Nfl Rumors: Banner To “Clean House” As Soon As Season Ends
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Zombo said:
I think he should completely clean house.
Get Your people in from the start.
Fans, get used to Heckert being gone. He wasn't that great.
Dawson and Cribbs will probably never be Browns again either. I love those guys ... but it's over.
It's going to be a complete new regime, let's hope it ends the 4-12/5-11 nightmare that has become the Cleveland Browns.
Zombo
I may be crazy, but now that Art Modell is dead, I think we start to ascend. The guy fired Paul Brown, and we've been well below .500 ever since. Hell, we haven't even hired an experienced NFL coach since 1963.
Let's hope Haslam gets it right. If any fan base "deserves" a winner, it's us. This season made me sick, with Shurmer playing so damn conservative, and perhaps blowing the 22nd pick.
The roster doesn't need a complete overhaul, we're missing speed on defense and an impact LB. Make LB a priority, and address the guards so we can run block. Get a high energy coach that can teach...sounds easy, we'll see.
I'm sick of seeing many teams go from 4-12 to 10-6, and not us. We're long overdue. I believe we have the NFC North & AFC East next year, so it won't be easy.
I may be crazy, but now that Art Modell is dead, I think we start to ascend. The guy fired Paul Brown, and we've been well below .500 ever since.
I would have to check, but I do not believe that is true at all.
Hell, we haven't even hired an experienced NFL coach since 1963.
Yes, both Nick Skorich and Eric Mangini were experienced HCs.
Let's hope Haslam gets it right. If any fan base "deserves" a winner, it's us. This season made me sick, with Shurmer playing so damn conservative, and perhaps blowing the 22nd pick.
The roster doesn't need a complete overhaul, we're missing speed on defense and an impact LB. Make LB a priority, and address the guards so we can run block. Get a high energy coach that can teach...sounds easy, we'll see.
Agree
I'm sick of seeing many teams go from 4-12 to 10-6, and not us. We're long overdue. I believe we have the NFC North & AFC East next year, so it won't be easy.
Agree...though in 2007 the Browns did go from like 4-12 to 10-6 no?
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Brad Seely, our old Special Teams coach, been doing Assistant HC at 49ers aswell as when he was here for a year, and he certainly seems to know how to put together special team units, so might be worth the gamble on him being just as good with running the team overall, just my little input to an outside bet for our new HC.
Both Bill Cowher and Gunther Cunningham went from being a special teams coaches to HCs, so the move is not unprecedented. In Cowher's case, it was a success. Not so much with Cunningham.
Both Bill Cowher and Gunther Cunningham went from being a special teams coaches to HCs, so the move is not unprecedented. In Cowher's case, it was a success. Not so much with Cunningham.
Gunther was a DC.
Cowher started as a ST but became a DC then a HC.
The only ST coaches I remember becoming a HC was the disaster that was Frank Ganz in KC, and the success that is John Harbaugh in Baltimore.
I like Seely a lot.
Zombo
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Both Bill Cowher and Gunther Cunningham went from being a special teams coaches to HCs, so the move is not unprecedented. In Cowher's case, it was a success. Not so much with Cunningham.
Gunther was a DC.
Cowher started as a ST but became a DC then a HC.
The only ST coaches I remember becoming a HC was the disaster that was Frank Ganz in KC, and the success that is John Harbaugh in Baltimore.
I like Seely a lot.
Zombo
Zombo said:
Gunther was a DC.
Cowher started as a ST but became a DC then a HC.
The only ST coaches I remember becoming a HC was the disaster that was Frank Ganz in KC, and the success that is John Harbaugh in Baltimore.
I like Seely a lot.
Zombo
I think I was confusing Ganz and Cunningham....I think they both were with KC, no?
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Gipper, yes I forgot about Mangini, and didn't realize about Nick Skorich coaching the Eagels. Lol, I forgot I was writing in response to the forum historian.
According to profootballreference.com, Paul Brown's record as coach of the Browns was 158-48-8. Our all-time franchise mark of 494-420-13 means that since 1964, our record is 336-372-5.
78-159 since 1995, ouch.
2007 was a great season, a fun season, where we won 7 out of 8 home games- it was a great time going to the games. Nowadays, the best part of going seems to be the pregame tailgates.
Karlis Missed -
I think he should completely clean house.
Get Your people in from the start.
Fans, get used to Heckert being gone. He wasn't that great.
Dawson and Cribbs will probably never be Browns again either. I love those guys ... but it's over.
It's going to be a complete new regime, let's hope it ends the 4-12/5-11 nightmare that has become the Cleveland Browns.
