Revisionist History
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Yes, it is better to have that "ultimate answer"....and eventually all leagues got around to doing just that. But, no, I disagree that you can discount a championship earned just because there was another league in place.
The on field performances also proved the worth of these other leagues. Obviously the Browns were the best team of all when they joined the NFL. The Jets and Chiefs showed within a couple of years that the AFL was every bit as good as anyone in the NFL except for a team coach by Vince Lombardi. The WHA Edmonton Oilers came in and dominated the NHL.
In terms of hockey, it is played around the world with many different championships depending on the continent. In North America the definitive award is the Stanley Cup, which originated with the NHL, not the WHA. While there may be some fans in Edmonton that relish their WHA award, unless you have the Stanley Cup in hockey who really gives a crap?
There was the NFL Europe for a time and does anybody really care about who won that 6 or 8 team league? There's awards for every type of league, from T-Shirt to the pro's. The Browns victories of stone age are not really relevant, to modern football. Like NFL Europe they were acquired in 6 to 8 team leagues. The accomplishment is not as impressive as winning a Super Bowl in a 32 team league. However, a modern super bowl is comparable to all previous Lombardi winners when the league had less teams, ala the Stanley Cup. When the Browns won, there were competing leagues with complimentary champions. At best your award is similar to an AFC/NFC division championship. More realistically, outside of Cleveland your victory is more comparable to the NFL Europe's World Cup. Seriously, ask the fans of other teams (besides Pittsburgh, before you run them off) if they are impressed by the Browns early championships.
Endymion said:
In terms of hockey, it is played around the world with many different championships depending on the continent. In North America the definitive award is the Stanley Cup, which originated with the NHL, not the WHA. While there may be some fans in Edmonton that relish their WHA award, unless you have the Stanley Cup in hockey who really gives a crap?
If you read that article that was linked to, the Stanley Cup actually began as an award for the best amateur team. It was awarded for about 40 years before it became an exclusive NHL award. And sure, the Stanley Cup was just that>>>an exclusive NHL property. So no, it wasn't going to be awarded to the WHA winner. But the WHA was viable enough to force a merger with the NHL, so by my reckoning....and I am only following a path set by others, the WHA titles still get counted.
There was the NFL Europe for a time and does anybody really care about who won that 6 or 8 team league?
NFL Europe was a minor league feeder league for the NFL, so that is not an apt analogy. he International League and the American Association don't compete with the AL and NL, they feed into them.
There's awards for every type of league, from T-Shirt to the pro's. The Browns victories of stone age are not really relevant, to modern football. Like NFL Europe they were acquired in 6 to 8 team leagues.
The Browns victories were every bit as relevent as those acquired in the NFL at the time. And the AAFC had as many or more teams than the NFL at the time. And they had better teams, more attendance, and many better players.
The accomplishment is not as impressive as winning a Super Bowl in a 32 team league.
Again, you would then have to discount every title won in every league in history if you do that. The Yankees won World Series in a much smaller"league". The NHL only had 6 teams for years. Do those titles disappear? The NFL was only an 8-10 team league. Do those titles disappear? The NBA only had like 10 teams when the Celtics were winning everything. Do those disappear?
NO, clearly not. Remember also...that it may have in fact been harder to win in a smaller league with only 2 playoff participants than in a bigger league with 12 playoff participants.
If playoff participation had not been expanded certain teams would never even have had a chance to compete for the title, like the 2005 Steelers, the 2010 Packers, the 2000 Ravens,a nd some others. You can't win if you don't play. In a couple of years back then, you had teams go 12-2 and never got to see the playoffs because another team in their division went 13-1.
However, a modern super bowl is comparable to all previous Lombardi winners when the league had less teams, ala the Stanley Cup. When the Browns won, there were competing leagues with complimentary champions. At best your award is similar to an AFC/NFC division championship. More realistically, outside of Cleveland your victory is more comparable to the NFL Europe's World Cup. Seriously, ask the fans of other teams (besides Pittsburgh, before you run them off) if they are impressed by the Browns early championships.
Again, I don't think you have to do any comparing of ages. It is against their contemporaries that teams should be compared.
