Zimmerman To Face Charges
-
To be fair woody: nearly every black person that voted DID vote for Obama, ONLY because hes black. I'm not being sarcastic, I really believe that is the truth.
You can believe it all you like, but that's not what the evidence suggests. The evidence shows that blacks vote overwhelmingly Democratic, and that Obama's race helped add to those totals. But had Obama been white, you're probably still looking at 90% of the black vote. Clearly, his party affiliation has more to do with how they vote. And if you don't think so, I can go find out how blacks have voted for black Republican candidates. I'm sure those will show that their race helped them with the black vote, but not all that much.
Of course, the sample is small, since there really aren't many black Republicans. There are only two in Congress, and before 2010 there were zero.
You can believe it all you like, but that's not what the evidence suggests. The evidence shows that blacks vote overwhelmingly Democratic, and that Obama's race helped add to those totals. But had Obama been white, you're probably still looking at 90% of the black vote. Clearly, his party affiliation has more to do with how they vote. And if you don't think so, I can go find out how blacks have voted for black Republican candidates. I'm sure those will show that their race helped them with the black vote, but not all that much.
Of course, the sample is small, since there really aren't many black Republicans. There are only two in Congress, and before 2010 there were zero.
If Obama were a republican you don't think they would have voted for him? Horseshit.
-
You can believe it all you like, but that's not what the evidence suggests. The evidence shows that blacks vote overwhelmingly Democratic, and that Obama's race helped add to those totals. But had Obama been white, you're probably still looking at 90% of the black vote. Clearly, his party affiliation has more to do with how they vote. And if you don't think so, I can go find out how blacks have voted for black Republican candidates. I'm sure those will show that their race helped them with the black vote, but not all that much.
Of course, the sample is small, since there really aren't many black Republicans. There are only two in Congress, and before 2010 there were zero.
If Obama were a republican you don't think they would have voted for him? Horseshit.
If Obama were a republican you don't think they would have voted for him? Horseshit.
A lot of people don't vote for congressmen or senators because they a: don't care. And B: don't know about the candidates.
Presidential election gets all the attention. If Herman Cain somehow got nominated and he was up against a white male democrat you can bet your bottom dollar there'd be a huge increase in black republicans. Like all of them.
Early man walked away as modern man took control. Their minds weren't all the same and to conquer was their goal. So He built his great empires and he slaughtered his own kind, and he died a confused man and killed himself in his own mind... -
If Obama were a republican you don't think they would have voted for him? Horseshit.
A lot of people don't vote for congressmen or senators because they a: don't care. And B: don't know about the candidates.
Presidential election gets all the attention. If Herman Cain somehow got nominated and he was up against a white male democrat you can bet your bottom dollar there'd be a huge increase in black republicans. Like all of them.
A lot of people don't vote for congressmen or senators because they a: don't care. And B: don't know about the candidates.
Presidential election gets all the attention. If Herman Cain somehow got nominated and he was up against a white male democrat you can bet your bottom dollar there'd be a huge increase in black republicans. Like all of them.
And you know this because of your extensive contact with the black community, correct?
-
You can believe it all you like, but that's not what the evidence suggests. The evidence shows that blacks vote overwhelmingly Democratic, and that Obama's race helped add to those totals. But had Obama been white, you're probably still looking at 90% of the black vote. Clearly, his party affiliation has more to do with how they vote. And if you don't think so, I can go find out how blacks have voted for black Republican candidates. I'm sure those will show that their race helped them with the black vote, but not all that much.
Of course, the sample is small, since there really aren't many black Republicans. There are only two in Congress, and before 2010 there were zero.
If Obama were a republican you don't think they would have voted for him? Horseshit.
If Obama were a republican you don't think they would have voted for him? Horseshit.
No, I don't. If Allen West ran against Hillary Clinton, blacks would overwhelmingly vote for Hillary Clinton. Absolutely.
-
If Obama were a republican you don't think they would have voted for him? Horseshit.
A lot of people don't vote for congressmen or senators because they a: don't care. And B: don't know about the candidates.
Presidential election gets all the attention. If Herman Cain somehow got nominated and he was up against a white male democrat you can bet your bottom dollar there'd be a huge increase in black republicans. Like all of them.
A lot of people don't vote for congressmen or senators because they a: don't care. And B: don't know about the candidates.
