Psl's No Longer Required At Stadium
-
Look I said before, but for those with psl's not in the bottom levels you're right. Unfortunately that's just life sometimes. I mean think about people like my brother who bought homes in 2007. He paid peak market price at almost 250k. Now the EXACT same house in the same neighborhood is around 150-170k. Of course it sucks but does that mean the realtors should try and sell at a price no one will buy?
That same brother just bought psl's for the panthers. They told him at the beginning this is a sunk cost and has no value. It's a risk everyone ran when you bought tickets.
-
As I understand it, the PSLs were sold initially to help with the owners cost to construct the Stadium.
I personally never did nor ever would pay for a PSL....but that is because I have only gone to a few games live over the years. I learned early on that the best seat in the house was the one in my house, not Al and Randy Lerners house.
Nevertheless I sympathize with all of you who laid out these bucks. I don't know how many PSL owners there are, but in my view all of you who did buy them should have an exclusive place in the stadium that are the best seats and that only you can sit in. You should all be granted an upgrade to club seat level or something for only the extra cost of the tickets.
-
What aren't you understanding? The entire 100 level is SOLD OUT via PSLs. If you drop your seats- it's a virtual certainty they're going to go to another PSL holder, who incidentally DID pay for a seat license.
Let me give you a couple practical examples. You're in 149, corner end zone. I'm in 111, 20 yard line sideline. If I ever dropped my seats (of course I never will) think there wouldn't be a stampede from your section to get seat improvement? BTW, we've put in for seat improvement for years, we were only asking for one section over, and 10 rows higher. Trust me, unless you're willing to shell out $10,000 a seat on Craiglist or eBay- in between the 25 yard lines lower deck ain't happening. Those seats literally get handed down in wills.
If you ever dropped your seats- believe me, there's plenty of folks who own PSL nosebleeds who would be more than happy to move down. Now if you want to grouse that they didn't get upcharged for the move, you have a point.
Larry, what aren't you understanding? PSL's have been sold all over the stadium. In many of those situations you aren't going to have other PSL owners swooping in.....why should I buy your PSLs when I can sit for free (no PSL) a few rows higher or a section over? There is more to the stadium than section 100 if you didn't know that.
Larry, what aren't you understanding? PSL's have been sold all over the stadium. In many of those situations you aren't going to have other PSL owners swooping in.....why should I buy your PSLs when I can sit for free (no PSL) a few rows higher or a section over? There is more to the stadium than section 100 if you didn't know that.
Of course I know that 'Peen. I sat in the Upper Level for a few years, and I can certainly understand why there isn't a big demand for those seats, and yes, it is unfair to us guys who initially bought in. I definitely feel bad for nephew Dan, who just bought in last year for upper level end zone- if he had waited until this year, he could have had the same seats without buying a PSL. If there's ever a case for "I want my money back" that has to be it.
As I understand it, the PSLs were sold initially to help with the owners cost to construct the Stadium.
I personally never did nor ever would pay for a PSL....but that is because I have only gone to a few games live over the years. I learned early on that the best seat in the house was the one in my house, not Al and Randy Lerners house.
Nevertheless I sympathize with all of you who laid out these bucks. I don't know how many PSL owners there are, but in my view all of you who did buy them should have an exclusive place in the stadium that are the best seats and that only you can sit in. You should all be granted an upgrade to club seat level or something for only the extra cost of the tickets.
What I got out of buying in initially is my name is up there on the wall- along with all the other guys who bought in on the first offering.
-
Well I'm in one of the lower levels, but I still don't think it's right for the rest of the PSL owners who aren't. Are the Browns going to notify every PSL owner of seats that open up on the lower level? How are they going to determine who gets those seats?
If it's being discussed on all of the boards, ther must be alot of people that don't like the decision. That's the last thing new management should want to do......piss off the people who have supported their lowsy product for so many years. Maybe Kevin Costner can talk them out of it.
-
Larry, what aren't you understanding? PSL's have been sold all over the stadium. In many of those situations you aren't going to have other PSL owners swooping in.....why should I buy your PSLs when I can sit for free (no PSL) a few rows higher or a section over? There is more to the stadium than section 100 if you didn't know that.
Of course I know that 'Peen. I sat in the Upper Level for a few years, and I can certainly understand why there isn't a big demand for those seats, and yes, it is unfair to us guys who initially bought in. I definitely feel bad for nephew Dan, who just bought in last year for upper level end zone- if he had waited until this year, he could have had the same seats without buying a PSL. If there's ever a case for "I want my money back" that has to be it.