By your reckoning, the entire 1970s Steelers dynasty can be discounted, because there is no way in hell they could ever compete in today's NFL. FYI, the entire setup of the NFL, from the number of teams, to the playoff system, to the divisional setup is completely different from the 1970s....as different as the 70s were from the 40s. The only thing is we still call the championship The Super Bowl.
The only difference here is that the Browns were winning championships. The Steelers weren't.
Again, by your reckoning it isn't the Browns who would be most discounted.....it would be the Packers who you now would claim have no right to assert that they have won 13 championships. Trust me, Packer fans will try to kick your teeth in if you tell them all their titles are null and void. And Bears fans. You would grant them a single title instead of the 9 they earned. And the Titans/Oilers, Bills, Chargers, Eagles, Lions, etc. You would tell them that their teams never won a single title. Again, I think you might need a mouth protector if you go around saying that.
Let's put it this way: ALL of the authoritative entities on this subject disagree with your attempt to nullify history. PFR, the HOF, Sporting News, Elias, etc. etc. etc. all still maintain the lists as I have reported them. Hell, that is where I got my list. Ask them to change their records to agree with you, and I won't have a source to pull this data from.
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In terms of hockey, it is played around the world with many different championships depending on the continent. In North America the definitive award is the Stanley Cup, which originated with the NHL, not the WHA. While there may be some fans in Edmonton that relish their WHA award, unless you have the Stanley Cup in hockey who really gives a crap?
A couple of notes here: almost all of the best hockey players from around the world come to play in the NHL. While there are other leagues, the NHL is the undisputed "major" league in the world of Hockey. It is like the NBA, while there may be some decent Euro Leagues, you ain't shit unless you play in the NBA.
Also, the Oilers didn't win in the WHA, but they built up the components of their dynasty while in the WHA. The Quebec Nordiques, nka Colorado Avalanche and the Winnipeg Jets first franchise, nka Phoenix Coyotes won titles in that league. As did the New England/Hartford Whalers...nka Carolina Hurricane.
And that is the other component. These are now "Big 4 League teams". I count any title ever won by a current Big 4 team. The Cleveland Browns are an NFL team, right? Their 8 titles 4 and 4, get counted. The San Diego Chargers are an NFL team, right? Their AFL title get counted. The same with the New York Nets, the Indiana Pacers of the ABA.
And, yes, I count titles won in these league by defunct teams. This includes Canton Bulldogs, Providence Steamroller, Frankford Yellow Jacket, Akron Pro titles. It includes Pittsburgh Piper, Kentucky Colonel, Oakland Oaks and Utah Stars titles, and Houston Aeros.
Some may ask: why include these defunct franchises? Why not? In reality, what is the difference between one of these franchises and a team that long ago changed names and cities?
I mean, the Washington Senators won the 1924 World Series. Yet that "franchise" long ago moved and became the Minnesota Twins. Is there really any more relevance to including a Washington Senators title while excluding a Pittsburgh Piper team?
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Say the NFL decided when the current CBA is up that enough is enough. They are getting sued by every former player for concussions and the NFLPA is demanding way too much. So in 2020 the NFL just ends. The public will still want football, and eventually a new league will form, we'll call it WFL (World Football League). The WFL will have less teams than the NFL and will struggle for some time attracting an audience. Assume that eventually catches on, and reclaims the popularity the NFL once had about 10-15 years down the road. They have a championship game called the "Madden Bowl" and a trophy called the EA Sports Golden Pigskin (GP).
At first everyone will be like, this GP means nothing the Lombardi Trophy (LT) was the "real" item of value. Eventually, as the WFL becomes more and more popular, the historical LT will diminish in value and glory (that it holds now) and the GP will replace it. Like the LT, the GP will be the penultimate goal/prize in professional football. Super Bowls of yore will fad to distant memory. They will become an interesting footnote for a few franchises. As long as the Madden Bowl is played, the GP will increase in value and importance. It's what's of value now, even though there was only one definitive winner in the predecessor league.
The Browns victories of yore were a foundation for the leagues of the present, but those victories are not of the same value as a Super Bowl victory. The Browns also played and won at a time of competing leagues, further diminishing the achievement. Further, the leagues the Brown's played in were absorbed the current league, aka the NFL. While you may not like the perception, the perception is the surviving league was more important than the league that died, even if the league that died had "better" teams or played "better" football.
