Josh Gordon
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no. it's an opinion. my opinion is that if i were a GM and needed a defensive gem wouldn't you look at alabama or lsu first (last year)?
I think NFL GMs look at the player first, not the school. It just happens that the really good players at certain positions seem to go to certain schools......but when it comes to WRs any decent GM would NOT necessarily look to the SEC....or necessarily the big conferences.
Here is the list of the Top 20 receivers (by number of catches) and the schools they went to:
Jerry Rice: Mississippi Valley St.
Tony Gonzales: Cal
Marvin Harrison: Syracuse
Cris Carter: Ohio St.
Tim Brown: Notre Dame
Terrell Owens: Tennessee-Chattanooga
Isaac Bruce: Memphis
Hines Ward: Georgia
Randy Moss: Marshall
Andre Reed: Kutztown St. Pa.
Derrick Mason: Michigan St.
Art Monk: Syracuse
Torry Holt: NC St.
Keenan McCardell: UNLV
Jimmy Smith: Jackson St.
Reggie Wayne: Miami Fla.
Muhsin Muhammed: Michigan St.
Irving Fryar: Nebraska
Rod Smith: Missouri Southern
Larry Centers: S.F. Austin
As one can tell, there are far more small college players on this list than SEC players... or most other big conferences.
So the fact that a Mississippi Valley St. can produce the best WR ever, and that Kutztown and S.F. Austin or Chattanooga can do so shows CLEARLY that a Baylor or a Utah could do no worse.
As I see it, the problem is not that the likes of Gordon went to Baylor, but that none of these top WRs have played for the Browns.
(Note, of course that the top WR numbers by catches is heavily weighted toward more recent players due to the proliferation of the passing game)
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If one were to go by Yards per reception, the leader list looks quite a bit different. You coule say that the following were the best home run hitters in football history:
1. Warren Wells 23.1 1964-1970 2TM
2. Ken Kavanaugh 22.4 1940-1950 chi
3. Homer Jones 22.3 1964-1970 2TM
4. Mal Kutner 21.1 1946-1950 crd
5. Buddy Dial 20.8 1959-1966 2TM
6. Cloyce Box 20.7 1949-1954 det
7. Bob Boyd 20.5 1950-1957 ram
8. Harlon Hill 20.2 1954-1962 3TM
9. Flipper Anderson 20.1 1988-1997 4TM
Paul Warfield+ 20.1 1964-1977 2TM
11. Bill Groman 20.0 1960-1965 3TM
Bob Hayes+ 20.0 1965-1975 2TM
13. Willie Gault 19.9 1983-1993 2TM
14. Jimmy Orr 19.8 1958-1970 2TM
15. Ray Renfro 19.6 1952-1963 cle
16. Dokie Williams 19.4 1983-1987 rai
17. Hugh Taylor 19.2 1947-1954 was
Stanley Morgan 19.2 1977-1990 2TM
19. Wesley Walker 19.0 1977-1989 nyj
20. Lance Alworth+ 18.9 1962-1972 2TM
Mel Gray 18.9 1971-1982 crd
Carroll Dale
Interestingly, not a single one of the players on the most catches list appears on this list.
What that seems to tell me is that, though the modern game is more pass oriented....it is oriented toward the shorter pass routes.
I didn't list him here because he is not in the top 20, but the next guy on this list is Mike Wallace of the Steelers who has an 18.7 ypc avg.
Does this make him the top "home run hitter" in the league? Perhaps. But it seems that the long bomb is not as prevalent in today's game as in years past.
