Another Rg3 Blow A Knee Thread
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im the antagonist....ill glady take the role of devils advocate even if i dont agree with the point im arguing. why? cause im finding out that many folks around here have opinions based on either circumstantial evidence (thats often misinterpreted) or nothign at all.
like this last post....so frank minnifield was a great CB for the browns. does that mean his son will also be great? in your eyes, apparently. considered rationally, it means nothing who his father was. so what you saying is to make a decision based on name alone, to get this kid because his father was a good player. while i do not disagree with the pick, the reasoning is just terrible. real GM's do not make decisions like this....ya know why? its gets them fired.
mr savage was in absolute love with jamarcus russel....he just didn't have the firepower to trade up. phil got lucky and dodged a bullet, however, his propensity to overvalue talent was legendary, and led to his termination after several years of fucking up the draft. he traded up for quinn as well....perhaps as a PR move, but nevertheless, so very short sighted.
so again...how is chase a must-have from any standpoint? he certainly isnt because his father played for us. yes, clays boy seems to be good....but dont be so naive to assume that players born of other players will exhibit the same success. so beyond the fact his daddy was a brown, is there anything that makes him special over any of the other prospects in the 2nd round?
im the antagonist....ill glady take the role of devils advocate even if i dont agree with the point im arguing. why? cause im finding out that many folks around here have opinions based on either circumstantial evidence (thats often misinterpreted) or nothign at all.
like this last post....so frank minnifield was a great CB for the browns. does that mean his son will also be great? in your eyes, apparently. considered rationally, it means nothing who his father was. so what you saying is to make a decision based on name alone, to get this kid because his father was a good player. while i do not disagree with the pick, the reasoning is just terrible. real GM's do not make decisions like this....ya know why? its gets them fired.
mr savage was in absolute love with jamarcus russel....he just didn't have the firepower to trade up. phil got lucky and dodged a bullet, however, his propensity to overvalue talent was legendary, and led to his termination after several years of fucking up the draft. he traded up for quinn as well....perhaps as a PR move, but nevertheless, so very short sighted.
so again...how is chase a must-have from any standpoint? he certainly isnt because his father played for us. yes, clays boy seems to be good....but dont be so naive to assume that players born of other players will exhibit the same success. so beyond the fact his daddy was a brown, is there anything that makes him special over any of the other prospects in the 2nd round?
Just look at Micheal Jordan and his boys
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And why are we arguing over QB's when Shurmurrrrr doesn't even run a Pro style offense?
He will have his wilddawg full time with Rg3. Oh boy I cant wait.
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What's not to like? What, are you Dan Gilbert's kid?
The answer is: the ridiculous asking price that the Rams and others on here think the Browns should pay to move up to get him.
The price only matters if he doesn't work out.
I look at it like this....if the trade goes down price wise as advertised...two 1st, a 3rd, and a 4th...my view is the deal is costing us a 3rd round pick....all the others are extra picks....we are getting a player, so that covers one of the 1st rounders. Some act like it is costing us 3 1st round picks.
Plus....screw picks. People need to be be less worried about the number of picks we have and be more concerned with getting a few good players....especially one at QB.
Colt McCoy is a Cherub.
The price only matters if he doesn't work out.
I look at it like this....if the trade goes down price wise as advertised...two 1st, a 3rd, and a 4th...my view is the deal is costing us a 3rd round pick....all the others are extra picks....we are getting a player, so that covers one of the 1st rounders. Some act like it is costing us 3 1st round picks.
Plus....screw picks. People need to be be less worried about the number of picks we have and be more concerned with getting a few good players....especially one at QB.
Colt McCoy is a Cherub.
RED= exactly. If he turns out to be as good as JJ thinks he is- we get another Aaron Rodgers level quarterback- the naysayers are going to forget real fast what we gave up to get him.
BTW 'Peen- I should be working for ESPN- not John Clayton. Your scenario was close- mine was dead on what he reported yesterday.