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Say the NFL decided when the current CBA is up that enough is enough. They are getting sued by every former player for concussions and the NFLPA is demanding way too much. So in 2020 the NFL just ends. The public will still want football, and eventually a new league will form, we'll call it WFL (World Football League). The WFL will have less teams than the NFL and will struggle for some time attracting an audience. Assume that eventually catches on, and reclaims the popularity the NFL once had about 10-15 years down the road. They have a championship game called the "Madden Bowl" and a trophy called the EA Sports Golden Pigskin (GP).
At first everyone will be like, this GP means nothing the Lombardi Trophy (LT) was the "real" item of value. Eventually, as the WFL becomes more and more popular, the historical LT will diminish in value and glory (that it holds now) and the GP will replace it. Like the LT, the GP will be the penultimate goal/prize in professional football. Super Bowls of yore will fad to distant memory. They will become an interesting footnote for a few franchises. As long as the Madden Bowl is played, the GP will increase in value and importance. It's what's of value now, even though there was only one definitive winner in the predecessor league.
The Browns victories of yore were a foundation for the leagues of the present, but those victories are not of the same value as a Super Bowl victory. The Browns also played and won at a time of competing leagues, further diminishing the achievement. Further, the leagues the Brown's played in were absorbed the current league, aka the NFL. While you may not like the perception, the perception is the surviving league was more important than the league that died, even if the league that died had "better" teams or played "better" football.
Endymion said:
Say the NFL decided when the current CBA is up that enough is enough. They are getting sued by every former player for concussions and the NFLPA is demanding way too much. So in 2020 the NFL just ends. The public will still want football, and eventually a new league will form, we'll call it WFL (World Football League). The WFL will have less teams than the NFL and will struggle for some time attracting an audience. Assume that eventually catches on, and reclaims the popularity the NFL once had about 10-15 years down the road. They have a championship game called the "Madden Bowl" and a trophy called the EA Sports Golden Pigskin (GP).
At first everyone will be like, this GP means nothing the Lombardi Trophy (LT) was the "real" item of value. Eventually, as the WFL becomes more and more popular, the historical LT will diminish in value and glory (that it holds now) and the GP will replace it. Like the LT, the GP will be the penultimate goal/prize in professional football. Super Bowls of yore will fad to distant memory. They will become an interesting footnote for a few franchises. As long as the Madden Bowl is played, the GP will increase in value and importance. It's what's of value now, even though there was only one definitive winner in the predecessor league.
The Browns victories of yore were a foundation for the leagues of the present, but those victories are not of the same value as a Super Bowl victory. The Browns also played and won at a time of competing leagues, further diminishing the achievement. Further, the leagues the Brown's played in were absorbed the current league, aka the NFL. While you may not like the perception, the perception is the surviving league was more important than the league that died, even if the league that died had "better" teams or played "better" football.
Well, lets put it this way: You apparently are a football creationist. You believe the league was created out of the ether at a certain recent point in time that myth maker claim to be the origin. Your Adam was apparently Vince Lombardi, your Eve Chuck Noll.
I am a football evolutionist. I believe that football developed over a much longer period of time. There was life before Adam/Lombardi even if you fundamentalists want to ignore all the scientific evidence. Or, perhaps I am 4th dimensional, like the Shrike in the books you are named after. I am the future come to the past, and I am the past come to the future.
Whatever I am, be afraid, be very afraid :ph34r:
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Say the NFL decided when the current CBA is up that enough is enough. They are getting sued by every former player for concussions and the NFLPA is demanding way too much. So in 2020 the NFL just ends. The public will still want football, and eventually a new league will form, we'll call it WFL (World Football League). The WFL will have less teams than the NFL and will struggle for some time attracting an audience. Assume that eventually catches on, and reclaims the popularity the NFL once had about 10-15 years down the road. They have a championship game called the "Madden Bowl" and a trophy called the EA Sports Golden Pigskin (GP).
