Take A "chance" On Warmack
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I advocate trading back, but I still don't advocate taking a guard when we have much more pressing needs. Our offensive line grades out higher than our linebacking corps any day of the week. So do our corners. We have to address the weakest parts of our team first.
Our biggest weakness is our pass rush (or lack thereof). There are three or four great pass rushers and you'd rather us take an offensive guard or a #2 CB? That's just ridiculous. Warmack only marginally improves our offensive production, we're still going to have DL blast through Luavao/Pinkston or come off the edge around Schwartz. Milliner only marginally improves our defensive production, QB's are still going to have 7-8 seconds to throw the ball because our pass rush is nonexistant. We're only as strong as our weakest link, taking a #2 CB or an G isn't going to have as much of an impact on our performance as taking a pass rusher.
I understand the appeal of wanting to shore up our offensive line and have a fantastic unit. I am an offensive lineman, nobody values the importance of the offensive line as much as I do. But I am also a realist, and we're lacking in too many other areas to worry about building the best offensive line right now.
Getting pressure on the QB makes our coverage inherently better.
Shit doesn't gather in rivers. It gathers on the shores of Lake Erie, and then they build it into a town named Cleveland.
I agree with u. Pass rush is number one concern but if we go into the draft having to hope we get a guy that is a game changer that means we came up empty in FA. This is unexceptable. Kruger and Avril should be aquired. They have to get one at least. And im not writting sheard off either.
95% of any years draft picks need 2-4 years to be impact. And if Lombardi and Banner do their jobs in FA ur problemat pass rush should not b as severe at the time of the draft. Leaving options open. There will b rushers in rounds 2 and 3 to groom. We need to fill not to build on defense.
I agree with u. Pass rush is number one concern but if we go into the draft having to hope we get a guy that is a game changer that means we came up empty in FA. This is unexceptable. Kruger and Avril should be aquired. They have to get one at least. And im not writting sheard off either.
95% of any years draft picks need 2-4 years to be impact. And if Lombardi and Banner do their jobs in FA ur problemat pass rush should not b as severe at the time of the draft. Leaving options open. There will b rushers in rounds 2 and 3 to groom. We need to fill not to build on defense.
But why pay a FA LB an obscene amount of money when we can get a younger version for pennies on the dollar? The rookie salary cap makes it beneficial to pick skill positions early.
We can get a good FA guard for a fraction of the price of a FA LB. I agree we need to target Kruger and Avril, but they are still question marks. Avril would be a convert and Kruger would be going from benefitting from a great surrounding crew to being our main guy.
I'm awesome, and I fuck dolphins. Ghoolie 12/2/2012: I have absolutely no skills, training or pride -
I agree with u. Pass rush is number one concern but if we go into the draft having to hope we get a guy that is a game changer that means we came up empty in FA. This is unexceptable. Kruger and Avril should be aquired. They have to get one at least. And im not writting sheard off either.
95% of any years draft picks need 2-4 years to be impact. And if Lombardi and Banner do their jobs in FA ur problemat pass rush should not b as severe at the time of the draft. Leaving options open. There will b rushers in rounds 2 and 3 to groom. We need to fill not to build on defense.
But why pay a FA LB an obscene amount of money when we can get a younger version for pennies on the dollar? The rookie salary cap makes it beneficial to pick skill positions early.
We can get a good FA guard for a fraction of the price of a FA LB. I agree we need to target Kruger and Avril, but they are still question marks. Avril would be a convert and Kruger would be going from benefitting from a great surrounding crew to being our main guy.
idk man.....we ALWAYS draft the position we need. For once i would like to spend for it. FA's dont work out we can just cut em no money guarrentted. We draft we kinda married to the pick for a few years. And in a guard leša chance of a bust. Just seems like its business as usual either way u go i guessBut why pay a FA LB an obscene amount of money when we can get a younger version for pennies on the dollar? The rookie salary cap makes it beneficial to pick skill positions early.
We can get a good FA guard for a fraction of the price of a FA LB. I agree we need to target Kruger and Avril, but they are still question marks. Avril would be a convert and Kruger would be going from benefitting from a great surrounding crew to being our main guy.
