Qb Musical Chairs
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Wheeden is NOT too old...and there's no way Cleveland is sold on Colt McCoy. They wouldn't have sniffed at RG3 if they were. We heard all about how our offensive line was changed to suit Colt's strengths and the he only played a tad better, in yards...his completion % and win/loss record both dropped.
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Wheeden is NOT too old...and there's no way Cleveland is sold on Colt McCoy. They wouldn't have sniffed at RG3 if they were. We heard all about how our offensive line was changed to suit Colt's strengths and the he only played a tad better, in yards...his completion % and win/loss record both dropped.
Wheeden is NOT too old...and there's no way Cleveland is sold on Colt McCoy. They wouldn't have sniffed at RG3 if they were. We heard all about how our offensive line was changed to suit Colt's strengths and the he only played a tad better, in yards...his completion % and win/loss record both dropped.
yeah, like no training camp, a new rookie head coach (who knows shit), a new offensive scheme. no running game, no receivers and no right side protection didn't have anything to do with mccoy's decreased qb #'s.
i never once heard anyone say that our OL was changed. i just know our right side sucks ass.
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I like Weedon, just not in the first or early second. Late second or early 3rd and I am fine with it.
I like Weedon, just not in the first or early second. Late second or early 3rd and I am fine with it.
That's what I was thinking. Use the first round picks (maybe after trading down) on offense, early second on defense, then Weeden.
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I like Weedon, just not in the first or early second. Late second or early 3rd and I am fine with it.
That's what I was thinking. Use the first round picks (maybe after trading down) on offense, early second on defense, then Weeden.
That's what I was thinking. Use the first round picks (maybe after trading down) on offense, early second on defense, then Weeden.
Why are we taking more project QB? Take sure shot picks that will stay with us longer and get a QB if needed in the 6th or 7th round.
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exactly. everybody falls in love with certain players and want the browns to 'take a shot' on these guys.
hell, i was screaming for the browns to draft the qb tony pike outta cinci last year because i liked his size and arm strength. i think he's baggin groceries now at the local winn dixie.
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That's what I was thinking. Use the first round picks (maybe after trading down) on offense, early second on defense, then Weeden.
Why are we taking more project QB? Take sure shot picks that will stay with us longer and get a QB if needed in the 6th or 7th round.
Why are we taking more project QB? Take sure shot picks that will stay with us longer and get a QB if needed in the 6th or 7th round.
Because no one knows what a "sure shot" QB or a "project QB" is. Even Luck and Griffin are not sure shots...even they, in fact, are projects.
I mean, remember, Mike Phipps was the "Sure shot QB" drafted #3 overall in the 1970 draft.
Brian Sipe was the "project", drafted 330th overall in the 1972 draft. They don't even pick 330 players anymore. Today he would have been a street free agent.
How'd all that turn out?
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Why are we taking more project QB? Take sure shot picks that will stay with us longer and get a QB if needed in the 6th or 7th round.
Because no one knows what a "sure shot" QB or a "project QB" is. Even Luck and Griffin are not sure shots...even they, in fact, are projects.
I mean, remember, Mike Phipps was the "Sure shot QB" drafted #3 overall in the 1970 draft.
Brian Sipe was the "project", drafted 330th overall in the 1972 draft. They don't even pick 330 players anymore. Today he would have been a street free agent.
How'd all that turn out?
Because no one knows what a "sure shot" QB or a "project QB" is. Even Luck and Griffin are not sure shots...even they, in fact, are projects.
I mean, remember, Mike Phipps was the "Sure shot QB" drafted #3 overall in the 1970 draft.
Brian Sipe was the "project", drafted 330th overall in the 1972 draft. They don't even pick 330 players anymore. Today he would have been a street free agent.
How'd all that turn out?
Sure shot as in - Does he have the basic physical tools? Can he make decent throws? (Accuracy)
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Because no one knows what a "sure shot" QB or a "project QB" is. Even Luck and Griffin are not sure shots...even they, in fact, are projects.
