Stand Your Ground Hearing Could Potentially Clear Zimmerman In Trayvon Martin Shooting
-
I'm not sure what stand your ground has to do with it.
Zimmerman had allegedly already been attacked and thrown to the ground.
if so the opportunity to flee the altercation would not have been available.
at that point it's simple self defense.
WSS
"Stand your Ground" law is Florida's version of self defense. The question is did Zimmerman invalidate his "stand your ground defense" when he didn't listen to 911 and followed Martin, or was Zimmerman still in the right of self defense when Martin attacked(which ironically could be considered he was "Standing his ground" by state law). That is what the judge will need to decide.
"Stand your Ground" law is Florida's version of self defense. The question is did Zimmerman invalidate his "stand your ground defense" when he didn't listen to 911 and followed Martin, or was Zimmerman still in the right of self defense when Martin attacked(which ironically could be considered he was "Standing his ground" by state law). That is what the judge will need to decide.
Actually stand your ground offers a caveat to self defense.
It means you are not required by law to try to escape if you are threatened.
Keep in mind that he was never told not to follow, only that the dispatcher didn't need him to
That is distinctly different from telling him to stop.
WSS
-
Sorry but if a dispatcher asks me are you following, and then says "We don’t need you to do that." I would take that as a do not follow and meet the police where they talk about meeting the police.
-
Sorry but if a dispatcher asks me are you following, and then says "We don’t need you to do that." I would take that as a do not follow and meet the police where they talk about meeting the police.
Sorry but if a dispatcher asks me are you following, and then says "We don’t need you to do that." I would take that as a do not follow and meet the police where they talk about meeting the police.
I'm just going by what was actually said, not what someone would want it to mean.
Still following someone in public is hardly illegal nor should it call for an attack.
There is no allegation that zimmerman actually attacked martin that I am aware of.
If he had then perhaps martin would have been able to use the stand your ground issue.
Of course things didn't turn out that way...
WSS
-
Sorry but if a dispatcher asks me are you following, and then says "We don’t need you to do that." I would take that as a do not follow and meet the police where they talk about meeting the police.
Sorry but if a dispatcher asks me are you following, and then says "We don’t need you to do that." I would take that as a do not follow and meet the police where they talk about meeting the police.
Exactly...I feel sorry for Zimmerman & the Martin family.
The big lesson is we don't need pseudo-police patrolling around. They are improperly trained, and certainly should not be carrying guns.
-
Sorry but if a dispatcher asks me are you following, and then says "We don’t need you to do that." I would take that as a do not follow and meet the police where they talk about meeting the police.
Exactly...I feel sorry for Zimmerman & the Martin family.
The big lesson is we don't need pseudo-police patrolling around. They are improperly trained, and certainly should not be carrying guns.
Exactly...I feel sorry for Zimmerman & the Martin family.
The big lesson is we don't need pseudo-police patrolling around. They are improperly trained, and certainly should not be carrying guns.
So in effect you oppose concealed carry.
I would say the lesson to be learned is not to attack someone.
WSS
www.westsidesteve.com www.myspace.com/westsidestevemusic www.cdbaby.com/artist/westsidestevesimmons -
Actually, for Zimmerman's position with the neighborhood watch group, he WAS doing what he was supposed to be doing.
A 911 operator is just that - a responder. That responder has no business telling somebody they shouldn't do whatever.
Reponder. They send emergency help. I don't know why he called them before Martin ATTACKED HIM, while he was
going back to his truck. That is illegal on Martin's actions, and trying to knock Zimmerman senseless or dead on the pavement..
wrestling for the gun Martin sees in the struggle, all allegedly, based on on Zimmerman's statements, I don't see how
the jury can do anything but declare him innocent. The rationalization that Zimmerman should have not been there, or shouldn't
have continued to follow him... he quit following him, and went back into his truck. And the hoodlum, seeing Zimmerman walk
back to his truck, and having already either circled around, or come out of hiding, to attack him for finding him out or whatever, broke the law when
deciding to commit the felonious assult on Zimmerman. Like a bear or mountain lion, they will decide to chase down and kill,
if you turn and run out of weakness.
Anyways, the NBP, Obamao's mafia, have made it impossible for Zimmerman to get a fair trial. And if he does, and if that ends up
with him INNOCENT, the left will not accept it, and will use it to their politically violent advantage. CCW. You don't know anymore.
-
Sorry but if a dispatcher asks me are you following, and then says "We don’t need you to do that." I would take that as a do not follow and meet the police where they talk about meeting the police.
I'm just going by what was actually said, not what someone would want it to mean.
Still following someone in public is hardly illegal nor should it call for an attack.
There is no allegation that zimmerman actually attacked martin that I am aware of.
If he had then perhaps martin would have been able to use the stand your ground issue.
Of course things didn't turn out that way...
WSS
I'm just going by what was actually said, not what someone would want it to mean.
Still following someone in public is hardly illegal nor should it call for an attack.
There is no allegation that zimmerman actually attacked martin that I am aware of.
If he had then perhaps martin would have been able to use the stand your ground issue.
Of course things didn't turn out that way...