As I understand it, the PSLs were sold initially to help with the owners cost to construct the Stadium.
I personally never did nor ever would pay for a PSL....but that is because I have only gone to a few games live over the years. I learned early on that the best seat in the house was the one in my house, not Al and Randy Lerners house.
Nevertheless I sympathize with all of you who laid out these bucks. I don't know how many PSL owners there are, but in my view all of you who did buy them should have an exclusive place in the stadium that are the best seats and that only you can sit in. You should all be granted an upgrade to club seat level or something for only the extra cost of the tickets.
What I got out of buying in initially is my name is up there on the wall- along with all the other guys who bought in on the first offering.
I definitely feel bad for nephew Dan, who just bought in last year for upper level end zone- if he had waited until this year, he could have had the same seats without buying a PSL. If there's ever a case for "I want my money back" that has to be it.
No doubt. Make no mistake. I knew all along the PSL's weren't worth a whole heck of a lot. I factored that in when I bought them. I figured if I got 10 years out of them, I was good, and I really feel that way. I don't have to have or count on getting the $3000 back, or even some portion. That is spent money. Anything I get back is simply bonus money....maybe all on Green in Vegas. (That could up the wine selection at a dinner or two)
It's more about guys like Dan who had to pay last year, or 2-3 years ago. My worry is I am afraid someone who has a few bucks has already snatched up seats I was wanting to have. Someone who didn't spend a damn dime to support the team a week ago, but today gets to slide in front of me because he/she can walk up to the window so to speak and secure the tickets, and I have to go through a process of seat relocation. That pisses me off.
Those of you who know me know I don't cuss much and type it less, but this has me aggravated. I'll wait for the process to unfold before my final feelings are expressed.
-
I definitely feel bad for nephew Dan, who just bought in last year for upper level end zone- if he had waited until this year, he could have had the same seats without buying a PSL. If there's ever a case for "I want my money back" that has to be it.
No doubt. Make no mistake. I knew all along the PSL's weren't worth a whole heck of a lot. I factored that in when I bought them. I figured if I got 10 years out of them, I was good, and I really feel that way. I don't have to have or count on getting the $3000 back, or even some portion. That is spent money. Anything I get back is simply bonus money....maybe all on Green in Vegas. (That could up the wine selection at a dinner or two)
It's more about guys like Dan who had to pay last year, or 2-3 years ago. My worry is I am afraid someone who has a few bucks has already snatched up seats I was wanting to have. Someone who didn't spend a damn dime to support the team a week ago, but today gets to slide in front of me because he/she can walk up to the window so to speak and secure the tickets, and I have to go through a process of seat relocation. That pisses me off.
Those of you who know me know I don't cuss much and type it less, but this has me aggravated. I'll wait for the process to unfold before my final feelings are expressed.
No doubt. Make no mistake. I knew all along the PSL's weren't worth a whole heck of a lot. I factored that in when I bought them. I figured if I got 10 years out of them, I was good, and I really feel that way. I don't have to have or count on getting the $3000 back, or even some portion. That is spent money. Anything I get back is simply bonus money....maybe all on Green in Vegas. (That could up the wine selection at a dinner or two)
It's more about guys like Dan who had to pay last year, or 2-3 years ago. My worry is I am afraid someone who has a few bucks has already snatched up seats I was wanting to have. Someone who didn't spend a damn dime to support the team a week ago, but today gets to slide in front of me because he/she can walk up to the window so to speak and secure the tickets, and I have to go through a process of seat relocation. That pisses me off.
Those of you who know me know I don't cuss much and type it less, but this has me aggravated. I'll wait for the process to unfold before my final feelings are expressed.
I couldn't agree with you more and frankly can't understand why some others don't get it just because they sit in the lower level.
-
i bought 12 seats in 1999, 4 clubs and 8 in my current section. They were discounted because i was a long time season ticketholder before the move, but you can imagine that it was still a lot of cash. Like most, i was hoping the team would be a great success and i would be able to recover my cost some day (or better).
Reality set in about 5 years ago when i decided to unload my clubs. i contacted many well-known and lesser-known businesses looking for a buyer. Nobody wanted them. After several months of effort, i ended up turning them back over to the team- PSL lost.
i'm down to 6 seats and haven't recovered a dime. The reality is that if there are no buyers, then your PSL isn't worth jack shit. Period. That's the way it is. My net worth in my seats was $0 before the announcement, and remains $0 after the announcement. i am unaffected.