Both firsts, next years second, and if we have to- the fourth we got from Atlanta. The 'Skins will have to give up the equivalent of three first rounders to be in the discussion. His opinion is anyone else would have to give up too much to make the deal. So if that's what goes down in April- we traded Julio Jones for RGIII. Isn't a GM in the NFL on a qb needy team who wouldn't make that trade- but no GM holding the rights to RGIII would ever take it. To show you how badly we fleeced Atlanta- if the Dolphins offered Brandon Marshall and a second round pick for the Rams #2 overall- they'd get laughed out of the room.
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RED= exactly. If he turns out to be as good as JJ thinks he is- we get another Aaron Rodgers level quarterback- the naysayers are going to forget real fast what we gave up to get him.
But, if like 55% of QBs taken in the top 5 historically that are total busts, we have cost ourselves 3-4 potential Pro Bowl players.
Maybe that is why....despite owning property in Las Vegas I am not big of a gambler.
I like better odds. I say we have better odds of hitting on good players with the 3-4 picks that everyone wants us to give up than we have on getting a jackpot with that one player that all those picks would be used on.
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RED= exactly. If he turns out to be as good as JJ thinks he is- we get another Aaron Rodgers level quarterback- the naysayers are going to forget real fast what we gave up to get him.
But, if like 55% of QBs taken in the top 5 historically that are total busts, we have cost ourselves 3-4 potential Pro Bowl players.
Maybe that is why....despite owning property in Las Vegas I am not big of a gambler.
I like better odds. I say we have better odds of hitting on good players with the 3-4 picks that everyone wants us to give up than we have on getting a jackpot with that one player that all those picks would be used on.
RED= exactly. If he turns out to be as good as JJ thinks he is- we get another Aaron Rodgers level quarterback- the naysayers are going to forget real fast what we gave up to get him.
But, if like 55% of QBs taken in the top 5 historically that are total busts, we have cost ourselves 3-4 potential Pro Bowl players.
Maybe that is why....despite owning property in Las Vegas I am not big of a gambler.
I like better odds. I say we have better odds of hitting on good players with the 3-4 picks that everyone wants us to give up than we have on getting a jackpot with that one player that all those picks would be used on.
Yes, that's the dilemma H&H are in. I haven't forgotten Joey Harrington, Akilli Smith, or Ryan Leaf, not by a long shot.
We can patch major holes if we keep the two first round picks- but that's assuming they also pan out. This year it's a two fer one, assuming we make the trade. To my mind taking a chance on a stud qb trumps taking a chance on a stud WR, + (LB, CB, RT).
BTW Gip, FYI- if we make the trade we'll know about it before Thursday evening draft day. The Rams GM was interviewed by Colin Cowherd yesterday- and he had this to say about making the trade. "If we wait until we're on the clock, there isn't enough time in 15 minutes to check the chart, and compare value offered." You may poo-poo that draft value chart, but guess who's using it.
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RED= exactly. If he turns out to be as good as JJ thinks he is- we get another Aaron Rodgers level quarterback- the naysayers are going to forget real fast what we gave up to get him.
But, if like 55% of QBs taken in the top 5 historically that are total busts, we have cost ourselves 3-4 potential Pro Bowl players.
Maybe that is why....despite owning property in Las Vegas I am not big of a gambler.
I like better odds. I say we have better odds of hitting on good players with the 3-4 picks that everyone wants us to give up than we have on getting a jackpot with that one player that all those picks would be used on.
Yes, that's the dilemma H&H are in. I haven't forgotten Joey Harrington, Akilli Smith, or Ryan Leaf, not by a long shot.
We can patch major holes if we keep the two first round picks- but that's assuming they also pan out. This year it's a two fer one, assuming we make the trade. To my mind taking a chance on a stud qb trumps taking a chance on a stud WR, + (LB, CB, RT).
BTW Gip, FYI- if we make the trade we'll know about it before Thursday evening draft day. The Rams GM was interviewed by Colin Cowherd yesterday- and he had this to say about making the trade. "If we wait until we're on the clock, there isn't enough time in 15 minutes to check the chart, and compare value offered." You may poo-poo that draft value chart, but guess who's using it.
Yes, that's the dilemma H&H are in. I haven't forgotten Joey Harrington, Akilli Smith, or Ryan Leaf, not by a long shot.