Zombo
Zombo said:
I think he should completely clean house.
Get Your people in from the start.
Fans, get used to Heckert being gone. He wasn't that great.
Dawson and Cribbs will probably never be Browns again either. I love those guys ... but it's over.
It's going to be a complete new regime, let's hope it ends the 4-12/5-11 nightmare that has become the Cleveland Browns.
Zombo
I'm fine with a housecleaning- just please no Mike Lombardi, the guy has been a epic FAIL anywhere he's been GM. Cribbs can leave as we have Benjamin. I would like to see Dawson finish his career as a Brown. Banner may decide Phil is overpaid, and Dawson (apparently) doesn't want to be in Cleveland either.
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Gipper, yes I forgot about Mangini, and didn't realize about Nick Skorich coaching the Eagels. Lol, I forgot I was writing in response to the forum historian.
According to profootballreference.com, Paul Brown's record as coach of the Browns was 158-48-8. Our all-time franchise mark of 494-420-13 means that since 1964, our record is 336-372-5.
78-159 since 1995, ouch.
2007 was a great season, a fun season, where we won 7 out of 8 home games- it was a great time going to the games. Nowadays, the best part of going seems to be the pregame tailgates.
Gipper, yes I forgot about Mangini, and didn't realize about Nick Skorich coaching the Eagels. Lol, I forgot I was writing in response to the forum historian.
According to profootballreference.com, Paul Brown's record as coach of the Browns was 158-48-8. Our all-time franchise mark of 494-420-13 means that since 1964, our record is 336-372-5.
78-159 since 1995, ouch.
2007 was a great season, a fun season, where we won 7 out of 8 home games- it was a great time going to the games. Nowadays, the best part of going seems to be the pregame tailgates.
I guess I have underestimated the amount of losing that has gone on the last decade such that it would have pushed the Browns record down so badly since PB left.
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Weeden had a decent rookie year. People need to relax. He will be good. As for Heckert, I have not heard a single name of a candidate that has worked as a GM with a comparable let alone better record of drafting. I am not sure why anyone would want to trade a proven talent evaluator for some unknown personnel director. Furthermore, Banner and Haslam have said that they are not going to rush into a decision and have not yet came to a final evaluation. I am not saying the Heckert and Shurmur's jobs are safe, but why don't people take them at their word until they have reason to do otherwise? Way too much unfounded speculation.
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Weeden was hurt in having a "outdated" WCO that didn't mix in Coryell vertical attack principles into the design. When Holmgren went to Seattle, he didn't run a straight up WCO with Hassle at all. I suspect that is what Mike was thinking about the Weeden selection and was basically advice for Pat.
Everything was horizontal and up front. I don't even have a problem throwing short, but the type of short throws were all the same. Mix some vertical, even short vertical routes into the mix and defenses would have had to play honest and actually design against it.
Weeden's biggest strengths are his velocity and anticipation. Shurmur's scheme didn't really take those strengths and use them. Shurm needs a Drew Brees type at min who can adjust on the run and draw a defense in with that type of old system.
That is why I can't be to down on Weeden. Really, I think you switch Luck/Weeden, you could argue both guy would have had better years, with Indy challenging for the division, Shurmur holding on. Weeden would have been in his element with Arians vertical offense and Luck would have been a better fit for Pat's "ways". So Luck "lucks" out even though he has crappy numbers because of the team and coach he played for. While Weeden takes it on the chin with this bad fit of a system.
Sounds like Banner is leaning toward the "strong coach" model. Lombardi will be brought as director of player personal and the coach will have final say and authority over the 53 man. Little surprise, I guess. That means everything is on the coaching decision. They have got to find the right guy for the job, or it is another painful pointless rebuilding.
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i agree with a lot of what people are saying. i myself wouldn't let heckert go. and although people might crucify me for this who are they going to bring in as a HC that isn't some old retread? saban would be good but he failed at this level once already. chip kelly? no thanks. are they seriously going to look at people like a special teams coach or a cam cameron? puke. i'd rather keep things intact next year just to let all the floaters rise to the top and the real shit sink.
this is what really disturbs me about this new regime. i'm sold 1000% on haslam, no doubt. BUT banner looks like an evil rat. i don't trust him at all. i know that doesn't mean squadoosh but i felt the same way about holmgren and how did that work out? haslam needs to not rely on everything banner says. lomabardi would be a huge mistake. banner's ties to philly are brain numbing and the talk of andy reid coming here are giving me irrital bowl syndrome. sure his record as head coach are better than shurms but his talent evaluation and going all-in on vick has sealed his fate. he should take a year off, reevaluate life and if they wanted him in 2014 i'd be down.
