95 Browns Season
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i watched and thought it was very well done. and to anyone that said belichik is an asshole....is an asshole. we had some great coaches and staff. the piece actually dealt with the team being built and the history of the coaches before and after. not so much on the move itself.
there were 2 people that stood out to me to be half insane and that was saban (looked like a nervous wreck bouncing up and down at the meetings...) and kokinos's kid. where they find this dude in line at the methadon clinic? geez. must be nice to have a powerful dad. just ask pat shurmur.
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i watched and thought it was very well done. and to anyone that said belichik is an asshole....is an asshole. we had some great coaches and staff. the piece actually dealt with the team being built and the history of the coaches before and after. not so much on the move itself.
there were 2 people that stood out to me to be half insane and that was saban (looked like a nervous wreck bouncing up and down at the meetings...) and kokinos's kid. where they find this dude in line at the methadon clinic? geez. must be nice to have a powerful dad. just ask pat shurmur.
i watched and thought it was very well done. and to anyone that said belichik is an asshole....is an asshole. we had some great coaches and staff. the piece actually dealt with the team being built and the history of the coaches before and after. not so much on the move itself.
there were 2 people that stood out to me to be half insane and that was saban (looked like a nervous wreck bouncing up and down at the meetings...) and kokinos's kid. where they find this dude in line at the methadon clinic? geez. must be nice to have a powerful dad. just ask pat shurmur.
I was probably one of the few Browns fans who liked Belichick back in the day. Even though I didn't like how he handled the Bernie situation. At any rate, I do think the piece was well done. It brought back a lot painful memories, as well as a lot of anger, and finally just sadness. It pisses me off to know what might have been! To top it when the Browns were returning, they dangled Bernie Kosar in front of us. Well, Bernie stated yesterday on 850 that the reason that there was a disconnect with Lerner, Policy, and Bernie was because Bernie recommended that Belichick be hired to coach the new Browns! So even with the move, there was a chance to make this shit right, right from the start! It was for that reason that they threw Kosar under the bus! Can you imagine how the course of history over the past 13 years could have changed had Lerner and Policy listened to Bernie?
Instead, we have been dealt a turd sandwich since 1999! Damn! I can't wait for Haslam to come in here and turn this shit around! -
Watched it last night on DVR after the debates(what a joke they were
)... Sigh... what could have been! So to those in Baltimore, New England, and any other football program such as the college programs in Alabama and Iowa that has reaped the benefits of success from these disciples of the Bellichick tree, at the expense of Cleveland and it's loyal fans, who now have had to put up with this pathetic shit of losing for 13 years....
YOU'RE WELCOME!!!!!
Signed Cleveland Browns fans!
BTW did anybody hear Bernie Kosar on 850 during drive time yesterday? If you did, then you know what I'm talking about, and it should infuriate you even more!
Watched it last night on DVR after the debates(what a joke they were
)... Sigh... what could have been! So to those in Baltimore, New England, and any other football program such as the college programs in Alabama and Iowa that has reaped the benefits of success from these disciples of the Bellichick tree, at the expense of Cleveland and it's loyal fans, who now have had to put up with this pathetic shit of losing for 13 years....
YOU'RE WELCOME!!!!!
Signed Cleveland Browns fans!
BTW did anybody hear Bernie Kosar on 850 during drive time yesterday? If you did, then you know what I'm talking about, and it should infuriate you even more!
Who has reaped the benefit of the Belichick tree, other than Belichick himself? Most of his "disciples" have been failures...at the NFL level. Weis, Josh McDaniels, even Saban in his Miami stint. And as far as I am concerned the Browns fans have SUFFERED under Belichick knockoffs Crennell and Mangini.
Sorry, but the Belichick tree has been the tree of the poisonous fruit.
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Watched it last night on DVR after the debates(what a joke they were
)... Sigh... what could have been! So to those in Baltimore, New England, and any other football program such as the college programs in Alabama and Iowa that has reaped the benefits of success from these disciples of the Bellichick tree, at the expense of Cleveland and it's loyal fans, who now have had to put up with this pathetic shit of losing for 13 years....
