Jim Brown Speaks Out On Holmgren/richardson
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1) How many other running backs were drafted top three? Damn few. Not even the immortal Jim Brown. AND we gave up picks on top of it. To show you I'm not biased in that regard- RG III had better be the second coming of Warren Moon, or the Redskins blew it too. I'm talking the Richardson pick with a view as to where current stud RBs were taken. Rice & MJD- second round, Arian Foster UFA. So it goes without saying- Richardson had better be significantly better that those three? Or explain why not. You consider drafting MJD II with the third overall pick good value? I don't.
2) From what I've seen- Richardson lacks 5th gear. I'm going to make an not-so-bold prediction right now. Richard can, and will get run down from behind in the Pros. Sure, he may have The Incredible Hulk's build- but so did Earl Campbell. BTW, I was in favor of drafting Tomlinson & Peterson- I was not in favor of drafting Richardson. I think I have a pretty fair track record of evaluating RB talent.
3) Smith had longevity with some stellar Cowboy teams. As was posited, put Sanders on those same teams, and he's good for 20,000 yards. Put Jim Brown on those teams- with 14 years in the league, and he's good for 30,000.
1: Redraft those years and guess where those backs are taken. top 5 all of them. you also forgot to mention Peterson, a 7th overall pick who only fell because of injury concerns. Every player you mention is a top 10 or 5 pick in their drafts if teams went back and drafted those years today. Where they happened to be drafted has zero to do with anything because if teams knew they were going to perform that well they would have all be drafted very high.
2: Same thing every monday morning QB says. You can't evaluate any better than anyone else on this board. Richardson was clocked at a 4.5 during a game from a stop and run, he will out run plenty of people in the NFL.
3: Give me Smith on this team right now. He will dominate. When it comes down to it, it's only always a players athletic ability but also their "it". Smith had "it". I think Richardson has "it". Brown was a head case who had at least 5 more good years in the tank and through it all away.
i know that was aimed at me and you are wrong. find one post where i said claiborne will be an all-pro.
i said he would solidify our defensive backfield for years to come with him playing across from haden. that was my point all along. a CB and a serious LB would have gone a long way to keep us a top ten defense for years to come.
and yes. defense wins championships.
Yes it was directed at you. And Claiborne can be a huge bust. We could have some how picked Claiborne and Kuechly and been worse with them on the team than better. We don't know. They haven't taken a snap. That is what I am getting at. Don't come and bitch to people about anointing Richardson and Weeden as good future players when they haven't taken a snap when you do the fucking same thing to Claiborne. NONE OF THESE GUYS HAVE TAKEN A SNAP. You don't know anymore than me or the average guy. So stop the fucking bitch fest.
1: Redraft those years and guess where those backs are taken. top 5 all of them. you also forgot to mention Peterson, a 7th overall pick who only fell because of injury concerns. Every player you mention is a top 10 or 5 pick in their drafts if teams went back and drafted those years today. Where they happened to be drafted has zero to do with anything because if teams knew they were going to perform that well they would have all be drafted very high.
Richardson was clocked at a 4.5 during a game from a stop and run, he will out run plenty of people in the NFL.
Woulda, shoulda, didn't. That's because prevailing logic in the NFL is you don't draft a RB that high. Far too many second rounders who have lit it up recently, and not so recently. Corey Dillon, for starters.
Richardson had better be significantly better- not "just as good". 4.5? That's Shaun Alexander speed, he happened to have 5 pretty good years. As soon as he started running 4.6s+, he was toast. Drafted 19th, about the same spot Emmitt Smith got drafted. Sorry, I hit home runs with Tomlinson and Peterson- and I don't know what I"m talking about?
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1: Redraft those years and guess where those backs are taken. top 5 all of them. you also forgot to mention Peterson, a 7th overall pick who only fell because of injury concerns. Every player you mention is a top 10 or 5 pick in their drafts if teams went back and drafted those years today. Where they happened to be drafted has zero to do with anything because if teams knew they were going to perform that well they would have all be drafted very high.
Richardson was clocked at a 4.5 during a game from a stop and run, he will out run plenty of people in the NFL.
Woulda, shoulda, didn't. That's because prevailing logic in the NFL is you don't draft a RB that high. Far too many second rounders who have lit it up recently, and not so recently. Corey Dillon, for starters.