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if you look back at my post about the schools i never said they couldn't produce good players i said when did baylor and utah all of a sudden become the benchmark for measuring talent. it was a crack concerning all the hoopla over RGIII and kendall wright this past year. i know phil taylor will be badly missed this year by the browns. and to hoorta's point: i never said all these small schools suck they just aren't the perrenial 'pick a player, any player' type of school that produces top notch players across the board. penn state was once known as linebacker U, miami as wide receiver U. if i were a betting man i'd take a player who plays against great talent every week and produces big time over a player who plays against scrubs and puts up great numbers.
i know college talent doesn't necessarily mean NFL talent. BUT what i saw of alabama's defense against LSU in the national championship game.......if i had my druthers i'd swap out the whole browns defense and fill every position with that defense. guaranteed within a year they'd be top 5 in the NFL.
we picked a QB from the big 12 a couple of years ago who had great college stats and just drafted another who was more interested in baseball until he realized he couldn't cut it and played 2 years in college. so i guess the big 12 is now the QB conference?
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if you look back at my post about the schools i never said they couldn't produce good players i said when did baylor and utah all of a sudden become the benchmark for measuring talent. it was a crack concerning all the hoopla over RGIII and kendall wright this past year. i know phil taylor will be badly missed this year by the browns. and to hoorta's point: i never said all these small schools suck they just aren't the perrenial 'pick a player, any player' type of school that produces top notch players across the board. penn state was once known as linebacker U, miami as wide receiver U. if i were a betting man i'd take a player who plays against great talent every week and produces big time over a player who plays against scrubs and puts up great numbers.
i know college talent doesn't necessarily mean NFL talent. BUT what i saw of alabama's defense against LSU in the national championship game.......if i had my druthers i'd swap out the whole browns defense and fill every position with that defense. guaranteed within a year they'd be top 5 in the NFL.
we picked a QB from the big 12 a couple of years ago who had great college stats and just drafted another who was more interested in baseball until he realized he couldn't cut it and played 2 years in college. so i guess the big 12 is now the QB conference?
if you look back at my post about the schools i never said they couldn't produce good players i said when did baylor and utah all of a sudden become the benchmark for measuring talent.
I don't know that they are the benchmark for producing good talent. I am not the one that said they were. On the other hand, why not? What schools have good talent is an evolutionary thing. When I was younger, Miami Fla. was a nothing school when it came to football. They were a low level independent. Sometime in the early 80s that all changed and they began producing great talent. The same was true for Virginia Tech and several other schools. They evolved into a place where really good talent came from. Maybe Baylor is reaching that point now....becoming "a place" to go for good talented players. The opposite has occurred as well. SMU was a powerhouse before the death penalty was applied to them. Now, perhaps, some of that SMU type talent may be going to Baylor.
it was a crack concerning all the hoopla over RGIII and kendall wright this past year. i know phil taylor will be badly missed this year by the browns. and to hoorta's point: i never said all these small schools suck they just aren't the perrenial 'pick a player, any player' type of school that produces top notch players across the board. penn state was once known as linebacker U, miami as wide receiver U. if i were a betting man i'd take a player who plays against great talent every week and produces big time over a player who plays against scrubs and puts up great numbers.
Except, of course, it appears you would lose your bet based on the production of those players that came from the likes of Kutztown, MVSU, Memphis, S.F. Austin etc.
the ONLY SEC guy on the entire list was Whines Hard.
i know college talent doesn't necessarily mean NFL talent. BUT what i saw of alabama's defense against LSU in the national championship game.......if i had my druthers i'd swap out the whole browns defense and fill every position with that defense. guaranteed within a year they'd be top 5 in the NFL.
we picked a QB from the big 12 a couple of years ago who had great college stats and just drafted another who was more interested in baseball until he realized he couldn't cut it and played 2 years in college. so i guess the big 12 is now the QB conference?
Again, perhaps it is evolutionary. Historically,The Big 12 has NOT been a hotbed of quality NFL QBs (but then, neither has Ohio State). In the history of the Super Bowl the Big 12 produced one single SB starting QB: Vince Ferragamo. And he spent two years at UCLA before transferring...and of course, Nebraska where he played is no longer a Big 12 school (though it might have been known as The Big 8 when he played there)
However, now, perhaps the Big 12 is producing some good NFL QBs. You will have Big 12 starting QBs perhaps in the following locales: Redskins, Bengals, Browns, Jags, Dolphins (if Tanehill starts), Rams, maybe more.
