Mike Wallace?
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Gip, I won't argue with you on Couch but as a #1 pick you would like to see a much better career path. The thing I remember about Couch is he would show why he was a #1 pick one game which reeled you in then follow it up with some stinkers consecutively.
As far as Young goes, his first two years the Titans were 16th and 22nd in scoring I would hardly call that on fire. If you have watched Newton, you can see how impressive that kid is. I honestly hate admitting that because I was one of his biggest critics coming into the league. Kid is special.
Gip, I won't argue with you on Couch but as a #1 pick you would like to see a much better career path. The thing I remember about Couch is he would show why he was a #1 pick one game which reeled you in then follow it up with some stinkers consecutively.
As far as Young goes, his first two years the Titans were 16th and 22nd in scoring I would hardly call that on fire. If you have watched Newton, you can see how impressive that kid is. I honestly hate admitting that because I was one of his biggest critics coming into the league. Kid is special.
I'm inpressed by winning, not by big numbers.
I think that Newton will turn out better than VY eventually....but there are still no guarantees.
On Couch, I think his "career path" was initially derailed by such a god awful team around him....by some idiocy by the HCs of the Browns, and eventually by injury.
People talk about how the Browns should have taken McNabb. I don't think McNabb could have done any better here at all than Couch did. If the drafting had been the other way around, it may have been TC that took the Eagles to multiple championship games.
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You're stupid then. Randy Moss only garnered a 4th rd pick, you want to give a 1st for Wallace, you are crazy. Absolute highest I would even consider is a 3rd pick and even then I would be hesitant.
Are you a real person? or a ridiculous alter ego? Randy Moss garnered a 4th round pick on the back end of his career when the Patriots MASTERS of taking every last ounce out of their players let him walk. He then proceeded to do absolutely NOTHING. I'd give up Wallace for 4th overall in a heart beat BUT I'd be sad to see Wallace go because he's quickly becoming an elite option.
Homotron said:
Are you a real person? or a ridiculous alter ego? Randy Moss garnered a 4th round pick on the back end of his career when the Patriots MASTERS of taking every last ounce out of their players let him walk. He then proceeded to do absolutely NOTHING. I'd give up Wallace for 4th overall in a heart beat BUT I'd be sad to see Wallace go because he's quickly becoming an elite option.
Actually, when the Patriots got Moss from the Raiders, all they gave up was a 4th, and that was before his record setting 2007. I think character issues played a role in the low valuation at the time, and Wallace would likely garner more than that. I'd give up the 22 or the 2nd rounder, considering he is still young.
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you got some things mixxed up man....
first, for the raiders to get moss? the 7th overall and napoleon harris, in march of '05. the pats gave up a 4th rounder to acquire moss in '07 (not before his record setting '07 season). moss produced little in oakland due to injuries and a bad attitude.....so how does a player go from very high net worth to garbage over the course of 2 years?
small note. the 22nd is not up for trade of a RFA. it has to be our pick...the 4th.
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Not even in "Steeler Fantasy Land" is Mike Wallace worth a fourth overall draft pick...
Keep dreaming... and kill this thread... oops, I just kicked a dead horse... dammit!
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Not even in "Steeler Fantasy Land" is Mike Wallace worth a fourth overall draft pick...
Keep dreaming... and kill this thread... oops, I just kicked a dead horse... dammit!
Not even in "Steeler Fantasy Land" is Mike Wallace worth a fourth overall draft pick...
Keep dreaming... and kill this thread... oops, I just kicked a dead horse... dammit!
Where is anyone in "Steeler Nation" suggesting he is numb nuts? I'd give him up in a heart beat for the 4th overall pick. The Steelers could then trade down a bit and draft Decastro and another WR with the trade down picks and or trade back up. It's not going to happen but I also didn't start this thread.
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Not even in "Steeler Fantasy Land" is Mike Wallace worth a fourth overall draft pick...
Keep dreaming... and kill this thread... oops, I just kicked a dead horse... dammit!