We can patch major holes if we keep the two first round picks- but that's assuming they also pan out. This year it's a two fer one, assuming we make the trade. To my mind taking a chance on a stud qb trumps taking a chance on a stud WR, + (LB, CB, RT).
BTW Gip, FYI- if we make the trade we'll know about it before Thursday evening draft day. The Rams GM was interviewed by Colin Cowherd yesterday- and he had this to say about making the trade. "If we wait until we're on the clock, there isn't enough time in 15 minutes to check the chart, and compare value offered." You may poo-poo that draft value chart, but guess who's using it.
I am not saying they don't use it. I am saying it is still bogus and arbitrary. In 1978 the Browns had two draft picks and selected one Hall of Famer and another near Hall of Famer, with the 12 and 23 picks. I will still take my chances on hitting on one out of two of those rather than losing them both to draft a Joey Harrington, Akili Smith or Ryan Leaf.
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I, like most people, would like to see RG3 in a Browns uni, but at the right price. Our two first round picks should be more than enough for any unproven player. Our two first's plus another pick would be pushing it. Anything beyond that is just "blow your brains out with a 12 gauge shotgun" stupid. I would give up our #4 pick this year, and a first next year to get him. I would seriously have to think about giving anything more than that.
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The whole thing for me is this: If the Browns swap firsts with the Rams and get a third and fourth out of the deal, it is still a good deal for the Rams. The own the second pick, they don't Need Andrew Luck or RG3(the consensus #1 & #2 in the draft this year). They are most likely targeting Matt Kalil or Justin Blackmon, if they trade with the Browns then they are guaranteed one of those players. If they decided to swap with another team- then the players they most covet will most assuredly be gone by the time they are on the clock. So it's like this- They think they hold all the cards but in reality we have them by the balls. Trade with us and you'll get a couple extra picks and can sleep well at night and know that one of your guys will be there when you're on the clock, or, screw us and your guy is ours.
The secret of getting ahead is getting started. The secret of getting started is breaking your complex overwhelming tasks into small manageable tasks, and then starting on the first one. -Mark Twain- "It's not the size of the dog in the fight, it's the size of the fight in the dog." -Mark Twain- -
RED= exactly. If he turns out to be as good as JJ thinks he is- we get another Aaron Rodgers level quarterback- the naysayers are going to forget real fast what we gave up to get him.
But, if like 55% of QBs taken in the top 5 historically that are total busts, we have cost ourselves 3-4 potential Pro Bowl players.
Maybe that is why....despite owning property in Las Vegas I am not big of a gambler.
I like better odds. I say we have better odds of hitting on good players with the 3-4 picks that everyone wants us to give up than we have on getting a jackpot with that one player that all those picks would be used on.
RED= exactly. If he turns out to be as good as JJ thinks he is- we get another Aaron Rodgers level quarterback- the naysayers are going to forget real fast what we gave up to get him.
But, if like 55% of QBs taken in the top 5 historically that are total busts, we have cost ourselves 3-4 potential Pro Bowl players.
Maybe that is why....despite owning property in Las Vegas I am not big of a gambler.
I like better odds. I say we have better odds of hitting on good players with the 3-4 picks that everyone wants us to give up than we have on getting a jackpot with that one player that all those picks would be used on.
I really hate that logic. Who in the history of the draft nabbed 3-4 pro bowl players with a couple of first rounders and a second? It just doesn't happen like that. You have a much Bette chance of drafting one long term starter and a couple of guys who hold a spot for a couple of seasons.
Even the Dallas Cowboys and their 33 (that's not a typo) picks over two years - on he heels of the Herschel Walker trade drafted only three multi Pro Bowlers*:
#9 in Round 2 in 1992 - Darren Woodson
#15 in Round 3 in 1991 - Erik Williams
#6 in Round 7 in 1991 - Leon Lett
*The Cowboys traded Minnesota's 1st round pick in the 1990 draft in combination with others to draft Emmitt Smith.
The rest were largely role players and short termers.
The success of Cowboys Dynasty in actuality, didn't have nearly as much to do with the cache of picks liberated from the Minnesota Vikings, as it had to do with the fact that they nabbed a legit star of a quarterback with their own pick in 1989, held on to a couple of pieces, and simply added some complementary players over the next couple of seasons.