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i'm totally on the fence on this topic. hopefully we trade back (if possible) and get a second round pick. if the best player available is warmack then we take him. i have advocated for a couple of years now to finish building one side of the team, either defense or offense. last year i thought we were only a couple of picks away from finishing off the defensive side of the ball, but now with the defensive scheme changing we are farther away than before. if adding a guard finishes off the offense (QB check, running back(s) check, WRs check, TE (i thought check), offensive line besides right side guard check=we need a guard.
now on the other hand the defense we need LBers (plural) CB(plural) S(plural). and the talent from the LB/DE position of where we would pick at 6 and a position in the second wouldn't be that far off.
that being said if jones or milner are there at 6 and we have no offers, we gotta pounce. i'm not sold on ansah at all.
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Not so sure switching to a 3-4 really sets us back all that much.
Even if we were to stick with the 4-3 we'd need to add another 1-2 linebackers anyhow.
If Sheard can make the switch to LB we are pretty much in the same boat, needing a free safety and corner.
I'm just worried about Jackon in the 3-4 bc he's a smaller guy and they say he doesn't shed blocks well so he might not be nearly as effective as he was in 4-3.
I know we need more talent on D but I'm starting to warm up to Warmack. Let's be honest our O-Line is sub par at run blocking, we need a mauler type guy with this power running game between the tackles.
You can say that 6 is not worth a guard but look at it as protecting your investment in Richardson, if Warmack can help to unlock Richardsons potential in Norvs offense than I definitely think he's worth it at 6.
About trading down I just don't see how it could happen, I think our only shot is that the Chiefs don't take a tackle or some team really wants Gino Smith..even then I doubt they'd be willing to give up a 2nd rounder in this years draft.
"All Truth Passes Through Three stages. First, It Is Ridiculed, Second It Is Violently Opposed, And Third, It Is Accepted As Self-Evident" ~Arthur Schopenhauer -
Not so sure switching to a 3-4 really sets us back all that much.
Even if we were to stick with the 4-3 we'd need to add another 1-2 linebackers anyhow.
If Sheard can make the switch to LB we are pretty much in the same boat, needing a free safety and corner.
I'm just worried about Jackon in the 3-4 bc he's a smaller guy and they say he doesn't shed blocks well so he might not be nearly as effective as he was in 4-3.
I know we need more talent on D but I'm starting to warm up to Warmack. Let's be honest our O-Line is sub par at run blocking, we need a mauler type guy with this power running game between the tackles.
You can say that 6 is not worth a guard but look at it as protecting your investment in Richardson, if Warmack can help to unlock Richardsons potential in Norvs offense than I definitely think he's worth it at 6.
About trading down I just don't see how it could happen, I think our only shot is that the Chiefs don't take a tackle or some team really wants Gino Smith..even then I doubt they'd be willing to give up a 2nd rounder in this years draft.
Not so sure switching to a 3-4 really sets us back all that much.
Even if we were to stick with the 4-3 we'd need to add another 1-2 linebackers anyhow.
If Sheard can make the switch to LB we are pretty much in the same boat, needing a free safety and corner.
I'm just worried about Jackon in the 3-4 bc he's a smaller guy and they say he doesn't shed blocks well so he might not be nearly as effective as he was in 4-3.
I know we need more talent on D but I'm starting to warm up to Warmack. Let's be honest our O-Line is sub par at run blocking, we need a mauler type guy with this power running game between the tackles.
You can say that 6 is not worth a guard but look at it as protecting your investment in Richardson, if Warmack can help to unlock Richardsons potential in Norvs offense than I definitely think he's worth it at 6.
About trading down I just don't see how it could happen, I think our only shot is that the Chiefs don't take a tackle or some team really wants Gino Smith..even then I doubt they'd be willing to give up a 2nd rounder in this years draft.
Warmack is the only offensive talent in the draft that would make an immediate impact pretty much for the reasons u just stated with the run game and all.
And if he's as good as projected look out this line is playoff caliber and thomas is the oldest piece on it.
We have to spend money via collective barganing agreement. A bunch of defense and jermical finley would look sweet.
We dont have to ask for the farm for moving down. Just some mid rounds maybe a future pick or two. Draft heavy d with the rest of draft for depth and projects.
Get these pieces ive suggested and u would have given weeden more than a chance to succed. U will know by this time next year where to go as far as the qb position and guess what u can go heavy in defense again in 2014 draft.
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Warmack is a wild card like everybody else. I hear "sure-fire, NFL ready" and think of Ryan Leaf and Tony Mandarich. I understand its improbable, but it's still possible.