Where is anyone in "Steeler Nation" suggesting he is numb nuts? I'd give him up in a heart beat for the 4th overall pick. The Steelers could then trade down a bit and draft Decastro and another WR with the trade down picks and or trade back up. It's not going to happen but I also didn't start this thread.
Homotron said:
Where is anyone in "Steeler Nation" suggesting he is numb nuts? I'd give him up in a heart beat for the 4th overall pick. The Steelers could then trade down a bit and draft Decastro and another WR with the trade down picks and or trade back up. It's not going to happen but I also didn't start this thread.
Awww... are you jealous about the picks the Browns have?
That's refreshing! -
Homotron said:
Where is anyone in "Steeler Nation" suggesting he is numb nuts? I'd give him up in a heart beat for the 4th overall pick. The Steelers could then trade down a bit and draft Decastro and another WR with the trade down picks and or trade back up. It's not going to happen but I also didn't start this thread.
Awww... are you jealous about the picks the Browns have?
That's refreshing! Awww... are you jealous about the picks the Browns have?
That's refreshing! Jealous? You realize you had to lose a lot of games to have that draft pick right? I'd be pretty damn pissed if we ever draft that high anytime soon. What I did say is I'd gladly give up Mike Wallace for 4th overall if that were on the table. I love Mike Wallace but a good team can do a lot with the 4th overall draft selection. A trade down for example that would garner a lower first and possibly a 2nd or more. I'm not sure on the actual draft pick calculations.
Jealous? absolutely not.
AKA SNATCH98 or Rorbotron. The boards glorious admins decided to get cute and change my name to "homotron" Classy group of people. (Lost a bet with Columbus king and got banned for a month) -
Awww... are you jealous about the picks the Browns have?
That's refreshing! Jealous? You realize you had to lose a lot of games to have that draft pick right? I'd be pretty damn pissed if we ever draft that high anytime soon. What I did say is I'd gladly give up Mike Wallace for 4th overall if that were on the table. I love Mike Wallace but a good team can do a lot with the 4th overall draft selection. A trade down for example that would garner a lower first and possibly a 2nd or more. I'm not sure on the actual draft pick calculations.
Jealous? absolutely not.
Homotron said:
Jealous? You realize you had to lose a lot of games to have that draft pick right? I'd be pretty damn pissed if we ever draft that high anytime soon. What I did say is I'd gladly give up Mike Wallace for 4th overall if that were on the table. I love Mike Wallace but a good team can do a lot with the 4th overall draft selection. A trade down for example that would garner a lower first and possibly a 2nd or more. I'm not sure on the actual draft pick calculations.
Jealous? absolutely not.
...I won't be too hard on you, but you do realize that the Steelers days are numbered. I give it two more years for the fall to be complete. You'll soon be picking inside the top ten and the Browns will be picking low 30s...
...and it's gonna be satisfying... 
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I would much rather have Wallace then use the 4 on Blackmon. Thats just me though. Why gamble on Blackmon being a good pro when we can just trade for Wallace who we know is a stud. I would much rather somehow work a deal out with the Steelers where they would get the 22 instead or even better a second rounder, but the reality is I don't think they would trade him in the division unless they were getting something crazy ... like the 4.
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Looks like Rapelisberger restructured his contract to saved them another 8 million so I doubt Wallace is going anywhere.
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why? that gets them back to even with the cap. just to tender wallace is 2.7mil, so thats another cut or restructure. to franchise would be 9+mil.
you need 4 mil for rookies...thats hines wards contract.
then they have to fill out the roster....figure another few million.
at best, they still have to trim 10 mil, and in this scenario, would lose wallace because they dont have enough to match and offer. so they'd need 18-19 million to franchise him....there's gonna be some serious cuts if they wanna ensure wallace stays in pitt....which is fine by me. cut off their nose to spite their face, just to keep big gay happy.
antonio is better anyway....
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Awww... are you jealous about the picks the Browns have?