Oh, and you might get lucky and trade up to draft a linebacker only to have the Bengals take him one pick earlier and get stuck drafting one of he most durable and effective running backs in the history of football.
-jj
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The whole thing for me is this: If the Browns swap firsts with the Rams and get a third and fourth out of the deal, it is still a good deal for the Rams. The own the second pick, they don't Need Andrew Luck or RG3(the consensus #1 & #2 in the draft this year). They are most likely targeting Matt Kalil or Justin Blackmon, if they trade with the Browns then they are guaranteed one of those players. If they decided to swap with another team- then the players they most covet will most assuredly be gone by the time they are on the clock. So it's like this- They think they hold all the cards but in reality we have them by the balls. Trade with us and you'll get a couple extra picks and can sleep well at night and know that one of your guys will be there when you're on the clock, or, screw us and your guy is ours.
The whole thing for me is this: If the Browns swap firsts with the Rams and get a third and fourth out of the deal, it is still a good deal for the Rams. The own the second pick, they don't Need Andrew Luck or RG3(the consensus #1 & #2 in the draft this year). They are most likely targeting Matt Kalil or Justin Blackmon, if they trade with the Browns then they are guaranteed one of those players. If they decided to swap with another team- then the players they most covet will most assuredly be gone by the time they are on the clock. So it's like this- They think they hold all the cards but in reality we have them by the balls. Trade with us and you'll get a couple extra picks and can sleep well at night and know that one of your guys will be there when you're on the clock, or, screw us and your guy is ours.
If nobody above us wants RG3 then we dont have to make any trades that is if we want him at #4. I could see this whole thing as a smoke screen or even for a bigger trade with another team after we obtain the pick.
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The whole thing for me is this: If the Browns swap firsts with the Rams and get a third and fourth out of the deal, it is still a good deal for the Rams. The own the second pick, they don't Need Andrew Luck or RG3(the consensus #1 & #2 in the draft this year). They are most likely targeting Matt Kalil or Justin Blackmon, if they trade with the Browns then they are guaranteed one of those players. If they decided to swap with another team- then the players they most covet will most assuredly be gone by the time they are on the clock. So it's like this- They think they hold all the cards but in reality we have them by the balls. Trade with us and you'll get a couple extra picks and can sleep well at night and know that one of your guys will be there when you're on the clock, or, screw us and your guy is ours.
If nobody above us wants RG3 then we dont have to make any trades that is if we want him at #4. I could see this whole thing as a smoke screen or even for a bigger trade with another team after we obtain the pick.
If nobody above us wants RG3 then we don't have to make any trades that is if we want him at #4. I could see this whole thing as a smoke screen or even for a bigger trade with another team after we obtain the pick.
Dead wrong T. There's two quarterback starved teams below us, and a couple others way down in the drafting order willing and able to give up silly amounts of picks and\or players to move up to #2. It's not a smokescreen.
However, in the trade up derby, the Browns hold the high cards- it's up to H&H to decide how many of them they want, or need to play. Blackmon\Kalil and our #22 pick are two high trump cards no other team can match.
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RED= exactly. If he turns out to be as good as JJ thinks he is- we get another Aaron Rodgers level quarterback- the naysayers are going to forget real fast what we gave up to get him.
But, if like 55% of QBs taken in the top 5 historically that are total busts, we have cost ourselves 3-4 potential Pro Bowl players.
Maybe that is why....despite owning property in Las Vegas I am not big of a gambler.
I like better odds. I say we have better odds of hitting on good players with the 3-4 picks that everyone wants us to give up than we have on getting a jackpot with that one player that all those picks would be used on.
I really hate that logic. Who in the history of the draft nabbed 3-4 pro bowl players with a couple of first rounders and a second? It just doesn't happen like that. You have a much Bette chance of drafting one long term starter and a couple of guys who hold a spot for a couple of seasons.
Even the Dallas Cowboys and their 33 (that's not a typo) picks over two years - on he heels of the Herschel Walker trade drafted only three multi Pro Bowlers*:
#9 in Round 2 in 1992 - Darren Woodson
#15 in Round 3 in 1991 - Erik Williams
#6 in Round 7 in 1991 - Leon Lett
*The Cowboys traded Minnesota's 1st round pick in the 1990 draft in combination with others to draft Emmitt Smith.