YOU'RE WELCOME!!!!!
Signed Cleveland Browns fans!
BTW did anybody hear Bernie Kosar on 850 during drive time yesterday? If you did, then you know what I'm talking about, and it should infuriate you even more!
Who has reaped the benefit of the Belichick tree, other than Belichick himself? Most of his "disciples" have been failures...at the NFL level. Weis, Josh McDaniels, even Saban in his Miami stint. And as far as I am concerned the Browns fans have SUFFERED under Belichick knockoffs Crennell and Mangini.
Sorry, but the Belichick tree has been the tree of the poisonous fruit.
Who has reaped the benefit of the Belichick tree, other than Belichick himself? Most of his "disciples" have been failures...at the NFL level. Weis, Josh McDaniels, even Saban in his Miami stint. And as far as I am concerned the Browns fans have SUFFERED under Belichick knockoffs Crennell and Mangini.
Sorry, but the Belichick tree has been the tree of the poisonous fruit.
Nevertheless, had the Browns not moved, and with that combination, the team would have been in the GOD DAMN Super Bowl! As for Saban, he's doing quite well at Alabama. I don't think he loses any sleep over his stint with the Dolphins.
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This is just a subset of the Paul Brown tree.
Other subsets include the Don Shula branch, the Chuck Noll Branch (Fox, Dungy, Lovie Smith, Tomlin), the Weeb Ewbank branch(Chuck Knox, Buddy Ryan, Jeff Fisher, Rex Ryan), the Bill Arsbarger branch (Schottenheimer, Cowher) The Ray Perkins branch (Parcells, Coughlin, Payton, Belichick, Sparano) and on and on.
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Who has reaped the benefit of the Belichick tree, other than Belichick himself? Most of his "disciples" have been failures...at the NFL level. Weis, Josh McDaniels, even Saban in his Miami stint. And as far as I am concerned the Browns fans have SUFFERED under Belichick knockoffs Crennell and Mangini.
Sorry, but the Belichick tree has been the tree of the poisonous fruit.
Nevertheless, had the Browns not moved, and with that combination, the team would have been in the GOD DAMN Super Bowl! As for Saban, he's doing quite well at Alabama. I don't think he loses any sleep over his stint with the Dolphins.
Nevertheless, had the Browns not moved, and with that combination, the team would have been in the GOD DAMN Super Bowl! As for Saban, he's doing quite well at Alabama. I don't think he loses any sleep over his stint with the Dolphins.
Sure, at this point everything is cushy, cozy, easy, peasy, lemon squeezy for him. He has to exert little effort...i..e. he is unchallenged.
And as for me, I think less of him for it.
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There is valid argument to say that the coaching success that Bill Belichick has enjoyed can be boiled down to two words:
Tom Brady
The year before, with Drew Bledsoe at QB, the Pats were a 5-11 team with BB as HC. Brady came in in early 2001 and the rest is history. What we obviously don't know is whether or not BB could have been as successful an HC without TB.
(question: when Brady retires do you think BB also calls it quits?)
And, to be a little sacriligeous here, in an earlier age, you could also question the success of Paul Brown. His success is mostly tied up into the presence of Otto Graham. When OG left in the 1956 season the Browns fell apart.
OG returned in 1957 and the Browns again went to the NFL title game. But OG retired again after '57 and the Browns under PB never again made the NFL title game. Not again til 1964 and 1965 with Blanton Collier as coach.
I am not questioning PBs credentials, its just that like with Belichick and Brady, the success of a coach is often so intertwined with a star QB. Bill Walsh never won without Montana.
An obvious exception is: Joe Gibbs, three Super Bowl titles with 3 different QBs.
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It's crazy seeing how many people were involved with the Browns organization. Not even the well known head coaches, but people like Thomas Dimitroff, Mike Tannenbaum and Scott Pioli.