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Here is the breakdown of the projected 32 NFL starting QBs this fall, and the conferences from whence they come:
The Pac-12: 7: Sanchez USC, Moore Ore St., Luck Stanford, Rodgers Cal, Cassell USC, Smith Utah now in Pac 12, Palmer USC
SEC: 6: Flynn LSU, P.Manning Tenn., Stafford Georgia, Cutler Vanderbilt, Newton Auburn, E.Manning Ole Miss
ACC: 6: Rivers NC St., Schaub Va. Tech, Ponder FSU, Hasselback BC, Ryan BC, Vick Va. Tech.
Big 12: 6: Bradford OK, Weeden OK St., Dalton TCU now in B-12, Freeman KSU, Gabbert Mizz., Griffin Baylor
Big 10: 2 Brady Michigan, Brees Purdue
Conference USA: 1 Kolb Houston
MAC: 1 Roethlisberger Miami,O.
Ivy: Fitzpatrick Harvard
Small schools: Flacco Delaware, Romo Eastern Illinois
(So, the Big 12 seems to be holding its own at producing QBs.....It is the Big Ten that seems to be lagging off.)
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without doing the research that you have provided i would have guess the pac 12 would have the most number of QBs starting in the league.
and yes the big ten is slipping. i can't remember the last time ohio state had a good QB.
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This doesn't change anything about your breakdown because it's still ACC. But Schaub went to UVA not Virginia Tech. I'm a UVA fan and I take major offense to that buddy.
Don't disrespect the great UVA with that disgusting Virginia Tech nonsense.
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A note on this "what school do you look to to obtain talent question". Recall that for the first 50 years of football the primary sources of football talent were the Ivy Leagues. They were at the forefront right up till the 1930s. Then came the era of Notre Dame and Army and Navy. Army/Navy slipped.....and it seems that Notre Dame has slipped since the late 80s. It has been a full generation since they won a national title.
So, a new era can come along at any time. Maybe Baylor can become somewhat of a powerhouse. If smaller, private colleges like Miami and Notre Dame can do it, so might a Baylor if they are able to attract talent.
Nothing says "come to our school to play football" like showing top notch recruits things like Heisman Trophies, high first round draft picks, multiple first and second round draft picks. Phil Taylor, RGIII, Wright, Gordon, etc. etc. all say "screw Texas and Oklahoma come to Baylor and become an NFL spotlighted prospect".
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This doesn't change anything about your breakdown because it's still ACC. But Schaub went to UVA not Virginia Tech. I'm a UVA fan and I take major offense to that buddy.
Don't disrespect the great UVA with that disgusting Virginia Tech nonsense.
This doesn't change anything about your breakdown because it's still ACC. But Schaub went to UVA not Virginia Tech. I'm a UVA fan and I take major offense to that buddy.
Don't disrespect the great UVA with that disgusting Virginia Tech nonsense.
Sorry, I was going from memory. At least I got the right state.
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No worries. I'm not actually mad haha, but Virginia Tech is my college Steelers. So it hurt haha
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Here is the breakdown of the projected 32 NFL starting QBs this fall, and the conferences from whence they come:
The Pac-12: 7: Sanchez USC, Moore Ore St., Luck Stanford, Rodgers Cal, Cassell USC, Smith Utah now in Pac 12, Palmer USC
SEC: 6: Flynn LSU, P.Manning Tenn., Stafford Georgia, Cutler Vanderbilt, Newton Auburn, E.Manning Ole Miss
ACC: 6: Rivers NC St., Schaub Va. Tech, Ponder FSU, Hasselback BC, Ryan BC, Vick Va. Tech.
Big 12: 6: Bradford OK, Weeden OK St., Dalton TCU now in B-12, Freeman KSU, Gabbert Mizz., Griffin Baylor
Big 10: 2 Brady Michigan, Brees Purdue
Conference USA: 1 Kolb Houston
MAC: 1 Roethlisberger Miami,O.
Ivy: Fitzpatrick Harvard
Small schools: Flacco Delaware, Romo Eastern Illinois
(So, the Big 12 seems to be holding its own at producing QBs.....It is the Big Ten that seems to be lagging off.)