We can sign Levitre for half the price of some of these LB FA, leaving us more cap room for other players. Kruger and Avril will both be looking for anywhere from $10-13 million a season. Avril made $11 million this last season, so he may try to hold out for big money.
In comparison, the highest paid guard in the NFL, Carl Nicks, signed a contract last year that pays him around $9 million a year. Levitre won't command that contract, as he is not the best G in the NFL and every team knows this.
Realistically, we could get Levitre for $7 million a year and add a pass rusher at #6, with a rookie contract that is worth nothing. This would leave is with a boatload of cap space to add to other positions of need.
This is assuming, of course, that any free agents would even want to come to Cleveland...which most won't.
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In a draft very deep in OG's... seems that the Browns don't have the luxury
only having an OG need.... it's surely defense in the first round.
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A guy that WILL HELP Trich and any qb score more points cant help the Brown's win?
The top 20 pass rushers in the NFL Draft are interchangeableand not even as close to the talent that chance is for his position. there are plenty of affordable ready to go pass rushers in free agency that are better than any one or two draft picks.
even Todd McShay who has the Browns taking chance says that he is the best guard that he is ever scoutedI don't hear him saying that about any pass rusher in this draft. getting Krueger and avril as well as a cornerback in free agency makes a guard pick plus 2 or 3 more pics to pick up more pass rushers or secondary is far from a wasted pic.
not that your opinion is wrong UNFORTUNALLY you're probably right
A guy that WILL HELP Trich and any qb score more points cant help the Brown's win?
The top 20 pass rushers in the NFL Draft are interchangeableand not even as close to the talent that chance is for his position. there are plenty of affordable ready to go pass rushers in free agency that are better than any one or two draft picks.
even Todd McShay who has the Browns taking chance says that he is the best guard that he is ever scoutedI don't hear him saying that about any pass rusher in this draft. getting Krueger and avril as well as a cornerback in free agency makes a guard pick plus 2 or 3 more pics to pick up more pass rushers or secondary is far from a wasted pic.
not that your opinion is wrong UNFORTUNALLY you're probably right
I was unaware that OG touched the football. OL is not the way to go this year. We can solidify with a third or fourth rounder and still fill our needs in the top of the draft. I feel like Ghoolie, but in this situation he would be right for once. OL are a dime a dozen and I don't want us wasting #6 overall on some fatass who will NEVER touch the football.
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I would settle for levitre. Gotta do something there. Better guard play will help running game
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I would settle for levitre. Gotta do something there. Better guard play will help running game
I would settle for levitre. Gotta do something there. Better guard play will help running game
the run game has suffered from our weak right side. i mean how obvious does it have to be until the problem is fixed? our RBs will keep getting stuffed in the backfield until we get some help there either FA or draft.
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I'm thinking Vasquez or Schwartz in free agency. Not gonna spend a #6 on a guard. No way.
Avril and a top corner seem to be getting damn close to sure things. Could be wrong, Avril could end up in Indy. We just need to win some of these by paying more money. Has to be spent, get the guys you want.
Avril and Sheard are classic 3-4 transitions, light and athletic DEs, woth did well in position drills in Mobile. Most expected Avril to to to a 3-4 team (including him) and Steelers were eyeing Sheard in second round, talked about trading up.
DQJ, Gocong, and Rubin have played 3-4. Sheard stood up half the time last season. Taylor has played multiple fronts. Winn seems born to be a 3-4 5-tech, at least to me. I think JMJ and Robertson are athletic, explosive guys and we'll find places for them. Robertson probably in nickels.
Everybody plays multi-fronts now. Not quite the harsh transition it used to be.
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I would settle for levitre. Gotta do something there. Better guard play will help running game
the run game has suffered from our weak right side. i mean how obvious does it have to be until the problem is fixed? our RBs will keep getting stuffed in the backfield until we get some help there either FA or draft.
the run game has suffered from our weak right side. i mean how obvious does it have to be until the problem is fixed? our RBs will keep getting stuffed in the backfield until we get some help there either FA or draft.
Richardson still rushed for nearly 1,000 yards and 11 TDs, with an average of 3.6 YPC.
While adding a solid guard should and probably will help, it's not like that is our #1 concern. Our #1 concern should be adding enough LB's to fill out our scheme, which as of the current moment is something we do not have.
