Psl's No Longer Required At Stadium
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When the Browns become a consistent NFL powerhouse and people are falling all over themselves to buy tickets, i'll still be allowed to sell my PSLs at whatever price i'm able to get for them.
By then all the people around you will have bought their season tickets WITHOUT PSL's
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When the Browns become a consistent NFL powerhouse and people are falling all over themselves to buy tickets, i'll still be allowed to sell my PSLs at whatever price i'm able to get for them.
By then all the people around you will have bought their season tickets WITHOUT PSL's
When the Browns become a consistent NFL powerhouse and people are falling all over themselves to buy tickets, i'll still be allowed to sell my PSLs at whatever price i'm able to get for them.
By then all the people around you will have bought their season tickets WITHOUT PSL's
Dude, I'm sorry for you that you haven't caught on to the concept of sarcasm. I even tried to help you out with the wink.
That aside, I stand by my comment that my PSLs were worth nothing before this announcement, so this means nothing to me. The bottom line is that the Browns and I entered into a signed contract. Neither of us have violated any parts of that contract. They provided no guarantees, and I knew that when I signed on. So did you (unless you didn't read it).
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When the Browns become a consistent NFL powerhouse and people are falling all over themselves to buy tickets, i'll still be allowed to sell my PSLs at whatever price i'm able to get for them.
By then all the people around you will have bought their season tickets WITHOUT PSL's
Dude, I'm sorry for you that you haven't caught on to the concept of sarcasm. I even tried to help you out with the wink.
That aside, I stand by my comment that my PSLs were worth nothing before this announcement, so this means nothing to me. The bottom line is that the Browns and I entered into a signed contract. Neither of us have violated any parts of that contract. They provided no guarantees, and I knew that when I signed on. So did you (unless you didn't read it).
Dude, I'm sorry for you that you haven't caught on to the concept of sarcasm. I even tried to help you out with the wink.
That aside, I stand by my comment that my PSLs were worth nothing before this announcement, so this means nothing to me. The bottom line is that the Browns and I entered into a signed contract. Neither of us have violated any parts of that contract. They provided no guarantees, and I knew that when I signed on. So did you (unless you didn't read it).
so be happy when someone NEW gets tickets in your section, and they DON'T have to pay the PSL price you had to pay for THE SAME TICKETS.
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I definitely feel bad for nephew Dan, who just bought in last year for upper level end zone- if he had waited until this year, he could have had the same seats without buying a PSL. If there's ever a case for "I want my money back" that has to be it.
No doubt. Make no mistake. I knew all along the PSL's weren't worth a whole heck of a lot. I factored that in when I bought them. I figured if I got 10 years out of them, I was good, and I really feel that way. I don't have to have or count on getting the $3000 back, or even some portion. That is spent money. Anything I get back is simply bonus money....maybe all on Green in Vegas. (That could up the wine selection at a dinner or two)
It's more about guys like Dan who had to pay last year, or 2-3 years ago. My worry is I am afraid someone who has a few bucks has already snatched up seats I was wanting to have. Someone who didn't spend a damn dime to support the team a week ago, but today gets to slide in front of me because he/she can walk up to the window so to speak and secure the tickets, and I have to go through a process of seat relocation. That pisses me off.
Those of you who know me know I don't cuss much and type it less, but this has me aggravated. I'll wait for the process to unfold before my final feelings are expressed.
No doubt. Make no mistake. I knew all along the PSL's weren't worth a whole heck of a lot. I factored that in when I bought them. I figured if I got 10 years out of them, I was good, and I really feel that way. I don't have to have or count on getting the $3000 back, or even some portion. That is spent money. Anything I get back is simply bonus money....maybe all on Green in Vegas. (That could up the wine selection at a dinner or two)
It's more about guys like Dan who had to pay last year, or 2-3 years ago. My worry is I am afraid someone who has a few bucks has already snatched up seats I was wanting to have. Someone who didn't spend a damn dime to support the team a week ago, but today gets to slide in front of me because he/she can walk up to the window so to speak and secure the tickets, and I have to go through a process of seat relocation. That pisses me off.
Those of you who know me know I don't cuss much and type it less, but this has me aggravated. I'll wait for the process to unfold before my final feelings are expressed.
Well said Ballpeen
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"my PSLs were worth nothing before this announcement"
If that statmenet was true, then last week when you looked at season ticket prices, the Browns OFFICIAL website stated PSL's in my section were $1000 per seat?