That was an absolute stellar staff.
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There is valid argument to say that the coaching success that Bill Belichick has enjoyed can be boiled down to two words:
Tom Brady
The year before, with Drew Bledsoe at QB, the Pats were a 5-11 team with BB as HC. Brady came in in early 2001 and the rest is history. What we obviously don't know is whether or not BB could have been as successful an HC without TB.
(question: when Brady retires do you think BB also calls it quits?)
And, to be a little sacriligeous here, in an earlier age, you could also question the success of Paul Brown. His success is mostly tied up into the presence of Otto Graham. When OG left in the 1956 season the Browns fell apart.
OG returned in 1957 and the Browns again went to the NFL title game. But OG retired again after '57 and the Browns under PB never again made the NFL title game. Not again til 1964 and 1965 with Blanton Collier as coach.
I am not questioning PBs credentials, its just that like with Belichick and Brady, the success of a coach is often so intertwined with a star QB. Bill Walsh never won without Montana.
An obvious exception is: Joe Gibbs, three Super Bowl titles with 3 different QBs.
There is valid argument to say that the coaching success that Bill Belichick has enjoyed can be boiled down to two words:
Tom Brady
The year before, with Drew Bledsoe at QB, the Pats were a 5-11 team with BB as HC. Brady came in in early 2001 and the rest is history. What we obviously don't know is whether or not BB could have been as successful an HC without TB.
(question: when Brady retires do you think BB also calls it quits?)
And, to be a little sacriligeous here, in an earlier age, you could also question the success of Paul Brown. His success is mostly tied up into the presence of Otto Graham. When OG left in the 1956 season the Browns fell apart.
OG returned in 1957 and the Browns again went to the NFL title game. But OG retired again after '57 and the Browns under PB never again made the NFL title game. Not again til 1964 and 1965 with Blanton Collier as coach.
I am not questioning PBs credentials, its just that like with Belichick and Brady, the success of a coach is often so intertwined with a star QB. Bill Walsh never won without Montana.
An obvious exception is: Joe Gibbs, three Super Bowl titles with 3 different QBs.
While I was a Belichik hater when he was here, I have come to the realization that the guy is maybe the best HC...ever....period. It sucks that he didn't show it when he was here. Well, maybe he did, but some of us were just too stupid with loyalty to our players to see it. Does the QB make the HC, or does the HC make the QB? Maybe Brady would have never been successful without Belichik. Remember how he transformed Testeverde into a very good QB? Intercepteverde was a huge failure until he played under Parcells and Belichik. Yeah....I hated the day he cut Kosar, and claimed "diminished skills", which was true, by the way. I understand now, that he had to have complete control of the team to move forward, and Kosar was not cooperating, due to differences in philosophies. He really had to get rid of Bernie, Slaughter, and the others that didn't respect his methods. He didn't really do anything to deserve the respect of the fans, players, and media, though. He talked down to the media, and this is why he was not liked. He learned from his time here, and has made the best of it. I really can't hate the guy any longer.
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There is valid argument to say that the coaching success that Bill Belichick has enjoyed can be boiled down to two words:
Tom Brady
The year before, with Drew Bledsoe at QB, the Pats were a 5-11 team with BB as HC. Brady came in in early 2001 and the rest is history. What we obviously don't know is whether or not BB could have been as successful an HC without TB.
(question: when Brady retires do you think BB also calls it quits?)
And, to be a little sacriligeous here, in an earlier age, you could also question the success of Paul Brown. His success is mostly tied up into the presence of Otto Graham. When OG left in the 1956 season the Browns fell apart.
OG returned in 1957 and the Browns again went to the NFL title game. But OG retired again after '57 and the Browns under PB never again made the NFL title game. Not again til 1964 and 1965 with Blanton Collier as coach.
I am not questioning PBs credentials, its just that like with Belichick and Brady, the success of a coach is often so intertwined with a star QB. Bill Walsh never won without Montana.