I mean, remember, Mike Phipps was the "Sure shot QB" drafted #3 overall in the 1970 draft.
Brian Sipe was the "project", drafted 330th overall in the 1972 draft. They don't even pick 330 players anymore. Today he would have been a street free agent.
How'd all that turn out?
Sure shot as in - Does he have the basic physical tools? Can he make decent throws? (Accuracy)
Sure shot as in - Does he have the basic physical tools? Can he make decent throws? (Accuracy)
You mean like: Jamarcus Russell? He had an arm like Jagger and could make every throw. Did it help?
There is no absolute sure shot. You could bet the ranch on a guy like Andrew Luck and probably be right. But not for certain.
There has only ever been one Sure Thing:
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Because no one knows what a "sure shot" QB or a "project QB" is. Even Luck and Griffin are not sure shots...even they, in fact, are projects.
I mean, remember, Mike Phipps was the "Sure shot QB" drafted #3 overall in the 1970 draft.
Brian Sipe was the "project", drafted 330th overall in the 1972 draft. They don't even pick 330 players anymore. Today he would have been a street free agent.
How'd all that turn out?
Sure shot as in - Does he have the basic physical tools? Can he make decent throws? (Accuracy)
Sure shot as in - Does he have the basic physical tools? Can he make decent throws? (Accuracy)
Weeden hits on all of those. The only "minus" in his scouting report is his age. He could probably give you six or seven good years though.
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Sure shot as in - Does he have the basic physical tools? Can he make decent throws? (Accuracy)
Weeden hits on all of those. The only "minus" in his scouting report is his age. He could probably give you six or seven good years though.
Weeden hits on all of those. The only "minus" in his scouting report is his age. He could probably give you six or seven good years though.
Even if it took him a year to get good we would still have 5 good years with him and him alone, not 8 different starters in 5 years.
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Why are we taking more project QB? Take sure shot picks that will stay with us longer and get a QB if needed in the 6th or 7th round.
Because no one knows what a "sure shot" QB or a "project QB" is. Even Luck and Griffin are not sure shots...even they, in fact, are projects.
I mean, remember, Mike Phipps was the "Sure shot QB" drafted #3 overall in the 1970 draft.
Brian Sipe was the "project", drafted 330th overall in the 1972 draft. They don't even pick 330 players anymore. Today he would have been a street free agent.
How'd all that turn out?
Because no one knows what a "sure shot" QB or a "project QB" is. Even Luck and Griffin are not sure shots...even they, in fact, are projects.
I mean, remember, Mike Phipps was the "Sure shot QB" drafted #3 overall in the 1970 draft.
Brian Sipe was the "project", drafted 330th overall in the 1972 draft. They don't even pick 330 players anymore. Today he would have been a street free agent.
How'd all that turn out?
One was a complete washout... Although did manage to win 7 more games than he lost or a career.
The other managed a productive three and a half year career, too bad it took him thirteen years to do it. Grabbed one division title, and fell off the map, after winning 2 more games than he lost as a starter.
The legend of Brian Sipe is so much better than the player himself. People forget that Sipe's legendary season wasn't even as productive as Scott Mitchell's '95 season with the Lions... And it's widely accepted that he was one of the biggest free agent busts in history.
-jj
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Sure shot as in - Does he have the basic physical tools? Can he make decent throws? (Accuracy)
Weeden hits on all of those. The only "minus" in his scouting report is his age. He could probably give you six or seven good years though.
Weeden hits on all of those. The only "minus" in his scouting report is his age. He could probably give you six or seven good years though.