If anyone is looking for a silver lining, here it is. When the Browns become a consistent NFL powerhouse and people are falling all over themselves to buy tickets, i'll still be allowed to sell my PSLs at whatever price i'm able to get for them. That is my contractual right, and the Browns have not taken that away. So i've got that to look forward to......
-
When the Browns become a consistent NFL powerhouse and people are falling all over themselves to buy tickets, i'll still be allowed to sell my PSLs at whatever price i'm able to get for them.
By then all the people around you will have bought their season tickets WITHOUT PSL's
-
When the Browns become a consistent NFL powerhouse and people are falling all over themselves to buy tickets, i'll still be allowed to sell my PSLs at whatever price i'm able to get for them.
By then all the people around you will have bought their season tickets WITHOUT PSL's
When the Browns become a consistent NFL powerhouse and people are falling all over themselves to buy tickets, i'll still be allowed to sell my PSLs at whatever price i'm able to get for them.
By then all the people around you will have bought their season tickets WITHOUT PSL's
Dude, I'm sorry for you that you haven't caught on to the concept of sarcasm. I even tried to help you out with the wink.
That aside, I stand by my comment that my PSLs were worth nothing before this announcement, so this means nothing to me. The bottom line is that the Browns and I entered into a signed contract. Neither of us have violated any parts of that contract. They provided no guarantees, and I knew that when I signed on. So did you (unless you didn't read it).
-
When the Browns become a consistent NFL powerhouse and people are falling all over themselves to buy tickets, i'll still be allowed to sell my PSLs at whatever price i'm able to get for them.
By then all the people around you will have bought their season tickets WITHOUT PSL's
Dude, I'm sorry for you that you haven't caught on to the concept of sarcasm. I even tried to help you out with the wink.
That aside, I stand by my comment that my PSLs were worth nothing before this announcement, so this means nothing to me. The bottom line is that the Browns and I entered into a signed contract. Neither of us have violated any parts of that contract. They provided no guarantees, and I knew that when I signed on. So did you (unless you didn't read it).
Dude, I'm sorry for you that you haven't caught on to the concept of sarcasm. I even tried to help you out with the wink.
That aside, I stand by my comment that my PSLs were worth nothing before this announcement, so this means nothing to me. The bottom line is that the Browns and I entered into a signed contract. Neither of us have violated any parts of that contract. They provided no guarantees, and I knew that when I signed on. So did you (unless you didn't read it).
so be happy when someone NEW gets tickets in your section, and they DON'T have to pay the PSL price you had to pay for THE SAME TICKETS.
-
I definitely feel bad for nephew Dan, who just bought in last year for upper level end zone- if he had waited until this year, he could have had the same seats without buying a PSL. If there's ever a case for "I want my money back" that has to be it.
No doubt. Make no mistake. I knew all along the PSL's weren't worth a whole heck of a lot. I factored that in when I bought them. I figured if I got 10 years out of them, I was good, and I really feel that way. I don't have to have or count on getting the $3000 back, or even some portion. That is spent money. Anything I get back is simply bonus money....maybe all on Green in Vegas. (That could up the wine selection at a dinner or two)
It's more about guys like Dan who had to pay last year, or 2-3 years ago. My worry is I am afraid someone who has a few bucks has already snatched up seats I was wanting to have. Someone who didn't spend a damn dime to support the team a week ago, but today gets to slide in front of me because he/she can walk up to the window so to speak and secure the tickets, and I have to go through a process of seat relocation. That pisses me off.
Those of you who know me know I don't cuss much and type it less, but this has me aggravated. I'll wait for the process to unfold before my final feelings are expressed.
No doubt. Make no mistake. I knew all along the PSL's weren't worth a whole heck of a lot. I factored that in when I bought them. I figured if I got 10 years out of them, I was good, and I really feel that way. I don't have to have or count on getting the $3000 back, or even some portion. That is spent money. Anything I get back is simply bonus money....maybe all on Green in Vegas. (That could up the wine selection at a dinner or two)
It's more about guys like Dan who had to pay last year, or 2-3 years ago. My worry is I am afraid someone who has a few bucks has already snatched up seats I was wanting to have. Someone who didn't spend a damn dime to support the team a week ago, but today gets to slide in front of me because he/she can walk up to the window so to speak and secure the tickets, and I have to go through a process of seat relocation. That pisses me off.
Those of you who know me know I don't cuss much and type it less, but this has me aggravated. I'll wait for the process to unfold before my final feelings are expressed.
Well said Ballpeen
-
"my PSLs were worth nothing before this announcement"
If that statmenet was true, then last week when you looked at season ticket prices, the Browns OFFICIAL website stated PSL's in my section were $1000 per seat?