According to the CLEVELAND BROWNS my PSL's were "WORTH" $1000 per seat.
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Dude, I'm sorry for you that you haven't caught on to the concept of sarcasm. I even tried to help you out with the wink.
That aside, I stand by my comment that my PSLs were worth nothing before this announcement, so this means nothing to me. The bottom line is that the Browns and I entered into a signed contract. Neither of us have violated any parts of that contract. They provided no guarantees, and I knew that when I signed on. So did you (unless you didn't read it).
so be happy when someone NEW gets tickets in your section, and they DON'T have to pay the PSL price you had to pay for THE SAME TICKETS.
so be happy when someone NEW gets tickets in your section, and they DON'T have to pay the PSL price you had to pay for THE SAME TICKETS.
Chill out. That has already happened.
I knew that the PSLs were worthless. I've "sold" a couple seats to others that I know for $0. There have been no independent buyers, so why not "sell" them guys to guys i know.
Reality is a bitch. I learned that years ago when there were no buyers for my clubs. Deal with it.
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The Lerner's thank you for your support when they owned the team.
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I don't like the idea of personal seat licenses, but once enacted I don't think the teams can legally and/or arbitrarily do away with them. A personal seat license has monetary value and the purchaser then should have the right to sell that license (per team/league rules/stipulations) in the future. I think all Browns season ticket holders should file a class-action lawsuit against the team's owner to either reinstate the personnel seat license or to recieve compensation for the careless destruction of personal equity.
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When the Browns become a consistent NFL powerhouse and people are falling all over themselves to buy tickets, i'll still be allowed to sell my PSLs at whatever price i'm able to get for them.
By then all the people around you will have bought their season tickets WITHOUT PSL's
Dude, I'm sorry for you that you haven't caught on to the concept of sarcasm. I even tried to help you out with the wink.
That aside, I stand by my comment that my PSLs were worth nothing before this announcement, so this means nothing to me. The bottom line is that the Browns and I entered into a signed contract. Neither of us have violated any parts of that contract. They provided no guarantees, and I knew that when I signed on. So did you (unless you didn't read it).
Dude, I'm sorry for you that you haven't caught on to the concept of sarcasm. I even tried to help you out with the wink.
That aside, I stand by my comment that my PSLs were worth nothing before this announcement, so this means nothing to me. The bottom line is that the Browns and I entered into a signed contract. Neither of us have violated any parts of that contract. They provided no guarantees, and I knew that when I signed on. So did you (unless you didn't read it).
I disagree with you 100%. You believed your PSL's were worth nothing because the Browns were losing and you could not sell them. You didn't want to keep paying for the tickets each year so you gave them away. Ok that is your decision. Now let's say that the Browns win the division this very year and go to the playoffs....Demand goes up and people want in!!!! The only way they can get in is to buy a PSL. If you still had yours you could now sell them (thus they would have value). But now becuase of the rule change they would have less value because people can just choose to sit elsewhere without having to buy a PSL.
While you and others like to say they have no value due to legal phrasing, they did indeed have a market value, when the market was up. Just like stock. Nobody wants to buy it while it is going down. But once it starts to soar upward they buy in. except now when they buy in they get to buy their stock with no per trade fee like i had to buy mine. Not a perfect example but you understand I am sure.
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Dude, I'm sorry for you that you haven't caught on to the concept of sarcasm. I even tried to help you out with the wink.
That aside, I stand by my comment that my PSLs were worth nothing before this announcement, so this means nothing to me. The bottom line is that the Browns and I entered into a signed contract. Neither of us have violated any parts of that contract. They provided no guarantees, and I knew that when I signed on. So did you (unless you didn't read it).
I disagree with you 100%. You believed your PSL's were worth nothing because the Browns were losing and you could not sell them. You didn't want to keep paying for the tickets each year so you gave them away. Ok that is your decision. Now let's say that the Browns win the division this very year and go to the playoffs....Demand goes up and people want in!!!! The only way they can get in is to buy a PSL. If you still had yours you could now sell them (thus they would have value). But now becuase of the rule change they would have less value because people can just choose to sit elsewhere without having to buy a PSL.
While you and others like to say they have no value due to legal phrasing, they did indeed have a market value, when the market was up. Just like stock. Nobody wants to buy it while it is going down. But once it starts to soar upward they buy in. except now when they buy in they get to buy their stock with no per trade fee like i had to buy mine. Not a perfect example but you understand I am sure.
