Take A "chance" On Warmack
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I just looked out of curiosity to see when the last guard was taken in the top ten of the first rd. Now I did not include any supplemental picks from expansion teams.
I went back to the late 70s and found 3
1986 9th overall John Rienstra , steelers
1983 9th overall Bruce Mattews, oilers
1982 8th overall Mike Munchak, oilers
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i would take those FA and roll maybe look into gamble for 4.5-5 mill a yearRichardson still rushed for nearly 1,000 yards and 11 TDs, with an average of 3.6 YPC.
While adding a solid guard should and probably will help, it's not like that is our #1 concern. Our #1 concern should be adding enough LB's to fill out our scheme, which as of the current moment is something we do not have.
To me, our best bet would be to address OL via FA, then look to adding skill players via the draft.
Here's three realistic contracts for three FA's we could use:
Andy Levitre- 6 years/$45 million 2013 cap hit=$12.5 million
Paul Kruger- 5 years/$50 million 2013 cap hit=$12 million
Dashon Goldson- 6 years/$50 million 2013 cap hit=$15 million
I'm assuming a few things in figuring these contracts:
1) We will have to drastically overpay for each of these FA's.
2) We will offer large signing bonuses to entice them because that will help in structuring contracts for the future
3) Each of these FA's is looking to be the in the top 5 of their positional contact averages
Even with those outrageous cap hits for this upcoming season, that still leaves us with around $10 million of free cap space to find some second tier, situational and depth players.
Attached is the breakdown of their contracts. Granted, this is all hypothetical. I just structured their contracts similar to some of the top paid players in their respective positions.
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But why pay a FA LB an obscene amount of money when we can get a younger version for pennies on the dollar? The rookie salary cap makes it beneficial to pick skill positions early.
So i guess you could say that the price to trade up with another team is going to be more expensive for the team trading up than in years past because of the new rookie salary cap.
So i guess you could say that the price to trade up with another team is going to be more expensive for the team trading up than in years past because of the new rookie salary cap.
if you stay at 6 your ultimately be reaching for a player because the top 5 players in this draft the Browns do not need or alternately people don't think that position should be that high. the Browns can drop back out of the top 10 take war Mac and get a second round pick or a third and fourth round pick. moving back to select a guard you get a top 5 Scouts Inc player and more mid round picks. Jarvis Jones is the best 43 outside linebacker whereas the best 34 outside linebacker comes from Oregon In dion Jordan.and he is a late first rounder at best
"We are Americans. We don't quit doing something because it's wrong. We just keep doing the wrong thing till it turns out right." Browns maybe the most American Football team ever. -
I just looked out of curiosity to see when the last guard was taken in the top ten of the first rd. Now I did not include any supplemental picks from expansion teams.
I went back to the late 70s and found 3
1986 9th overall John Rienstra , steelers
1983 9th overall Bruce Mattews, oilers
1982 8th overall Mike Munchak, oilers
I just looked out of curiosity to see when the last guard was taken in the top ten of the first rd. Now I did not include any supplemental picks from expansion teams.
I went back to the late 70s and found 3
1986 9th overall John Rienstra , steelers
1983 9th overall Bruce Mattews, oilers
1982 8th overall Mike Munchak, oilers
Go back a bit further and you have John Hannah, who I believe was drafted in Top 5 or 6. He may be considered the best of all time.
As I said earlier, I would not object to taking Warmack at #6....if the Browns really did a job of filling their defensive holes in FA. I don't know that they can do that though.
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So i guess you could say that the price to trade up with another team is going to be more expensive for the team trading up than in years past because of the new rookie salary cap.
if you stay at 6 your ultimately be reaching for a player because the top 5 players in this draft the Browns do not need or alternately people don't think that position should be that high. the Browns can drop back out of the top 10 take war Mac and get a second round pick or a third and fourth round pick. moving back to select a guard you get a top 5 Scouts Inc player and more mid round picks. Jarvis Jones is the best 43 outside linebacker whereas the best 34 outside linebacker comes from Oregon In dion Jordan.and he is a late first rounder at best
if you stay at 6 your ultimately be reaching for a player because the top 5 players in this draft the Browns do not need or alternately people don't think that position should be that high. the Browns can drop back out of the top 10 take war Mac and get a second round pick or a third and fourth round pick. moving back to select a guard you get a top 5 Scouts Inc player and more mid round picks. Jarvis Jones is the best 43 outside linebacker whereas the best 34 outside linebacker comes from Oregon In dion Jordan.and he is a late first rounder at best
It takes two to trade and I don't see any team wanting a player that bad in this years draft.