To me, our best bet would be to address OL via FA, then look to adding skill players via the draft.
Here's three realistic contracts for three FA's we could use:
Andy Levitre- 6 years/$45 million 2013 cap hit=$12.5 million
Paul Kruger- 5 years/$50 million 2013 cap hit=$12 million
Dashon Goldson- 6 years/$50 million 2013 cap hit=$15 million
I'm assuming a few things in figuring these contracts:
1) We will have to drastically overpay for each of these FA's.
2) We will offer large signing bonuses to entice them because that will help in structuring contracts for the future
3) Each of these FA's is looking to be the in the top 5 of their positional contact averages
Even with those outrageous cap hits for this upcoming season, that still leaves us with around $10 million of free cap space to find some second tier, situational and depth players.
Attached is the breakdown of their contracts. Granted, this is all hypothetical. I just structured their contracts similar to some of the top paid players in their respective positions.
I'm awesome, and I fuck dolphins. Ghoolie 12/2/2012: I have absolutely no skills, training or pride -
the run game has suffered from our weak right side. i mean how obvious does it have to be until the problem is fixed? our RBs will keep getting stuffed in the backfield until we get some help there either FA or draft.
Richardson still rushed for nearly 1,000 yards and 11 TDs, with an average of 3.6 YPC.
While adding a solid guard should and probably will help, it's not like that is our #1 concern. Our #1 concern should be adding enough LB's to fill out our scheme, which as of the current moment is something we do not have.
To me, our best bet would be to address OL via FA, then look to adding skill players via the draft.
Here's three realistic contracts for three FA's we could use:
Andy Levitre- 6 years/$45 million 2013 cap hit=$12.5 million
Paul Kruger- 5 years/$50 million 2013 cap hit=$12 million
Dashon Goldson- 6 years/$50 million 2013 cap hit=$15 million
I'm assuming a few things in figuring these contracts:
1) We will have to drastically overpay for each of these FA's.
2) We will offer large signing bonuses to entice them because that will help in structuring contracts for the future
3) Each of these FA's is looking to be the in the top 5 of their positional contact averages
Even with those outrageous cap hits for this upcoming season, that still leaves us with around $10 million of free cap space to find some second tier, situational and depth players.
Attached is the breakdown of their contracts. Granted, this is all hypothetical. I just structured their contracts similar to some of the top paid players in their respective positions.
i would take those FA and roll maybe look into gamble for 4.5-5 mill a yearRichardson still rushed for nearly 1,000 yards and 11 TDs, with an average of 3.6 YPC.
While adding a solid guard should and probably will help, it's not like that is our #1 concern. Our #1 concern should be adding enough LB's to fill out our scheme, which as of the current moment is something we do not have.
To me, our best bet would be to address OL via FA, then look to adding skill players via the draft.
Here's three realistic contracts for three FA's we could use:
Andy Levitre- 6 years/$45 million 2013 cap hit=$12.5 million
Paul Kruger- 5 years/$50 million 2013 cap hit=$12 million
Dashon Goldson- 6 years/$50 million 2013 cap hit=$15 million
I'm assuming a few things in figuring these contracts:
1) We will have to drastically overpay for each of these FA's.
2) We will offer large signing bonuses to entice them because that will help in structuring contracts for the future
3) Each of these FA's is looking to be the in the top 5 of their positional contact averages
Even with those outrageous cap hits for this upcoming season, that still leaves us with around $10 million of free cap space to find some second tier, situational and depth players.
Attached is the breakdown of their contracts. Granted, this is all hypothetical. I just structured their contracts similar to some of the top paid players in their respective positions.
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Not so sure switching to a 3-4 really sets us back all that much.
Even if we were to stick with the 4-3 we'd need to add another 1-2 linebackers anyhow.
If Sheard can make the switch to LB we are pretty much in the same boat, needing a free safety and corner.
I'm just worried about Jackon in the 3-4 bc he's a smaller guy and they say he doesn't shed blocks well so he might not be nearly as effective as he was in 4-3.
I know we need more talent on D but I'm starting to warm up to Warmack. Let's be honest our O-Line is sub par at run blocking, we need a mauler type guy with this power running game between the tackles.
You can say that 6 is not worth a guard but look at it as protecting your investment in Richardson, if Warmack can help to unlock Richardsons potential in Norvs offense than I definitely think he's worth it at 6.
