive to save his life in Chuds system while Cam Newton blew up in the same system in one year. Some guys got it, some don't. It is looking increasingly likely that Colt doesn't ... how many years do you want to waste before you know for sure?
Zombo
Brady Quinn does suck. We agree there. But Cam Newton didn't "blow up the system" because he's got it and some others don't. Newton was actually surrounded by talent on offense: DeAngelo Williams and Jon Stewart as RBs, Steve Smith as a true #1 WR, 2 starting caliber TEs in Jeremy Shockey and Greg Olsen, a 1st round LT (8th overall), and a 2nd round center. That is why he had success this past year. It is the same for any QB that has had any early success.
Brady Quinn does suck. We agree there. But Cam Newton didn't "blow up the system" because he's got it and some others don't. Newton was actually surrounded by talent on offense: DeAngelo Williams and Jon Stewart as RBs, Steve Smith as a true #1 WR, 2 starting caliber TEs in Jeremy Shockey and Greg Olsen, a 1st round LT (8th overall), and a 2nd round center. That is why he had success this past year. It is the same for any QB that has had any early success.
CAR also had almost every one of those pieces the year before and were near the bottom of the league in offense.
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Zombo said:
So, really what is your point? Don't draft a black QB because only one black qb won a Super Bowl and he just got lucky?
Yeah, McNair and McNabb made it too. McNair's receiver got tackled at the one yard line because McNair was black. Donovan McNabb's blackness caused the Eagles to lose by a field goal to the Patriots.
If you look for the best comparison for Robert Griffin: size, speed, arm, intelligence, etc ... it's Steve Young. Or a smarter Bret Favre. Or a bigger-armed Joe Montana. Of course, they all won Super Bowls because they were white, not because they were awesome QBs commanding the same West Coast system we run.
Zombo
no...McNabb lost cuz he choked and the balls that he threw went to the turf...Comparing RG3 to Young and Montana is stupid...He hasnt done anything. McNair and Moon I liked. I felt bad they didnt get a ring...Especially McNair because he was a tough bastard....What Im sick of are these run first mentallity QB's that aint won jack diddle...like Cunningham,Vick,etc.
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sanchez with the jets? dalton with the bengals? smith with the 49ers? flacco with the ravens? those qbs had systems laid out for them, and they are mediocre qbs. but with solid recievers, a run game, and a decent line with a good defense they have all the right ingredients to "look good" at qb and put their team in the best position to win. best example of this is dalton. he has jermaine gresham, simpson, shipley, and aj frickin green to throw to in his rookie year. how can u say the QB makes the recievers? the qb looks like shit if the recievers drop the ball or dont get open. the bengals beat the browns cause they have a system that was set up with palmer and ocho. The browns switch things up every 2 years giving no stability to build on. its the opposite with cincy, and look, they made the playoffs
With Sanchez and Smith, I am not sure what exactly you are getting at, other than both of those guys aren't elite players, even with good surrounding parts. So in both of those case they neither made the players around them look better, nor did the players around them look better. Neither looks good as far as I am concerned (especially Sanchez whose shown no progress at all). Flacco, he's a decent QB, but I don't think he'll ever be in that upper elite catagory. He was still able to develop and perform long before BALT added Boldin and Smith this past year.
Yes, Dalton looked pretty decent as a rookie, and those two pieces around him helped with that.
I did not say the QB makes the receivers. What I said was "The good QBs far more often make the other parts around them look better than the other way around." You can't plug in any QB in NE and get the same production Brady gets w/ what ever they trot out for him. You don't get the NO offense with out Brees. You don't get Indys offensive production without Peyton (as we just saw). Look how MIN looked with and without Favre. Look how CHI looks with Cutler. Look how ARZ looked when you removed Warner. The list goes on.
Cincy last year ran a completely different offensive system than when Plamer and Ocho cinco were there. You really think changing OC who brings in a WCO (not what they ran before), changing the QB, and changing your two starting WRS is not switching everything up?