There is more - He is not a vociferous team leader, but often has too much confidence in his arm. He needs to improve pocket awareness and stepping up. Weeden sometimes negates his height with a 3/4 side-arm delivery that might have concerned right handed batters, but is ripe for an alert defensive lineman to bat down. He looks excellent when timing is on, but sails wild pitches off his back foot when things break down. Weeden ruptured a tendon in his right thumb the first game of 2010 but played through the injury. Most of all, his production was too gaudy to overlook. In little more than two seasons he completed 766 of 1,102 passes (69.5 pct) for 9,260 yards, 75 touchdowns and 27 interceptions (157.7 passer rating). - Frank Cooney - The Sports Xchange, NFL Draft Scout
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Sure shot as in - Does he have the basic physical tools? Can he make decent throws? (Accuracy)
You mean like: Jamarcus Russell? He had an arm like Jagger and could make every throw. Did it help?
There is no absolute sure shot. You could bet the ranch on a guy like Andrew Luck and probably be right. But not for certain.
There has only ever been one Sure Thing:
You mean like: Jamarcus Russell? He had an arm like Jagger and could make every throw. Did it help?
There is no absolute sure shot. You could bet the ranch on a guy like Andrew Luck and probably be right. But not for certain.
There has only ever been one Sure Thing:
JaMarcus Russell was said to be the QB with the most upside and physical tools. Also, It was pointed out that he was never a leader and always needed his seniors to help him. He would have had a very decent career if he had gone to a team with stable coaching. Unfortunately he landed up in Oakland. Remember - Lane Kiffin the then coach did not want JR. Something that we came to know after Al Davis fired him. Maybe Al Davis was right to fire Lane Kiffin, But Al DAvis siding with JR instead of Kiffin surely signals a franchise whose leaders only value physical tools to other intangibles. He was a bad fit for Oakland. Im sure JR would have had a decent career in say a place like Philadelphia or something.
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Because no one knows what a "sure shot" QB or a "project QB" is. Even Luck and Griffin are not sure shots...even they, in fact, are projects.
I mean, remember, Mike Phipps was the "Sure shot QB" drafted #3 overall in the 1970 draft.
Brian Sipe was the "project", drafted 330th overall in the 1972 draft. They don't even pick 330 players anymore. Today he would have been a street free agent.
How'd all that turn out?
One was a complete washout... Although did manage to win 7 more games than he lost or a career.
The other managed a productive three and a half year career, too bad it took him thirteen years to do it. Grabbed one division title, and fell off the map, after winning 2 more games than he lost as a starter.
The legend of Brian Sipe is so much better than the player himself. People forget that Sipe's legendary season wasn't even as productive as Scott Mitchell's '95 season with the Lions... And it's widely accepted that he was one of the biggest free agent busts in history.
-jj
One was a complete washout... Although did manage to win 7 more games than he lost or a career.
The other managed a productive three and a half year career, too bad it took him thirteen years to do it. Grabbed one division title, and fell off the map, after winning 2 more games than he lost as a starter.
The legend of Brian Sipe is so much better than the player himself. People forget that Sipe's legendary season wasn't even as productive as Scott Mitchell's '95 season with the Lions... And it's widely accepted that he was one of the biggest free agent busts in history.
-jj
I think you are shortchanging Brian Sipe. First off, he was the Browns primary starting QB in 7 seasons: 76, 77, 78, 79, 80, 81, and 83. He would have been primary in an 8th season as well in 1982 except he was injured and started only 6 games.
And as for his "legendary" season, he was named the NFL's MVP. He threw for over 4000 yards. Only 2 people in history ever did that before: Namath and Fouts. (Because of changes in the game, these "production" numbers get scewed. There were 11 4000 yard QBs in the NFL last year...you need to compare him to the competition of his era, not to the numbers of later QBs.) And Sipe was "productive" enough in his career to still be the Browns career leader in most QB categories, like yards and TDs....more than even Otto Graham and Bernie Kosar. (and yes, with Graham, the same concept applies...you can't really compare apples to apples when looking at raw numbers).
As for Sipe being a bust as a free agent. I don't know if that is true. He went to the USFL after 12 years with the Browns for the bucks. (the stats don't show up because for 2 years he was on the Taxi Squad and never saw the field). I believe he did fairly well with the New Jersey Generals the year he was there. Then he left for the Jacksonville Bulls where he concluded his 14 year career due to injury.