Richardson had better be significantly better- not "just as good". 4.5? That's Shaun Alexander speed, he happened to have 5 pretty good years. As soon as he started running 4.6s+, he was toast. Drafted 19th, about the same spot Emmitt Smith got drafted. Sorry, I hit home runs with Tomlinson and Peterson- and I don't know what I"m talking about?
Woulda, shoulda, didn't. That's because prevailing logic in the NFL is you don't draft a RB that high. Far too many second rounders who have lit it up recently, and not so recently. Corey Dillon, for starters.
Richardson had better be significantly better- not "just as good". 4.5? That's Shaun Alexander speed, he happened to have 5 pretty good years. As soon as he started running 4.6s+, he was toast. Drafted 19th, about the same spot Emmitt Smith got drafted. Sorry, I hit home runs with Tomlinson and Peterson- and I don't know what I"m talking about?
So you thought 2 guys in the past 15 years were going to be good and they were and that make you an expert on picking RB. Not really bub. You and everyone else could see those two were going to be great. But why couldn't you see Foster should have been drafted in the first instead of going un drafted, why couldn't you see that MDJ or Rice were going to be great RB and should have at worst been taken in the top 10 instead of falling all the way to the second? Cause you don't know more than the average fan.
And if those years were re drafted those players would be taken that high, top 5 talent, regardless of the fact that they are RB.
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Woulda, shoulda, didn't. That's because prevailing logic in the NFL is you don't draft a RB that high. Far too many second rounders who have lit it up recently, and not so recently. Corey Dillon, for starters.
Richardson had better be significantly better- not "just as good". 4.5? That's Shaun Alexander speed, he happened to have 5 pretty good years. As soon as he started running 4.6s+, he was toast. Drafted 19th, about the same spot Emmitt Smith got drafted. Sorry, I hit home runs with Tomlinson and Peterson- and I don't know what I"m talking about?
So you thought 2 guys in the past 15 years were going to be good and they were and that make you an expert on picking RB. Not really bub. You and everyone else could see those two were going to be great. But why couldn't you see Foster should have been drafted in the first instead of going un drafted, why couldn't you see that MDJ or Rice were going to be great RB and should have at worst been taken in the top 10 instead of falling all the way to the second? Cause you don't know more than the average fan.
And if those years were re drafted those players would be taken that high, top 5 talent, regardless of the fact that they are RB.
So you thought 2 guys in the past 15 years were going to be good and they were and that make you an expert on picking RB. Not really bub. You and everyone else could see those two were going to be great. But why couldn't you see Foster should have been drafted in the first instead of going un drafted, why couldn't you see that MDJ or Rice were going to be great RB and should have at worst been taken in the top 10 instead of falling all the way to the second? Cause you don't know more than the average fan.
And if those years were re drafted those players would be taken that high, top 5 talent, regardless of the fact that they are RB.
If, if, if, if. We'll just have to agree to disagree. You see something special in Richardson- I don't (other than his field vision and cutting ability).
Running backs get taken lower now for a reason- the position is devalued in the pass happy NFL. And you can play your "what if" game till the cows come home, and it doesn't matter. It would be just as easy for me to say with 20\20 hindsight Tom Brady should have been the first overall pick.
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Can we at least all agree that the offense will now be watchable. Evaluating talent isn't an exact science and no one knows who'll be the next great one. We can argue about the draft all we want but we really can judge it for another couple years.
All I know is that by all appearances our team has improved. Problem is other teams have too. We have a huge talent gap on this division. We're all passionate about this team and some of us are just bitter about the past decade of shit football.
This is a great board. No more needing to insult each other. Lets save it for the fans of other teams and the newbies.
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The insults are why I come here...
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The insults are why I come here...
The insults are why I come here...
Me too, you big sissy.
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The insults are why I come here...
Me too, you big sissy.
Me too, you big sissy.
Yeah you fag.
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You guys are just a couple of typical steeler-lovin' Pennsylvania vagina stains. Browns rule 2012!
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You guys are just a couple of typical steeler-lovin' Pennsylvania vagina stains. Browns rule 2012!
You guys are just a couple of typical steeler-lovin' Pennsylvania vagina stains. Browns rule 2012!
