Israel Offed A Military Chief Of Hamas

[Westside Steve]

At least you guys are in good company.

WSS

[Kosar_For_President]

@alo said:

Edit: Removed the image and replaced it with something more appropriate.

WTF?

[VaporTrail]

Steve, do you really consider Israel the only civilized nation in the area?

[Westside Steve]

@vaportrail said:

Steve, do you really consider Israel the only civilized nation in the area?

By and large, yes.

Oh I understand that Qatar the United Arab Emirate Jordan and at 1 time Lebanon arent exactly hell holes.

But Syria Saudi Arabia Iraq Iran Egypt Libya on and on.....

WSS

[VaporTrail]

@westside-steve said:

By and large, yes.

Oh I understand that Qatar the United Arab Emirate Jordan and at 1 time Lebanon arent exactly hell holes.

But Syria Saudi Arabia Iraq Iran Egypt Libya on and on.....

WSS

Bunching all of those countries together really shows that you don't have the slightest clue what's going on over there.

[Alo]

Calling whole groups of people uncivilized is a very 19th century thing to do, but it's the older cousin of a sentiment shared by many Israelis who oppose the continued occupation of the West Bank: why should the kid of a tech executive in Tel Aviv be forced to raid homes in the middle of the night in Tulkarem or the keep the whole city of Hebron under lockdown because the Israeli settlers there are batshit insane? Those actions make young Israelis do things a "civilized" person wouldn't normally engage in.

Unfortunately, that's a problem unlikely to be resolved anytime soon because of the mess in Gaza.

[DieHardBrownsFan]

@vaportrail said:

Bunching all of those countries together really shows that you don't have the slightest clue what's going on over there.

Please advise me oh wise one, what is going on there? I've been asking myself that for the past 40 years.

[Westside Steve]

No doubt you'll feel the same if Cherokee and Latinos start shelling Cleveland.

I think it's foolish to believe that turning over Gaza and the West Bank will bring peace and happiness.

WSS

[VaporTrail]

Iran showing fastest scientific growth of any country

http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn18546-iran-showing-fastest-scientific-growth-of-any-country.html

Iran is teaching evolution in its schools

http://www.fasebj.org/content/20/13/2183.full

Iran's fertility rate is only slightly above ours!

http://www.mnforsustain.org/iran_model_of_reducing_fertility.htm

Over half of Iran's college students are female

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/5359672.stm

Let's not forget how Iran invaded our sovereign neighbor, creating unrest in the area.

Let's not forget how Iran flies drones over our beaches.

Let's not forget how Iran set up military bases all over the western hemisphere.

Let's not forget that Iran's military budget is bigger than the next 12 countries combined.

One of these is Salt Lake City, the other one is Tehran. Just look at all those dirty heathens!

And it doesn't even matter that I've posted any of this, because it won't change your mind. You think they're an uncivilized third world country because you apparently believe the bullshit spin that mainstream media puts on the entire Middle East. It's really a shame that you guys are beyond accepting evidence because of the strained relationship we've had with this country in the past.

[Westside Steve]

So why does Obama want to keep them from having a nuclear weapon?

WSS

[DieHardBrownsFan]

Why would any of that change my mind? They still stone people to death for adultery. They hang people for crimes we would get 30 days in jail for. So what is your point?

[VaporTrail]

@westside-steve said:

So why does Obama want to keep them from having a nuclear weapon?

WSS

To maintain the status quo in the region. Iran's gain of influence is at ours and Israel's expense. Like I said before, I think that us losing influence in that region is inevitable. It's a fight we can't win, and if they get nukes, Israel is forced to back off and act like everyone else.

[Westside Steve]

So, to be clear you are fine with Iran having nuclear weapons? Is that correct?

WSS

[VaporTrail]

Yes, because they're ultimately going to get them regardless of US intervention. The less pissed they are at us when they get them, the better. Everyone in the military knows that Iran is going to be keeping a closer eye on their nukes than everyone else because they have the most to lose if a rogue nuke goes off somewhere in the world.

[Alo]

Iran's got enemies other than the US & Israel who'll freak out if they get nukes. I bet Saudi Arabia would want to go nuclear, a very bad idea for a gov't that could get toppled by crazies.