The rest were largely role players and short termers.
The success of Cowboys Dynasty in actuality, didn't have nearly as much to do with the cache of picks liberated from the Minnesota Vikings, as it had to do with the fact that they nabbed a legit star of a quarterback with their own pick in 1989, held on to a couple of pieces, and simply added some complementary players over the next couple of seasons.
Oh, and you might get lucky and trade up to draft a linebacker only to have the Bengals take him one pick earlier and get stuck drafting one of he most durable and effective running backs in the history of football.
-jj
I really hate that logic. Who in the history of the draft nabbed 3-4 pro bowl players with a couple of first rounders and a second? It just doesn't happen like that. You have a much Better chance of drafting one long term starter and a couple of guys who hold a spot for a couple of seasons.
-jj
I know you said first two rounds- but the Steelers did draft 4 Hall of Famers in ONE draft, 1974. Swann, Lambert, Stallworth, and Webster. The odds of that happening again before the Second Coming are about zero.
Any team that can repeat the feat should be in line to win 4 Super Bowls, just like they did.
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If nobody above us wants RG3 then we don't have to make any trades that is if we want him at #4. I could see this whole thing as a smoke screen or even for a bigger trade with another team after we obtain the pick.
Dead wrong T. There's two quarterback starved teams below us, and a couple others way down in the drafting order willing and able to give up silly amounts of picks and\or players to move up to #2. It's not a smokescreen.
However, in the trade up derby, the Browns hold the high cards- it's up to H&H to decide how many of them they want, or need to play. Blackmon\Kalil and our #22 pick are two high trump cards no other team can match.
Dead wrong T. There's two quarterback starved teams below us, and a couple others way down in the drafting order willing and able to give up silly amounts of picks and\or players to move up to #2. It's not a smokescreen.
However, in the trade up derby, the Browns hold the high cards- it's up to H&H to decide how many of them they want, or need to play. Blackmon\Kalil and our #22 pick are two high trump cards no other team can match.
You just mad my point to my smoke screen assumption. Look at all of the picks that the Browns could land by grabbing Rg3 and trading him to another team.
Head or Gut? -
On top of the psychics on this board there are a lot of statisticians ... bad ones. Lol
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Happy I can help.
You gotta admit its funny though. If someone wants RGIII he's a sure thing and the picks we lose are toss ups. If someone doesn't want RGIII he's not that good and the picks we lose are potential pro bowlers
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Dead wrong T. There's two quarterback starved teams below us, and a couple others way down in the drafting order willing and able to give up silly amounts of picks and\or players to move up to #2. It's not a smokescreen.
However, in the trade up derby, the Browns hold the high cards- it's up to H&H to decide how many of them they want, or need to play. Blackmon\Kalil and our #22 pick are two high trump cards no other team can match.
You just mad my point to my smoke screen assumption. Look at all of the picks that the Browns could land by grabbing Rg3 and trading him to another team.
You just mad my point to my smoke screen assumption. Look at all of the picks that the Browns could land by grabbing Rg3 and trading him to another team.
You want to trade away a potential franchise qb after we have him? Turn in your fantasy football membership.
Go look at the teams that have won multiple Super Bowls- and there's one common thread- a super-stud qb, something McCoy is not, and highly doubtful will ever be.
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has anyone ever thought that the browns might not even want RGlll and will do a patriots and trade down 2 spot get their guy and pick up 2 xtra picks. HA!!
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has anyone ever thought that the browns might not even want RGlll and will do a patriots and trade down 2 spot get their guy and pick up 2 xtra picks. HA!!
has anyone ever thought that the browns might not even want RGlll and will do a patriots and trade down 2 spot get their guy and pick up 2 xtra picks. HA!!
Not saying it will happen, but that's what Holmgren did in Seattle when he had two firsts (even better than what Cleveland has now) and Vick was in the draft.
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i hope we do trade down just enough to get claiborne. he'd fill 2 spots on our roster the other CB that we need and a kcik off/punt returner. plus get xtra picks. no brainer in my book.
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