An obvious exception is: Joe Gibbs, three Super Bowl titles with 3 different QBs.
While I was a Belichik hater when he was here, I have come to the realization that the guy is maybe the best HC...ever....period. It sucks that he didn't show it when he was here. Well, maybe he did, but some of us were just too stupid with loyalty to our players to see it. Does the QB make the HC, or does the HC make the QB? Maybe Brady would have never been successful without Belichik. Remember how he transformed Testeverde into a very good QB? Intercepteverde was a huge failure until he played under Parcells and Belichik. Yeah....I hated the day he cut Kosar, and claimed "diminished skills", which was true, by the way. I understand now, that he had to have complete control of the team to move forward, and Kosar was not cooperating, due to differences in philosophies. He really had to get rid of Bernie, Slaughter, and the others that didn't respect his methods. He didn't really do anything to deserve the respect of the fans, players, and media, though. He talked down to the media, and this is why he was not liked. He learned from his time here, and has made the best of it. I really can't hate the guy any longer.
While I was a Belichik hater when he was here, I have come to the realization that the guy is maybe the best HC...ever....period. It sucks that he didn't show it when he was here. Well, maybe he did, but some of us were just too stupid with loyalty to our players to see it. Does the QB make the HC, or does the HC make the QB? Maybe Brady would have never been successful without Belichik. Remember how he transformed Testeverde into a very good QB? Intercepteverde was a huge failure until he played under Parcells and Belichik. Yeah....I hated the day he cut Kosar, and claimed "diminished skills", which was true, by the way. I understand now, that he had to have complete control of the team to move forward, and Kosar was not cooperating, due to differences in philosophies. He really had to get rid of Bernie, Slaughter, and the others that didn't respect his methods. He didn't really do anything to deserve the respect of the fans, players, and media, though. He talked down to the media, and this is why he was not liked. He learned from his time here, and has made the best of it. I really can't hate the guy any longer.
Well, the Kosar thing had happened a couple of years earlier, and he did have the Browns in the playoffs in 1994, and things weren't going bad in 1995 until Modell pulled the rug out from under him. Had none of that happened and BB had stayed here coaching things may have gotten a lot better with the Brown winning and BB finally becoming a human being. (Though it is far to difficult to second guess).
But I am completing divorcing BBs Cleveland time to ask if his coaching creds are not due to his reliance on a superior QB. It seems like he is still doing quite well with all the different personell changes he has made over the years, and change of styles. Nevertheless, he has still always had that security blanket to rely on...Mr. Brady.
Without TB perhaps the Pats go splat. They didn't the first time he lost a year to injury. They went 11-5 with Matt Cassell. But who knows what would go if it happened again.
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Bill Belichick was a failure before Tom Brady,and will be a Failure after him...Nuff said...I still think hes an asshole.
Bill Belichick was a failure before Tom Brady,and will be a Failure after him...Nuff said...I still think hes an asshole.
Our first Superbowl win here in New England came when Brady was nothing more than a rookie game manager. He wasn't Tom Brady `the legend,` the elite passer, the dreaded Tom Brady who torches and humiliates defenses through the air with 450 yards and 6 touchdown passes. Now Tom Brady is something of a folk hero here in Massachusetts, he's the pride and joy of sports in our area, but in 2001, when Bledsoe first went down, that wasn't the case.
The Patriots team that shocked the world and defied the naysayers in 2001 was not the elite Tom Brady lead offensive team that shattered records on the way to their 18-0 Superbowl appearance or went to the Superbowl last year on the back of arguably the greatest quarterback ever and Belichick's revolutionary TE attack. It was the "blue collar, hard nosed" very physical defensive team that Belichick had in mind for Cleveland. Tom Brady was a very lucky break for us, coming in the 6th round, but the 2001 Superbowl was more Belichick's baby than it was Brady's.
I registered on this forum after watching A Football Life: Cleveland '95.
