Little Men That Can Hit And Big Men That Can Run
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@king-ghoolie-lives said:
Words and Deeds, Often not the same thing once the story is told. I'll wait and see.
Howver, the one fun and positive thing is at least we are hearing philosophies and what guys stand for. I liked Butch Davis for that reason, at least you knew the guy liked big, hard hitting players and believed a strong 4 man line was teh way to win on defense. He had it for a wee short time too, then it imploded.
The past Browns teams were so generic and blah it was hard to get any feel for the team. Rutigliano was the last coach to actually have a defined purpose.................. pass pass pass and then pass more.
I loved that guy.
Lets make no mistake...Sam understood the importance of the run. But yeah,Sam was the man..I like what I heard overall concerning Horton. Very articulate and knows what he wants. Im still not sold on Gocong as an OLB but. I guess that remains to be seen.
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@king-ghoolie-lives said:
Words and Deeds, Often not the same thing once the story is told. I'll wait and see.
Howver, the one fun and positive thing is at least we are hearing philosophies and what guys stand for. I liked Butch Davis for that reason, at least you knew the guy liked big, hard hitting players and believed a strong 4 man line was teh way to win on defense. He had it for a wee short time too, then it imploded.
The past Browns teams were so generic and blah it was hard to get any feel for the team. Rutigliano was the last coach to actually have a defined purpose.................. pass pass pass and then pass more.
I loved that guy.
Indeed, Horton talks a good game. (I refuse to insert the cliche "can he saunter the saunter or stroll the stroll or boogie the boogie or skip the skip or gallop the gallop or crawl the crawl or walk the walk")
Yes, lets see if he performs the deeds he says he wants to.
Though....sometimes Sam talked a bigger game than he delivered.
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I love the presser for Horton, I love that he and Chud are going to mold their units around the player instead of having a rigid scheme that they make the players try to fit into. I was impressed with him.
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Seeing some passion and intensity coming from someone in a leadership position of the Browns
was a welcome slap in the face. I don't need a coach to be bug-eyed, red faced, spit flying out
of his mouth crazy. Belichek is none of those things but it's pretty obvious that there is some
high voltage coursing through his veins.
Watching previous Browns administrations was like Invasion of the Body Snatchers.
Shurmer at a press conference was like watching an awkward 6th grader give an oral book
report in front of the class--I half expected him to burst into tears and run off the stage.
Show some damn fire--as Jack Lambert once said, "This is football, get excited! If you're not
excited than go play tennis."
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I like what I am hearing....not only from Horton, but from everybody in charge. It's refreshing.
I agree about words and deeds, but so far we are seeing the deeds after the words. I have a feeling that is going to be the mode in Berea.
Under Lerner and Homie we got all kinds of words out of Homie but it became pretty clear he wasn't under fire from Lerner so he became pretty comfortable talking about things but not really expecting much behind that.
At least to this point, it is pretty clear Haslam isn't going to allow anybody on the team to become too comfortable if the deeds aren't apparent to at least some degree.
I like it.
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So let's fill the front seven up with Elvis Dumervils and the defensive backfield with Richard Shermans.
That's actually pretty interesting.
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@king-ghoolie-lives said:
I loved teh Sam quote where he said something to the effect " we move the ball by passing. Anything else is increasingly boring". His teams were exciting. I watched Marty and BErnie, year-by-year dilute what Sam installed, and fall further and further from greatness. I believe TOmlin has done this to the Steelers as well.
I digressed, but again, it is at least good to hear some emotion coming out of teh franchise for a change.
Randy Lerner was just plain creepy.
Well, again, but sorry, I don't know where and how Sam ever got the Browns to "greatness".
Sam and Sipe together took the Browns to exactly one single playoff game, that 1980 Red Right 88 game loss to the Raiders in which we all know what happened. 14-12 loss because Sipe could not find the blonde in the third row.
The only other playoff game Sam took the Browns to was at the end of the strike shortened 1982 season where the Browns were "allowed" in with a 4-5 record. Sipe had been hurt earlier that year and Paul McDonald had to play the last half of the season, including the playoff game, this time a blowout loss by 27-10 to those same Raiders.
Compare to Marty and Bernie...three AFC title game appearances. Twice coming thisclose to making the Super Bowl.
And I don't know how you figure that under Bernie the Browns were not a passing team. They were a more balanced team with better runners with Mack and Byner, but certainly BK threw the ball around plenty.
Here are their comparative careers:
Kosar
Year...games...yards...TDs
1985...10...1578...8
1986...16...3854...17
1987...12...3033...22
1988...9...1890...10
1989...16...3533...18
1990...13...2562...10
1991...16...3487...18
1992...7...1160...8
Sipe
Year...games...yard...TDs
1976...15...2113...17
1977...9...1233...9
1978...16...2906...21
1979...16...3793...28
1980...16...4132...30
1981...16...3876...17
1982...6...1064...4
1983...15...3566...26
Looking at this I would say yardage wise that things were pretty even between the two QBs.