I don't judge how Colt or any QB looks based on what's in the stat sheet (which is impacted by the drops or guys not getting open). I look at a) could they identify the proper pre-snap read (where pressure is coming from, what coverage look they were given)
did they make the proper protection call c) what did they do post snap read and where did they go with the ball. d) are they showing progress in development and understanding of all those things. When I look at a Colt or a Sanchez (as examples) I see a whole lot more of No's to those four items than yes. None of those items are impacted by the talent around them, as far as the decision making process. You can pull 4 guys off the street and have them run the routes. You can still evaluate if the QB is understanding what he sees and then reacting to it the way he needs to. You can throw 3 straight incompletes and them all still be the right play with the football. Just as you can get 3 straight completesion and all three of them be the wrong play with the football.With Sanchez and Smith, I am not sure what exactly you are getting at, other than both of those guys aren't elite players, even with good surrounding parts. So in both of those case they neither made the players around them look better, nor did the players around them look better. Neither looks good as far as I am concerned (especially Sanchez whose shown no progress at all). Flacco, he's a decent QB, but I don't think he'll ever be in that upper elite catagory. He was still able to develop and perform long before BALT added Boldin and Smith this past year.
Yes, Dalton looked pretty decent as a rookie, and those two pieces around him helped with that.
I did not say the QB makes the receivers. What I said was "The good QBs far more often make the other parts around them look better than the other way around." You can't plug in any QB in NE and get the same production Brady gets w/ what ever they trot out for him. You don't get the NO offense with out Brees. You don't get Indys offensive production without Peyton (as we just saw). Look how MIN looked with and without Favre. Look how CHI looks with Cutler. Look how ARZ looked when you removed Warner. The list goes on.
Cincy last year ran a completely different offensive system than when Plamer and Ocho cinco were there. You really think changing OC who brings in a WCO (not what they ran before), changing the QB, and changing your two starting WRS is not switching everything up?
I don't judge how Colt or any QB looks based on what's in the stat sheet (which is impacted by the drops or guys not getting open). I look at a) could they identify the proper pre-snap read (where pressure is coming from, what coverage look they were given)
did they make the proper protection call c) what did they do post snap read and where did they go with the ball. d) are they showing progress in development and understanding of all those things. When I look at a Colt or a Sanchez (as examples) I see a whole lot more of No's to those four items than yes. None of those items are impacted by the talent around them, as far as the decision making process. You can pull 4 guys off the street and have them run the routes. You can still evaluate if the QB is understanding what he sees and then reacting to it the way he needs to. You can throw 3 straight incompletes and them all still be the right play with the football. Just as you can get 3 straight completesion and all three of them be the wrong play with the football.cincy didnt change anything with their personnel except ocho palmer and TO. cuz those guys were garbage. i don't think colt is. why? cause he had the shittiest offense in the league to work with! if colt would've come into the bengals offense, would he of looked as bad? hell if he was on the colts even, do you really think he would've been just as bad? put colt on ANY TEAM other than the browns and I think he does much much better. why? cuz the browns O suckED. our offense was laughable with only Greg Little, a rookie wr without playing a senior year of college football, being our passing threat? and hillis missing 10 games didnt do anything to slow colt down. having a 3rd string rb try set up the pass with the run. NONE of us have any room to judge colt off this past year. its as simple as that. colt only threw 13 tds and 12 ints. with as bad a passing attack we had, Colt didn't do bad, just not as good as the expectations were that year. we were expectin 12-4 and the playoffs last year. no wonder ppl are saying Colts terrible. its not fair to colt at all. he will be fine. He's the next Drew Brees. Give. It. Time. Colt's head is dead set on improvement, he wants to win so bad. he has something to fight for
and think about colt leading Indianapolis, or Cincy, or a team that has SOMETHING. it would be different man, so different.
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With Sanchez and Smith, I am not sure what exactly you are getting at, other than both of those guys aren't elite players, even with good surrounding parts. So in both of those case they neither made the players around them look better, nor did the players around them look better. Neither looks good as far as I am concerned (especially Sanchez whose shown no progress at all). Flacco, he's a decent QB, but I don't think he'll ever be in that upper elite catagory. He was still able to develop and perform long before BALT added Boldin and Smith this past year.
Yes, Dalton looked pretty decent as a rookie, and those two pieces around him helped with that.
I did not say the QB makes the receivers. What I said was "The good QBs far more often make the other parts around them look better than the other way around." You can't plug in any QB in NE and get the same production Brady gets w/ what ever they trot out for him. You don't get the NO offense with out Brees. You don't get Indys offensive production without Peyton (as we just saw). Look how MIN looked with and without Favre. Look how CHI looks with Cutler. Look how ARZ looked when you removed Warner. The list goes on.
Cincy last year ran a completely different offensive system than when Plamer and Ocho cinco were there. You really think changing OC who brings in a WCO (not what they ran before), changing the QB, and changing your two starting WRS is not switching everything up?