According to the CLEVELAND BROWNS my PSL's were "WORTH" $1000 per seat.
-
Dude, I'm sorry for you that you haven't caught on to the concept of sarcasm. I even tried to help you out with the wink.
That aside, I stand by my comment that my PSLs were worth nothing before this announcement, so this means nothing to me. The bottom line is that the Browns and I entered into a signed contract. Neither of us have violated any parts of that contract. They provided no guarantees, and I knew that when I signed on. So did you (unless you didn't read it).
so be happy when someone NEW gets tickets in your section, and they DON'T have to pay the PSL price you had to pay for THE SAME TICKETS.
so be happy when someone NEW gets tickets in your section, and they DON'T have to pay the PSL price you had to pay for THE SAME TICKETS.
Chill out. That has already happened.
I knew that the PSLs were worthless. I've "sold" a couple seats to others that I know for $0. There have been no independent buyers, so why not "sell" them guys to guys i know.
Reality is a bitch. I learned that years ago when there were no buyers for my clubs. Deal with it.
-
The Lerner's thank you for your support when they owned the team.
-
I don't like the idea of personal seat licenses, but once enacted I don't think the teams can legally and/or arbitrarily do away with them. A personal seat license has monetary value and the purchaser then should have the right to sell that license (per team/league rules/stipulations) in the future. I think all Browns season ticket holders should file a class-action lawsuit against the team's owner to either reinstate the personnel seat license or to recieve compensation for the careless destruction of personal equity.
-
When the Browns become a consistent NFL powerhouse and people are falling all over themselves to buy tickets, i'll still be allowed to sell my PSLs at whatever price i'm able to get for them.
By then all the people around you will have bought their season tickets WITHOUT PSL's
Dude, I'm sorry for you that you haven't caught on to the concept of sarcasm. I even tried to help you out with the wink.
That aside, I stand by my comment that my PSLs were worth nothing before this announcement, so this means nothing to me. The bottom line is that the Browns and I entered into a signed contract. Neither of us have violated any parts of that contract. They provided no guarantees, and I knew that when I signed on. So did you (unless you didn't read it).
Dude, I'm sorry for you that you haven't caught on to the concept of sarcasm. I even tried to help you out with the wink.
That aside, I stand by my comment that my PSLs were worth nothing before this announcement, so this means nothing to me. The bottom line is that the Browns and I entered into a signed contract. Neither of us have violated any parts of that contract. They provided no guarantees, and I knew that when I signed on. So did you (unless you didn't read it).
I disagree with you 100%. You believed your PSL's were worth nothing because the Browns were losing and you could not sell them. You didn't want to keep paying for the tickets each year so you gave them away. Ok that is your decision. Now let's say that the Browns win the division this very year and go to the playoffs....Demand goes up and people want in!!!! The only way they can get in is to buy a PSL. If you still had yours you could now sell them (thus they would have value). But now becuase of the rule change they would have less value because people can just choose to sit elsewhere without having to buy a PSL.
While you and others like to say they have no value due to legal phrasing, they did indeed have a market value, when the market was up. Just like stock. Nobody wants to buy it while it is going down. But once it starts to soar upward they buy in. except now when they buy in they get to buy their stock with no per trade fee like i had to buy mine. Not a perfect example but you understand I am sure.
-
Dude, I'm sorry for you that you haven't caught on to the concept of sarcasm. I even tried to help you out with the wink.
That aside, I stand by my comment that my PSLs were worth nothing before this announcement, so this means nothing to me. The bottom line is that the Browns and I entered into a signed contract. Neither of us have violated any parts of that contract. They provided no guarantees, and I knew that when I signed on. So did you (unless you didn't read it).
I disagree with you 100%. You believed your PSL's were worth nothing because the Browns were losing and you could not sell them. You didn't want to keep paying for the tickets each year so you gave them away. Ok that is your decision. Now let's say that the Browns win the division this very year and go to the playoffs....Demand goes up and people want in!!!! The only way they can get in is to buy a PSL. If you still had yours you could now sell them (thus they would have value). But now becuase of the rule change they would have less value because people can just choose to sit elsewhere without having to buy a PSL.
While you and others like to say they have no value due to legal phrasing, they did indeed have a market value, when the market was up. Just like stock. Nobody wants to buy it while it is going down. But once it starts to soar upward they buy in. except now when they buy in they get to buy their stock with no per trade fee like i had to buy mine. Not a perfect example but you understand I am sure.
