The Rg3 Bidding War Has Begun
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Looking at our current roster we have 12 or 13 legit starters on this team, giving up 3 or 4 potential starters for one guy just seems crazy. The kid isnt even the best QB in the draft and we are talking about paying more than when the NYG traded up to get the BEST QB in the draft. Plain and simple good teams dont make moves like this, we are talking about getting into a bidding war with the Redskins. Let that sink in and tell me that this is the right move... Yea well be competing against the same team that gave Haynesworth 100 mil.
All drafts aren't created equal. RGIII would be the number 1 pick in any draft in the last 13 years except this one.
That's why you make the deal.
-jj
All drafts aren't created equal. RGIII would be the number 1 pick in any draft in the last 13 years except this one.
That's why you make the deal.
-jj
JJ I asked you this by PM, so I'll post it here instead. I know you're extremely high on RGIII. But every player has a max limit- so what's your opinion on just how much the Browns should give up to land him?
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Looking at our current roster we have 12 or 13 legit starters on this team, giving up 3 or 4 potential starters for one guy just seems crazy. The kid isnt even the best QB in the draft and we are talking about paying more than when the NYG traded up to get the BEST QB in the draft. Plain and simple good teams dont make moves like this, we are talking about getting into a bidding war with the Redskins. Let that sink in and tell me that this is the right move... Yea well be competing against the same team that gave Haynesworth 100 mil.
All drafts aren't created equal. RGIII would be the number 1 pick in any draft in the last 13 years except this one.
That's why you make the deal.
-jj
All drafts aren't created equal. RGIII would be the number 1 pick in any draft in the last 13 years except this one.
That's why you make the deal.
-jj
You do realize in 2004 Ben Rothlisberger, Eli Manning, Phillip Rivers, and Matt Shaub were all drafted right. Im sorry but RG3 is a 2nd rounder on that list.
RG3 has some good traits but if it wasnt for Glam Newton Rg3 probably is a mid to late 1st round draft pick. People fall in love with what was hot the prior year and since a scrambling QB put up good numbers last year, this kid can do the same. P.S. the Panthers won 6 games last season.
Before saying he isnt just a scrambling QB remember Colt McCoy put up similar #s in college and hes just a product of the Big 12 and the spread, right? Rg3 can throw the deep ball, thats nice but with out any draft picks whos going to catch it? Is Little known to beat anyone deep? Massaquoi? Norwood?
RG3 is a good kid and I hate to put him down but lets keep things into perspective
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All drafts aren't created equal. RGIII would be the number 1 pick in any draft in the last 13 years except this one.
That's why you make the deal.
-jj
You do realize in 2004 Ben Rothlisberger, Eli Manning, Phillip Rivers, and Matt Shaub were all drafted right. Im sorry but RG3 is a 2nd rounder on that list.
RG3 has some good traits but if it wasnt for Glam Newton Rg3 probably is a mid to late 1st round draft pick. People fall in love with what was hot the prior year and since a scrambling QB put up good numbers last year, this kid can do the same. P.S. the Panthers won 6 games last season.
Before saying he isnt just a scrambling QB remember Colt McCoy put up similar #s in college and hes just a product of the Big 12 and the spread, right? Rg3 can throw the deep ball, thats nice but with out any draft picks whos going to catch it? Is Little known to beat anyone deep? Massaquoi? Norwood?
RG3 is a good kid and I hate to put him down but lets keep things into perspective
You do realize in 2004 Ben Rothlisberger, Eli Manning, Phillip Rivers, and Matt Shaub were all drafted right. Im sorry but RG3 is a 2nd rounder on that list.
RG3 has some good traits but if it wasnt for Glam Newton Rg3 probably is a mid to late 1st round draft pick. People fall in love with what was hot the prior year and since a scrambling QB put up good numbers last year, this kid can do the same. P.S. the Panthers won 6 games last season.
Before saying he isnt just a scrambling QB remember Colt McCoy put up similar #s in college and hes just a product of the Big 12 and the spread, right? Rg3 can throw the deep ball, thats nice but with out any draft picks whos going to catch it? Is Little known to beat anyone deep? Massaquoi? Norwood?