Presidential election gets all the attention. If Herman Cain somehow got nominated and he was up against a white male democrat you can bet your bottom dollar there'd be a huge increase in black republicans. Like all of them.
This is really nonsense. It really is. You can believe it, and apparently you do, but it's based on the assumption that all black voters care about is the color of one's skin. Based on some of the stuff you've contributed before, this seems to be beneath you, especially since you're singling out blacks for voting for people of their own race when this is hardly something that is specific to blacks. Hispanics vote for other Hispanics in increased numbers. Jews vote for other Jews in increased numbers. And, of course, whites vote for other whites in increased numbers.
But hey, prove me wrong. Go find me all the blacks that voted for Tim Scott and Allen West.
Again, you're going to have a tough time supporting your thesis since there are almost no black Republicans.
-
Do you even know any black people? As you drive around east Cleveland Barack Obama is diefied. There's murals of him on the sides of gas stations, there's pictures of him everywhere. In black peoples homes when I'm putting their alarms in, there's commemerative plates with him on them. You think its because he's a democrat? I think that's unlikely. There's no statues of Kennedy, lbj, carter or Clinton up on the east side, believe that.
Here's a question: fantasy primary- Clinton vs Obama who wins the black vote?
-
A lot of people don't vote for congressmen or senators because they a: don't care. And B: don't know about the candidates.
Presidential election gets all the attention. If Herman Cain somehow got nominated and he was up against a white male democrat you can bet your bottom dollar there'd be a huge increase in black republicans. Like all of them.
This is really nonsense. It really is. You can believe it, and apparently you do, but it's based on the assumption that all black voters care about is the color of one's skin. Based on some of the stuff you've contributed before, this seems to be beneath you, especially since you're singling out blacks for voting for people of their own race when this is hardly something that is specific to blacks. Hispanics vote for other Hispanics in increased numbers. Jews vote for other Jews in increased numbers. And, of course, whites vote for other whites in increased numbers.
But hey, prove me wrong. Go find me all the blacks that voted for Tim Scott and Allen West.
Again, you're going to have a tough time supporting your thesis since there are almost no black Republicans.
This is really nonsense. It really is. You can believe it, and apparently you do, but it's based on the assumption that all black voters care about is the color of one's skin. Based on some of the stuff you've contributed before, this seems to be beneath you, especially since you're singling out blacks for voting for people of their own race when this is hardly something that is specific to blacks. Hispanics vote for other Hispanics in increased numbers. Jews vote for other Jews in increased numbers. And, of course, whites vote for other whites in increased numbers.
But hey, prove me wrong. Go find me all the blacks that voted for Tim Scott and Allen West.
Again, you're going to have a tough time supporting your thesis since there are almost no black Republicans.
Who the fuck are Tim Scott and Allen west? If I don't know your average inner-city black voter doesn't. Everybody knows who Barack Obama is. BTW I didn't touch the thought that other races do it. Of course they do, but if you're asserting that the majority of black voters would choose a white male democrat over a black male republican, I disagree whole-heartedly. Well never know until that situation presents itself.
-
Except that there is zero evidence to support your notion, and lots of evidence that blacks vote overwhelmingly Democratic, even when the candidate is white. There's also loads and loads of evidence that blacks are extremely hostile to Republican candidates and Republican positions and the Republican Party in general.
Even the point you raised makes my point and not yours. Yes, Obama won the black vote in the primary over Clinton. But he also won the white vote. He won the national vote.
But in the primary, Hillary had an early lead over Obama in the black vote. Then they were evenly split. And then she lost them. She also lost the primary.
If your point is that the black community is proud that there's a black president, I yield to your stunning insight. Next we can go to South Boston and look at all the Kennedy deification, and you can tell me how it's any different. But your point that blacks would vote for a Republican if they were black and not for the Democrat if they were white hasn't a shred of evidence to support it.
Think about it: Condi Rice vs. Hillary. Wouldn't even be close. Of course Rice's race would attract more black votes than in a normal year, but I'd wager blacks would go for Hillary by at least 70-30, and probably more like 80-20.
Allen West vs. Hillary: I'd think West would get even less than Condi.
Colin Powell is the only black Republican I could see considerable crossover votes for, and I'm not sure he considers himself a Republican so much anymore.