WSS
and now we get into why I don't like FL's Stand your ground law it doesn't require the person to be attacked
"He or she reasonably believes that such force is necessary to prevent imminent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the imminent commission of a forcible felony; or"
Someone seems to be following you in a car then gets out with a gun and follows you on foot when you try to escape the situation...that could be ruled that Martin was using self defense.
whether or not Zimmerman will get the ruling in his favor depends if the judge rules that
"776.041 Use of force by aggressor. —The justification described in the preceding sections of this chapter is not available to a person who:
(1) Is attempting to commit, committing, or escaping after the commission of, a forcible felony; or
(2) Initially provokes the use of force against himself or herself, unless:
Such force is so great that the person reasonably believes that he or she is in imminent danger of death or great bodily harm and that he or she has exhausted every reasonable means to escape such danger other than the use of force which is likely to cause death or great bodily harm to the assailant; or"
Which puts this ruling into a very grey situation, had Martin simply pulled a gun and killed Zimmerman and claimed the self defense he could of taken the Stand your Ground defense as Zimmerman did, but since he was unarmed and using his hands to defend himself. He was killed in the process and Zimmerman can use this clause.
-
Exactly...I feel sorry for Zimmerman & the Martin family.
The big lesson is we don't need pseudo-police patrolling around. They are improperly trained, and certainly should not be carrying guns.
So in effect you oppose concealed carry.
I would say the lesson to be learned is not to attack someone.
WSS
So in effect you oppose concealed carry.
I would say the lesson to be learned is not to attack someone.
WSS
I don't oppose concealed carry.
I oppose pseudo-police who are improperly trained, mainly because they could over react to stressful situations. Policing shouldn't be a hobby for somebody, it can be very dangerous.
-
But that is exactly what neighborhood watch group are.
How much training do you believe a citizens watch group should have?
And should citizen watch group augment the police at all?
Secondly martin did not know zimmerman had a gun when he attacked him.
Zimmerman did not pull the gun and shoot him, he was attacked before he drew the weapon.
Martin may well have believed zimmerman was about to attack him And that could have justified is preemptive response.
WSS
www.westsidesteve.com www.myspace.com/westsidestevemusic www.cdbaby.com/artist/westsidestevesimmons -
Do you know that Martin didn't see his gun before attacking? While its unlikely the only word that we have is Zimmerman's that the gun was not drawn before Martin attacked. He could have had his gun out or at least in a visible location(though unlikely with it being at night).
-
But that is exactly what neighborhood watch group are.
How much training do you believe a citizens watch group should have?
And should citizen watch group augment the police at all?
Secondly martin did not know zimmerman had a gun when he attacked him.
Zimmerman did not pull the gun and shoot him, he was attacked before he drew the weapon.
Martin may well have believed zimmerman was about to attack him And that could have justified is preemptive response.
WSS
But that is exactly what neighborhood watch group are.
How much training do you believe a citizens watch group should have?
And should citizen watch group augment the police at all?
WSS
Citizens watch groups are fine, they certainly can serve a purpose and help the police out. A "watch group" is just that...more sets of eyes to make sure things are safe. That is all the training that is required.
Just don't arm them. One incident is more than enough to prove that.
-
Someone seems to be following you in a car then gets out with a gun and follows you on foot when you try to escape the situation...that could be ruled that Martin was using self defense.
*********************
It was concealed carry. If Zimmerman had it in his hand, he still isn't breaking the law. The idea that Martin came out of hiding, and attacked someone with a gun in his hand, getting back into his truck, out of self defense makes no sense. If Martin saw the gun, he'd stay hidden. Martin had a cell phone. He never called 911. Because he was up to no good the entire time, I think, that's why.
-
Someone seems to be following you in a car then gets out with a gun and follows you on foot when you try to escape the situation...that could be ruled that Martin was using self defense.
*********************
It was concealed carry. If Zimmerman had it in his hand, he still isn't breaking the law. The idea that Martin came out of hiding, and attacked someone with a gun in his hand, getting back into his truck, out of self defense makes no sense. If Martin saw the gun, he'd stay hidden. Martin had a cell phone. He never called 911. Because he was up to no good the entire time, I think, that's why.
Someone seems to be following you in a car then gets out with a gun and follows you on foot when you try to escape the situation...that could be ruled that Martin was using self defense.
*********************
It was concealed carry. If Zimmerman had it in his hand, he still isn't breaking the law. The idea that Martin came out of hiding, and attacked someone with a gun in his hand, getting back into his truck, out of self defense makes no sense. If Martin saw the gun, he'd stay hidden. Martin had a cell phone. He never called 911. Because he was up to no good the entire time, I think, that's why.
"Getting back into his truck" is there proof that he was? Outside of Zimmerman statements? According the articles I could find there is roughly a 1 minute span that police are unsure of what transpired.
According to Zimmerman in this 1 min he lost track of Martin and returned to his car. According to Martin's girlfriend she heard shouting and what sounded like Martin being shoved.