I disagree with you 100%. You believed your PSL's were worth nothing because the Browns were losing and you could not sell them. You didn't want to keep paying for the tickets each year so you gave them away. Ok that is your decision. Now let's say that the Browns win the division this very year and go to the playoffs....Demand goes up and people want in!!!! The only way they can get in is to buy a PSL. If you still had yours you could now sell them (thus they would have value). But now becuase of the rule change they would have less value because people can just choose to sit elsewhere without having to buy a PSL.
While you and others like to say they have no value due to legal phrasing, they did indeed have a market value, when the market was up. Just like stock. Nobody wants to buy it while it is going down. But once it starts to soar upward they buy in. except now when they buy in they get to buy their stock with no per trade fee like i had to buy mine. Not a perfect example but you understand I am sure.
If the Stadium fills this year (as I hope and many on this Board fear) and the team is good, then next year demand may exceed supply. That is what we all need for value to come back. The fact that my licenses have no value has nothing to do with legal phrasing. It has everything to do with supply and demand. This new announcement provides reason for hope (but not much). I'm glad they did this.
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I don't like the idea of personal seat licenses, but once enacted I don't think the teams can legally and/or arbitrarily do away with them. A personal seat license has monetary value and the purchaser then should have the right to sell that license (per team/league rules/stipulations) in the future. I think all Browns season ticket holders should file a class-action lawsuit against the team's owner to either reinstate the personnel seat license or to recieve compensation for the careless destruction of personal equity.
Endymion said:
I don't like the idea of personal seat licenses, but once enacted I don't think the teams can legally and/or arbitrarily do away with them. A personal seat license has monetary value and the purchaser then should have the right to sell that license (per team/league rules/stipulations) in the future. I think all Browns season ticket holders should file a class-action lawsuit against the team's owner to either reinstate the personnel seat license or to recieve compensation for the careless destruction of personal equity.
OK....time out here. I am pissed, but not because of the PSL deal from a value standpoint. My issue is with moving my seats.
I know what I am talking about here.....there is no pending lawsuit, or possibility of one....that is all very clearly spelled out in the PSL agreement we all signed. I may be one of the movers of this thread, but not in this direction.
There is nothing there and foolish to seek that as a option. It isn't a option.
Just end that discussion now.
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I'm pretty pissed off these new PSL changes. First of all, in typical clusterfuck fashion from our Browns front office, there isn't really a concrete plan to read to even know where us PSL holders currently stand. Can we still transfer the PSL's, and who exactly would even want to purchase a PSL from any of us at this point? I had a buyer for two of my seats just last week. They contacted me about them, they were very interested in them and I was contemplating selling ... Today? Today neither the prospect Buyer nor myself have any idea if the PSL even still exist to sell, or if it would be of anyone's advantage to even attempt to transfer at this point.
The Browns either have some fast explaining to do or I see lawsuits coming from every direction.
I bought in one section in 1999, I bought-out and transferred a second pair of PSL's a few years later. I sold a pair a few years after that, I relocated my seats to a higher priced section around 2008. The fucking Browns ONLY gave me what I paid for my PSL's in 1999 toward the INFLATED price of the new PSL in 2008 ... they basically made additional money off of me at a price adjusted to inflation/investment. I sit on those tickets and now I'm told they have zero value. They redeemed 'X' amount of money from me in 1999, then another profit from me at then current (higher) prices in 2008, yet a few more years down the line they take their ball and go home.
Sorry, the PSL is a "CONTRACT" between myself and the Browns. A 'contract' can not be broken by ONE single party, it takes two to tango.
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Not surprising this fucking disgrace of an organization is shoving its fist just a little bit further up the asses of all the poor bastards that have actually shelled out money since 99 to watch this piece of shit team bumble around on the field like a bunch of fucking clowns and just generally embarrass the shit out of the city. I think the only decent thing to do, if they won't refund a percentage of the PSL, is to offer one year only steep discounts to all former PSL owners. Throw some incentives in, do something. After our 40 year old second year QB throws his first 20 or 30 passes to the opposing teams it'll be hard enough to get people to plunk down their cash to sit outside in the fucking cold in Ohio and drink shitty watered down beer.