-
Except that there is zero evidence to support your notion, and lots of evidence that blacks vote overwhelmingly Democratic, even when the candidate is white. There's also loads and loads of evidence that blacks are extremely hostile to Republican candidates and Republican positions and the Republican Party in general.
Even the point you raised makes my point and not yours. Yes, Obama won the black vote in the primary over Clinton. But he also won the white vote. He won the national vote.
But in the primary, Hillary had an early lead over Obama in the black vote. Then they were evenly split. And then she lost them. She also lost the primary.
If your point is that the black community is proud that there's a black president, I yield to your stunning insight. Next we can go to South Boston and look at all the Kennedy deification, and you can tell me how it's any different. But your point that blacks would vote for a Republican if they were black and not for the Democrat if they were white hasn't a shred of evidence to support it.
Think about it: Condi Rice vs. Hillary. Wouldn't even be close. Of course Rice's race would attract more black votes than in a normal year, but I'd wager blacks would go for Hillary by at least 70-30, and probably more like 80-20.
Allen West vs. Hillary: I'd think West would get even less than Condi.
Colin Powell is the only black Republican I could see considerable crossover votes for, and I'm not sure he considers himself a Republican so much anymore.
Except that there is zero evidence to support your notion, and lots of evidence that blacks vote overwhelmingly Democratic, even when the candidate is white. There's also loads and loads of evidence that blacks are extremely hostile to Republican candidates and Republican positions and the Republican Party in general.
Even the point you raised makes my point and not yours. Yes, Obama won the black vote in the primary over Clinton. But he also won the white vote. He won the national vote.
But in the primary, Hillary had an early lead over Obama in the black vote. Then they were evenly split. And then she lost them. She also lost the primary.
If your point is that the black community is proud that there's a black president, I yield to your stunning insight. Next we can go to South Boston and look at all the Kennedy deification, and you can tell me how it's any different. But your point that blacks would vote for a Republican if they were black and not for the Democrat if they were white hasn't a shred of evidence to support it.
Think about it: Condi Rice vs. Hillary. Wouldn't even be close. Of course Rice's race would attract more black votes than in a normal year, but I'd wager blacks would go for Hillary by at least 70-30, and probably more like 80-20.
Allen West vs. Hillary: I'd think West would get even less than Condi.
Colin Powell is the only black Republican I could see considerable crossover votes for, and I'm not sure he considers himself a Republican so much anymore.
I meant bill Clinton. The "good" Clinton.
You only have data that says black voters vote democrat over republican in smaller elections where they possibly don't know thing one about who they're voting for except party affiliations. When they put a photo of the candidate next to the name i suspect your statistical numbers will begin to change. Plus in only one election were they able to choose a highly visable black leader over a white one and they did. Your statistics mean nothing if there was only one election where that choice was totally obvious.
-
You have data...
BUT I HAVE SPECULATION!
I win
-
Cysko, I don't want to want to separate you from your opinion that blacks don't have a political thought in their heads beyond "black candidate good", so really, you can keep it. I'm just pointing out that there's no evidence to support your point, and lots of evidence to support mine.
I can't imagine any serious political observer would share your view that a black Republican would instantly and automatically win most of the black votes over a white Democrat.
Or you can ask yourself this: why are there so few black Republicans? In Congress there are only two. Before 2010, there were zero. You'd have to go back to JC Watts, who retired in 2003. And when he was in Congress, he was the only one. Also, the two that are in Congress now were voted in overwhelmingly by white Republicans, not blacks.
You might want to consider the idea that the black community by and large doesn't like the Republican Party, or vote for it. If you need any clues as to why, just read the Republicans in here.
-
Cysko, I don't want to want to separate you from your opinion that blacks don't have a political thought in their heads beyond "black candidate good", so really, you can keep it. I'm just pointing out that there's no evidence to support your point, and lots of evidence to support mine.
I can't imagine any serious political observer would share your view that a black Republican would instantly and automatically win most of the black votes over a white Democrat.
Or you can ask yourself this: why are there so few black Republicans? In Congress there are only two. Before 2010, there were zero. You'd have to go back to JC Watts, who retired in 2003. And when he was in Congress, he was the only one. Also, the two that are in Congress now were voted in overwhelmingly by white Republicans, not blacks.
You might want to consider the idea that the black community by and large doesn't like the Republican Party, or vote for it. If you need any clues as to why, just read the Republicans in here.