At first everyone will be like, this GP means nothing the Lombardi Trophy (LT) was the "real" item of value. Eventually, as the WFL becomes more and more popular, the historical LT will diminish in value and glory (that it holds now) and the GP will replace it. Like the LT, the GP will be the penultimate goal/prize in professional football. Super Bowls of yore will fad to distant memory. They will become an interesting footnote for a few franchises. As long as the Madden Bowl is played, the GP will increase in value and importance. It's what's of value now, even though there was only one definitive winner in the predecessor league.
The Browns victories of yore were a foundation for the leagues of the present, but those victories are not of the same value as a Super Bowl victory. The Browns also played and won at a time of competing leagues, further diminishing the achievement. Further, the leagues the Brown's played in were absorbed the current league, aka the NFL. While you may not like the perception, the perception is the surviving league was more important than the league that died, even if the league that died had "better" teams or played "better" football.
Endymion said:
Say the NFL decided when the current CBA is up that enough is enough. They are getting sued by every former player for concussions and the NFLPA is demanding way too much. So in 2020 the NFL just ends. The public will still want football, and eventually a new league will form, we'll call it WFL (World Football League). The WFL will have less teams than the NFL and will struggle for some time attracting an audience. Assume that eventually catches on, and reclaims the popularity the NFL once had about 10-15 years down the road. They have a championship game called the "Madden Bowl" and a trophy called the EA Sports Golden Pigskin (GP).
At first everyone will be like, this GP means nothing the Lombardi Trophy (LT) was the "real" item of value. Eventually, as the WFL becomes more and more popular, the historical LT will diminish in value and glory (that it holds now) and the GP will replace it. Like the LT, the GP will be the penultimate goal/prize in professional football. Super Bowls of yore will fad to distant memory. They will become an interesting footnote for a few franchises. As long as the Madden Bowl is played, the GP will increase in value and importance. It's what's of value now, even though there was only one definitive winner in the predecessor league.
The Browns victories of yore were a foundation for the leagues of the present, but those victories are not of the same value as a Super Bowl victory. The Browns also played and won at a time of competing leagues, further diminishing the achievement. Further, the leagues the Brown's played in were absorbed the current league, aka the NFL. While you may not like the perception, the perception is the surviving league was more important than the league that died, even if the league that died had "better" teams or played "better" football.
Wouldn't fewer teams created out of the same available player pool naturally create teams with a higher overall skill level at any time?
Soccer, Futball, Fusball, Futsal, Foosball, Europe ... Mods are all gay. -
I wouldn't say they have no meaning, but one has to be 55 years old to have any real recall of our last championship, so yeah, it's time to start winning.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. -
@king-ghoolie-lives said:
In 1976, calling Steeler fans was fiar game. In 2012? After 6 super bowl wins in THIRTY SIX YYEARS?
Thirty Six Years of competitive, SB winning, AFC winning, Afc North Winning, Kicking the shit out of the Browns?
Sorry, but you can hate the Steelers all you want, but they aren't bandwagon fans. They now have a very long, and rich heritage of winning. The overtook our head-to-head advantage, embarassingly with sweep after sweep after sweep.
As far as the Browns ancient championships go? They don't count and they don't mean shit. They have no modern day monetary, marketing or fan-appeal purpose. Only die hard fans know or care about this shit.
It is a sorry fucking shithole world if something only has value if it has current marketing appeal. Who in fucking hell ever said that something has to have current marketing appeal.
Besides that....I think you are completly wrong. I saw on a recent TV show where a program from the 1932 Championship game was valued at about $10,000.00. More than anything comparable from any Super Bowl.
So much for that theory of yours.
You can't compare the old teams wins with the events of JFK or MLK and the like. Those events are clear as a bell,and have impact to many people, of all ages. Most pleople can tell you how JFK and MLK was and what happened to them.
Ask people about Paul Brown, Lavelli, Motley, and 95% of America will look at you like you are incoherent.
I don't think so. The comparable political thing, since you brought it up is to ask them about Washington, Jefferson, Lincoln, and Roosevelt.
And just because young dumbasses don't know something about history doesn't mean history isn't important.
How many people in America have never heard of Louisbourg or The Plains of Abraham? Probably 95%.....yet this same 95% all speak English, right? Yet, without those historical events, it is quite probable that we here in the State of Ohio...and in Tennessee and in the entire Great Lakes and Western US would be speaking French right now.