Sipe does seem to hold a pretty big edge however on the number of TD passes he threw.
I think the main reason for that is that Kosar had Mack and Byner to run the ball in. While Sipe had the Pruitt's, I personally don't think combined that Mike and Greg Pruitt were quite the combo that Mack and Byner were.
Note, that is Sipe's and the Browns best year: 1980 Mike Pruitt had all of 6 rushing TDs and -0- receiving TDs, and Gregg Pruitt had -0- rush TDs but 5 receiving TDs.
In 1986 Mack had 10 rushing TDs, Byner had 2 rush and 2 receiving TDs.
But, again, bottom line is the Browns succeeded in the playoffs frequently under Kosar and Marty while under Sam they never went anywhere.
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@king-ghoolie-lives said:
I loved teh Sam quote where he said something to the effect " we move the ball by passing. Anything else is increasingly boring". His teams were exciting. I watched Marty and BErnie, year-by-year dilute what Sam installed, and fall further and further from greatness. I believe TOmlin has done this to the Steelers as well.
I digressed, but again, it is at least good to hear some emotion coming out of teh franchise for a change.
Randy Lerner was just plain creepy.
Well, again, but sorry, I don't know where and how Sam ever got the Browns to "greatness".
Sam and Sipe together took the Browns to exactly one single playoff game, that 1980 Red Right 88 game loss to the Raiders in which we all know what happened. 14-12 loss because Sipe could not find the blonde in the third row.
The only other playoff game Sam took the Browns to was at the end of the strike shortened 1982 season where the Browns were "allowed" in with a 4-5 record. Sipe had been hurt earlier that year and Paul McDonald had to play the last half of the season, including the playoff game, this time a blowout loss by 27-10 to those same Raiders.
Compare to Marty and Bernie...three AFC title game appearances. Twice coming thisclose to making the Super Bowl.
And I don't know how you figure that under Bernie the Browns were not a passing team. They were a more balanced team with better runners with Mack and Byner, but certainly BK threw the ball around plenty.
Here are their comparative careers:
Kosar
Year...games...yards...TDs
1985...10...1578...8
1986...16...3854...17
1987...12...3033...22
1988...9...1890...10
1989...16...3533...18
1990...13...2562...10
1991...16...3487...18
1992...7...1160...8
Sipe
Year...games...yard...TDs
1976...15...2113...17
1977...9...1233...9
1978...16...2906...21
1979...16...3793...28
1980...16...4132...30
1981...16...3876...17
1982...6...1064...4
1983...15...3566...26
Looking at this I would say yardage wise that things were pretty even between the two QBs.
Sipe does seem to hold a pretty big edge however on the number of TD passes he threw.
I think the main reason for that is that Kosar had Mack and Byner to run the ball in. While Sipe had the Pruitt's, I personally don't think combined that Mike and Greg Pruitt were quite the combo that Mack and Byner were.
Note, that is Sipe's and the Browns best year: 1980 Mike Pruitt had all of 6 rushing TDs and -0- receiving TDs, and Gregg Pruitt had -0- rush TDs but 5 receiving TDs.
In 1986 Mack had 10 rushing TDs, Byner had 2 rush and 2 receiving TDs.
But, again, bottom line is the Browns succeeded in the playoffs frequently under Kosar and Marty while under Sam they never went anywhere.
Well, again, but sorry, I don't know where and how Sam ever got the Browns to "greatness".
Sam and Sipe together took the Browns to exactly one single playoff game, that 1980 Red Right 88 game loss to the Raiders in which we all know what happened. 14-12 loss because Sipe could not find the blonde in the third row.
The only other playoff game Sam took the Browns to was at the end of the strike shortened 1982 season where the Browns were "allowed" in with a 4-5 record. Sipe had been hurt earlier that year and Paul McDonald had to play the last half of the season, including the playoff game, this time a blowout loss by 27-10 to those same Raiders.
Compare to Marty and Bernie...three AFC title game appearances. Twice coming thisclose to making the Super Bowl.
And I don't know how you figure that under Bernie the Browns were not a passing team. They were a more balanced team with better runners with Mack and Byner, but certainly BK threw the ball around plenty.
Here are their comparative careers:
Kosar
Year...games...yards...TDs
1985...10...1578...8
1986...16...3854...17
1987...12...3033...22
1988...9...1890...10
1989...16...3533...18
1990...13...2562...10
1991...16...3487...18
1992...7...1160...8
Sipe
Year...games...yard...TDs
1976...15...2113...17
1977...9...1233...9
1978...16...2906...21
1979...16...3793...28
1980...16...4132...30
1981...16...3876...17
1982...6...1064...4
1983...15...3566...26
Looking at this I would say yardage wise that things were pretty even between the two QBs.
Sipe does seem to hold a pretty big edge however on the number of TD passes he threw.
I think the main reason for that is that Kosar had Mack and Byner to run the ball in. While Sipe had the Pruitt's, I personally don't think combined that Mike and Greg Pruitt were quite the combo that Mack and Byner were.
