Reducing Gun Violence
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Not sarcastic at all.
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Ok.
And do you have goals you'd like to see legislation try to reach?
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Here's a pretty obvious tell.
How many times have we heard the term assault style weapons?
As I've mentioned before the difference between a shotgun with an oak stock and 1 with an aluminum stock is the difference that makes the latter and assault weapon.
WSS
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Reagan is always a good measure of how far right the Republican Party has drifted. They would run that guy out of the Party today, no question.
Reagan is always a good measure of how far right the Republican Party has drifted. They would run that guy out of the Party today, no question.
Ah it's a party consistency you yearn for!
Well then you're in luck.
Ramp up the government handouts and you get a pass for a useless war!
LBJ Would be proud.
WSS
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Banning any gun is useless and is just going to divide the nation. It's too late for that anyway. You have to go a different way, but that doesn't mean nothing could be done. Certain people both in here and in the nation in general are only fighting to preserve the status quo. Why else would you rally for absolutely no change? That's insane.
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Says the guy who's fallback arguement is "crooks will still get guns illegally" you wouldnt sell jared loughner a pack of gum? I'm sure you'd give him a root canal, and its quite likely face to face that he didn't 'look' like a killer. How are you going to profile that? It's not as easy as racial profiling, especially with no criminal convictions. I mean a cop pulled him over the morning of the shooting and let him go. If a cop can't recognize crazy what makes you think you can?
And we're finished. Cherry pick somebody else's posts.
And we're finished. Cherry pick somebody else's posts.
Classic dish it out but can't take it move. I care. Really.
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But back to the topic:
It's hard to say - hard to think like a criminal/loop-holer when you aren't one. I'm not really sure what would be a solution. What I do know is that nothing found in Feinstein's proposal would have prevented Sandy Hook. (or Aurora, or Columbine, etc)
Bans on mag size, weapon type, amount, etc. wouldn't really have an effect on volume of gun violence, imo. It would just shift the demographics of victim/criminal. The cat is already out of the bag, and we know (from endless data on prohibition of various vices) that criminalizing any vice just puts said vice in the wrong hands.
The "repeating" firearm has been around for well over 100 years and these mass killings have just been a phenomenon over the last 30-40 years. For me, the weapon type/size/caliber isn't the problem. So here is where I would focus my efforts. I think background checks don't necessarily need to be more extensive, but maybe a little more focused. I think many understand the trade of freedom for safety and it would apply here too. Your medical records don't remain as private anymore. Adderall, Ritalin, these scripts are a red flag. Psychiatrists should have some responsibility/culpability moving forward. They don't get to remain silent. Not to get all Alex Jonesy, but we are waaaaaay to big for our britches when it comes to what we think we know about neural pathways. Drugs for depression, anxiety, etc., only treat symptoms, and do not focus on cause. Which, to me, is dangerous when dealing with the mind. Despite being the same mechanism of action, there's a big difference in stopping a runny nose and targeting neural receptors.
This is a mental health issue, not a guns issue.
I watched a 30 min vid on Sandy Hook last night that is kind of intense. I need to dig around more to determine the validity of some of the things addressed in the film, but they are pretty scary if accurate.
Also, if you want to get in the mind of a clueless, deceitful member of congress, read this:
http://www.fieldandstream.com/forums/backlash-and-blowback/anti-gun-senator-shoots-intruder
But back to the topic:
It's hard to say - hard to think like a criminal/loop-holer when you aren't one. I'm not really sure what would be a solution. What I do know is that nothing found in Feinstein's proposal would have prevented Sandy Hook. (or Aurora, or Columbine, etc)
Bans on mag size, weapon type, amount, etc. wouldn't really have an effect on volume of gun violence, imo. It would just shift the demographics of victim/criminal. The cat is already out of the bag, and we know (from endless data on prohibition of various vices) that criminalizing any vice just puts said vice in the wrong hands.
The "repeating" firearm has been around for well over 100 years and these mass killings have just been a phenomenon over the last 30-40 years. For me, the weapon type/size/caliber isn't the problem. So here is where I would focus my efforts. I think background checks don't necessarily need to be more extensive, but maybe a little more focused. I think many understand the trade of freedom for safety and it would apply here too. Your medical records don't remain as private anymore. Adderall, Ritalin, these scripts are a red flag. Psychiatrists should have some responsibility/culpability moving forward. They don't get to remain silent. Not to get all Alex Jonesy, but we are waaaaaay to big for our britches when it comes to what we think we know about neural pathways. Drugs for depression, anxiety, etc., only treat symptoms, and do not focus on cause. Which, to me, is dangerous when dealing with the mind. Despite being the same mechanism of action, there's a big difference in stopping a runny nose and targeting neural receptors.