Cysko, I don't want to want to separate you from your opinion that blacks don't have a political thought in their heads beyond "black candidate good", so really, you can keep it. I'm just pointing out that there's no evidence to support your point, and lots of evidence to support mine.
I can't imagine any serious political observer would share your view that a black Republican would instantly and automatically win most of the black votes over a white Democrat.
Or you can ask yourself this: why are there so few black Republicans? In Congress there are only two. Before 2010, there were zero. You'd have to go back to JC Watts, who retired in 2003. And when he was in Congress, he was the only one. Also, the two that are in Congress now were voted in overwhelmingly by white Republicans, not blacks.
You might want to consider the idea that the black community by and large doesn't like the Republican Party, or vote for it. If you need any clues as to why, just read the Republicans in here.
And I answered you because no one knows or cares. President is visable, congress is not. You are giving me old data of who black people voted for in the past and trying to tell me its relevant. You don't know WHY blacks voted for Obama. I have my theory and you have yours. If mine assumes every black votes solely on the basis if race. Yours assumes they only vote solely on loyalty to a single party affiliation. What's the difference? They both assume black voters vote blindly.
-
Creationism: "Its my theory! I have no real proof... but I believe it!"
Evolution: "My theory. I have a shit load of evidence"
Apparently we can't pick one... bummer...
-
Cysko, I don't want to want to separate you from your opinion that blacks don't have a political thought in their heads beyond "black candidate good", so really, you can keep it. I'm just pointing out that there's no evidence to support your point, and lots of evidence to support mine.
I can't imagine any serious political observer would share your view that a black Republican would instantly and automatically win most of the black votes over a white Democrat.
Or you can ask yourself this: why are there so few black Republicans? In Congress there are only two. Before 2010, there were zero. You'd have to go back to JC Watts, who retired in 2003. And when he was in Congress, he was the only one. Also, the two that are in Congress now were voted in overwhelmingly by white Republicans, not blacks.
You might want to consider the idea that the black community by and large doesn't like the Republican Party, or vote for it. If you need any clues as to why, just read the Republicans in here.
And I answered you because no one knows or cares. President is visable, congress is not. You are giving me old data of who black people voted for in the past and trying to tell me its relevant. You don't know WHY blacks voted for Obama. I have my theory and you have yours. If mine assumes every black votes solely on the basis if race. Yours assumes they only vote solely on loyalty to a single party affiliation. What's the difference? They both assume black voters vote blindly.
And I answered you because no one knows or cares. President is visable, congress is not. You are giving me old data of who black people voted for in the past and trying to tell me its relevant. You don't know WHY blacks voted for Obama. I have my theory and you have yours. If mine assumes every black votes solely on the basis if race. Yours assumes they only vote solely on loyalty to a single party affiliation. What's the difference? They both assume black voters vote blindly.
Um, no. My stance is not that blacks vote solely on the basis of party affiliation, but that they're extremely loyal to the Democratic Party and hostile to the Republican Party. Like any other voting bloc, they have a myriad of issues that they consider.
-
And I answered you because no one knows or cares. President is visable, congress is not. You are giving me old data of who black people voted for in the past and trying to tell me its relevant. You don't know WHY blacks voted for Obama. I have my theory and you have yours. If mine assumes every black votes solely on the basis if race. Yours assumes they only vote solely on loyalty to a single party affiliation. What's the difference? They both assume black voters vote blindly.
Um, no. My stance is not that blacks vote solely on the basis of party affiliation, but that they're extremely loyal to the Democratic Party and hostile to the Republican Party. Like any other voting bloc, they have a myriad of issues that they consider.
Um, no. My stance is not that blacks vote solely on the basis of party affiliation, but that they're extremely loyal to the Democratic Party and hostile to the Republican Party. Like any other voting bloc, they have a myriad of issues that they consider.
How you can sit there and blast derbyshire's statistics but glorify your own is hypocritical. Either statistics tell the whole story and derbyshire is right, or they don't and yours mean nothing.
-
Now you're really reaching.
My problem with Derbyshire isn't that he posts IQ statistics. Those disparities have been researched, published, and debated for years. Hell, we were talking about The Bell Curve when I was in college. Maybe those numbers were new for some people in here, but they're not for others.