That's refreshing! Jealous? You realize you had to lose a lot of games to have that draft pick right? I'd be pretty damn pissed if we ever draft that high anytime soon. What I did say is I'd gladly give up Mike Wallace for 4th overall if that were on the table. I love Mike Wallace but a good team can do a lot with the 4th overall draft selection. A trade down for example that would garner a lower first and possibly a 2nd or more. I'm not sure on the actual draft pick calculations.
Jealous? absolutely not.
Homotron said:
Jealous? You realize you had to lose a lot of games to have that draft pick right? I'd be pretty damn pissed if we ever draft that high anytime soon. What I did say is I'd gladly give up Mike Wallace for 4th overall if that were on the table. I love Mike Wallace but a good team can do a lot with the 4th overall draft selection. A trade down for example that would garner a lower first and possibly a 2nd or more. I'm not sure on the actual draft pick calculations.
Jealous? absolutely not.
You watch yer tongue! It took a lot of hard work to EARN that 4th pick. And yeah... I'd trade the 4th pick in a heartbeat to get a proven #1 receiver. The state the Browns are in now, we need some solid players. The draft is a crap shoot.
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No way in hell would I trade the #4 pick to the Steelers for a freakin receiver when we don't have a Quarterback.
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No way in hell would I trade the #4 pick to the Steelers for a freakin receiver when we don't have a Quarterback.
No way in hell would I trade the #4 pick to the Steelers for a freakin receiver when we don't have a Quarterback.
would you take blackmon with that pick?
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obviously not
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The Browns are not about to trade the #4 pick in the draft for Mike Wallace. In recent years Randy Moss, Wes Welker, Brandon Marshall, Chad Ochocinco and Santonio Holmes were all traded -- none involved a #1 draft pick. The only WR that was shipped out with a #1 pick as part of the exchange was Roy Williams -- how'd that work out.
For all the talk, the Steelers are unlikely to lose Wallace, a restricted free agent. For one, few teams will be willing to give up a #1 pick. Most quality GMs and NFL Personnel men value #1 draft picks more than casual fans and former lawyers who have innuendo-laced websites. The Steelers would probably be better off getting a #1 pick for Wallace, given their needs at the NT and OL position and the fact they have the enviable yet not enviable task of trying to sign Antonio Brown and Emmanuel Sanders in addition to Wallace in the near future.
Personally, I would love it for the Browns to offer a contract to Wallace so that Pittsburgh would recieve the #4 pick in the draft....
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The Browns are not about to trade the #4 pick in the draft for Mike Wallace. In recent years Randy Moss, Wes Welker, Brandon Marshall, Chad Ochocinco and Santonio Holmes were all traded -- none involved a #1 draft pick. The only WR that was shipped out with a #1 pick as part of the exchange was Roy Williams -- how'd that work out.
For all the talk, the Steelers are unlikely to lose Wallace, a restricted free agent. For one, few teams will be willing to give up a #1 pick. Most quality GMs and NFL Personnel men value #1 draft picks more than casual fans and former lawyers who have innuendo-laced websites. The Steelers would probably be better off getting a #1 pick for Wallace, given their needs at the NT and OL position and the fact they have the enviable yet not enviable task of trying to sign Antonio Brown and Emmanuel Sanders in addition to Wallace in the near future.
Personally, I would love it for the Browns to offer a contract to Wallace so that Pittsburgh would recieve the #4 pick in the draft....
In recent years Randy Moss, Wes Welker, Brandon Marshall, Chad Ochocinco and Santonio Holmes were all traded -- none involved a #1 draft pick.
well, not only was moss traded to oakland for a 1st rounder (7th overall), but it also included a player....napoleon harris. it doesn't invalidate your point, but its not without precedent.
id much rather get brown for free rather than trade picks for wallace. im hoping colbert bends over backwards and keeps prorating those bonuses till next year. if you keep wallace, you got no shot at retaining brown.
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Homotron said:
Jealous? You realize you had to lose a lot of games to have that draft pick right? I'd be pretty damn pissed if we ever draft that high anytime soon. What I did say is I'd gladly give up Mike Wallace for 4th overall if that were on the table. I love Mike Wallace but a good team can do a lot with the 4th overall draft selection. A trade down for example that would garner a lower first and possibly a 2nd or more. I'm not sure on the actual draft pick calculations.