Imo from what I have read articles wise, Zimmerman followed after Martin tried to confront him(no evidence that Zimmerman identified himself as a neighbor hood watchmen), Martin fought him(no evidence of who attacked who) and Zimmerman was losing the fight and shot Martin. Did Zimmerman feel his life was in danger? Did Martin feel his life was in danger followed and came after him? This is what a judge will have to decide in regards to the case.
-
Well, of course Zimmerman has made statements. But I take his statemente over Martin's girlfriend who
is a biased witness, to put it extremely mildly, who says "she thought she heard Zimmerman pushing Martin.."
WHAT? That's ridiculous. Even "hearing" a push, how do you "hear" the object of the push? Come on.
The primary key, is "innocent until proven guilty".
That gives Zimmerman, and anybody else, innocence until the evidence comes in to the contrary.
-
But that is exactly what neighborhood watch group are.
How much training do you believe a citizens watch group should have?
And should citizen watch group augment the police at all?
Secondly martin did not know zimmerman had a gun when he attacked him.
Zimmerman did not pull the gun and shoot him, he was attacked before he drew the weapon.
Martin may well have believed zimmerman was about to attack him And that could have justified is preemptive response.
WSS
But that is exactly what neighborhood watch group are.
How much training do you believe a citizens watch group should have?
And should citizen watch group augment the police at all?
Secondly martin did not know zimmerman had a gun when he attacked him.
Zimmerman did not pull the gun and shoot him, he was attacked before he drew the weapon.
Martin may well have believed zimmerman was about to attack him And that could have justified is preemptive response.
WSS
Neighborhood watch do not have police powers (powers of arrest). There only job is to observe and report.
-
Well, of course Zimmerman has made statements. But I take his statemente over Martin's girlfriend who
is a biased witness, to put it extremely mildly, who says "she thought she heard Zimmerman pushing Martin.."
WHAT? That's ridiculous. Even "hearing" a push, how do you "hear" the object of the push? Come on.
The primary key, is "innocent until proven guilty".
That gives Zimmerman, and anybody else, innocence until the evidence comes in to the contrary.
Well, of course Zimmerman has made statements. But I take his statemente over Martin's girlfriend who
is a biased witness, to put it extremely mildly, who says "she thought she heard Zimmerman pushing Martin.."
WHAT? That's ridiculous. Even "hearing" a push, how do you "hear" the object of the push? Come on.
The primary key, is "innocent until proven guilty".
That gives Zimmerman, and anybody else, innocence until the evidence comes in to the contrary.
You can hear a push or at least the sound effects made from someone being pushed. Also for your he was returning to the truck statement My link you can watch Zimmerman recount the events from that night and from the location of the incident he is not close to his car.
-
But that is exactly what neighborhood watch group are.
How much training do you believe a citizens watch group should have?
And should citizen watch group augment the police at all?
Secondly martin did not know zimmerman had a gun when he attacked him.
Zimmerman did not pull the gun and shoot him, he was attacked before he drew the weapon.
Martin may well have believed zimmerman was about to attack him And that could have justified is preemptive response.
WSS
Neighborhood watch do not have police powers (powers of arrest). There only job is to observe and report.
Neighborhood watch do not have police powers (powers of arrest). There only job is to observe and report.
And all the evidence shows it that's exactly what was being done.
WSS
-
which is part of anyones liberties..... or are they being STRIPPED away too? answer....Yes
-
which is part of anyones liberties..... or are they being STRIPPED away too? answer....Yes
which is part of anyones liberties..... or are they being STRIPPED away too? answer....Yes
If your referring to Zimmerman's right to protect oneself, doesn't Martin also have that right? That is what is being argued and judged and would determine whether or not Zimmerman goes to trial for the death of Martin or not.
My best guess is that the ruling goes against Zimmerman on this issue but pleads guilty to lesser crime than murder 2(something along the lines of accidental death) and would face time served plus probation and a lawsuit from Martin's family.
-
which is part of anyones liberties..... or are they being STRIPPED away too? answer....Yes
If your referring to Zimmerman's right to protect oneself, doesn't Martin also have that right? That is what is being argued and judged and would determine whether or not Zimmerman goes to trial for the death of Martin or not.
My best guess is that the ruling goes against Zimmerman on this issue but pleads guilty to lesser crime than murder 2(something along the lines of accidental death) and would face time served plus probation and a lawsuit from Martin's family.
If your referring to Zimmerman's right to protect oneself, doesn't Martin also have that right? That is what is being argued and judged and would determine whether or not Zimmerman goes to trial for the death of Martin or not.
My best guess is that the ruling goes against Zimmerman on this issue but pleads guilty to lesser crime than murder 2(something along the lines of accidental death) and would face time served plus probation and a lawsuit from Martin's family.
Martin certainly has that right.
If Zimmerman had attacked him he should be able to defend himself.
I don't think anyone is suggesting that's what happened though.
WSS
Hello! It looks like you're interested in this conversation, but you don't have an account yet.
Getting fed up of having to scroll through the same posts each visit? When you register for an account, you'll always come back to exactly where you were before, and choose to be notified of new replies (either via email, or push notification). You'll also be able to save bookmarks and upvote posts to show your appreciation to other community members.
With your input, this post could be even better 💗
Register Login