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You mean like: Jamarcus Russell? He had an arm like Jagger and could make every throw. Did it help?
There is no absolute sure shot. You could bet the ranch on a guy like Andrew Luck and probably be right. But not for certain.
There has only ever been one Sure Thing:
JaMarcus Russell was said to be the QB with the most upside and physical tools. Also, It was pointed out that he was never a leader and always needed his seniors to help him. He would have had a very decent career if he had gone to a team with stable coaching. Unfortunately he landed up in Oakland. Remember - Lane Kiffin the then coach did not want JR. Something that we came to know after Al Davis fired him. Maybe Al Davis was right to fire Lane Kiffin, But Al DAvis siding with JR instead of Kiffin surely signals a franchise whose leaders only value physical tools to other intangibles. He was a bad fit for Oakland. Im sure JR would have had a decent career in say a place like Philadelphia or something.
JaMarcus Russell was said to be the QB with the most upside and physical tools. Also, It was pointed out that he was never a leader and always needed his seniors to help him. He would have had a very decent career if he had gone to a team with stable coaching. Unfortunately he landed up in Oakland. Remember - Lane Kiffin the then coach did not want JR. Something that we came to know after Al Davis fired him. Maybe Al Davis was right to fire Lane Kiffin, But Al DAvis siding with JR instead of Kiffin surely signals a franchise whose leaders only value physical tools to other intangibles. He was a bad fit for Oakland. Im sure JR would have had a decent career in say a place like Philadelphia or something.
Except of course Russell had any number of chances to rejuvenate his career and go to a place that would have been more nurturing.
I mean, figure this: Russell is today March 2012 only 27 years old. He is younger now than Brandon Wheedon is who is up to be drafted as a rookie this year. He would just be playing in his 6th season in the NFL in 2012.
If he was worth a shit he could try to come back and play right now.
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Zombo said:
Someone needs to sell me on Tannehill. I watched him toward the end of the season with great anticipation and went "Meh".
I could see why the Browns would be interested, I really I can. He has good size, lots of experience, and played in Mike Sherman's system.
Those are all big pluses in my book. But when I watched him play he seemed average arm, average accuracy, and a little slow making decisions. Meh.
I see the updside in him, but he kind makes me want to give Colt another year in the system and save the #22 for another starting player.
If the Browns DO draft him, I will feel OK because I know Holmgren is going off of Sherman's report on him and they are all on the same page when it comes to QBs.
I just wish somebody could get me excited about him, then I'd be the full-blown Shep "QB whore" that everyone loves to hate.
Zombo
I'm with you. I was not overly impresses with Tannehill other than his size. Not that he is not good but not sure he would be better than Colt. Along those same lines next year, Barkley is basically a Colt replica so we should stop that talk now.
I'm with you. I was not overly impresses with Tannehill other than his size. Not that he is not good but not sure he would be better than Colt. Along those same lines next year, Barkley is basically a Colt replica so we should stop that talk now.
I can't see Tannehill going anywhere near the 1st round. I think the 5 round might be about right.
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JaMarcus Russell was said to be the QB with the most upside and physical tools. Also, It was pointed out that he was never a leader and always needed his seniors to help him. He would have had a very decent career if he had gone to a team with stable coaching. Unfortunately he landed up in Oakland. Remember - Lane Kiffin the then coach did not want JR. Something that we came to know after Al Davis fired him. Maybe Al Davis was right to fire Lane Kiffin, But Al DAvis siding with JR instead of Kiffin surely signals a franchise whose leaders only value physical tools to other intangibles. He was a bad fit for Oakland. Im sure JR would have had a decent career in say a place like Philadelphia or something.
Except of course Russell had any number of chances to rejuvenate his career and go to a place that would have been more nurturing.
I mean, figure this: Russell is today March 2012 only 27 years old. He is younger now than Brandon Wheedon is who is up to be drafted as a rookie this year. He would just be playing in his 6th season in the NFL in 2012.