I was 15 years old at the time and while I watched the NFL religiously with my friends, I learned a lot from this I didn't previously know.
I didn't realize the extent to which that abomination, the Baltimore Ravens, are essentially Belichick's bastard child, and that the success of their entire organization basically came through him from his time spent in Cleveland.
And while this isn't meant at all to rub salt in your wounds, it seems pretty clear that all of the football success that we've enjoyed here in New England, the Dynasty, the Superbowls, the lasting legacy of success that will now carry us forward even after Brady and Belichick one day retire, putting us with the great NFL organizations of the league, may have, if not for a strange twist of fate, instead belonged to the Cleveland Browns.
It's an amazing story I think more football fans should know. You guys are the martyrs of the NFL.
Every true fan of football should also find it in them to be a Cleveland Browns fan as well.
Best of luck in the rebuilding of your football team.
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No one gave New England a chance in the 2002 Superbowl and despite Brady's final drive he had a very mediocre game.
(16/27 145 1/0)
Belichick played 6 db's most of the time and shut down the "greatest show on turf".
People like to say the Ravens and Bucs were the last two team that won with defense but they always fail to mention the Pats also.
The Patriots kept winning with their slow no- name defense with unorthodox defensive schemes and Belichick became known as the defensive genius.
Then Mangini spilled the beans and revealed that the Patriots were actually cheating and they haven't won since.
It's hard to think about what could have been.
Mike Lombardi has said before that Ray Lewis was basically locked as their pick in 95'.
Apparently Modell was in love with Lawrence Phillips but Ozzie Newsome finally convinced him that Ogden was the better choice.
That all star staff + Ray Lewis,Ogden the Browns would of became a powerhouse combination of the Ravens and Patriots had they never moved.
Oh well that's Cleveland for you.
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Pretty sure you can just watch it in segments on nfl networks site.
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I thought it was a great documentary, kind of relates to how I became a Browns fan. In '94 while visiting from the UK I was invited to an interview at the Cleveland Clinic at the insistence of a former classmate who was doing his residency there. During the interview the Browns was mentioned by the interviewer (even though I knew nothing about "American Football")and I remember sitting in the Modell Atrium on the ground floor in the cardiology wing. Three years later I took the position at the Cleveland Clinic and noticed the Modell sign in the atrium had been ripped off (literally, the supporting wires and nails were still sticking out of the wall). I learnt the team had moved but was overjoyed when the city got the franchise back and have been supporting the Browns ever since even though I no longer live in Cleveland.
Since the return this has been the best assembly of talent I've seen and I think with a good coach (if Shurmur ever becomes one) this team has the foundation for a superbowl. The Ravens and Steelers' best days are over, the future of the AFC North is in the Browns, may not see it this season but that's what I believe.
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Just watched it, depressing as shit. Fuck Modell.
And fuck Mike Holmgren for firing Mangini.
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One of the biggest things that I thought about during this documentary is that we need to stop this 2 years and fired shit. Ya ok go ahead and fire Shurmer so our new owner can get the guy he want in but after that stop. Billy boy didn't do shit in Cleveland his first 3 years then turned it on. He did the same in NE. Sit tight and hunker down. Remember how two years ago everyone was saying our coaches should turn the team around in 1 or 2 seasons because other teams were doing it in that span of time (Chiefs and Bucs). Look at those teams now. We need long term success, not 1 year wonders.
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Bill Belichick was a failure before Tom Brady,and will be a Failure after him...Nuff said...I still think hes an asshole.
Our first Superbowl win here in New England came when Brady was nothing more than a rookie game manager. He wasn't Tom Brady `the legend,` the elite passer, the dreaded Tom Brady who torches and humiliates defenses through the air with 450 yards and 6 touchdown passes. Now Tom Brady is something of a folk hero here in Massachusetts, he's the pride and joy of sports in our area, but in 2001, when Bledsoe first went down, that wasn't the case.