Ur a bungle fan lolz
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So you thought 2 guys in the past 15 years were going to be good and they were and that make you an expert on picking RB. Not really bub. You and everyone else could see those two were going to be great. But why couldn't you see Foster should have been drafted in the first instead of going un drafted, why couldn't you see that MDJ or Rice were going to be great RB and should have at worst been taken in the top 10 instead of falling all the way to the second? Cause you don't know more than the average fan.
And if those years were re drafted those players would be taken that high, top 5 talent, regardless of the fact that they are RB.
If, if, if, if. We'll just have to agree to disagree. You see something special in Richardson- I don't (other than his field vision and cutting ability).
Running backs get taken lower now for a reason- the position is devalued in the pass happy NFL. And you can play your "what if" game till the cows come home, and it doesn't matter. It would be just as easy for me to say with 20\20 hindsight Tom Brady should have been the first overall pick.
If, if, if, if. We'll just have to agree to disagree. You see something special in Richardson- I don't (other than his field vision and cutting ability).
Running backs get taken lower now for a reason- the position is devalued in the pass happy NFL. And you can play your "what if" game till the cows come home, and it doesn't matter. It would be just as easy for me to say with 20\20 hindsight Tom Brady should have been the first overall pick.
True but if people are saying Richardson should be as good if not better than Rice and they are saying he is the best since AP then I see why the FO took him in the top 5. I see it you don't but at least we can agree why he was taken that high.
Can we at least all agree that the offense will now be watchable. Evaluating talent isn't an exact science and no one knows who'll be the next great one. We can argue about the draft all we want but we really can judge it for another couple years.
All I know is that by all appearances our team has improved. Problem is other teams have too. We have a huge talent gap on this division. We're all passionate about this team and some of us are just bitter about the past decade of shit football.
This is a great board. No more needing to insult each other. Lets save it for the fans of other teams and the newbies.
Unless it's Miktoxic then I agree
Ruining threads since 1897. -
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If, if, if, if. We'll just have to agree to disagree. You see something special in Richardson- I don't (other than his field vision and cutting ability).
Running backs get taken lower now for a reason- the position is devalued in the pass happy NFL. And you can play your "what if" game till the cows come home, and it doesn't matter. It would be just as easy for me to say with 20\20 hindsight Tom Brady should have been the first overall pick.
True but if people are saying Richardson should be as good if not better than Rice and they are saying he is the best since AP then I see why the FO took him in the top 5. I see it you don't but at least we can agree why he was taken that high.
Can we at least all agree that the offense will now be watchable. Evaluating talent isn't an exact science and no one knows who'll be the next great one. We can argue about the draft all we want but we really can judge it for another couple years.
All I know is that by all appearances our team has improved. Problem is other teams have too. We have a huge talent gap on this division. We're all passionate about this team and some of us are just bitter about the past decade of shit football.
This is a great board. No more needing to insult each other. Lets save it for the fans of other teams and the newbies.
Unless it's Miktoxic then I agree
Unless it's Miktoxic then I agree
oh no no no
you know i love you harryape.
hell i even loved ghoulie before he now became the good ghoulie.
i don't care what anyone says or does just as long as the browns win. doesn't mean i have to agree with the way they go about it though.
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Let's look at it another way - about Richardson.
What does he LACK?
He HAS excellent field vision, speed, agility,love for the game, character, power, rarely EVER fumbles,
excellent coordination and balance and very, very quick feet..... he's frickin SMART, he's powerfully built, loves contact, catches out of the backfield excellently...
Let me repeat AGILITY. Watching him go through agility drills is like watching a blue chippie cb go through the drills.
so, what are we missing? What's he's missing?
If nothin, that makes him a hell of a lot more special than ordinary.
Even more so, than if the Browns hadn't drafted a RT.
Too much bickering about when he was drafted. In this draft this year - he was THE MAN to pick for the Browns.
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I'm not fortunate enough to say I saw Jim Brown play (not even close) but the man was a dominant running back. However, it couldn't be more obvious that since the browns "slighted" him a few years ago he's nothing but a bitter old man. Granted, the browns should give him legend status but there's no excuse for this. You guys may think he's just giving his opinion, but I don't see it that way at all. It's clear he came out and said that because he wanted to knock the browns and the front office which is pathetic to me anyway. I agree with everyone else on here, at this point Jim should just shut his mouth and respect the team that allowed him to be successful. I respect him as a player but have 0 respect for the guy as a person.