If he was worth a shit he could try to come back and play right now.
Except of course Russell had any number of chances to rejuvenate his career and go to a place that would have been more nurturing.
I mean, figure this: Russell is today March 2012 only 27 years old. He is younger now than Brandon Wheedon is who is up to be drafted as a rookie this year. He would just be playing in his 6th season in the NFL in 2012.
If he was worth a shit he could try to come back and play right now.
He sure can if he was motivated enogh. But unfortunately he is not a self motivator or a leader as the scouting said accurately and he already got paid big time money. Infact there were a few scouts expecting oakland to take calvin johnson.
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Back to the Quarterback musical chairs. While there has been all this folderol about quarterbacks coming and going, I figured out that really only 4 or potentially 5 teams actually change their QB from last year:
Colts will go with rookie Andrew Luck
Redskins will go with RGIII
Broncos will switch to Manning
Seahawks will go with Matt Flynn
....and it is possible that the Jags could end up with Tim Tebow, or not. And even if they get Tebow, he may merely end up in a QB competition with Blaine Gabbert and/or Chad Henne.
The Broncos need a QB so whatever trade they make for Tebow, I think they should get a potential backup for Manning in the deal (as, I think, other than Tebow, the Broncos don't have a backup QB at this point, do they?) and getting either Gabbert or Henne from the Jags makes some sense.
Every other team but those 4 or 5 are going with the guys they had last year:
Pats: Brady
Giants: E. Manning
Jets: Sanchez
Bills: Fitzpatrick
Eagles: Vick
Steelers: BR
Ravens: Flacco
Panthers: Newton
Falcons: Ryan
Bucs: Freeman
Dolphins: Matt Moore (only viable option at this point, unless they want Tebow)
Titans: Hasselback/Locker
Bengals: Dalton
Browns: McCoy
Lions: Stafford
Bears: Cutler
Packers: Rodgers
Vikings: Ponder
Chiefs: Cassell
Rams: Bradford
Saints: Brees
Texans: Schaub (or TJ Yates if Schaub injured)
Cowboys: Romo
Cardinals: Kolb
Chargers: Rivers
Raiders: Palmer
49ers: sticking with Alex Smith
So, I suspect that QB movement this year has actually been less than in most years. Its just that you have big name rookies coming in, one big name veteran moving, and one big name personality involved (Tebow) that make it sound like more than it is.
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One was a complete washout... Although did manage to win 7 more games than he lost or a career.
The other managed a productive three and a half year career, too bad it took him thirteen years to do it. Grabbed one division title, and fell off the map, after winning 2 more games than he lost as a starter.
The legend of Brian Sipe is so much better than the player himself. People forget that Sipe's legendary season wasn't even as productive as Scott Mitchell's '95 season with the Lions... And it's widely accepted that he was one of the biggest free agent busts in history.
-jj
I think you are shortchanging Brian Sipe. First off, he was the Browns primary starting QB in 7 seasons: 76, 77, 78, 79, 80, 81, and 83. He would have been primary in an 8th season as well in 1982 except he was injured and started only 6 games.
And as for his "legendary" season, he was named the NFL's MVP. He threw for over 4000 yards. Only 2 people in history ever did that before: Namath and Fouts. (Because of changes in the game, these "production" numbers get scewed. There were 11 4000 yard QBs in the NFL last year...you need to compare him to the competition of his era, not to the numbers of later QBs.) And Sipe was "productive" enough in his career to still be the Browns career leader in most QB categories, like yards and TDs....more than even Otto Graham and Bernie Kosar. (and yes, with Graham, the same concept applies...you can't really compare apples to apples when looking at raw numbers).
As for Sipe being a bust as a free agent. I don't know if that is true. He went to the USFL after 12 years with the Browns for the bucks. (the stats don't show up because for 2 years he was on the Taxi Squad and never saw the field). I believe he did fairly well with the New Jersey Generals the year he was there. Then he left for the Jacksonville Bulls where he concluded his 14 year career due to injury.