It is not our mandate to cowtow to those at the the lowest intellectual or educational level.
I am not going to do it even if, apparently, you choose to.
In the modern Era of football, the era WE LIVE IN..............The Browns franchise has been used to wipe shit out of the asses of Steeler fans, players and management. That's just how it is.
Yes, and at one time Brittania ruled the waves. That didn't mean they would forever.
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I wouldn't say they have no meaning, but one has to be 55 years old to have any real recall of our last championship, so yeah, it's time to start winning.
I wouldn't say they have no meaning, but one has to be 55 years old to have any real recall of our last championship, so yeah, it's time to start winning.
That is why I called this thread "Revisionist History".....which is really a misnomer. It should actually be "Truncated History" as I simply went back to that point in time where many of about that age do remember.
And Ghoolie brings up the fact that the assassinations of JFK and MLK are things deepseated in our memory. Sure, to us.
But not to 75% of the patrons on this board. Those are as much ancient history to them as the murders of McKinley and Garfield are to us.
Wanna bet how many could get the answer if I asked the trivia question: who killed McKinley and Garfield. 1 in 10 maybe?
Just because we don't remember the assassinations of Garfield and McKinley doesn't mean they didn't happen. Just because the 75% don't remember the assassinations of JFK and MLK don't mean they didn't happen.
Every once in a while someone has to educate the younger folk of what happened in the past. That is simply what I do.
I am not sure why there is such a Brouhaha over the fact that I relate a little bit of factual history on here. I mean, in the words of Jack Nicholson is there some reason that some "can't handle the truth"?
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The only Championships that mean anything to me are the ones that I, as a fan, would be able to experience and enjoy.
I don't get a ring or anything else when/if a Cleveland team wins a Championship. The only enjoyment of a Championship, for a team I follow, would be watching the team achieve it.
I was born in 1965. I have never been able to celebrate a Cleveland Championship. I guess I can taunt other teams fans with what happened prior to me being born, but overall, I would rather have watched the Browns win last years Super Bowl, than brag about all the Championships that happened in the 50's and 60's.
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The only Championships that mean anything to me are the ones that I, as a fan, would be able to experience and enjoy.
I don't get a ring or anything else when/if a Cleveland team wins a Championship. The only enjoyment of a Championship, for a team I follow, would be watching the team achieve it.
I was born in 1965. I have never been able to celebrate a Cleveland Championship. I guess I can taunt other teams fans with what happened prior to me being born, but overall, I would rather have watched the Browns win last years Super Bowl, than brag about all the Championships that happened in the 50's and 60's.
The Soldier said:
The only Championships that mean anything to me are the ones that I, as a fan, would be able to experience and enjoy.
I don't get a ring or anything else when/if a Cleveland team wins a Championship. The only enjoyment of a Championship, for a team I follow, would be watching the team achieve it.
I was born in 1965. I have never been able to celebrate a Cleveland Championship. I guess I can taunt other teams fans with what happened prior to me being born, but overall, I would rather have watched the Browns win last years Super Bowl, than brag about all the Championships that happened in the 50's and 60's.
Quite frankly my dear, who gives a damn what you are able to experience and enjoy. Just because something didn't happen during your meager existance doesn't mean it didn't happen...and it certainly doesn't mean that it doesn't "mean anything". See my next post. We all would like to have seen more victories here....but we haven't.
Besides, if you note, in my thread I list the statistics of all 48 major league markets, and all 124 major league franchises. Yet no one seems to get all stupid about the hundreds of old titles won by other towns or teams. Only about the ones Cleveland won. Why would some of y'all get your panties in a bunch and try to discount say the Canton Bulldogs titles won in the 20s when the New York Yankees were winning baseball titles those same years, and no one wants to discount them.
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Some of you don't know how close you were to giving the greetings "Bon Matin" or Ca va" today instead of saying "Good Morning" or "How's it going".......this illustrates how close you were to doing just that:
Everything west of the Appalachians including Cleveland/Pittsburgh/Detroit/Cincinatti/Chicago etc. etc. could have been talking French and playing curling instead of football if the English had not won the Seven Years War aka French and Indian War.