About trading down I just don't see how it could happen, I think our only shot is that the Chiefs don't take a tackle or some team really wants Gino Smith..even then I doubt they'd be willing to give up a 2nd rounder in this years draft.
Not so sure switching to a 3-4 really sets us back all that much.
Even if we were to stick with the 4-3 we'd need to add another 1-2 linebackers anyhow.
If Sheard can make the switch to LB we are pretty much in the same boat, needing a free safety and corner.
I'm just worried about Jackon in the 3-4 bc he's a smaller guy and they say he doesn't shed blocks well so he might not be nearly as effective as he was in 4-3.
I know we need more talent on D but I'm starting to warm up to Warmack. Let's be honest our O-Line is sub par at run blocking, we need a mauler type guy with this power running game between the tackles.
You can say that 6 is not worth a guard but look at it as protecting your investment in Richardson, if Warmack can help to unlock Richardsons potential in Norvs offense than I definitely think he's worth it at 6.
About trading down I just don't see how it could happen, I think our only shot is that the Chiefs don't take a tackle or some team really wants Gino Smith..even then I doubt they'd be willing to give up a 2nd rounder in this years draft.
Warmack blocked for Richardson at Alabama too, I'm sure TR wouldn't mind this pick at all.
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Not so sure switching to a 3-4 really sets us back all that much.
Even if we were to stick with the 4-3 we'd need to add another 1-2 linebackers anyhow.
If Sheard can make the switch to LB we are pretty much in the same boat, needing a free safety and corner.
I'm just worried about Jackon in the 3-4 bc he's a smaller guy and they say he doesn't shed blocks well so he might not be nearly as effective as he was in 4-3.
I know we need more talent on D but I'm starting to warm up to Warmack. Let's be honest our O-Line is sub par at run blocking, we need a mauler type guy with this power running game between the tackles.
You can say that 6 is not worth a guard but look at it as protecting your investment in Richardson, if Warmack can help to unlock Richardsons potential in Norvs offense than I definitely think he's worth it at 6.
About trading down I just don't see how it could happen, I think our only shot is that the Chiefs don't take a tackle or some team really wants Gino Smith..even then I doubt they'd be willing to give up a 2nd rounder in this years draft.
Warmack blocked for Richardson at Alabama too, I'm sure TR wouldn't mind this pick at all.
Warmack blocked for Richardson at Alabama too, I'm sure TR wouldn't mind this pick at all.
And the Brown's had some of the worst guard play in the league. Draft warmack put him next to Swartz and we will not have to draft another lineman till thomas retires. Warmack has and will block every pass rusher in this draft
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Warmack blocked for Richardson at Alabama too, I'm sure TR wouldn't mind this pick at all.
And the Brown's had some of the worst guard play in the league. Draft warmack put him next to Swartz and we will not have to draft another lineman till thomas retires. Warmack has and will block every pass rusher in this draft
And the Brown's had some of the worst guard play in the league. Draft warmack put him next to Swartz and we will not have to draft another lineman till thomas retires. Warmack has and will block every pass rusher in this draft
Not sure that guards take care of edge pass rushers. Warmack will not be a top six pick, we have much bigger needs
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I agree with u. Pass rush is number one concern but if we go into the draft having to hope we get a guy that is a game changer that means we came up empty in FA. This is unexceptable. Kruger and Avril should be aquired. They have to get one at least. And im not writting sheard off either.
95% of any years draft picks need 2-4 years to be impact. And if Lombardi and Banner do their jobs in FA ur problemat pass rush should not b as severe at the time of the draft. Leaving options open. There will b rushers in rounds 2 and 3 to groom. We need to fill not to build on defense.
But why pay a FA LB an obscene amount of money when we can get a younger version for pennies on the dollar? The rookie salary cap makes it beneficial to pick skill positions early.
We can get a good FA guard for a fraction of the price of a FA LB. I agree we need to target Kruger and Avril, but they are still question marks. Avril would be a convert and Kruger would be going from benefitting from a great surrounding crew to being our main guy.
But why pay a FA LB an obscene amount of money when we can get a younger version for pennies on the dollar? The rookie salary cap makes it beneficial to pick skill positions early.
So i guess you could say that the price to trade up with another team is going to be more expensive for the team trading up than in years past because of the new rookie salary cap.
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