This is a mental health issue, not a guns issue.
I watched a 30 min vid on Sandy Hook last night that is kind of intense. I need to dig around more to determine the validity of some of the things addressed in the film, but they are pretty scary if accurate.
Also, if you want to get in the mind of a clueless, deceitful member of congress, read this:
"Sandy Hook Hoax " the subject matter? not a conspiracy guy, but kind of compelling.
wont post links -but you can find a bunch on youtube...
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and yet, still, Mr. heckbunker Know-it-all doesn't answer his own question.
And most Reps would dearly wish for another Reagan.
Heckbunker and the rest of the left would run JFK and RFK right out of town.
Ah...I long for the old days, when both political parties were AMERICAN.
We only have the Republican party now, and now we need another AMERICAN political
party to run against them.
"sigh"
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Reagan is always a good measure of how far right the Republican Party has drifted. They would run that guy out of the Party today, no question.
Ah it's a party consistency you yearn for!
Well then you're in luck.
Ramp up the government handouts and you get a pass for a useless war!
LBJ Would be proud.
WSS
Ah it's a party consistency you yearn for!
Well then you're in luck.
Ramp up the government handouts and you get a pass for a useless war!
LBJ Would be proud.
WSS
Oh, how I really missed this.
Steve, you, whether knowingly or not, are a prime example of someone who has really lost his bearings during the Obama administration. You're not as good as you used to be. And I'm not taking the bait. Life is too short.
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Ok.
And do you have goals you'd like to see legislation try to reach?
Ok.
And do you have goals you'd like to see legislation try to reach?
I think it's pretty simple: you'd be looking for reductions in gun crime, homicides, the incidence of mass shootings, the lethality of mass shootings. Those are all going to be affected by lots of variables, but the ease with which Americans of any stripe can obtain firearms, and pretty lethal firearms that go beyond what's needed for self-defense or hunting, is certainly one of them. So you'd be trying to affect that variable as best you could, as well as the others.
I don't expect major results. We've already baked so much of this into our cake. Perhaps the most frustrating thing about Sandy Hook - from a policy level anyway - is that in a nation with 300 million guns, a 2nd Amendment, and the Heller decision there's not a whole lot you can do. Even the mental health stuff is a long shot. In almost any of the mass shootings you can think of, these guys - while batshit insane - weren't even diagnosed with anything yet, so there's zero chance you're going to make a law that affects that.
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But back to the topic:
It's hard to say - hard to think like a criminal/loop-holer when you aren't one. I'm not really sure what would be a solution. What I do know is that nothing found in Feinstein's proposal would have prevented Sandy Hook. (or Aurora, or Columbine, etc)
Bans on mag size, weapon type, amount, etc. wouldn't really have an effect on volume of gun violence, imo. It would just shift the demographics of victim/criminal. The cat is already out of the bag, and we know (from endless data on prohibition of various vices) that criminalizing any vice just puts said vice in the wrong hands.
The "repeating" firearm has been around for well over 100 years and these mass killings have just been a phenomenon over the last 30-40 years. For me, the weapon type/size/caliber isn't the problem. So here is where I would focus my efforts. I think background checks don't necessarily need to be more extensive, but maybe a little more focused. I think many understand the trade of freedom for safety and it would apply here too. Your medical records don't remain as private anymore. Adderall, Ritalin, these scripts are a red flag. Psychiatrists should have some responsibility/culpability moving forward. They don't get to remain silent. Not to get all Alex Jonesy, but we are waaaaaay to big for our britches when it comes to what we think we know about neural pathways. Drugs for depression, anxiety, etc., only treat symptoms, and do not focus on cause. Which, to me, is dangerous when dealing with the mind. Despite being the same mechanism of action, there's a big difference in stopping a runny nose and targeting neural receptors.
This is a mental health issue, not a guns issue.
I watched a 30 min vid on Sandy Hook last night that is kind of intense. I need to dig around more to determine the validity of some of the things addressed in the film, but they are pretty scary if accurate.
Also, if you want to get in the mind of a clueless, deceitful member of congress, read this:
"Sandy Hook Hoax " the subject matter? not a conspiracy guy, but kind of compelling.
wont post links -but you can find a bunch on youtube...
"Sandy Hook Hoax " the subject matter? not a conspiracy guy, but kind of compelling.
wont post links -but you can find a bunch on youtube...
There is no hoax. There is no conspiracy. God, I wish there was. Sometimes things are what they look like.
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Ah it's a party consistency you yearn for!
Well then you're in luck.
Ramp up the government handouts and you get a pass for a useless war!
LBJ Would be proud.
WSS
Oh, how I really missed this.