The Patriots team that shocked the world and defied the naysayers in 2001 was not the elite Tom Brady lead offensive team that shattered records on the way to their 18-0 Superbowl appearance or went to the Superbowl last year on the back of arguably the greatest quarterback ever and Belichick's revolutionary TE attack. It was the "blue collar, hard nosed" very physical defensive team that Belichick had in mind for Cleveland. Tom Brady was a very lucky break for us, coming in the 6th round, but the 2001 Superbowl was more Belichick's baby than it was Brady's.
I registered on this forum after watching A Football Life: Cleveland '95.
I was 15 years old at the time and while I watched the NFL religiously with my friends, I learned a lot from this I didn't previously know.
I didn't realize the extent to which that abomination, the Baltimore Ravens, are essentially Belichick's bastard child, and that the success of their entire organization basically came through him from his time spent in Cleveland.
And while this isn't meant at all to rub salt in your wounds, it seems pretty clear that all of the football success that we've enjoyed here in New England, the Dynasty, the Superbowls, the lasting legacy of success that will now carry us forward even after Brady and Belichick one day retire, putting us with the great NFL organizations of the league, may have, if not for a strange twist of fate, instead belonged to the Cleveland Browns.
It's an amazing story I think more football fans should know. You guys are the martyrs of the NFL.
Every true fan of football should also find it in them to be a Cleveland Browns fan as well.
Best of luck in the rebuilding of your football team.
Our first Superbowl win here in New England came when Brady was nothing more than a rookie game manager. He wasn't Tom Brady `the legend,` the elite passer, the dreaded Tom Brady who torches and humiliates defenses through the air with 450 yards and 6 touchdown passes. Now Tom Brady is something of a folk hero here in Massachusetts, he's the pride and joy of sports in our area, but in 2001, when Bledsoe first went down, that wasn't the case.
The Patriots team that shocked the world and defied the naysayers in 2001 was not the elite Tom Brady lead offensive team that shattered records on the way to their 18-0 Superbowl appearance or went to the Superbowl last year on the back of arguably the greatest quarterback ever and Belichick's revolutionary TE attack. It was the "blue collar, hard nosed" very physical defensive team that Belichick had in mind for Cleveland. Tom Brady was a very lucky break for us, coming in the 6th round, but the 2001 Superbowl was more Belichick's baby than it was Brady's.
I registered on this forum after watching A Football Life: Cleveland '95.
I was 15 years old at the time and while I watched the NFL religiously with my friends, I learned a lot from this I didn't previously know.
I didn't realize the extent to which that abomination, the Baltimore Ravens, are essentially Belichick's bastard child, and that the success of their entire organization basically came through him from his time spent in Cleveland.
And while this isn't meant at all to rub salt in your wounds, it seems pretty clear that all of the football success that we've enjoyed here in New England, the Dynasty, the Superbowls, the lasting legacy of success that will now carry us forward even after Brady and Belichick one day retire, putting us with the great NFL organizations of the league, may have, if not for a strange twist of fate, instead belonged to the Cleveland Browns.
It's an amazing story I think more football fans should know. You guys are the martyrs of the NFL.
Every true fan of football should also find it in them to be a Cleveland Browns fan as well.
Best of luck in the rebuilding of your football team.
Martyrs is a great way to put it. We sit here and watch Belichick in New England, and Ozzy Newsome in Baltimore continue to build winning organizations, while we in Cleveland continue to think about "what could have been" and now deal with constant "rebuilding" and excuses along with constant losing! Yeah, Cleveland and it's loyal fans were left holding the bag! I wonder what we did here to piss off the football Gods! We can only hope that the new owner can right this thing, and I have to believe that he will, because nobody would spend 1 billion dollars to allow this shit to continue!
I'm by no means flaming you, but my advice would be enjoy what you have with your football team, because you never know when it will end! And not in the sense of the Patriots picking up and leaving town, but more like the dynasty ending. Good luck, and thanks for the well wishes.
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