I feel for you PSL owners. It's bullshit
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I disagree with you 100%. You believed your PSL's were worth nothing because the Browns were losing and you could not sell them. You didn't want to keep paying for the tickets each year so you gave them away. Ok that is your decision. Now let's say that the Browns win the division this very year and go to the playoffs....Demand goes up and people want in!!!! The only way they can get in is to buy a PSL. If you still had yours you could now sell them (thus they would have value). But now becuase of the rule change they would have less value because people can just choose to sit elsewhere without having to buy a PSL.
While you and others like to say they have no value due to legal phrasing, they did indeed have a market value, when the market was up. Just like stock. Nobody wants to buy it while it is going down. But once it starts to soar upward they buy in. except now when they buy in they get to buy their stock with no per trade fee like i had to buy mine. Not a perfect example but you understand I am sure.
If the Stadium fills this year (as I hope and many on this Board fear) and the team is good, then next year demand may exceed supply. That is what we all need for value to come back. The fact that my licenses have no value has nothing to do with legal phrasing. It has everything to do with supply and demand. This new announcement provides reason for hope (but not much). I'm glad they did this.
If the Stadium fills this year (as I hope and many on this Board fear) and the team is good, then next year demand may exceed supply.
Demand for what? Seats in the Cleveland cold to watch a team who isn't in playoff contention get their asses kicked?
In terms of organizational shittyness, the Jets stand alone, but we're first in their rearview mirror
A goddamn Browns' seat isn't worth the shitty chinese plastic its made out of
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If true ... i feel they should let current season ticket holders move to upgraded sections and not have to pay the psl difference.
Season ticket, what are your thoughts?
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I'm kinda in the same frame of mind as Ballpeen. When I got the PSLs I just assumed that I would pass on the tickets to one of my kids when I couldn't attend games anymore. I have thought of selling my PSLs in the past but I always talked myself down off that ledge. However, the fact that I did not sell them does not equate to them having no value. Until now. The Browns hold all the cards here, unfortunately. Unless virtually all the PSL holders could get together and somehow embarass them in a national public forum, which will never happen, this idiotic decision will stand because we have virtually no legal rights that I can see.
If they follow through with the no PSL decision what they should do is get rid of all PSLs period. Of course, then they would have to accomodate the current PSL holders in some way or there would be a bunch of lawsuits, meritless or not. Perhaps rebating back a prorated amount of what the last stated value of the PSL? A special catered PSL holders only Draft party at the stadium? Free game day food for every year you've had the seats? A hand job? Something. Anything.
Am I pissed? You bet. But I learned a long, long time ago that life is very seldom fair. But I also was taught that loyalty should be rewarded if possible. Apparently, Joe Banner and Uncle Jimmy never learned that last lesson. I won't hold a grudge here. But I won't forget either.
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I held 4 really good seats at the old stadium, when the Lerner's decided to have PSL's and it was nobody forcing that issue except a greedy billionaire wanting to bleed his current fan base of more money, I had to opt out of my seats. THANK YOU JH for removing that barrier as I have rejoined the ranks of season ticket holders.
I feel for the people that paid the price but you had the choice as I did.
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Bought 3 psl's in 1999 for $1800 and sold them a few years ago on this site for $2100. Glad I got a nice return on my INVESTMENT yes Ballpeen, INVESTMENT. Feel sorry for you guys that are getting bent over by the Browns now. I think this is a bad move on the teams part. If there was not a financial obligation to buy season tickets or lose your PSL INVESTMENT the stadium would have been empty long ago after the 10th losing season or so. By saying yours PSL's are valueless there is no incentive to keep buying tickets unless they improve the product (which is what I have been waiting for for 14 years).
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In terms of PSLs, the owner shouldn't just render them worthless to increase attendance. In order to keep lawsuits to a minimum, the Brown's should do the following:
Unlicensed Seats:
1) Season tickets awarded by lottery. No garauntee you will get them next year and no choice of seating awarded. Option to buy a seat license for your seat at end of the season.
2) Unlicensed ticket holders will pay face value for the ticket.
Licensed Seats:
1) Can select/upgrade choice of seats. (Extra charges may apply).
2) Get discounted value of ticket(s), say 10 or 15% off face value.
3) Can sell/trade/barter your license at designated times during the year. Failure to buy season tickets results in forfieture of license. (As far as I know this has already been in effect).
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People with PSL's can still recoup their psl money if they find a buyer willing to pay the price. Money is lost only if you let it go.
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