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So i guess you could say that the price to trade up with another team is going to be more expensive for the team trading up than in years past because of the new rookie salary cap.
if you stay at 6 your ultimately be reaching for a player because the top 5 players in this draft the Browns do not need or alternately people don't think that position should be that high. the Browns can drop back out of the top 10 take war Mac and get a second round pick or a third and fourth round pick. moving back to select a guard you get a top 5 Scouts Inc player and more mid round picks. Jarvis Jones is the best 43 outside linebacker whereas the best 34 outside linebacker comes from Oregon In dion Jordan.and he is a late first rounder at best
if you stay at 6 your ultimately be reaching for a player because the top 5 players in this draft the Browns do not need or alternately people don't think that position should be that high.
You are still thinking 3 years ago. With the NEW cba and rookie wage scale you are going to have less risk greater reward than in years past. I think this is what TCPO is trying to get through. In years past it was a real mother fucker to pick first overall because you were going to be shelling out huge $ and if the guy is mediocre you just set the franchise back several years. But where do you come up with our positions of need don't warrant picking that player in the top 5 or 10? Line backer, edge rusher? They go top 5-10 all day.
Jarvis Jones is the best 43 outside linebacker whereas the best 34 outside linebacker comes from Oregon In dion Jordan.and he is a late first rounder at best
Actually I have seen more people seeing JJ better suited at the 3-4 because of his lack of weight and more upright style of play. which in the 4-3 gets him blocked out of the play.
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if you stay at 6 your ultimately be reaching for a player because the top 5 players in this draft the Browns do not need or alternately people don't think that position should be that high.
You are still thinking 3 years ago. With the NEW cba and rookie wage scale you are going to have less risk greater reward than in years past. I think this is what TCPO is trying to get through. In years past it was a real mother fucker to pick first overall because you were going to be shelling out huge $ and if the guy is mediocre you just set the franchise back several years. But where do you come up with our positions of need don't warrant picking that player in the top 5 or 10? Line backer, edge rusher? They go top 5-10 all day.
Jarvis Jones is the best 43 outside linebacker whereas the best 34 outside linebacker comes from Oregon In dion Jordan.and he is a late first rounder at best
Actually I have seen more people seeing JJ better suited at the 3-4 because of his lack of weight and more upright style of play. which in the 4-3 gets him blocked out of the play.
I don't care how much it cost a swing and a miss in the first round is just that a swing and a miss. it's all opinion anyways. ..and neither players wrong history just tells me that picking a guard you probably would be able to afford him for close to a decade whereas you take the edge rusher in your only going to be able to afford him through his rookie contract if he's a stud. I've seen Jones is high is 1 on a lot of mock drafts I've seen him as low as 20 he's all over the place. every mock draft that I've looked at has war Mac as a top 10 player.You are still thinking 3 years ago. With the NEW cba and rookie wage scale you are going to have less risk greater reward than in years past. I think this is what TCPO is trying to get through. In years past it was a real mother fucker to pick first overall because you were going to be shelling out huge $ and if the guy is mediocre you just set the franchise back several years. But where do you come up with our positions of need don't warrant picking that player in the top 5 or 10? Line backer, edge rusher? They go top 5-10 all day.
Actually I have seen more people seeing JJ better suited at the 3-4 because of his lack of weight and more upright style of play. which in the 4-3 gets him blocked out of the play.
I agree that the reward could be much higher for Jones but the risk is going to be there for his whole career. and if he's a stud like everybody thinks he's not going to finish his rookie contract he's going to demand more probably sit out and will eventually leave like all the pass rushers that are on the market right now.
this draft class looks like the weakest first round I've ever seen I would rather hit than miss.
take a risky shot next year. there is way too much serviceable talent in the middle rounds this year.
"We are Americans. We don't quit doing something because it's wrong. We just keep doing the wrong thing till it turns out right." Browns maybe the most American Football team ever. -
I don't care how much it cost a swing and a miss in the first round is just that a swing and a miss. it's all opinion anyways. ..and neither players wrong history just tells me that picking a guard you probably would be able to afford him for close to a decade whereas you take the edge rusher in your only going to be able to afford him through his rookie contract if he's a stud. I've seen Jones is high is 1 on a lot of mock drafts I've seen him as low as 20 he's all over the place. every mock draft that I've looked at has war Mac as a top 10 player.You are still thinking 3 years ago. With the NEW cba and rookie wage scale you are going to have less risk greater reward than in years past. I think this is what TCPO is trying to get through. In years past it was a real mother fucker to pick first overall because you were going to be shelling out huge $ and if the guy is mediocre you just set the franchise back several years. But where do you come up with our positions of need don't warrant picking that player in the top 5 or 10? Line backer, edge rusher? They go top 5-10 all day.