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Great history lesson by KGL! and a lot of valid observations. Don't agree JT was a wasted pick, but has performed at a decent level. As for trading him, totally agree. Move him on or before draft day, has to be worth a 2nd or better at the least. If we can do that, we pick best available at our greatest needs. (minus qb, fa will be better than this class. Hell I would move Ward as well. Great in run support, but a liability in the passing game, also injury prone. Might be worth a extra 2nd rounder or 3rd. Guess will see how things start to unfold by end of Feb.
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Great history lesson by KGL! and a lot of valid observations. Don't agree JT was a wasted pick, but has performed at a decent level. As for trading him, totally agree. Move him on or before draft day, has to be worth a 2nd or better at the least. If we can do that, we pick best available at our greatest needs. (minus qb, fa will be better than this class. Hell I would move Ward as well. Great in run support, but a liability in the passing game, also injury prone. Might be worth a extra 2nd rounder or 3rd. Guess will see how things start to unfold by end of Feb.
As for trading him, totally agree. Move him on or before draft day, has to be worth a 2nd or better at the least. If we can do that, we pick best available at our greatest needs. Hell I would move Ward as well. Great in run support, but a liability in the passing game, also injury prone. Might be worth a extra 2nd rounder or 3rd.
yeah you know what our greatest positions of need will be if we trade thomas and ward?
a Left Tackle and a Safety.
great thinking!
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As for trading him, totally agree. Move him on or before draft day, has to be worth a 2nd or better at the least. If we can do that, we pick best available at our greatest needs. Hell I would move Ward as well. Great in run support, but a liability in the passing game, also injury prone. Might be worth a extra 2nd rounder or 3rd.
yeah you know what our greatest positions of need will be if we trade thomas and ward?
a Left Tackle and a Safety.
great thinking!
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Even calling Winslow a "wasted pick" is pushing it. Even Gerard Warren produced..........at a 3rd round level.
Many picks aren't wasted, but misdefined.
Talent pickups are only half the problem to fix with the Browns. The other half is getting a real good coach. Butch Davis was the only "good" coach we had and that was before the 2003 offseason backlash when he lost the lockerroom which led toward his fall.
The whispers I am hearing is Josh McDaniels has all but the job wrapped up and Lombardi will be his personal director. But that is probably for another thread..................
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Even calling Winslow a "wasted pick" is pushing it. Even Gerard Warren produced..........at a 3rd round level.
Many picks aren't wasted, but misdefined.
Talent pickups are only half the problem to fix with the Browns. The other half is getting a real good coach. Butch Davis was the only "good" coach we had and that was before the 2003 offseason backlash when he lost the lockerroom which led toward his fall.
The whispers I am hearing is Josh McDaniels has all but the job wrapped up and Lombardi will be his personal director. But that is probably for another thread..................
Even calling Winslow a "wasted pick" is pushing it. Even Gerard Warren produced..........at a 3rd round level.
Many picks aren't wasted, but misdefined.
Talent pickups are only half the problem to fix with the Browns. The other half is getting a real good coach. Butch Davis was the only "good" coach we had and that was before the 2003 offseason backlash when he lost the lockerroom which led toward his fall.
The whispers I am hearing is Josh McDaniels has all but the job wrapped up and Lombardi will be his personal director. But that is probably for another thread..................
Honestly, I wouldn't mind having Josh McDaniels here. The Browns need a reimagination. The image needs to be revamped.
I say go with McDaniels, a fiery young coach who pisses people off.
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i don't mind the idea of mcdaniels being here but some of the biggest busts personnel-wise were made by lombardi.
and mcdaniels also has ties to tebow.
no fuggin way.
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Even calling Winslow a "wasted pick" is pushing it. Even Gerard Warren produced..........at a 3rd round level.
Many picks aren't wasted, but misdefined.
Talent pickups are only half the problem to fix with the Browns. The other half is getting a real good coach. Butch Davis was the only "good" coach we had and that was before the 2003 offseason backlash when he lost the lockerroom which led toward his fall.
The whispers I am hearing is Josh McDaniels has all but the job wrapped up and Lombardi will be his personal director. But that is probably for another thread..................
Even calling Winslow a "wasted pick" is pushing it. Even Gerard Warren produced..........at a 3rd round level.
Many picks aren't wasted, but misdefined.
Talent pickups are only half the problem to fix with the Browns. The other half is getting a real good coach. Butch Davis was the only "good" coach we had and that was before the 2003 offseason backlash when he lost the lockerroom which led toward his fall.
The whispers I am hearing is Josh McDaniels has all but the job wrapped up and Lombardi will be his personal director. But that is probably for another thread..................