I disagree with you 100%. You believed your PSL's were worth nothing because the Browns were losing and you could not sell them. You didn't want to keep paying for the tickets each year so you gave them away. Ok that is your decision. Now let's say that the Browns win the division this very year and go to the playoffs....Demand goes up and people want in!!!! The only way they can get in is to buy a PSL. If you still had yours you could now sell them (thus they would have value). But now becuase of the rule change they would have less value because people can just choose to sit elsewhere without having to buy a PSL.
While you and others like to say they have no value due to legal phrasing, they did indeed have a market value, when the market was up. Just like stock. Nobody wants to buy it while it is going down. But once it starts to soar upward they buy in. except now when they buy in they get to buy their stock with no per trade fee like i had to buy mine. Not a perfect example but you understand I am sure.
If the Stadium fills this year (as I hope and many on this Board fear) and the team is good, then next year demand may exceed supply. That is what we all need for value to come back. The fact that my licenses have no value has nothing to do with legal phrasing. It has everything to do with supply and demand. This new announcement provides reason for hope (but not much). I'm glad they did this.
-
I don't like the idea of personal seat licenses, but once enacted I don't think the teams can legally and/or arbitrarily do away with them. A personal seat license has monetary value and the purchaser then should have the right to sell that license (per team/league rules/stipulations) in the future. I think all Browns season ticket holders should file a class-action lawsuit against the team's owner to either reinstate the personnel seat license or to recieve compensation for the careless destruction of personal equity.
Endymion said:
I don't like the idea of personal seat licenses, but once enacted I don't think the teams can legally and/or arbitrarily do away with them. A personal seat license has monetary value and the purchaser then should have the right to sell that license (per team/league rules/stipulations) in the future. I think all Browns season ticket holders should file a class-action lawsuit against the team's owner to either reinstate the personnel seat license or to recieve compensation for the careless destruction of personal equity.
OK....time out here. I am pissed, but not because of the PSL deal from a value standpoint. My issue is with moving my seats.
I know what I am talking about here.....there is no pending lawsuit, or possibility of one....that is all very clearly spelled out in the PSL agreement we all signed. I may be one of the movers of this thread, but not in this direction.
There is nothing there and foolish to seek that as a option. It isn't a option.
Just end that discussion now.
-
I'm pretty pissed off these new PSL changes. First of all, in typical clusterfuck fashion from our Browns front office, there isn't really a concrete plan to read to even know where us PSL holders currently stand. Can we still transfer the PSL's, and who exactly would even want to purchase a PSL from any of us at this point? I had a buyer for two of my seats just last week. They contacted me about them, they were very interested in them and I was contemplating selling ... Today? Today neither the prospect Buyer nor myself have any idea if the PSL even still exist to sell, or if it would be of anyone's advantage to even attempt to transfer at this point.
The Browns either have some fast explaining to do or I see lawsuits coming from every direction.
I bought in one section in 1999, I bought-out and transferred a second pair of PSL's a few years later. I sold a pair a few years after that, I relocated my seats to a higher priced section around 2008. The fucking Browns ONLY gave me what I paid for my PSL's in 1999 toward the INFLATED price of the new PSL in 2008 ... they basically made additional money off of me at a price adjusted to inflation/investment. I sit on those tickets and now I'm told they have zero value. They redeemed 'X' amount of money from me in 1999, then another profit from me at then current (higher) prices in 2008, yet a few more years down the line they take their ball and go home.
Sorry, the PSL is a "CONTRACT" between myself and the Browns. A 'contract' can not be broken by ONE single party, it takes two to tango.
-
Not surprising this fucking disgrace of an organization is shoving its fist just a little bit further up the asses of all the poor bastards that have actually shelled out money since 99 to watch this piece of shit team bumble around on the field like a bunch of fucking clowns and just generally embarrass the shit out of the city. I think the only decent thing to do, if they won't refund a percentage of the PSL, is to offer one year only steep discounts to all former PSL owners. Throw some incentives in, do something. After our 40 year old second year QB throws his first 20 or 30 passes to the opposing teams it'll be hard enough to get people to plunk down their cash to sit outside in the fucking cold in Ohio and drink shitty watered down beer.
I feel for you PSL owners. It's bullshit
Hello! It looks like you're interested in this conversation, but you don't have an account yet.
Getting fed up of having to scroll through the same posts each visit? When you register for an account, you'll always come back to exactly where you were before, and choose to be notified of new replies (either via email, or push notification). You'll also be able to save bookmarks and upvote posts to show your appreciation to other community members.
With your input, this post could be even better π
Register Login