I think you are shortchanging Brian Sipe. First off, he was the Browns primary starting QB in 7 seasons: 76, 77, 78, 79, 80, 81, and 83. He would have been primary in an 8th season as well in 1982 except he was injured and started only 6 games.
And as for his "legendary" season, he was named the NFL's MVP. He threw for over 4000 yards. Only 2 people in history ever did that before: Namath and Fouts. (Because of changes in the game, these "production" numbers get scewed. There were 11 4000 yard QBs in the NFL last year...you need to compare him to the competition of his era, not to the numbers of later QBs.) And Sipe was "productive" enough in his career to still be the Browns career leader in most QB categories, like yards and TDs....more than even Otto Graham and Bernie Kosar. (and yes, with Graham, the same concept applies...you can't really compare apples to apples when looking at raw numbers).
As for Sipe being a bust as a free agent. I don't know if that is true. He went to the USFL after 12 years with the Browns for the bucks. (the stats don't show up because for 2 years he was on the Taxi Squad and never saw the field). I believe he did fairly well with the New Jersey Generals the year he was there. Then he left for the Jacksonville Bulls where he concluded his 14 year career due to injury.
I didn't mean to imply that he didn't play for 7 or 8 years. He was only effective for 3 or 4 seasons - basically '78 through about half of '81. By mid way through the '81 season, he was throwing interceptions at a remarkable clip, including 6 in a 22 point loss to the Steelers. A fete he would actually duplicate two years later, this time in Pittsburgh. History is not kind to Brian Sipe... but Cleveland is.
My comparison to Scott Mitchell (he was who I referred to as one of the biggest free agent busts in history), was just to illustrate a point. Scott Mitchell is universally panned as a horrible decision for the Lions. But most people forget that he threw for 4300 yards and 32 TDs with just 12 picks in 1995, and took the Lions to the playoffs. They only seem to remember the abysmal game he had against Philadelphia when he got there. I just feel like at times, fans look at their players through unique lenses.
-jj
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I think you are shortchanging Brian Sipe. First off, he was the Browns primary starting QB in 7 seasons: 76, 77, 78, 79, 80, 81, and 83. He would have been primary in an 8th season as well in 1982 except he was injured and started only 6 games.
And as for his "legendary" season, he was named the NFL's MVP. He threw for over 4000 yards. Only 2 people in history ever did that before: Namath and Fouts. (Because of changes in the game, these "production" numbers get scewed. There were 11 4000 yard QBs in the NFL last year...you need to compare him to the competition of his era, not to the numbers of later QBs.) And Sipe was "productive" enough in his career to still be the Browns career leader in most QB categories, like yards and TDs....more than even Otto Graham and Bernie Kosar. (and yes, with Graham, the same concept applies...you can't really compare apples to apples when looking at raw numbers).
As for Sipe being a bust as a free agent. I don't know if that is true. He went to the USFL after 12 years with the Browns for the bucks. (the stats don't show up because for 2 years he was on the Taxi Squad and never saw the field). I believe he did fairly well with the New Jersey Generals the year he was there. Then he left for the Jacksonville Bulls where he concluded his 14 year career due to injury.
I didn't mean to imply that he didn't play for 7 or 8 years. He was only effective for 3 or 4 seasons - basically '78 through about half of '81. By mid way through the '81 season, he was throwing interceptions at a remarkable clip, including 6 in a 22 point loss to the Steelers. A fete he would actually duplicate two years later, this time in Pittsburgh. History is not kind to Brian Sipe... but Cleveland is.
My comparison to Scott Mitchell (he was who I referred to as one of the biggest free agent busts in history), was just to illustrate a point. Scott Mitchell is universally panned as a horrible decision for the Lions. But most people forget that he threw for 4300 yards and 32 TDs with just 12 picks in 1995, and took the Lions to the playoffs. They only seem to remember the abysmal game he had against Philadelphia when he got there. I just feel like at times, fans look at their players through unique lenses.
-jj
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