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Let's look at it another way - about Richardson.
What does he LACK?
He HAS excellent field vision, speed, agility,love for the game, character, power, rarely EVER fumbles,
excellent coordination and balance and very, very quick feet..... he's frickin SMART, he's powerfully built, loves contact, catches out of the backfield excellently...
Let me repeat AGILITY. Watching him go through agility drills is like watching a blue chippie cb go through the drills.
so, what are we missing? What's he's missing?
If nothin, that makes him a hell of a lot more special than ordinary.
Even more so, than if the Browns hadn't drafted a RT.
Too much bickering about when he was drafted. In this draft this year - he was THE MAN to pick for the Browns.
Let's look at it another way - about Richardson.
What does he LACK?
He HAS excellent field vision, speed, agility,love for the game, character, power, rarely EVER fumbles,
excellent coordination and balance and very, very quick feet..... he's frickin SMART, he's powerfully built, loves contact, catches out of the backfield excellently...
Let me repeat AGILITY. Watching him go through agility drills is like watching a blue chippie cb go through the drills.
so, what are we missing? What's he's missing?
If nothin, that makes him a hell of a lot more special than ordinary.
Even more so, than if the Browns hadn't drafted a RT.
Too much bickering about when he was drafted. In this draft this year - he was THE MAN to pick for the Browns.
OK, since you asked Cal- at least to me Richardson doesn't have the 5th gear of a Tomlinson or Peterson. That may be nit-picking. 4.5 speed isn't exceptional for a running back- there's more than a few LBs who can clock that speed. If you want exceptional, Bo Jackson ran a 4.2 the other two guys were in the low 4.4s, high 4.3s. That's the difference between being caught from behind- or not.
Of course I hope Trent's everything he's cracked up to be- and more. -
I cant wait until he runs over someone for a td, and then we all will forget what position he was drafted.
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I cant wait until he runs over someone for a td, and then we all will forget what position he was drafted.
I cant wait until he runs over someone for a td, and then we all will forget what position he was drafted.
Or until he gets absolutely trucked by a LB and then starts a whole new line of bickering.
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I cant wait until he runs over someone for a td, and then we all will forget what position he was drafted.
Or until he gets absolutely trucked by a LB and then starts a whole new line of bickering.
Or until he gets absolutely trucked by a LB and then starts a whole new line of bickering.
Yes or that!
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Let's look at it another way - about Richardson.
What does he LACK?
He HAS excellent field vision, speed, agility,love for the game, character, power, rarely EVER fumbles,
excellent coordination and balance and very, very quick feet..... he's frickin SMART, he's powerfully built, loves contact, catches out of the backfield excellently...
Let me repeat AGILITY. Watching him go through agility drills is like watching a blue chippie cb go through the drills.
so, what are we missing? What's he's missing?
If nothin, that makes him a hell of a lot more special than ordinary.
Even more so, than if the Browns hadn't drafted a RT.
Too much bickering about when he was drafted. In this draft this year - he was THE MAN to pick for the Browns.
OK, since you asked Cal- at least to me Richardson doesn't have the 5th gear of a Tomlinson or Peterson. That may be nit-picking. 4.5 speed isn't exceptional for a running back- there's more than a few LBs who can clock that speed. If you want exceptional, Bo Jackson ran a 4.2 the other two guys were in the low 4.4s, high 4.3s. That's the difference between being caught from behind- or not.
Of course I hope Trent's everything he's cracked up to be- and more.OK, since you asked Cal- at least to me Richardson doesn't have the 5th gear of a Tomlinson or Richardson. That may be nit-picking. 4.5 speed isn't exceptional for a running back- there's more than a few LBs who can clock that speed. If you want exceptional, Bo Jackson ran a 4.2 the other two guys were in the low 4.4s, high 4.3s. That's the difference between being caught from behind- or not.
Of course I hope Trent's everything he's cracked up to be- and more....so, Richardson is .2-.3 seconds slower than the fastest runningback in the league? So what, if the defenders ever catch up to him they still have to TRY and tackle him... and that's where it gets interesting!!!
The secret of getting ahead is getting started. The secret of getting started is breaking your complex overwhelming tasks into small manageable tasks, and then starting on the first one. -Mark Twain- "It's not the size of the dog in the fight, it's the size of the fight in the dog." -Mark Twain-
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