Actually I have seen more people seeing JJ better suited at the 3-4 because of his lack of weight and more upright style of play. which in the 4-3 gets him blocked out of the play.
I agree that the reward could be much higher for Jones but the risk is going to be there for his whole career. and if he's a stud like everybody thinks he's not going to finish his rookie contract he's going to demand more probably sit out and will eventually leave like all the pass rushers that are on the market right now.
this draft class looks like the weakest first round I've ever seen I would rather hit than miss.
take a risky shot next year. there is way too much serviceable talent in the middle rounds this year.
I don't care how much it cost a swing and a miss in the first round is just that a swing and a miss. it's all opinion anyways. ..and neither players wrong history just tells me that picking a guard you probably would be able to afford him for close to a decade whereas you take the edge rusher in your only going to be able to afford him through his rookie contract if he's a stud. I've seen Jones is high is 1 on a lot of mock drafts I've seen him as low as 20 he's all over the place. every mock draft that I've looked at has war Mac as a top 10 player.
I agree that the reward could be much higher for Jones but the risk is going to be there for his whole career. and if he's a stud like everybody thinks he's not going to finish his rookie contract he's going to demand more probably sit out and will eventually leave like all the pass rushers that are on the market right now.
this draft class looks like the weakest first round I've ever seen I would rather hit than miss.
take a risky shot next year. there is way too much serviceable talent in the middle rounds this year.
I haven't seen a single mock from a reliable scout or analyst that projects Jones past 8.
And it is rare for a team to not resign their first round player past his rookie contract. There isn't a first round player available in FA that is coming off his rookie contract.
And your argument makes no sense, if this year's class is filled with serviceable talent into the later rounds, why would we not take a risk with our first pick?
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I don't care how much it cost a swing and a miss in the first round is just that a swing and a miss. it's all opinion anyways. ..and neither players wrong history just tells me that picking a guard you probably would be able to afford him for close to a decade whereas you take the edge rusher in your only going to be able to afford him through his rookie contract if he's a stud. I've seen Jones is high is 1 on a lot of mock drafts I've seen him as low as 20 he's all over the place. every mock draft that I've looked at has war Mac as a top 10 player.You are still thinking 3 years ago. With the NEW cba and rookie wage scale you are going to have less risk greater reward than in years past. I think this is what TCPO is trying to get through. In years past it was a real mother fucker to pick first overall because you were going to be shelling out huge $ and if the guy is mediocre you just set the franchise back several years. But where do you come up with our positions of need don't warrant picking that player in the top 5 or 10? Line backer, edge rusher? They go top 5-10 all day.
Actually I have seen more people seeing JJ better suited at the 3-4 because of his lack of weight and more upright style of play. which in the 4-3 gets him blocked out of the play.
I agree that the reward could be much higher for Jones but the risk is going to be there for his whole career. and if he's a stud like everybody thinks he's not going to finish his rookie contract he's going to demand more probably sit out and will eventually leave like all the pass rushers that are on the market right now.
this draft class looks like the weakest first round I've ever seen I would rather hit than miss.
take a risky shot next year. there is way too much serviceable talent in the middle rounds this year.
I don't care how much it cost a swing and a miss in the first round is just that a swing and a miss. it's all opinion anyways. ..
Wrong, a swing and a miss no longer cost you the farm anymore not sure why you don't understand that. Has sam Bradford lived up to all that $ How about Mr. Buttfumble top 5 pick safe to say he sucks yet?
and neither players wrong history just tells me that picking a guard you probably would be able to afford him for close to a decade
wow way to go out on a limb on the lowest paid position.
whereas you take the edge rusher in your only going to be able to afford him through his rookie contract if he's a stud.
I've seen Jones is high is 1 on a lot of mock drafts I've seen him as low as 20 he's all over the place. every mock draft that I've looked at has war Mac as a top 10 player.
Hey im not in love with JJ but I havent seen him at 20 so im calling bullshit.
I agree that the reward could be much higher for Jones but the risk is going to be there for his whole career. and if he's a stud like everybody thinks he's not going to finish his rookie contract he's going to demand more probably sit out and will eventually leave like all the pass rushers that are on the market right now.