Mcdaniels was horrible at drafting when he had the power in Denver. No way do i want him drafting our players. As a head coach i do like him but he needs a solid GM to work with and that GM is not Lombardi. Id say the best scenario is to Mcdaniels calling the plays and the head coach ala Sean Payton and Heckert staying on as GM with power of the roster. Below is Mcdaniels drafts in 09 10. If you compare it to Heckerts two drafts its not even close.
2009 Draft:
1/12 Knowshon Moreno
1/18 Robert Ayers
2/37 Alphonso Smith
2/48 Darcel McBath
2/64 Richard Quinn
4/114 David Bruton
4/132 Seth Olsen
5/141 Kenny McKinley
6/174 Brandstater
7/225 Blake Schlueter
2010 Draft:
1/22 Demaryius Thomas
1/25 Tim Tebow
2/45 Zane Beadles
3/80 J.D. Walton
3/87 Eric Decker
5/187 Perrish Cox
6/183 Eric Olsen
7/225 Syd'Quan Thompson
7/232 Jammie Kirlew
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As for trading him, totally agree. Move him on or before draft day, has to be worth a 2nd or better at the least. If we can do that, we pick best available at our greatest needs. Hell I would move Ward as well. Great in run support, but a liability in the passing game, also injury prone. Might be worth a extra 2nd rounder or 3rd.
yeah you know what our greatest positions of need will be if we trade thomas and ward?
a Left Tackle and a Safety.
great thinking!
yeah you know what our greatest positions of need will be if we trade thomas and ward?
a Left Tackle and a Safety.
great thinking!
Exactly. And this is where I disagree with Ghoolie. Joe Thomas is to left tackles as Peyton Manning is to quarterbacks. He's arguably the best in the business at his position, neutralizes the best blind side pass rushers, and makes it look easy in the process.
So sure, let's trade away Joe- and draft a qb who has eyes in the back of his head. Maybe it would be enlightening if I posted a list of teams with substandard LTs, and correlate that with the number of games their qbs have missed.
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Even calling Winslow a "wasted pick" is pushing it. Even Gerard Warren produced..........at a 3rd round level.
Many picks aren't wasted, but misdefined.
Talent pickups are only half the problem to fix with the Browns. The other half is getting a real good coach. Butch Davis was the only "good" coach we had and that was before the 2003 offseason backlash when he lost the lockerroom which led toward his fall.
The whispers I am hearing is Josh McDaniels has all but the job wrapped up and Lombardi will be his personal director. But that is probably for another thread..................
Mcdaniels was horrible at drafting when he had the power in Denver. No way do i want him drafting our players. As a head coach i do like him but he needs a solid GM to work with and that GM is not Lombardi. Id say the best scenario is to Mcdaniels calling the plays and the head coach ala Sean Payton and Heckert staying on as GM with power of the roster. Below is Mcdaniels drafts in 09 10. If you compare it to Heckerts two drafts its not even close.
2009 Draft:
1/12 Knowshon Moreno
1/18 Robert Ayers
2/37 Alphonso Smith
2/48 Darcel McBath
2/64 Richard Quinn
4/114 David Bruton
4/132 Seth Olsen
5/141 Kenny McKinley
6/174 Brandstater
7/225 Blake Schlueter
2010 Draft:
1/22 Demaryius Thomas
1/25 Tim Tebow
2/45 Zane Beadles
3/80 J.D. Walton
3/87 Eric Decker
5/187 Perrish Cox
6/183 Eric Olsen
7/225 Syd'Quan Thompson
7/232 Jammie Kirlew
Mcdaniels was horrible at drafting when he had the power in Denver. No way do i want him drafting our players. As a head coach i do like him but he needs a solid GM to work with and that GM is not Lombardi. Id say the best scenario is to Mcdaniels calling the plays and the head coach ala Sean Payton and Heckert staying on as GM with power of the roster. Below is Mcdaniels drafts in 09 10. If you compare it to Heckerts two drafts its not even close.
2009 Draft:
1/12 Knowshon Moreno
1/18 Robert Ayers
2/37 Alphonso Smith
2/48 Darcel McBath
2/64 Richard Quinn
4/114 David Bruton
4/132 Seth Olsen
5/141 Kenny McKinley
6/174 Brandstater
7/225 Blake Schlueter
2010 Draft:
1/22 Demaryius Thomas
1/25 Tim Tebow
2/45 Zane Beadles
3/80 J.D. Walton
3/87 Eric Decker
5/187 Perrish Cox
6/183 Eric Olsen
7/225 Syd'Quan Thompson
7/232 Jammie Kirlew
Well, then you will have to come to terms with it. The Browns coaching search has been in the makings for months. Our list was:
1.Bill Cowher: Simply wasn't going to happen. I think Bill is ready to return to coaching, but it will never be here for obvious reasons
2.Nick Saban: Just wasn't interested, to old. Is at his last stop.