Jealous? absolutely not.
...I won't be too hard on you, but you do realize that the Steelers days are numbered. I give it two more years for the fall to be complete. You'll soon be picking inside the top ten and the Browns will be picking low 30s...
...and it's gonna be satisfying... ...I won't be too hard on you, but you do realize that the Steelers days are numbered. I give it two more years for the fall to be complete. You'll soon be picking inside the top ten and the Browns will be picking low 30s...
...and it's gonna be satisfying... This is the same BS you guys have been saying for years. Tony Grossi spewed that garbage in 2010 as he forecast the Steelers in decline and all they did was go to the Super Bowl and have back to back 12-4 seasons. Despite the Steelers aging core, they still have a better young base of talent than Cleveland - evidenced by the fact their biggest issue is salary cap space to sign all of their talent. The Browns have no such issues because they don't have enough talent to push the cap limits. The Steelers still have the franchise QB in Roethlisberger, and while you can spew out as many insults as you want about rape, calling him over rated or whatever makes you feel better -- the nature of his success has him on a path to Canton. The Browns on the other hand, not only passed on Ben to take KWII, they passed on Aaron Rogers and their series of draft day decisions led them to missing out on drafting Sanchez, Flacco, Freeman and Dalton - who have combined for 3/4 Super Bowls, 16 playoff apperances, 18 winning seasons and 2 15-1 seasons.
Below are comparisons of 1st round picks since 2000. Only in the instance of Joe Thomas vs. Lawrence Timmons did the Browns acquire a superior player -- and considering the entire draft, the giving up a #1 pick for Quinn while the Steelers selected another multiple time Pro Bowl LB in Woodley, the Steelers still had a better draft.
The Steelers stable front office, with Kevin Colbert leading the way, consistently finds quality talent. Mike Wallace was a 3rd rounder and has been better than any Browns draft pick since 1999 save for Joe Thomas, and that is just for starters.
So, go ahead and believe the Steelers are going to decline. Whatever makes you feel better, personally, I'll not lose any sleep at night over it.
First round comparisons:
2000 - Courtney Brown vs. Plaxico Burress (notables - Marvel Smith, Clark Haggans)
2001 - Gerard Warren vs. Casey Hampton (notables - Kendrell Bell)
2002 - William Green vs. Kendall Simmons (notables - Larry Foote, Antwaan Randle El, Brett Keisel, Chris Hope)
2003 - Jeff Faine vs. Troy Polamalu (notables - Ike Taylor)
2004 - Kellen Winslow II vs. Ben Roethlisberger (notables - Max Starks)
2005 - Braylon Edwards vs. Heath Miller (notables - Bryant McFadden)
2006 - Kamerion Wimbley vs. Santonio Holmes
2007 - Joe Thomas/Brady Quinn vs. Lawrence Timmons (notables - Lamar Woodley)
2008 - None (Traded for Brady Quinn) vs. Rashard Mendenhall
2009 - Alex Mack vs. Ziggy Hood (notables - Mike Wallace)
2010 - Joe Haden vs. Maurkice Pouncey (notables - Antonio Brown, Emmanuel Sanders)
2011 - Phil Taylor vs. Cameron Heyward (notables - Marcus Gilbert)
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...I won't be too hard on you, but you do realize that the Steelers days are numbered. I give it two more years for the fall to be complete. You'll soon be picking inside the top ten and the Browns will be picking low 30s...