Here is the breakdown of the projected 32 NFL starting QBs this fall, and the conferences from whence they come:
The Pac-12: 7: Sanchez USC, Moore Ore St., Luck Stanford, Rodgers Cal, Cassell USC, Smith Utah now in Pac 12, Palmer USC
SEC: 6: Flynn LSU, P.Manning Tenn., Stafford Georgia, Cutler Vanderbilt, Newton Auburn, E.Manning Ole Miss
ACC: 6: Rivers NC St., Schaub Va. Tech, Ponder FSU, Hasselback BC, Ryan BC, Vick Va. Tech.
Big 12: 6: Bradford OK, Weeden OK St., Dalton TCU now in B-12, Freeman KSU, Gabbert Mizz., Griffin Baylor
Big 10: 2 Brady Michigan, Brees Purdue
Conference USA: 1 Kolb Houston
MAC: 1 Roethlisberger Miami,O.
Ivy: Fitzpatrick Harvard
Small schools: Flacco Delaware, Romo Eastern Illinois
(So, the Big 12 seems to be holding its own at producing QBs.....It is the Big Ten that seems to be lagging off.)
Tebow will start over Sanchez by week 4 or 5.
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Here is the breakdown of the projected 32 NFL starting QBs this fall, and the conferences from whence they come:
The Pac-12: 7: Sanchez USC, Moore Ore St., Luck Stanford, Rodgers Cal, Cassell USC, Smith Utah now in Pac 12, Palmer USC
SEC: 6: Flynn LSU, P.Manning Tenn., Stafford Georgia, Cutler Vanderbilt, Newton Auburn, E.Manning Ole Miss
ACC: 6: Rivers NC St., Schaub Va. Tech, Ponder FSU, Hasselback BC, Ryan BC, Vick Va. Tech.
Big 12: 6: Bradford OK, Weeden OK St., Dalton TCU now in B-12, Freeman KSU, Gabbert Mizz., Griffin Baylor
Big 10: 2 Brady Michigan, Brees Purdue
Conference USA: 1 Kolb Houston
MAC: 1 Roethlisberger Miami,O.
Ivy: Fitzpatrick Harvard
Small schools: Flacco Delaware, Romo Eastern Illinois
(So, the Big 12 seems to be holding its own at producing QBs.....It is the Big Ten that seems to be lagging off.)
Tebow will start over Sanchez by week 4 or 5.
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no. it's an opinion. my opinion is that if i were a GM and needed a defensive gem wouldn't you look at alabama or lsu first (last year)?
Even if he did fail a third at Utah, which I doubt considering the circumstances of who came out with the info and when, he still admitted to the two he got at Baylor in the post draft interview he had with Cleveland media.
Oh and when it comes down to it I will always believe a person face to face over some anonymous people who are not willing to give their names.
http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2012/07/despite_a_report_browns_receiv.html
Even if he did fail a third at Utah, which I doubt considering the circumstances of who came out with the info and when, he still admitted to the two he got at Baylor in the post draft interview he had with Cleveland media.
Oh and when it comes down to it I will always believe a person face to face over some anonymous people who are not willing to give their names.
http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2012/07/despite_a_report_browns_receiv.html
ok, now what ya got to say?
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Today is a big day in mik's life.
He's finally right about something.
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Today is a big day in mik's life.
He's finally right about something.
Today is a big day in mik's life.
He's finally right about something.
and i'm still roid free!
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Today is a big day in mik's life.
He's finally right about something.
and i'm still roid free!
I'm awesome, and I fuck dolphins. Ghoolie 12/2/2012: I have absolutely no skills, training or pride -
Today is a big day in mik's life.
He's finally right about something.
and i'm still roid free!
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Me too, let's start a club.
ok. you can teach how to lift stacks, and i can teach how to lift drafts(s) beer that is.
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Me too, let's start a club.
ok. you can teach how to lift stacks, and i can teach how to lift drafts(s) beer that is.
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