Steve, you, whether knowingly or not, are a prime example of someone who has really lost his bearings during the Obama administration. You're not as good as you used to be. And I'm not taking the bait. Life is too short.
Oh, how I really missed this.
Steve, you, whether knowingly or not, are a prime example of someone who has really lost his bearings during the Obama administration. You're not as good as you used to be. And I'm not taking the bait. Life is too short.
Oh dear me.
Look if you insist upon spouting the talking points of the left what in the world do you expect?
And I'm not even kidding.
And no I wasn't assuming you'd want to get into a deep debate about the little piece of snark, but I know you get it.
To you and your people anyone to the right of Lenin is fringe.
I get it.
WSS
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Oh, how I really missed this.
Steve, you, whether knowingly or not, are a prime example of someone who has really lost his bearings during the Obama administration. You're not as good as you used to be. And I'm not taking the bait. Life is too short.
Oh dear me.
Look if you insist upon spouting the talking points of the left what in the world do you expect?
And I'm not even kidding.
And no I wasn't assuming you'd want to get into a deep debate about the little piece of snark, but I know you get it.
To you and your people anyone to the right of Lenin is fringe.
I get it.
WSS
Oh dear me.
Look if you insist upon spouting the talking points of the left what in the world do you expect?
And I'm not even kidding.
And no I wasn't assuming you'd want to get into a deep debate about the little piece of snark, but I know you get it.
To you and your people anyone to the right of Lenin is fringe.
I get it.
WSS
What was the talking point? The Reagan remark? That's absolutely true. Unless you think there's room for a tax-raising, gun-controlling, zero nuclear weapons wishing, sit down with our adversaries loving, collective bargaining supporting former union president in today's Republican Party. But there isn't.
Reagan is a great barometer of what political scientists have documented and measured - the Republican Party has drifted further and further to the right, and has become more and more ideological. The classic "bubble" response is to wish this reality away by calling it a "talking point." Sorry, that's the reality.
Steve, my brother, try arguing in good faith for once. Bring something other than spite. It's a new year.
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@westside-steve said:
And furthermore this entire crock of horse s*** is meaningless when you get right down to it.
We can pat ourselves on the back for having such a civil left of center consensus.
Let's have stricter penalties for gun crimes! Hoo ray!
As long as they're not mandatory nor too strict so that trial lawyers can get you off for a fee.
Let's have extensive background checks! Hoo rah again.
As long as they don't reveal anything embarrassing, okay?
Hell we can't even get a prescription drug database ass up and running.
And it's already illegal to lie on 1 of those applications you know.
There were literally thousands of fraudulent applications last year but only 44 were prosecuted.
We can ban any firearms that look like assault weapons.
It won't do anything but hey it sounds good.
Look I realize you think I must be a gun nut but personally I don't care if they ban handguns everything take it all away.
Just man up and say the second Amendment is worthless, which it is.
You do realize this would also wntail going through everyone's home searching and seizing every firearm right?
Fine.
As long as we take them from the bad guys too.
But instead I figure all we will get is some Kabuki theater from Obama and his trained monkey Biden.
It was embarrassing to watch only because there are people out there in the world watching it probably getting all choked up
Sometimes in order to fix anything, even slightly, you need more than a political advertisement disguised as a strategy.
But you can congratulate yourself you took a shot at Reagan!
Help yourself to a dog treat.
WSS
Eesh.
Look, your speeches are the same no matter what we're talking about. It's so fucking boring, and I'd already taken two months off from them.
And, as always, you're completely wrong about what I think. I believe in the Second Amendment. I don't think citizens in a free country are dependent on the state for their personal protection. I believe that yes, Americans have the right to armed self-defense, with limits, and balancing the need for public safety.
I really don't have time for you if this is where you want to go. You went zero to asshole in 2 days.
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Uh too late. Sorry I went up stairs dry my hair brush my teeth getting dressed...
I'd decided to come down and just delete that last entire rant.
Oh well forget it, but it's still nothing but political theater.
If anyone can admit that, fine. If not oh well.
WSS
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No, it's not. It's just the only political opinion you have. It's your self-image. That doesn't make it true.
Everyone in here is talking about the limits of what these changes can accomplish. It's in every post. We're talking about reducing problems at the margins. There are no starry-eyed idealists in here. But that gets in the way of you pretending like you're the only realist in the world, so you pretend you never read it. Which makes you sound like an imbecile.
So just fuck off. You're an asshole pretending to be a jolly old fellow.
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Look at Obama proposals, it seems like tightening up background checks is the most worthwhile and most likely to get some coalition of support. Most of the other stuff probably dies in the House.