The problem with Derbyshire is that he makes leaps from those studies/statistics that aren't borne out by the studies/statistics themselves, but rest on his personal prejudices. Also that a few of his links don't represent statistical evidence at all, but anecdotal evidence that proves nothing, except that he doesn't like black people much. This is why he's being pilloried by just about everyone on the staff of the magazine he worked for - he's not arguing very well, and using those poor arguments to come to some pretty revolting conclusions.
-
Now you're really reaching.
My problem with Derbyshire isn't that he posts IQ statistics. Those disparities have been researched, published, and debated for years. Hell, we were talking about The Bell Curve when I was in college. Maybe those numbers were new for some people in here, but they're not for others.
The problem with Derbyshire is that he makes leaps from those studies/statistics that aren't borne out by the studies/statistics themselves, but rest on his personal prejudices. Also that a few of his links don't represent statistical evidence at all, but anecdotal evidence that proves nothing, except that he doesn't like black people much. This is why he's being pilloried by just about everyone on the staff of the magazine he worked for - he's not arguing very well, and using those poor arguments to come to some pretty revolting conclusions.
Now you're really reaching.
My problem with Derbyshire isn't that he posts IQ statistics. Those disparities have been researched, published, and debated for years. Hell, we were talking about The Bell Curve when I was in college. Maybe those numbers were new for some people in here, but they're not for others.
The problem with Derbyshire is that he makes leaps from those studies/statistics that aren't borne out by the studies/statistics themselves, but rest on his personal prejudices. Also that a few of his links don't represent statistical evidence at all, but anecdotal evidence that proves nothing, except that he doesn't like black people much. This is why he's being pilloried by just about everyone on the staff of the magazine he worked for - he's not arguing very well, and using those poor arguments to come to some pretty revolting conclusions.
All of a sudden his iq data is relevant, eh? All I'm saying is your statistics include elections that get little attention. For instance, I only voted for congress on the base of party affiliation. The black voters that bother to show up may do that as well. There's never been an election where black people had the option to vote for a realistic black president. Ever. To deny that they voted for someone they view as like and for them is ridiculous. Laughable. Put yourself in their shoes. Of course they did. Of course.
-
It's a wonderful argument based on nothing concrete and, like I said, you can have it. I just wouldn't expect anyone to be wowed by it. I'm certainly not.
And I don't know what your point about IQ statistics is. I really don't.
-
It's a wonderful argument based on nothing concrete and, like I said, you can have it. I just wouldn't expect anyone to be wowed by it. I'm certainly not.
And I don't know what your point about IQ statistics is. I really don't.
It's a wonderful argument based on nothing concrete and, like I said, you can have it. I just wouldn't expect anyone to be wowed by it. I'm certainly not.
And I don't know what your point about IQ statistics is. I really don't.
You don't want to see. My point is you're pointing your finger at your cherry picked statistics and saying 'this is absolute truth' and then pointing at someone else's statistics and saying 'that's a false, damnable lie'. Live in the real world. Statistics arent the whole story and there isn't enough empirical data to support your assertion that blacks would vote for a white democratic presidential candidate over a black republican one. Sorry, there just isn't. Do you think it matters to this arguement who blacks voted for when their only choices were whites?
-
Haha. I guess I'll have to start living in the real world, where you get to say that blacks only vote on skin color without any evidence, and then deny that all the available evidence suggests that's not true.
Yes, there aren't many instances of black Republicans versus white Democrats. (Somehow this suggests nothing to you about the popularity of black Republicans, but we'll set that aside.) But there is lots of other evidence about what types of issues are important to black voters, how black voters have voted in the past, etc. And all of it suggests that blacks do not view the Republican Party favorably, nor take their positions on the issues that are important to them.
So, if you'd like to cast all of that aside, plus any knowledge of American politics you might have, and believe that blacks vote only on skin color, like I said, what do you want me to do about it?
I find it an odd position to take, especially when you're defending it the way you have. because all you want to be able to say is that blacks don't care about anything but which color their representative is. That's sort of, you know, belittling, don't you think?
Hello! It looks like you're interested in this conversation, but you don't have an account yet.
Getting fed up of having to scroll through the same posts each visit? When you register for an account, you'll always come back to exactly where you were before, and choose to be notified of new replies (either via email, or push notification). You'll also be able to save bookmarks and upvote posts to show your appreciation to other community members.
With your input, this post could be even better 💗
Register Login