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@king-ghoolie-lives said:
In 1976, calling Steeler fans was fiar game. In 2012? After 6 super bowl wins in THIRTY SIX YYEARS?
Thirty Six Years of competitive, SB winning, AFC winning, Afc North Winning, Kicking the shit out of the Browns?
Sorry, but you can hate the Steelers all you want, but they aren't bandwagon fans. They now have a very long, and rich heritage of winning. The overtook our head-to-head advantage, embarassingly with sweep after sweep after sweep.
As far as the Browns ancient championships go? They don't count and they don't mean shit. They have no modern day monetary, marketing or fan-appeal purpose. Only die hard fans know or care about this shit.
You can't compare the old teams wins with the events of JFK or MLK and the like. Those events are clear as a bell,and have impact to many people, of all ages. Most pleople can tell you how JFK and MLK was and what happened to them.
Ask people about Paul Brown, Lavelli, Motley, and 95% of America will look at you like you are incoherent.
In the modern Era of football, the era WE LIVE IN..............The Browns franchise has been used to wipe shit out of the asses of Steeler fans, players and management. That's just how it is.
yes folks, come one come all....the real ghoulie has once again been caged and is showing his true colors. the old "oh i love the browns and HandH are great and we are finally going to kick the steeler's asses this year"..........HA! whoever bought into that shit still thinks rich4eagle and dickmellon and ghoulie are different entities.
you can be funny, articulate and very knowledgeable at times on the forum but you can't escape the true fact that if it became a 'draw straws' game of browns/steelers you'd always root for the steelers.
you embarrass yourself sometimes my friend. shameful.
you really care what the younger generation thinks about the 'written in stone' titles the browns won before the superbowl? if you do go put on your Tiny Canadian Pussy Douche cd and jam out going to work at old navy.
better yet fuck them and fuck you.
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The only Championships that mean anything to me are the ones that I, as a fan, would be able to experience and enjoy.
I don't get a ring or anything else when/if a Cleveland team wins a Championship. The only enjoyment of a Championship, for a team I follow, would be watching the team achieve it.
I was born in 1965. I have never been able to celebrate a Cleveland Championship. I guess I can taunt other teams fans with what happened prior to me being born, but overall, I would rather have watched the Browns win last years Super Bowl, than brag about all the Championships that happened in the 50's and 60's.
The Soldier said:
The only Championships that mean anything to me are the ones that I, as a fan, would be able to experience and enjoy.
I was born in 1965. I have never been able to celebrate a Cleveland Championship. I guess I can taunt other teams fans with what happened prior to me being born, but overall, I would rather have watched the Browns win last years Super Bowl, than brag about all the Championships that happened in the 50's and 60's.
but wear a vintage jim brown jersey to your sorority party and see if all your little girlfriends and tough gals who listen to pitbull or usher wouldn't be all over your swollen pussy.
as was said before: who gives a shit that you weren't around when you could brag about the browns' dynasty of championships.
what's the matter, can't read a book?
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@king-ghoolie-lives said:
In 1976, calling Steeler fans was fiar game. In 2012? After 6 super bowl wins in THIRTY SIX YYEARS?
Thirty Six Years of competitive, SB winning, AFC winning, Afc North Winning, Kicking the shit out of the Browns?
Sorry, but you can hate the Steelers all you want, but they aren't bandwagon fans. They now have a very long, and rich heritage of winning. The overtook our head-to-head advantage, embarassingly with sweep after sweep after sweep.
As far as the Browns ancient championships go? They don't count and they don't mean shit. They have no modern day monetary, marketing or fan-appeal purpose. Only die hard fans know or care about this shit.
You can't compare the old teams wins with the events of JFK or MLK and the like. Those events are clear as a bell,and have impact to many people, of all ages. Most pleople can tell you how JFK and MLK was and what happened to them.
Ask people about Paul Brown, Lavelli, Motley, and 95% of America will look at you like you are incoherent.