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Look at Obama proposals, it seems like tightening up background checks is the most worthwhile and most likely to get some coalition of support. Most of the other stuff probably dies in the House.
Look at Obama proposals, it seems like tightening up background checks is the most worthwhile and most likely to get some coalition of support. Most of the other stuff probably dies in the House.
Just saw these. Have to say I'm surprised/impressed. He seems to get it. (Background, mental health)
Good for him.
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Not a sweeping as I thought. I actually agree with 7,8 and 9. 7 & 8 were down the lines of what I proposed.
Here is a list of the 23 executive orders that Obama issued today:
1. Issue a Presidential Memorandum to require federal agencies to make relevant data available to the federal background check system.
2. Address unnecessary legal barriers, particularly relating to the Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act, that may prevent states from making information available to the background check system.
3. Improve incentives for states to share information with the background check system.
4. Direct the Attorney General to review categories of individuals prohibited from having a gun to make sure dangerous people are not slipping through the cracks.
5. Propose rulemaking to give law enforcement the ability to run a full background check on an individual before returning a seized gun.
6. Publish a letter from ATF to federally licensed gun dealers providing guidance on how to run background checks for private sellers.
7. Launch a national safe and responsible gun ownership campaign.
8. Review safety standards for gun locks and gun safes (Consumer Product Safety Commission).
9. Issue a Presidential Memorandum to require federal law enforcement to trace guns recovered in criminal investigations.
10. Release a DOJ report analyzing information on lost and stolen guns and make it widely available to law enforcement.
11. Nominate an ATF director.
12. Provide law enforcement, first responders, and school officials with proper training for active shooter situations.
13. Maximize enforcement efforts to prevent gun violence and prosecute gun crime.
14. Issue a Presidential Memorandum directing the Centers for Disease Control to research the causes and prevention of gun violence.
15. Direct the Attorney General to issue a report on the availability and most effective use of new gun safety technologies and challenge the private sector to develop innovative technologies.
16. Clarify that the Affordable Care Act does not prohibit doctors asking their patients about guns in their homes.
17. Release a letter to health-care providers clarifying that no federal law prohibits them from reporting threats of violence to law-enforcement authorities.
18. Provide incentives for schools to hire school resource officers.
19. Develop model emergency-response plans for schools, houses of worship and institutions of higher education.
20. Release a letter to state health officials clarifying the scope of mental-health services that Medicaid plans must cover.
21. Finalize regulations clarifying essential health benefits and parity requirements within ACA exchanges.
22. Commit to finalizing mental-health-parity regulations.
23. Launch a national dialogue led by Secretaries Sebelius and Duncan on mental health.
Luck is Tim Couch. Big, Dumb Goofy, slow thinking QB - Ghoolie, 2-28-12 -
meanwhile, the "AG" is a corrupt Obamao Mafiaso mentality,
and Sebelius and Obamao don't appear to be any more mentally right
that a school murderer. "Fast and Furious" comes to mind. "Fast and Furious" was the
intended "Sandy Hook" crisis to get gun control and anti-gun owner sentiment up and running,
but it backfired. This dirtbag, marxist pig president will stoop to any low, to get more and more
of his agenda up and rolling before all is lost. Obamao said before, that raising the debt limit was
terrible, terrible, etc etc etc. Now that HE has HIS power, he wants to be allowed to unilaterally take over
and have the power to raise it any damn time he wants to buy more power, etc.
And the "clinging to their guns and religion".. thing... how the hell do you take this dirtbag "president" seriously?
He's like the old Soviet kgb - lying is a way of life, vicious lying is even better. It covers up the evil behind the scenes.
The left says one thing, and poops another...of the same thing.
For marxist pigs, it's just another foot in the door, using children as a front,
using murdered children's faces on poker chips.
If Bush had done that, the left would be outraged and "sickened".
And heckbunker would be "all in" for the left, as usual.
Some of those ideas came from the NRA - Biden coopted them for Obamao.
But the left is still the left - a leftist video game has the game player - murdering
the president of the NRA with a gun.
That is who Obamao and co are. And, when another hideous murder spree takes place...
sadly, it will be Obamao and co saying "we didn't do enough, now we need to _______".
Just like the definition of "assault weapons" isn't specified, it just opens the door to new
and more Obamao take all guns away "definitions" later on.
Meanwhile, a quarter of a million Americans joined the NRA. Meanwhile,
guns and ammo are flying off the shelves.
I am concerned, though, that the "if you've ever been treated for ..." or "ever been sad" mentality....that then you can never have a gun, hunt,whatever.....
will make folks NOT get the help they need - even if it's only grief counseling. They already are putting a "criminal mentality" on all veterans, the tea party, hunters,
gun owners, Christians,
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