RG3 is a good kid and I hate to put him down but lets keep things into perspective
I'm sorry... Stop reading college stats. They will lie to you.
Watch the game film. He whole games. There isn't a single one of those guys that had the assembled game tape that RGIII has.
Roethlisberger and Manning were average prospects - and Rivers was a notch below that.
Schaub's not even in the conversation.
It's not even a close call.
-jj
It wouldn't have been close.
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um...so because the panthers added a QB that took them from 1-15 to 6-10, its not a good idea?
or that because colt is from the same system and conference that there will no improvement?
i dont recall ever seeing colt throw a football like griffen can.....even if they are starting from the same place, professionally, griffen has so many more physical tools at his disposal. its called potential, something colt lacks in comparison.
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Heck, look at the scouting grades and RG3 is grading out better than the QBs in that list.
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Who is grading Griffin that high? There is no way he is grading out better then Eli, Rivers, or Ben
Going 6-10 and trading all of our picks away would be a fail. If we had the #2 pick then fine but if you are going to lose 3-4 potential starters you are better off drafting a QB next year.
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Who is grading Griffin that high? There is no way he is grading out better then Eli, Rivers, or Ben
Going 6-10 and trading all of our picks away would be a fail. If we had the #2 pick then fine but if you are going to lose 3-4 potential starters you are better off drafting a QB next year.
Who is grading Griffin that high? There is no way he is grading out better then Eli, Rivers, or Ben
Going 6-10 and trading all of our picks away would be a fail. If we had the #2 pick then fine but if you are going to lose 3-4 potential starters you are better off drafting a QB next year.
Everyone. Scouts, coaches, agents, you name it. Most NFL teams use an 8 point scale to rate prospects. Manning and Roethlisberger were 6.6's and 6.7's across the board. Anything above 6.5 is a guy you figure is going to become a starter in the NFL. Anything above a 7.0, you're projecting a potential All-Pro.
Both Manning and Roethlisberger had huge question marks coming out of college. Manning didn't have a great arm, Ben played in the MAC - AND didn't have much of an arm. Rivers was labeled as immature and may have trouble dealing with pressure (sounds right to me).
With a guy like Griffin, you're looking at 7.5's and 7.6's from all corners of the NFL. That's a huge difference. Basically what that means is people who are paid to find faults with players can't find a single thing that isn't circumstantial: i.e. He hasn't spent much time under center, or he's never worked in a rhythm passing offense.
Physically and mentally, the guy has no holes.
This isn't Ryan Leaf with 5 red flags and big arm. This isn't Jamarcus Russell coming out of LSU with a monster arm and little else. This is a completely different player.
It really makes little difference what the Browns do. RGIII is going to change whatever franchise he goes to. They can do the deal or wish they did.
But if I'm Tom Heckert, and I have that guy two picks away, while sitting on an extra 1st round pick, and I let some other team leapfrog me to draft him... I turn in my resignation the next morning, no questions.
-jj
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I agree with Jason...the guy seems to have it all. Brains, arm strength, he's a ridiculously great athlete. The only real question is that the played in a conference that doesn't play a lot of defense and that's is a concern but the kid just seems like a winner to me and will do whatever it takes to be a success. I think Colt has that same drive, he unfortunately doesn't have the skills to go with the fact that he's a good kid with a lot of heart and works hard.
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All drafts aren't created equal. RGIII would be the number 1 pick in any draft in the last 13 years except this one.
That's why you make the deal.
-jj
JJ I asked you this by PM, so I'll post it here instead. I know you're extremely high on RGIII. But every player has a max limit- so what's your opinion on just how much the Browns should give up to land him?
JJ I asked you this by PM, so I'll post it here instead. I know you're extremely high on RGIII. But every player has a max limit- so what's your opinion on just how much the Browns should give up to land him?
I really don't have a limit per se. I suppose it could get into the land of the ridiculous. But 4/22/37 + next years 3 doesn't scare me. I'd start to get nervous if you're looking at 3 #1s. But I don't think it'll get that far.