In the modern Era of football, the era WE LIVE IN..............The Browns franchise has been used to wipe shit out of the asses of Steeler fans, players and management. That's just how it is.
yes folks, come one come all....the real ghoulie has once again been caged and is showing his true colors. the old "oh i love the browns and HandH are great and we are finally going to kick the steeler's asses this year"..........HA! whoever bought into that shit still thinks rich4eagle and dickmellon and ghoulie are different entities.
you can be funny, articulate and very knowledgeable at times on the forum but you can't escape the true fact that if it became a 'draw straws' game of browns/steelers you'd always root for the steelers.
you embarrass yourself sometimes my friend. shameful.
you really care what the younger generation thinks about the 'written in stone' titles the browns won before the superbowl? if you do go put on your Tiny Canadian Pussy Douche cd and jam out going to work at old navy.
better yet fuck them and fuck you.
yes folks, come one come all....the real ghoulie has once again been caged and is showing his true colors. the old "oh i love the browns and HandH are great and we are finally going to kick the steeler's asses this year"..........HA! whoever bought into that shit still thinks rich4eagle and dickmellon and ghoulie are different entities.
you can be funny, articulate and very knowledgeable at times on the forum but you can't escape the true fact that if it became a 'draw straws' game of browns/steelers you'd always root for the steelers.
you embarrass yourself sometimes my friend. shameful.
you really care what the younger generation thinks about the 'written in stone' titles the browns won before the superbowl? if you do go put on your Tiny Canadian Pussy Douche cd and jam out going to work at old navy.
better yet fuck them and fuck you.
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America the definitive award is the Stanley Cup, which originated with the NHL.
Just to clarify this again. The Stanley Cup did not originate with the NHL. It was being awarded 30 years before the NHL ever existed.
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I love this board. EVERYTHING here is about the Steelers.
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as we love your steeler forum when we have shots of your mom like this:
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I love this board. EVERYTHING here is about the Steelers.
I love this board. EVERYTHING here is about the Steelers.
No, actually, if the Steelers are mentioned it is because it is there fans who come on here obsessing about the Browns.
I can relate the entire history of 10 different leagues, 50 some different North American Sports markets, 150 different sports franchises.....and the only thing yinz wants to do is to complain about the listings contained within that entire compendium of data that deal with the Browns/NEOhio football history.
The myopia and paranoia are palpable.
Never fear....just because you are myopic and paranoid does not mean that people don't hate you and aren't after you.
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Endymion said:
Say the NFL decided when the current CBA is up that enough is enough. They are getting sued by every former player for concussions and the NFLPA is demanding way too much. So in 2020 the NFL just ends. The public will still want football, and eventually a new league will form, we'll call it WFL (World Football League). The WFL will have less teams than the NFL and will struggle for some time attracting an audience. Assume that eventually catches on, and reclaims the popularity the NFL once had about 10-15 years down the road. They have a championship game called the "Madden Bowl" and a trophy called the EA Sports Golden Pigskin (GP).
At first everyone will be like, this GP means nothing the Lombardi Trophy (LT) was the "real" item of value. Eventually, as the WFL becomes more and more popular, the historical LT will diminish in value and glory (that it holds now) and the GP will replace it. Like the LT, the GP will be the penultimate goal/prize in professional football. Super Bowls of yore will fad to distant memory. They will become an interesting footnote for a few franchises. As long as the Madden Bowl is played, the GP will increase in value and importance. It's what's of value now, even though there was only one definitive winner in the predecessor league.
The Browns victories of yore were a foundation for the leagues of the present, but those victories are not of the same value as a Super Bowl victory. The Browns also played and won at a time of competing leagues, further diminishing the achievement. Further, the leagues the Brown's played in were absorbed the current league, aka the NFL. While you may not like the perception, the perception is the surviving league was more important than the league that died, even if the league that died had "better" teams or played "better" football.
Wouldn't fewer teams created out of the same available player pool naturally create teams with a higher overall skill level at any time?
Wouldn't fewer teams created out of the same available player pool naturally create teams with a higher overall skill level at any time?
No, actually it wouldn't. If the NFL dissolved and a new league started, the new league would have less cash. The new league would not be a proven commodity so networks would invest less money into the broadcasts (see XFL). With less money, will come less interest from the most talented players (especially those who had big contracts in the now defunct league). Some people are born to play football, that's really all they can do. Those people will work for less and many of those types of players are not star calibre.
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