...and it's gonna be satisfying... This is the same BS you guys have been saying for years. Tony Grossi spewed that garbage in 2010 as he forecast the Steelers in decline and all they did was go to the Super Bowl and have back to back 12-4 seasons. Despite the Steelers aging core, they still have a better young base of talent than Cleveland - evidenced by the fact their biggest issue is salary cap space to sign all of their talent. The Browns have no such issues because they don't have enough talent to push the cap limits. The Steelers still have the franchise QB in Roethlisberger, and while you can spew out as many insults as you want about rape, calling him over rated or whatever makes you feel better -- the nature of his success has him on a path to Canton. The Browns on the other hand, not only passed on Ben to take KWII, they passed on Aaron Rogers and their series of draft day decisions led them to missing out on drafting Sanchez, Flacco, Freeman and Dalton - who have combined for 3/4 Super Bowls, 16 playoff apperances, 18 winning seasons and 2 15-1 seasons.
Below are comparisons of 1st round picks since 2000. Only in the instance of Joe Thomas vs. Lawrence Timmons did the Browns acquire a superior player -- and considering the entire draft, the giving up a #1 pick for Quinn while the Steelers selected another multiple time Pro Bowl LB in Woodley, the Steelers still had a better draft.
The Steelers stable front office, with Kevin Colbert leading the way, consistently finds quality talent. Mike Wallace was a 3rd rounder and has been better than any Browns draft pick since 1999 save for Joe Thomas, and that is just for starters.
So, go ahead and believe the Steelers are going to decline. Whatever makes you feel better, personally, I'll not lose any sleep at night over it.
First round comparisons:
2000 - Courtney Brown vs. Plaxico Burress (notables - Marvel Smith, Clark Haggans)
2001 - Gerard Warren vs. Casey Hampton (notables - Kendrell Bell)
2002 - William Green vs. Kendall Simmons (notables - Larry Foote, Antwaan Randle El, Brett Keisel, Chris Hope)
2003 - Jeff Faine vs. Troy Polamalu (notables - Ike Taylor)
2004 - Kellen Winslow II vs. Ben Roethlisberger (notables - Max Starks)
2005 - Braylon Edwards vs. Heath Miller (notables - Bryant McFadden)
2006 - Kamerion Wimbley vs. Santonio Holmes
2007 - Joe Thomas/Brady Quinn vs. Lawrence Timmons (notables - Lamar Woodley)
2008 - None (Traded for Brady Quinn) vs. Rashard Mendenhall
2009 - Alex Mack vs. Ziggy Hood (notables - Mike Wallace)
2010 - Joe Haden vs. Maurkice Pouncey (notables - Antonio Brown, Emmanuel Sanders)
2011 - Phil Taylor vs. Cameron Heyward (notables - Marcus Gilbert)
First round comparisons:
2000 - Courtney Brown vs. Plaxico Burress (notables - Marvel Smith, Clark Haggans)
2001 - Gerard Warren vs. Casey Hampton (notables - Kendrell Bell)
2002 - William Green vs. Kendall Simmons (notables - Larry Foote, Antwaan Randle El, Brett Keisel, Chris Hope)
2003 - Jeff Faine vs. Troy Polamalu (notables - Ike Taylor)
2004 - Kellen Winslow II vs. Ben Roethlisberger (notables - Max Starks)
2005 - Braylon Edwards vs. Heath Miller (notables - Bryant McFadden)
2006 - Kamerion Wimbley vs. Santonio Holmes
2007 - Joe Thomas/Brady Quinn vs. Lawrence Timmons (notables - Lamar Woodley)
2008 - None (Traded for Brady Quinn) vs. Rashard Mendenhall
2009 - Alex Mack vs. Ziggy Hood (notables - Mike Wallace)
2010 - Joe Haden vs. Maurkice Pouncey (notables - Antonio Brown, Emmanuel Sanders)
2011 - Phil Taylor vs. Cameron Heyward (notables - Marcus Gilbert)
The ones in red I have no arguement against. But the ones in blue prove we are closing the talent gap.
Joe Thomas is the best LT in football.
Mack is better than overrated Pouncey.
Haden is better than Ike Taylor already.
It's too early to tell if Phil Taylor is better than Heyward. But Taylor is a SOLID pick so far.
Jabaal Sheard isn't Lamar Woodley, but his a beast and is getting better.
And well, the terrorist Mendenhall is garbage. I'll take Hillis all day over Mendenhall.
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