I don't judge how Colt or any QB looks based on what's in the stat sheet (which is impacted by the drops or guys not getting open). I look at a) could they identify the proper pre-snap read (where pressure is coming from, what coverage look they were given)
did they make the proper protection call c) what did they do post snap read and where did they go with the ball. d) are they showing progress in development and understanding of all those things. When I look at a Colt or a Sanchez (as examples) I see a whole lot more of No's to those four items than yes. None of those items are impacted by the talent around them, as far as the decision making process. You can pull 4 guys off the street and have them run the routes. You can still evaluate if the QB is understanding what he sees and then reacting to it the way he needs to. You can throw 3 straight incompletes and them all still be the right play with the football. Just as you can get 3 straight completesion and all three of them be the wrong play with the football.cincy didnt change anything with their personnel except ocho palmer and TO. cuz those guys were garbage. i don't think colt is. why? cause he had the shittiest offense in the league to work with! if colt would've come into the bengals offense, would he of looked as bad? hell if he was on the colts even, do you really think he would've been just as bad? put colt on ANY TEAM other than the browns and I think he does much much better. why? cuz the browns O suckED. our offense was laughable with only Greg Little, a rookie wr without playing a senior year of college football, being our passing threat? and hillis missing 10 games didnt do anything to slow colt down. having a 3rd string rb try set up the pass with the run. NONE of us have any room to judge colt off this past year. its as simple as that. colt only threw 13 tds and 12 ints. with as bad a passing attack we had, Colt didn't do bad, just not as good as the expectations were that year. we were expectin 12-4 and the playoffs last year. no wonder ppl are saying Colts terrible. its not fair to colt at all. he will be fine. He's the next Drew Brees. Give. It. Time. Colt's head is dead set on improvement, he wants to win so bad. he has something to fight for
and think about colt leading Indianapolis, or Cincy, or a team that has SOMETHING. it would be different man, so different.
cincy didnt change anything with their personnel except ocho palmer and TO. cuz those guys were garbage.
I didn't say they did change more w/ their offensive personal than those 3 guys. Those were the starting QB and two starting WRs (bringing in Green is also a change). So they went from a Palmer, Ocho, and TO as their starting QB and WRs to Dalton, Green, and Simpson as their starting QB and WRs. That's a significant change on O though. Then there is the whole new offense (which is basically the same O CLE is implementing). Not sure I'd call all three of those guys garbage, and had Palmer not decided to force his way out of Cincy we wouldn't be talking about Dalton and Cincy in the same statements.
i don't think colt is. why? cause he had the shittiest offense in the league to work with! if colt would've come into the bengals offense, would he of looked as bad? hell if he was on the colts even, do you really think he would've been just as bad? put colt on ANY TEAM other than the browns and I think he does much much better. why? cuz the browns O suckED.
Let me be clear, I do not think Colt is garbage. I simply don't think he is going to develop into an elite NFL QB and his ceiling looks to be a solid 2nd string QB. I think Colt looks only slightly better you put him in Cincy, only because a guy like Green can make a bad pass look like a good one by simply out jumping or out muscling a guy for the ball. He likely looks just as bad on the Colts as well, or any other team. Putting him on other teams doesn't make him stare down his first read less, read the D pre-snap any better, read the D post snap any better, realize the proper protection changes needed any better, get through his progressions any faster, make him throw behind receivers, or make him throw a deep out any better. Those are all items that have nothing to do with the talent around him. Those all come down to his decision making, arm strength, and ability to process the what he sees at NFL game speed.
our offense was laughable with only Greg Little, a rookie wr without playing a senior year of college football, being our passing threat? and hillis missing 10 games didnt do anything to slow colt down. having a 3rd string rb try set up the pass with the run. NONE of us have any room to judge colt off this past year. its as simple as that. colt only threw 13 tds and 12 ints. with as bad a passing attack we had, Colt didn't do bad, just not as good as the expectations were that year. we were expectin 12-4 and the playoffs last year. no wonder ppl are saying Colts terrible. its not fair to colt at all. he will be fine. He's the next Drew Brees. Give. It. Time. Colt's head is dead set on improvement, he wants to win so bad. he has something to fight for
All of that has nothing to do with the issues I see with Colt. I am not looking at any stats. Colt could have thrown nothing but incompletes and INTs as far as I am concerned. The question would always come down to "were they the right throws?" The problem I see is Colt isn't progressing at his pre-snap or post snap reads.
