Miller
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That demands reform to me
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My mother is 87 and can barely walk. She has almost 24 hour care from aides who attend to her needs. Most of the time when I go there in the early morning the aide is sleeping on the couch. One is pregnant, not married, and collecting welfare and food stamps (EBT). She gets the money from my brother (younger liberal asshole) under the table. Is this fair? She is not reporting the income. Not paying income tax nor social security. Getting full time pay with no penalties. But she greedily sucks up the government programs, oh yea. And can you imagine how many are doing exactly the same thing? And who pays for it? The honest Joe Blow who works to support his family and pays his taxes.
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Those people living on the dole, are the dem base.
Heckbunerk loves them.
Maybe heckbunker is one of them, used to be one of them....
or just really appreciates their locked in votes for the dems no matter what.....
He's a sick puppy, heckbunker is. Can't be honest about any issue ever
brought up on this board.
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I frankly don't give a damn about all your anecdotal evidence, because that's the only argument you people have against it. There's no statistical evidence of widespread welfare fraud. And while you can point out a couple million in fines for welfare fraud from last year, take a look at what fraction that accounts for of the total amount of welfare recipients.
Protip 1: You won't like the numbers.
Okay, now take a look at how that number stacks up against our total deficit, and then tell me that cutting welfare is an effective way of getting us back in the black.
Protip 2: You won't like these numbers either.
You're going to tell me that widespread welfare fraud is draining the nation's pockets? Well, my friends, the onus is on you to show me evidence of that claim.
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@vaportrail said:
You're going to tell me that widespread welfare fraud is draining the nation's pockets? Well, my friends, the onus is on you to show me evidence of that claim.
No it isn't.
But like a cigarette tax or property tax or alcohol tax It doesn't take much to figure out that if it will benefit a non drinker, non smoker who doesn't own a house it's a pretty easy vote to cast.
As I see it the fact that it's so easy for people to get handouts who don't really really need them places a burden on the people who actually do.
Unfortunately anyone who proposes tightening that up even if it means making things a little easier for the truly disadvantaged will be immediately demagogued and painted as cruel by people like, well you and Heck.
And how do you stop or even slow that growth?
Look across the ocean.
No we are not Europe we are not Greece.
But they weren't always like this either, it's the frog in the pot.
You see what happens when the budget forces these countries to cut back even a little.
Riots in the streets.
And no I don't think it can really be reversed.
WSS
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The point Vapor is that it is illegal and immoral to take something you're not entitled to. I guess they don't teach common sense.
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Okay, so your argument is
"because welfare, therefore Greece"
Like I said, show me some numbers that support that.
And let's take Cysko's example, above. Those people who are together but don't get married are entitled to their benefits, and miss out on the tax breaks for married couples.
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Okay, so your argument is
"because welfare, therefore Greece"
Like I said, show me some numbers that support that.
And let's take Cysko's example, above. Those people who are together but don't get married are entitled to their benefits, and miss out on the tax breaks for married couples.
Okay, so your argument is
"because welfare, therefore Greece"
Like I said, show me some numbers that support that.
And let's take Cysko's example, above. Those people who are together but don't get married are entitled to their benefits, and miss out on the tax breaks for married couples.
It's not close to the same amount they rake in in food stamps. Food is expensive when you have to feed a household and don't exist off fast food
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I still don't really see your point.
So, if two people live together, and one of them is on food stamps, it's immoral if they don't get married?
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Yes because their combined income as a married couple would make them ineligible for food stamps.
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Let's not pretend it's simply welfare, it isn't.
You should be able to count up all the extra programs benefits handouts etcetera since World War Two.
You can use that rate of increase and multiply it over the next 60 years.
And that, I believe, would be very generous to you liberals.
We can't afford what were spending now, how do you think it will be when it doubles? Triples?
And exactly where do any of you see the big upcoming cuts that would make a difference?
WSS
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But they get the best of both worlds. Both incomes and food stamps. Fraud. Nobody looked at their housing situation. Just the woman's gross income. What's the incentive to do the right thing?
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You guys should try to answer Vapor's question because then you'll see the point some of us have been trying to make in here for months/years: that for guys like you, who make up the bulk of the Republican Party, the question isn't how to right the fiscal ship and get this country on a more sustainable path. Because you never deal with the issues that are relevant to that subject. You are almost entirely - and I mean entirely - focused on the idea that lazy minorities are taking handouts they don't deserve.
Really, that's your political philosophy: I don't like it when lazy people cheat the system so they can not work. That's it. This is 70%-80% of what you complain about. Even though it's .2% of what the fiscal problem is.
It doesn't matter to you that welfare or food stamp fraud doesn't add up to a whole lot, even when taking those budgets into consideration. It doesn't matter to you that the amount of money wasted on fraud is an irrelevant and infinitesimal contributor to our actual deficit problems. It doesn't matter to you that the main cause of increased food stamp use is simply the recession and its after effects. It doesn't matter to you that the "takers" of government money aren't simply the poor lazy minorities you obsess about, but more and more it's the middle class and the wealthy who take advantage of tax deductions, home mortgage deductions, the growing elderly population, veterans, etc.
When people talk about the "party of white resentment" this is exactly what they're referring to: the people- you guys - who can't focus on anything other than your anecdotal stories of some lazy good-for-nothing who is grifting while you work.
Start spending some time on what actually matters. The game in the real world is tax code reform, entitlement reform, figuring out ways to control health care costs, and lowering military spending. That's the game. You can either get in it, or you can stand on the sidelines and bitch about black welfare queens, but you can't do both.
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Well, heck, you'll see that when I stated that the onus was on them to show evidence that welfare fraud was widespread, Steve simply answered.
No it isn't.
So there.
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I'm not even talking about minorities. I'm talking about caucasians I personally know, call that anecdotal if you want, but fraud is happening. By whites right here in Ohio. How widespread is it? I couldn't say. But its widespread enough to demand reform.
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You made a claim that welfare fraud wasn't a huge bite out of the GDP.( or something akin to that)
I agreed using the words:
No it isn't.
So I doubt you were able to comprehend the rest.
WSS
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You're going to tell me that widespread welfare fraud is draining the nation's pockets?
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Id say it causes a lot of bitter resentment. What's my incentive not to divorce my wife and still live together so she can claim she's poor enough to get an ebt card to pay for food? That way I could have hundreds of extra dollars a month to spend on myself.
Only because I'm too proud to take government handouts? Thats abuse, my friends, no matter what kind if spin you try to put on it.
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Steve, check what you quoted in your earlier post, I assumed your "no it isn't" was to the last part. That there would be our miscommunication.
Cysko, if it's bugging you, go report it then! Get your friends audited if you think it's that big of a problem.
In 2009, there was 2.9 billion dollars of questioned allocation of funding. Of that 2.9b, about 25m was taken back, 3m in fines were assessed, and another 25m through settlements. That's $53 million. What percent of 2.9 billion dollars is 53 million?
(53*10^6)/(2.9*10^9)*(10^2)
There, the math is all done for you, just C&P that into google to find out how big of a problem this is.
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I wasn't clear enough.
But again, it's not welfare that's turning us into Europe.
We have all sorts of social programs for all sorts of Citizens growing and growing and growing.
And it's getting harder and harder to pay for them even now.
I don't think we'll be able to tax the rich enough to keep them solvent as they continue to skyrocket.
Then we will be forced kicking and screaming into real austerity measures.
WSS
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