If Pakistan, Iran, and Saudia Arabia all have nukes...I don't particularly like our odds of the shit never hitting the fan.

[VaporTrail]

In the grand scheme of things, all those countries will eventually be nuclear capable. Nuclear technology has only been around for 65 years. That's nothing. Nothing. You really think the number of countries with nukes is going to remain at 10 or so a hundred years from now? No.

One of two things will happen:

A - Israel quits acting like the spoiled brat in the region, and this would force both sides to talk to each other, or at the very least respect each other out of mutual fear. Imagine that! It'll be like a smaller Cold War.

If this happens, then it's going to result in a fuck ton of nuclear research, the scale of which has never been seen. It might be what gets us off of fossil fuels.

B - Maybe the whole region will get glassed, and we won't have to worry about which Retarded side to support anymore. On the plus side, the nuclear winter ends global warming and overpopulation; 2 birds, 1 stone.

If the US manages to stay out of the nuclear exchange, I'm happy with either outcome. Plus, we're going to be energy independent in 20 years, so there's no reason to keep appeasing any of the idiots in charge over there.

[VaporTrail]

@diehardbrownsfan said:

Why would any of that change my mind? They still stone people to death for adultery. They hang people for crimes we would get 30 days in jail for. So what is your point?

Yeah, and we put marijuana users in federal fuckmeintheass prison, while the assholes in the government and on wall street that were in large part responsible for the housing bubble get severance pay. Iran is clearly much worse in that regard than the US, but we still have our own issues. The problem with Iran is the Islamic fundamentalism, but guess what, the same secularization that you bitch about here is also going on over there! Women are being empowered over there, and I'll go ahead and predict that in my lifetime, there's going to be a 19th amendment-like shakedown in the Middle Eastern countries because you can't suppress the female half of your population when they're educated. With higher education comes less religiosity. But no, you won't get any of that because all the MSM wants to show are the zealots that are burning American flags.

Lastly, I just saw Argo. If you haven't seen it yet, go fucking watch it now, god dammit. I thought it was better than Lincoln.

[Alo]

Given my remedial math & science skills, I'm not really in a position to argue about where the tech's heading, but I do know that past predictions regarding the inevitability of nuke-seeking have proven inaccurate.

Realists in the early 90's predicted that the absence of a shared Soviet threat would lead to a power struggle in W. Europe in which Germany would seek to reduce its relative weakness by developing nuclear weapons. John Mearsheimer argued that the US should just hand over nukes to Germany because a conflict over their program otherwise was inevitable.

Ultimately, that prediction proved to be kinda crazy because the region had changed so much since the years when Britain, France, and Germany bombed the shit out of each other. Germany didn't "need" nukes, which would have made spending so much dough on 'em irrational.

With that in mind, it seems like the best course of action would be a short-term plan to strongly discourage Iran from developing nukes, coupled with a long-term strategy to eliminate their desire to acquire them: either by changing the political dynamics in the region or the economics of it. Working towards Mideast peace could help with the former, depriving them of all that oil money could help achieve the latter.

Or the Iranian people could do us a solid and rage against their own regime, this time successfully.

[Westside Steve]

I think that's a fair assessment Alol.

And at least you understand what I mean by civilized.

Keep these crazy f****** from having a Bomb until the very last chance.

As far as actions we could take to make the region more peaceful? I'm thinking that's probably wishful thinking. I certainly don't think that throwing Israel under the bus will be very helpful. I think the Palestinian ordeal is nothing but an excuse. Uncivilized elements will just find different reasons for there, well, incivility.

What actually would ease the tension is if we can get the Lollipop Guild to quit blocking US energy production. The closer we get to energy independence the better. Of course China will still want oil so the Middle East will continue to be in same but for our part will have a better hand to play.

Keep in mind that it's been a long long time since the world has had a bench clearing brawl. Sooner or later everybody will have nuclear weapons. World War 3 will be no Night at the Opera.

No offense to you younger guys or your kids but I'm hoping we can kick that can down the road for 30 or so years.

WSS

[VaporTrail]

I know that there are many Iranians that don't like the regime, but are there enough of them? At this time, I would have to say no. Seems like the Arab uprisings have all sort of cooled down except for Syria.