3.Chip Kelly: Just wasn't interested enough, as he will get other job offers more attractive to him personally
4.Josh McDaniels
5.????????????????
I think it is no surprise that Lombardi/McDaniels were ushered out in the media around the time they were, it was Banner giving everybody a heads up. McDaniels will control the 53 man roster and Banner will control the financials. So the organization is set up as:
Haslam
Banner
McDaniels
Drafting is overrated in the NFL anyway. It is a great coach who gets the most out of his talent always key. Everybody is pretty good entering this league. It is the bad coaching and player relations that destroy teams. Butch Davis wasn't much of a drafter, but his fallout from acting like a douchebag after the 2002 season killed him, not his drafting.
BB sucked drafting in Cleveland.....so what changed in New England? He became the coach he could be.
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Drafting is overrated in the NFL anyway. It is a great coach who gets the most out of his talent always key. Everybody is pretty good entering this league. It is the bad coaching and player relations that destroy teams. Butch Davis wasn't much of a drafter, but his fallout from acting like a douchebag after the 2002 season killed him, not his drafting.
BB sucked drafting in Cleveland.....so what changed in New England? He became the coach he could be.
Interesting point you make about "drafting is overrated". There certainly is some evidence to that effect. The New Englands/Pittsburghs/Denver/Giants etc. never have high draft picks...and always seem to stay on top of the heap.
On the other hand...if you can get that primo QB high in the draft....Elway/P.Manning/E.Manning/..maybe Luck/RGIII,it perhaps can make all the difference to a team.
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Even calling Winslow a "wasted pick" is pushing it. Even Gerard Warren produced..........at a 3rd round level.
Many picks aren't wasted, but misdefined.
Talent pickups are only half the problem to fix with the Browns. The other half is getting a real good coach. Butch Davis was the only "good" coach we had and that was before the 2003 offseason backlash when he lost the lockerroom which led toward his fall.
The whispers I am hearing is Josh McDaniels has all but the job wrapped up and Lombardi will be his personal director. But that is probably for another thread..................
Mcdaniels was horrible at drafting when he had the power in Denver. No way do i want him drafting our players. As a head coach i do like him but he needs a solid GM to work with and that GM is not Lombardi. Id say the best scenario is to Mcdaniels calling the plays and the head coach ala Sean Payton and Heckert staying on as GM with power of the roster. Below is Mcdaniels drafts in 09 10. If you compare it to Heckerts two drafts its not even close.
2009 Draft:
1/12 Knowshon Moreno
1/18 Robert Ayers
2/37 Alphonso Smith
2/48 Darcel McBath
2/64 Richard Quinn
4/114 David Bruton
4/132 Seth Olsen
5/141 Kenny McKinley
6/174 Brandstater
7/225 Blake Schlueter
2010 Draft:
1/22 Demaryius Thomas
1/25 Tim Tebow
2/45 Zane Beadles
3/80 J.D. Walton
3/87 Eric Decker
5/187 Perrish Cox
6/183 Eric Olsen
7/225 Syd'Quan Thompson
7/232 Jammie Kirlew
Mcdaniels was horrible at drafting when he had the power in Denver. No way do i want him drafting our players. As a head coach i do like him but he needs a solid GM to work with and that GM is not Lombardi. Id say the best scenario is to Mcdaniels calling the plays and the head coach ala Sean Payton and Heckert staying on as GM with power of the roster. Below is Mcdaniels drafts in 09 10. If you compare it to Heckerts two drafts its not even close.
2009 Draft:
1/12 Knowshon Moreno
1/18 Robert Ayers
2/37 Alphonso Smith
2/48 Darcel McBath
2/64 Richard Quinn
4/114 David Bruton
4/132 Seth Olsen
5/141 Kenny McKinley
6/174 Brandstater
7/225 Blake Schlueter
2010 Draft:
1/22 Demaryius Thomas
1/25 Tim Tebow
2/45 Zane Beadles
3/80 J.D. Walton
3/87 Eric Decker
5/187 Perrish Cox
6/183 Eric Olsen
7/225 Syd'Quan Thompson
7/232 Jammie Kirlew
Clearly, Banner will have a GM in place and the coach will not be overseeing the draft.
That said ... I'm seeing lots of names that are starters for the 12-3 Broncos.
Zombo
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