What have you seen form Colt's actual play to make you believe he is the next Drew Brees? Colt being dead set on improvent and wanting to win bad are all admirable qualities. But none of those necessarily mean he can or will take his game to the level needed to be a top flight NFL QB, let a lone a middle of the pack one. Those are qualities shared with countless other players who get to the NFL and don't pan out. Heck those were all qualities of Charlie Frye and Brady Quinn.
and think about colt leading Indianapolis, or Cincy, or a team that has SOMETHING. it would be different man, so different.
I can think about that all I want. When I do, I still see the same issues that have nothing to do with the talent around Colt. Talent at WR or RB has nothing to do with the issues I outlined that I see.
I'd love to have the plucky 3rd QB pan out. But to date I have seen little to believe that is going to happen.
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cincy didnt change anything with their personnel except ocho palmer and TO. cuz those guys were garbage.
I didn't say they did change more w/ their offensive personal than those 3 guys. Those were the starting QB and two starting WRs (bringing in Green is also a change). So they went from a Palmer, Ocho, and TO as their starting QB and WRs to Dalton, Green, and Simpson as their starting QB and WRs. That's a significant change on O though. Then there is the whole new offense (which is basically the same O CLE is implementing). Not sure I'd call all three of those guys garbage, and had Palmer not decided to force his way out of Cincy we wouldn't be talking about Dalton and Cincy in the same statements.
i don't think colt is. why? cause he had the shittiest offense in the league to work with! if colt would've come into the bengals offense, would he of looked as bad? hell if he was on the colts even, do you really think he would've been just as bad? put colt on ANY TEAM other than the browns and I think he does much much better. why? cuz the browns O suckED.
Let me be clear, I do not think Colt is garbage. I simply don't think he is going to develop into an elite NFL QB and his ceiling looks to be a solid 2nd string QB. I think Colt looks only slightly better you put him in Cincy, only because a guy like Green can make a bad pass look like a good one by simply out jumping or out muscling a guy for the ball. He likely looks just as bad on the Colts as well, or any other team. Putting him on other teams doesn't make him stare down his first read less, read the D pre-snap any better, read the D post snap any better, realize the proper protection changes needed any better, get through his progressions any faster, make him throw behind receivers, or make him throw a deep out any better. Those are all items that have nothing to do with the talent around him. Those all come down to his decision making, arm strength, and ability to process the what he sees at NFL game speed.
our offense was laughable with only Greg Little, a rookie wr without playing a senior year of college football, being our passing threat? and hillis missing 10 games didnt do anything to slow colt down. having a 3rd string rb try set up the pass with the run. NONE of us have any room to judge colt off this past year. its as simple as that. colt only threw 13 tds and 12 ints. with as bad a passing attack we had, Colt didn't do bad, just not as good as the expectations were that year. we were expectin 12-4 and the playoffs last year. no wonder ppl are saying Colts terrible. its not fair to colt at all. he will be fine. He's the next Drew Brees. Give. It. Time. Colt's head is dead set on improvement, he wants to win so bad. he has something to fight for
All of that has nothing to do with the issues I see with Colt. I am not looking at any stats. Colt could have thrown nothing but incompletes and INTs as far as I am concerned. The question would always come down to "were they the right throws?" The problem I see is Colt isn't progressing at his pre-snap or post snap reads.
What have you seen form Colt's actual play to make you believe he is the next Drew Brees? Colt being dead set on improvent and wanting to win bad are all admirable qualities. But none of those necessarily mean he can or will take his game to the level needed to be a top flight NFL QB, let a lone a middle of the pack one. Those are qualities shared with countless other players who get to the NFL and don't pan out. Heck those were all qualities of Charlie Frye and Brady Quinn.
and think about colt leading Indianapolis, or Cincy, or a team that has SOMETHING. it would be different man, so different.
I can think about that all I want. When I do, I still see the same issues that have nothing to do with the talent around Colt. Talent at WR or RB has nothing to do with the issues I outlined that I see.
I'd love to have the plucky 3rd QB pan out. But to date I have seen little to believe that is going to happen.
I didn't say they did change more w/ their offensive personal than those 3 guys. Those were the starting QB and two starting WRs (bringing in Green is also a change). So they went from a Palmer, Ocho, and TO as their starting QB and WRs to Dalton, Green, and Simpson as their starting QB and WRs. That's a significant change on O though. Then there is the whole new offense (which is basically the same O CLE is implementing). Not sure I'd call all three of those guys garbage, and had Palmer not decided to force his way out of Cincy we wouldn't be talking about Dalton and Cincy in the same statements.