I look at it this way, regardless of who else they draft, if the Browns land a "franchise quarterback" in 2012, it's be best draft they've had in 20 years. So, what else really matters at that point?
-jj
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JJ I asked you this by PM, so I'll post it here instead. I know you're extremely high on RGIII. But every player has a max limit- so what's your opinion on just how much the Browns should give up to land him?
I really don't have a limit per se. I suppose it could get into the land of the ridiculous. But 4/22/37 + next years 3 doesn't scare me. I'd start to get nervous if you're looking at 3 #1s. But I don't think it'll get that far.
I look at it this way, regardless of who else they draft, if the Browns land a "franchise quarterback" in 2012, it's be best draft they've had in 20 years. So, what else really matters at that point?
-jj
I really don't have a limit per se. I suppose it could get into the land of the ridiculous. But 4/22/37 + next years 3 doesn't scare me. I'd start to get nervous if you're looking at 3 #1s. But I don't think it'll get that far.
I look at it this way, regardless of who else they draft, if the Browns land a "franchise quarterback" in 2012, it's be best draft they've had in 20 years. So, what else really matters at that point?
-jj
Thanks- but if what I heard on ESPN is true tonight,- Redskins 2 first rounders + two other picks, it may well get into the land of the ridiculous real fast.
What "else" could matter is, assuming they can re-sign Hillis is who's he going to throw the ball to? The "experts" say Little is a nice #2 wr. So I'd also appreciate your take on the state of the Browns current WR (corpse). Pun intended- I think you can figure out my take on them.
MHO if we give up the ranch to get RGIII, he'd better be more than just "pretty good" like Flacco is, or Kosar was. I want upper echelon HOF- the next Farve, Montana, Elway, Marino, or (Peyton) Manning- anything less isn't worth it. OTOH, if we get that level of player- it really doesn't matter what we're giving up to get him.
PS- I don't text.
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I'd give both number 1's this year, a 4th this year, and a 3rd next year.
That leaves us with one round without a pick, next years #3..
I just wouldn't do it this soon. It would have to be draft day...or day before.
During this silly workout season, if Griffin OR Luck got hurt in a serious way, we'd be holding a very expensive #2 pick that wouldn't be worth what we had in it.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. -
I don't have time to scroll back up and see if someone has already posted this from National Football Authority Senior writer Bear Heiser regarding RG3 according to a "League source:"
"The Cleveland Browns have been the favorite to land the pick, given they arguably have the most ammunition. Per the league source, Cleveland has offered the No. 4 overall pick, two second round picks and a fifth round pick, but not the No. 22 overall pick. However, if the No. 22 overall pick is a must for the Rams, while reluctant, the Browns would likely be willing to include it.
Another team with an offer on the table is the Washington Redskins. According to the source, Mike Shanahan's team has offered the No. 6 and No. 39 overall picks, along with a third round pick and a second round pick in the 2013 draft."
Woof Woof, Kathy http://cognitivemanifesto.com/ http://www.skadden.com/index.cfm?contentID=49&officeID=9 Bendix ESP -
I don't have time to scroll back up and see if someone has already posted this from National Football Authority Senior writer Bear Heiser regarding RG3 according to a "League source:"
"The Cleveland Browns have been the favorite to land the pick, given they arguably have the most ammunition. Per the league source, Cleveland has offered the No. 4 overall pick, two second round picks and a fifth round pick, but not the No. 22 overall pick. However, if the No. 22 overall pick is a must for the Rams, while reluctant, the Browns would likely be willing to include it.
Another team with an offer on the table is the Washington Redskins. According to the source, Mike Shanahan's team has offered the No. 6 and No. 39 overall picks, along with a third round pick and a second round pick in the 2013 draft."
I don't have time to scroll back up and see if someone has already posted this from National Football Authority Senior writer Bear Heiser regarding RG3 according to a "League source:"
"The Cleveland Browns have been the favorite to land the pick, given they arguably have the most ammunition. Per the league source, Cleveland has offered the No. 4 overall pick, two second round picks and a fifth round pick, but not the No. 22 overall pick. However, if the No. 22 overall pick is a must for the Rams, while reluctant, the Browns would likely be willing to include it.