Note, that is Sipe's and the Browns best year: 1980 Mike Pruitt had all of 6 rushing TDs and -0- receiving TDs, and Gregg Pruitt had -0- rush TDs but 5 receiving TDs.
In 1986 Mack had 10 rushing TDs, Byner had 2 rush and 2 receiving TDs.
But, again, bottom line is the Browns succeeded in the playoffs frequently under Kosar and Marty while under Sam they never went anywhere.
A couple points ... Sipe wasn't injured in 82, he was benched.
There is no doubt that overall the Schottenheimer era was much better than the Rutigliano era, I think the biggest difference was a much better defense in the mid-late 80's than the late 70's early 80's.
Zombo
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Well, again, but sorry, I don't know where and how Sam ever got the Browns to "greatness".
Sam and Sipe together took the Browns to exactly one single playoff game, that 1980 Red Right 88 game loss to the Raiders in which we all know what happened. 14-12 loss because Sipe could not find the blonde in the third row.
The only other playoff game Sam took the Browns to was at the end of the strike shortened 1982 season where the Browns were "allowed" in with a 4-5 record. Sipe had been hurt earlier that year and Paul McDonald had to play the last half of the season, including the playoff game, this time a blowout loss by 27-10 to those same Raiders.
Compare to Marty and Bernie...three AFC title game appearances. Twice coming thisclose to making the Super Bowl.
And I don't know how you figure that under Bernie the Browns were not a passing team. They were a more balanced team with better runners with Mack and Byner, but certainly BK threw the ball around plenty.
Here are their comparative careers:
Kosar
Year...games...yards...TDs
1985...10...1578...8
1986...16...3854...17
1987...12...3033...22
1988...9...1890...10
1989...16...3533...18
1990...13...2562...10
1991...16...3487...18
1992...7...1160...8
Sipe
Year...games...yard...TDs
1976...15...2113...17
1977...9...1233...9
1978...16...2906...21
1979...16...3793...28
1980...16...4132...30
1981...16...3876...17
1982...6...1064...4
1983...15...3566...26
Looking at this I would say yardage wise that things were pretty even between the two QBs.
Sipe does seem to hold a pretty big edge however on the number of TD passes he threw.
I think the main reason for that is that Kosar had Mack and Byner to run the ball in. While Sipe had the Pruitt's, I personally don't think combined that Mike and Greg Pruitt were quite the combo that Mack and Byner were.
Note, that is Sipe's and the Browns best year: 1980 Mike Pruitt had all of 6 rushing TDs and -0- receiving TDs, and Gregg Pruitt had -0- rush TDs but 5 receiving TDs.
In 1986 Mack had 10 rushing TDs, Byner had 2 rush and 2 receiving TDs.
But, again, bottom line is the Browns succeeded in the playoffs frequently under Kosar and Marty while under Sam they never went anywhere.
A couple points ... Sipe wasn't injured in 82, he was benched.
There is no doubt that overall the Schottenheimer era was much better than the Rutigliano era, I think the biggest difference was a much better defense in the mid-late 80's than the late 70's early 80's.
Zombo
Zombo said:
A couple points ... Sipe wasn't injured in 82, he was benched.
There is no doubt that overall the Schottenheimer era was much better than the Rutigliano era, I think the biggest difference was a much better defense in the mid-late 80's than the late 70's early 80's.
Zombo
Really? Sipe was benched? I don't recall that. That even looks worse for Sam if he benched Sipe in favor of McDonald. I mean, Sipe came back in '93 with a pretty darn good year.
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Zombo said:
A couple points ... Sipe wasn't injured in 82, he was benched.
There is no doubt that overall the Schottenheimer era was much better than the Rutigliano era, I think the biggest difference was a much better defense in the mid-late 80's than the late 70's early 80's.
Zombo
Really? Sipe was benched? I don't recall that. That even looks worse for Sam if he benched Sipe in favor of McDonald. I mean, Sipe came back in '93 with a pretty darn good year.
Really? Sipe was benched? I don't recall that. That even looks worse for Sam if he benched Sipe in favor of McDonald. I mean, Sipe came back in '93 with a pretty darn good year.
Modell was enamored with McDonald, and after the rough 81 Season, when they got off to a bad start in 82, Modell had Sam throw McDonald in there.
Yes, Sipe rebounded for a nice '83 season, but Modell was still in love with McDonald so Sipe went to the USFL and McDonald layed an egg in 84 and got Sam fired and that started the Marty era and Bernie Kosar was landed in the off-season.
Zombo
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Just a personal historical note on Sipe. Back in that era 1972-1977 I worked for a local ACME grocery store. Our produce manager, a guy named Woody, owned a small farm out in Seville, Ohio. Out toward the back of this farm was a pond, and next to the pond he had a very nice I guess you could call it a decent sized "cottage" that he would rent out. Well, who was his tenant? Brian Sipe and his wife. I believe he may have lived in that cottage for most of his time with the Browns....at least up from like 73-77. They liked living in Seville so much that when their daughter was born while living there they named her Lani Seville Sipe.
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