Let me be clear, I do not think Colt is garbage. I simply don't think he is going to develop into an elite NFL QB and his ceiling looks to be a solid 2nd string QB. I think Colt looks only slightly better you put him in Cincy, only because a guy like Green can make a bad pass look like a good one by simply out jumping or out muscling a guy for the ball. He likely looks just as bad on the Colts as well, or any other team. Putting him on other teams doesn't make him stare down his first read less, read the D pre-snap any better, read the D post snap any better, realize the proper protection changes needed any better, get through his progressions any faster, make him throw behind receivers, or make him throw a deep out any better. Those are all items that have nothing to do with the talent around him. Those all come down to his decision making, arm strength, and ability to process the what he sees at NFL game speed.
All of that has nothing to do with the issues I see with Colt. I am not looking at any stats. Colt could have thrown nothing but incompletes and INTs as far as I am concerned. The question would always come down to "were they the right throws?" The problem I see is Colt isn't progressing at his pre-snap or post snap reads.
What have you seen form Colt's actual play to make you believe he is the next Drew Brees? Colt being dead set on improvent and wanting to win bad are all admirable qualities. But none of those necessarily mean he can or will take his game to the level needed to be a top flight NFL QB, let a lone a middle of the pack one. Those are qualities shared with countless other players who get to the NFL and don't pan out. Heck those were all qualities of Charlie Frye and Brady Quinn.
I can think about that all I want. When I do, I still see the same issues that have nothing to do with the talent around Colt. Talent at WR or RB has nothing to do with the issues I outlined that I see.
I'd love to have the plucky 3rd QB pan out. But to date I have seen little to believe that is going to happen.
okay, you're looking at colt individually and I get that. With a qb tho the rest of the team's state does matter and impact his performance.All the things I brought up about the teams problems in 2011, if anything, impact the quarterback the most. The position of QB is a tough cookie to cut. Its almost a domino effect if a RB is hurt, or a WR can't make a catch or get open, or if the line falters. The QB is involved with EVERY player and play, and the saying "the team is as good as it's worst player" couldnt be more true here. The holes on the team impact the QB's play. You look at Colt saying he cant make quick enough reads, or get through his progressions, or make the deep out throw. Im saying that Colt cant go through his prgressions cause the D doesnt expect/respect the run game, therefore blitzing, giving Colt less time to even itch his crotch. Or if he cant make a deep out throw because of pressure? or because since the run isnt expected the coverage is tightened on our best wr and Colt is forced to make margarita out of lemons instead of lemonade out of lemons. You see my point? Its a chain reaction of bad that happens if the team is not prepared/fully utilized with it's talent due to injuries.
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The Panthers improved from 2-14 to 6-10 with arguably one of the greatest rookie QB seasons ever. Luck or RG3 is not going to push the Browns to 10-6. It can't be said enough that right now the team needs to build a solid franchise and you do that by drafting often and well. There are needs at RB, WR, DL, LB and OL as well as QB. If this was a solid 8-8 team with playmakers on O and D I would love to see RG3 try to light up the NFL but the truth is this team stinks and they need to improve in a lot of areas..
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Brady Quinn does suck. We agree there. But Cam Newton didn't "blow up the system" because he's got it and some others don't. Newton was actually surrounded by talent on offense: DeAngelo Williams and Jon Stewart as RBs, Steve Smith as a true #1 WR, 2 starting caliber TEs in Jeremy Shockey and Greg Olsen, a 1st round LT (8th overall), and a 2nd round center. That is why he had success this past year. It is the same for any QB that has had any early success.
CAR also had almost every one of those pieces the year before and were near the bottom of the league in offense.
CAR also had almost every one of those pieces the year before and were near the bottom of the league in offense.
That is exactly my point! Greg Olsen was the only big addition on offense outside of Newton. They had talent on offense, but Clausen sucked big time which prevented them form being any good. Granted, if their defense doesn't improve, they still won't win more then 6 games next year..
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man can you ever look back and read your own posts?
let's see cam newton and the panthers when they play the nfc east. WHO? WHAT?
OR HOW ABOUT the FLIPPIN AFC NORTH????
makin a lot of money that weekend......johnnie.
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