Another team with an offer on the table is the Washington Redskins. According to the source, Mike Shanahan's team has offered the No. 6 and No. 39 overall picks, along with a third round pick and a second round pick in the 2013 draft."
Someone tell me it aint so! To think that we have so many needs and that Holmgren and Heckert would make such a foolish move like this.
Head or Gut? -
its a good starting point. there's a bit of added risk in the redskins trade tho....presumably, the rams could miss out on the guy they're targeting, if it is in fact, kahlil or blackmon. a fifth this year, or a third next.....i dunno. the rams could really screw this up.
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Our 4 and 22 this year makes us a far more favorable option. In the end if it comes down to 4,22,37 and next years one I don't think asking for some Rams lower round picks in return is out of the question.
"All Truth Passes Through Three stages. First, It Is Ridiculed, Second It Is Violently Opposed, And Third, It Is Accepted As Self-Evident" ~Arthur Schopenhauer -
I don't have time to scroll back up and see if someone has already posted this from National Football Authority Senior writer Bear Heiser regarding RG3 according to a "League source:"
"The Cleveland Browns have been the favorite to land the pick, given they arguably have the most ammunition. Per the league source, Cleveland has offered the No. 4 overall pick, two second round picks and a fifth round pick, but not the No. 22 overall pick. However, if the No. 22 overall pick is a must for the Rams, while reluctant, the Browns would likely be willing to include it.
Another team with an offer on the table is the Washington Redskins. According to the source, Mike Shanahan's team has offered the No. 6 and No. 39 overall picks, along with a third round pick and a second round pick in the 2013 draft."
Someone tell me it aint so! To think that we have so many needs and that Holmgren and Heckert would make such a foolish move like this.
Someone tell me it aint so! To think that we have so many needs and that Holmgren and Heckert would make such a foolish move like this.
one of those biggest needs happen to be at QB. we're not winning anything till we solidify that position.
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Our 4 and 22 this year makes us a far more favorable option. In the end if it comes down to 4,22,37 and next years one I don't think asking for some Rams lower round picks in return is out of the question.
Our 4 and 22 this year makes us a far more favorable option. In the end if it comes down to 4,22,37 and next years one I don't think asking for some Rams lower round picks in return is out of the question.
3 First rounders AND a second!?! You are nuts..
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I don't have time to scroll back up and see if someone has already posted this from National Football Authority Senior writer Bear Heiser regarding RG3 according to a "League source:"
"The Cleveland Browns have been the favorite to land the pick, given they arguably have the most ammunition. Per the league source, Cleveland has offered the No. 4 overall pick, two second round picks and a fifth round pick, but not the No. 22 overall pick. However, if the No. 22 overall pick is a must for the Rams, while reluctant, the Browns would likely be willing to include it.
Another team with an offer on the table is the Washington Redskins. According to the source, Mike Shanahan's team has offered the No. 6 and No. 39 overall picks, along with a third round pick and a second round pick in the 2013 draft."
Someone tell me it aint so! To think that we have so many needs and that Holmgren and Heckert would make such a foolish move like this.
Someone tell me it aint so! To think that we have so many needs and that Holmgren and Heckert would make such a foolish move like this.
1 first, 2 seconds and a fifth doesnt seem that bad really. IF (and yes its a big if) RGIII is the franchise QB, you are giving up pretty much 3 picks so we dont have to worry about a QB for the next 10 years (5th rounders are usually crap shoots, not a big a deal).. I do it in a heartbeat.. We'd still have 2 firsts, a 3rd, two 4ths, and then the 6th and 7th rounders this year, thats plenty. Plus, I think FAs would be much more likely to come to Cleveland with RGIII there..
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Our 4 and 22 this year makes us a far more favorable option. In the end if it comes down to 4,22,37 and next years one I don't think asking for some Rams lower round picks in return is out of the question.
3 First rounders AND a second!?! You are nuts..
3 First rounders AND a second!?! You are nuts..
Technically it's 2 first round picks since we are swapping 4 for 2.
I think you put too much value on draft picks and not enough value on quarterback.
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