I dont believe you can hold out on a rookie contract (new CBA rule)
this draft class looks like the weakest first round I've ever seen I would rather hit than miss.
take a risky shot next year. there is way too much serviceable talent in the middle rounds this year.
Ok so from what you are saying the 1st round is loaded with 8 out of ten talent. and the mid rounds are loaded with a ton of serviceable 5's. so you want to pass on a good player and load up on some ok guys? Why? You are assuming that all of the mid round guys that we select some how all turn into all pro's. Not saying it never happens but more often than not it don't
This whole warmac argument is meaningless until we get closer to the draft.
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I just looked out of curiosity to see when the last guard was taken in the top ten of the first rd. Now I did not include any supplemental picks from expansion teams.
I went back to the late 70s and found 3
1986 9th overall John Rienstra , steelers
1983 9th overall Bruce Mattews, oilers
1982 8th overall Mike Munchak, oilers
Go back a bit further and you have John Hannah, who I believe was drafted in Top 5 or 6. He may be considered the best of all time.
As I said earlier, I would not object to taking Warmack at #6....if the Browns really did a job of filling their defensive holes in FA. I don't know that they can do that though.
Go back a bit further and you have John Hannah, who I believe was drafted in Top 5 or 6. He may be considered the best of all time.
As I said earlier, I would not object to taking Warmack at #6....if the Browns really did a job of filling their defensive holes in FA. I don't know that they can do that though.
Never seen him play. No love from the HOF either? wonder why?
His numbers are close to Bruce's and he is in.
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Go back a bit further and you have John Hannah, who I believe was drafted in Top 5 or 6. He may be considered the best of all time.
As I said earlier, I would not object to taking Warmack at #6....if the Browns really did a job of filling their defensive holes in FA. I don't know that they can do that though.
Never seen him play. No love from the HOF either? wonder why?
His numbers are close to Bruce's and he is in.
Never seen him play. No love from the HOF either? wonder why?
His numbers are close to Bruce's and he is in.
John Hannah IS in the HOF..as are Bruce Mattews and Mike Munchak. Rienstra whom you mentioned is not.
The OG position has not been disregarded by the HOF. Besides Hannah, Munchak, Matthews other OGs in the HOF who had playing careers or some portion thereof post 1970 include Joe Delamelleure, Russ Grimm, Larry Little, Tom Mack, Gene Upshaw. From 1950-1970 OGs include Lou Creekmur, Gene Hickerson, Forrest Gregg, Stan Jones, Jim Parker, Billy Shaw.
Prior to 1950 a lot of offensive linemen were 2 way performers....and there are a number of names there.
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Never seen him play. No love from the HOF either? wonder why?
His numbers are close to Bruce's and he is in.
John Hannah IS in the HOF..as are Bruce Mattews and Mike Munchak. Rienstra whom you mentioned is not.
The OG position has not been disregarded by the HOF. Besides Hannah, Munchak, Matthews other OGs in the HOF who had playing careers or some portion thereof post 1970 include Joe Delamelleure, Russ Grimm, Larry Little, Tom Mack, Gene Upshaw. From 1950-1970 OGs include Lou Creekmur, Gene Hickerson, Forrest Gregg, Stan Jones, Jim Parker, Billy Shaw.
Prior to 1950 a lot of offensive linemen were 2 way performers....and there are a number of names there.
John Hannah IS in the HOF..as are Bruce Mattews and Mike Munchak. Rienstra whom you mentioned is not.
The OG position has not been disregarded by the HOF. Besides Hannah, Munchak, Matthews other OGs in the HOF who had playing careers or some portion thereof post 1970 include Joe Delamelleure, Russ Grimm, Larry Little, Tom Mack, Gene Upshaw. From 1950-1970 OGs include Lou Creekmur, Gene Hickerson, Forrest Gregg, Stan Jones, Jim Parker, Billy Shaw.
Prior to 1950 a lot of offensive linemen were 2 way performers....and there are a number of names there.
Huh? Well ill take your word for it the site i looked at only listed Matthews.
So yeah wikipedia blows, guess i was being lazy
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Warmack is as likely to be picked by Cleveland as Geno Smith. Jonathan Cooper of UNC is actually rated higher now than Warmack.
I think the Browns take Ansah and sign two of Avril/Kruger/Ellerbe in FA. The OLB rotation will be Sheard/Kruger starting, Avril/Ansah rotating in.
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